“Senate Republicans moved Monday afternoon to prevent the FCC’s proposed rules on net neutrality with an amendment to the Interior Appropriations bill that would tie up funding at the agency for new regulatory mandates. Observers said, however, that the move was unlikely to be approved in the Democrat-majority Congress,” Cecilia Kang reports for The Washington Post.
Kang reports, “Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Texas), ranking member of Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee, said in a release: ‘We must tread lightly when it comes to new regulations. Where there have been a handful of questionable actions in the past on the part of a few companies, the Commission and the marketplace have responded swiftly. The case has simply not been made for what amounts to a significant regulatory intervention into a vibrant marketplace. These new regulatory mandates and restrictions could stifle investment incentives,’ she said.”
“Senators John Ensign (R-Nev.), Sam Brownback (R-Kansas), David Vitter (R-La.), Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) and John Thune (R-S.D. co-sponsored the amendment,” Kang reports. “The two Republican commissioners at the five-member FCC issued a joint statement in response to FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski’s announcement, expressed concern that conclusions have been prematurely drawn about how consumers and businesses are being affected by Web policies. ‘We are concerned that both factual and legal conclusions may have been drawn before the process has begun,’ said Commissioners Robert McDowell and Merideth Baker. ‘We do not believe that the Commission should adopt regulations based merely on anecdotes, or in an effort to alleviate the political pressures of the day, if the facts do not clearly demonstrate that a problem needs to be remedied.'”
Kang reports, “Some wireless providers have balked at the proposal, with AT&T saying it does not agree that the rules should apply to its giant national wireless network because of capacity constraints. Genachowski said in his speech that the rules would apply to all platforms – which would include wireless – but that such questions would be part of a process that will begin late October to come up with new rules. If approved, final rules could be drawn next spring.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: As we said back in August 2006: “We don’t presume to know the best way to get there, but we support the concept of “Net Neutrality” especially as it pertains to preventing the idea of ISP’s blocking or otherwise impeding sites that don’t pay the ISP to ensure equal access. That said, we usually prefer the government to be hands-off wherever possible, Laissez-faire, except in cases where the free market obviously cannot adequately self-regulate (antitrust, for example). Regulations are static and the marketplace is fluid, so such regulation can often have unintended, unforeseen results down the road. We sincerely hope that there are enough forces in place and/or that the balances adjust in such a manner as to keep the ‘Net as neutral as it is today.”
That we have the same Take over three years later should be telling. Government regulations are not a panacea, neither are the lack thereof. It’s all about striking a proper balance where innovation can thrive while abuses are prevented.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “iWill” for the heads up.]
I dislike all politicians sometimes.
Libs are for this. Therefore, I’m against it. Piss on em!
Such an intelligent response, C. I’d love to see how you react when years from now your ISP blocks access to MDN because they didn’t pay the access tax that year.
“Libs are for this. Therefore, I’m against it. Piss on em!”
And there you have insight into the feeble mind of the wingnut republican.
Though I’m by no means politically ignorant, I to this day honestly cannot understand the conservative phobia regarding the government. Seriously.
It would be a different story if the US government got to be as it were through some sort of military coup, but our government is a representative democracy; i.e. WE are the government. Our government is only as good as the people who put it there. Our politicians aren’t appointed; WE put them there. When they don’t do what WE like or is in our best interest, it’s up to US to get them out of office. Whether some of US like it or not, WE (at least the majority of US) voted for the current POTUS, just like WE voted for the guy before him – twice. I’m all for political debate and disagreement, but if you honestly don’t like the current situation, use your voice and your vote at the next election. However, if “your side” loses the debate, don’t whine like a fourth-grade girl who lost her Barbie doll. MAN UP and do something constructive!!
As to the issue of net neutrality: I’m all for some form of government regs, as long as it doesn’t interfere with the flow of commerce or stifles competition.
AdmiralX,
Typical post-1984 Dem/Lib. Inventing “problems” that legislation needs to “solve.”
MDN isn’t required to pay an access tax. They didn’t have to three years ago. They don’t have to today. And they likely never will (unless gov’t mucks things up enough).
Liberalism used to mean a much different thing. When did Libs come to love gov’t so much?
The Democrats have become the party of inventing “problems,” so they can come up with legislation to “solve” said fantasies in ways that benefit themselves and their constituents.
—
The hands off “Laissez-faire” approach just fscked up the worlds financial systems.
Hands off means the rich get richer.
gzero,
You obviously need to take a closer look at the people “we’ve” put in government.
Start with the speaker of the house, ie. crazy nancy.
Total inaction beats the bullshit these fools concoct every time.
Majority of voters, not of the US.
‘your side’? Loses what debate? Net neutrality? Global warming? white background in itunes?
Honestly, I think all politicians suck.
This story is good for about 100 comments and a whole lot of pop up revenue.
John,
Can you back up your idiotically simplistic statement with conclusive proof?
Over-regulation can kill things even more easily.
Like MDN said, we need balance, not overkill legislation.
I though banks making loans to people that couldn’t pay them back helped wreck the financial market?
“Government regulations are not a panacea, neither are the lack thereof. It’s all about striking a proper balance where innovation can thrive while abuses are prevented.”
Unfortunately, we have mostly incompetents currently in office who cannot or will not strive for proper balance.
@Superior Being
“Liberalism used to mean a much different thing. When did Libs come to love gov’t so much?”
When they finally figured out that they could profit handsomely from it.
@MeGame,
“I dislike all politicians sometimes.”
I dislike all politicians …. all the time. See, no waffling here.
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en
Banks idiotic leverage got them into trouble. If they had been better regulated they would not have over extended themselves.
Fractional reserve banking was thought up by bankers to suit bankers.
Basic USA history. Heard of the great depression?
Q: When did Libs come to love gov’t so much?
A: When they finally figured out that they could profit handsomely from it.
Ain’t that the God’s honest truth (if I do say so myself)!
p.s. The two tier internet proposed by the wireless industry will hurt devices like the iPhone most. I am surprised that so many mac users are against keeping a level playing field for all. The internet should remain open. Not charged according to what device you use to connect to it or what content type you consume.
John,
Read this if you can:
The 2008 financial collapse originated with a political effort to expand mortgage lending to consumers who could not meet normal credit-worthiness standards. What was later to be called the subprime problem began as an affordable home effort that shoved aside market-based constraints. The impetus came with congressional strengthening of the Community Reinvestment Act, the Federal Housing Administration’s loosening of down-payment standards, and with pressure exerted on mortgage lenders by the Department of Housing and Urban Development to lend to the unqualified. As might be expected, the most politically responsive mortgage lenders were the two government enterprises, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, which had been organized politically to expand U.S. homeownership opportunities.
Source: http://tinyurl.com/stop-big-government
Bad debt. (sub-prime mortage defaults), creates losses for lenders.
Over-leverageing (lending way more money than you actually have) brings down the entire banking industry when prices go down.
They entire banking industry had its hand in the till. Thiefs!
Thats what Laissez-faire gets you.
Mark, read the link Superior Being posted.
And, it’s “thieves,” you idiot.
2010 first, then 2012.
Superior being: “originate” does noe equal “cause”. Debts go bad all the time. It was what the banks did to hid risk and basically lie that caused the system to collapse.
Left to their own devices they stole our money.
OK, so basically we have a load of telco and banking industry shills on MDN. Just like in Congress and the Senate.
This is a good thing.
Bravo senators! Way to look out for the little guy by letting the market’s super benevolent corporations decide! Hey MAC lemmings, don’t be so gullible to think ISPs are all about profits and defending their turf by rigging access to preferred sites. They simply want to provide a service at a fair price for you the customer without silly government regulations screwing things up. Remember what they almost did it to Microsoft, an American treasure.
The market works best when there are no rules. It’s called survival of the fittest and sissy, itty-bitty market share MAC would be the first one to go. You can have my throttled and manipulated internet connection when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!
Your potential. Our passion.™
Heres a link on banking for you:
Money Masters
John,
It’s because of fools like you that we have a half-term freshman senator / “community organizer” in the White House and in way, way over his head.
– Ohioan praying for a real Conservative candidate in 2012.
Rethugnicans acting as corporate shills? This is news?
If a Rethugnican was acting on behalf of the public or opposing the expansion of corporate power it would be news.
Before the ‘free market’ zombies attack hear me out.
The telcos run their lines across your property WITHOUT your permission, WITHOUT compensation to you under the eminent domain power granted them by the government and then oppose any effort to in any way regulate them. If they want a truly free market, start paying me for the right to run your damn cables on my land. The permission to run lines without your consent or compensation amounts to a subsidy worth tens of billions of dollars.
I do not oppose a free market- I oppose crony capitalism. That is largely what we have in the US.
@John: That wasn’t laissez-faire, though. The sub-prime crisis, and over-leveraged lenders were the opposite of laissez-faire. They were the result of focused government intervention and bad policy.
@gzero: “As to the issue of net neutrality: I’m all for some form of government regs, as long as it doesn’t interfere with the flow of commerce or stifles competition.”
And that’s what gets us into trouble, starting with the notion that governmen regulation is itself a good thing. Your first post reveals your ignorance of the true American heritage. Go back and read how we got where we were in the 18th century. This country was founded on a mistrust of government power. Forget politicians; the Founders and the public know that individuals, even well-intended ones, cannot be trusted. So, they created a framework of institutions intended to hobble the over-aggregation of government power itself. The mistrust of government power, not merely individual politicians, is in the American DNA. Thank goodness.
The opposition party is at it again.
American got where it was by killing the natives and anyone else who got in its way. And above all by using oil. When the oil eventually runs out so will the USA unless it does something intellingent besides brute force, money talks, soon.
@John: You said: “Superior being: “originate” does noe equal “cause”. Debts go bad all the time. It was what the banks did to hid risk and basically lie that caused the system to collapse.
Left to their own devices they stole our money.”
And thus the limp mind of the liberal is exposed. Seriously? Are you kidding? Actually, “originate” means precisely that. it is why smart people seek out “root causes” for problems.
@John: You wrote: “American got where it was by killing the natives and anyone else who got in its way. And above all by using oil. When the oil eventually runs out so will the USA unless it does something intellingent besides brute force, money talks, soon.”
And thus your patheticism is truly revealed. You are an America-hater. Fine.
The previous administration expanded the federal deficit to historical levels, sidestepped the constitution with detention without trial and created an entirely new arm of the govt the singular job of which is to spy on US citizens.
That Republican supporters still pretend that the Republican party is the party of smaller government is unabashed stupidity and hypocrisy that boggles the mind.
Superior Being’s link is from the Professor of Economics Emeritus, Clemson University and Distinguished Adjunct Professor of Economics, Mercatus Center at George Mason University.
John’s link is from a DVD peddler whose site looks like it was made on a Gateway PC in 1996.
Republicans serving their masters, Big *insert description of industrial branch here*?
In other news, sun rises again this morning, Windows sucks, and Ballmer sweats like a pig while sticking his tongue out and jumping around screaming “developers developers developers developers!”
His Shadow,
We haven’t had a real conservative in the Oval Office since Reagan.
None of the nominees were real conservatives, either.
And, Obama has already far outspent Bush.
We booted Bush in part because he spent too much. So, the solution is to spend 50 times as much?
Nope. 2010 is when we start getting back to fiscal sanity.
Voter, let’s hope so! As a conservative, I am appalled by some of the actions of the R party, but I am terrified by Obamination. We need leaders who stand for fiscal and governmental conservatism.
@Julia: Thanks for calling that out. John is clearly a small-minded disciple of the Michael Moore School of Uncritical Thinking.
MDN should stick to what they do best: making snarky, childish, statements about anyone who dares to compete with Apple.
As to an intelligent argument against deregulation: the credit default swap market was at the core of the financial crisis, and it was totally unregulated. Global demand for securities based on subprime bonds created the housing bubble because: 1) These bonds were highly rated by unregulated, free-market, ratings agencies, and 2) People were able to cheaply purchase credit default swaps that were supposed to be insurance policies if these securities defaulted. The trouble is the unit of AIG that was writing tens of billions of these things had less than 3 million dollars in their account to pay out should one of them actually default.
Voter: by voting in the same Republicans who had no trouble with Bush’s spending? I hope you choose third party instead, then.
@cogitoergomac
Disagreement for or observation of acts committed by our government does not by any means make John “an American-hater.” Dissent is a right we have as Americans. I’ve lived in several countries that dissent would land you in jail regardless of the truth in your statements. Consider the possibility that those of us who don’t turn a blind eye to outrageous actions by any sitting president actually love our country and dislike their actions.
A related aside – how exactly did all the no bid contracts handed to Halliburton and it’s subsidiaries prove love of our country? What about the mishandling and disappearance of untold billions of dollars in Iraq?
And they wonder why they lost there votes and a Democratic President is now in office.
Net Neutrality is the right thing to do before the internet turns useless because of greed and abuse. Comcast is one of the biggest violators of this! They’re supposed to be internet providers, instead they’re internet dictators, turning on and off your connection at there whim for whatever reason!
I just love how the right complains about spending, but totally ignores the financial mess inherited from the previous administration. Things are beginning to turn around since the current administration followed the advice of the majority of economists. I cannot imagine where we would be if the ‘do nothing’ GOP was running the show.
Regarding Republican against Net Neutrality…. Nothing new, the GOP usually sides with big business.
Let’s not forget that the reason Obama has spent so much money, is because the blatant mismanagement of the country, at home and abroad, at the hands of the conservative republicans drove our country into financial chaos… You people have such short term memory it does indeed boggle the mind.
@ Hannah,
“Ohioan praying for a real Conservative candidate in 2012.”
Well, maybe God will hear your pleas and arrange for someone more inline with your thinking to become a Presidential candidate. How about that awesome hunk of conservatism Joe Wilson from South Carolina?
“In 2003, Wilson voted for the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act, including its Section 1011 authorizing $250,000 annually of taxpayer money to reimburse hospitals for treatment of illegal immigrants. In 2009, Wilson changed to his current position opposing public funds for healthcare of illegal immigrants.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Wilson_(U.S._politician)
Of course, he’s no G.W. Bush, but who could even come close to that man’s performance. And just think, if elected, he might start flying the Confederate flag over the White House.
Doesn’t the thought make you feel all warm and conservatee inside? Yeehaaaaw!
@Superior Being
“Liberalism used to mean a much different thing. When did Libs come to love gov’t so much?”
My theory for at least part of this change (because you are right) is that members of both the old Socialist and Communist Parties in America finally grasped that they couldn’t win elections as 3rd party candidates. They moved into the Democratic Party and have since tilted it radically left. I used to be a Dem, and I say that I didn’t leave the Party, it left me.
“Conservatives” continually prove themselves to be anything but conservative… “Liberals” have proven themselves to not think liberally…
People who are bind themselves to ideology will find themselves just that… bound.
Intelligent governance is flexible and meets the needs of the people.
Stop arguing from positions of stupidity. No one wins.
without net neutrality, huge investments in internet infrastructure could be blocked overnight. The open marketplace could go. ebay could be turned off or everyone you sell on ebay could be taxed by your local cable company. Is $140 a month not enough for time warner to bribe these rebpublican Sh*T F**ks. do they really need more of my damned money. let’s roll these greedy on the take criminals out of office and into the obscurity.
“We booted Bush in part because he spent too much.”
Uh, no, he left because of the 2-term limit in the Constitution. He couldn’t run again, legally.
@spark,
You are really dillusional. The political spectrum has moved right, not left. Reagan’s conservatism is today’s liberalism. Go back and look at the programs Reagan supported 25 to 30 years ago. Take his name out and insert President A. The GOP today would label him a flaming liberal today.
@Marko
Marko is correct, and I will now follow your posts with blind admiration.
This is America and the Dems are in power because the people voted them in. All you America-hating, unpatriotic Republicans can either get in line or move to another country!
The Republican lickspittle are simply obeying their corporate masters. Not that the democrats are far behind. Our government operates via a system of open bribery commonly known as campaign contributions. The exremely foolish, ignorant, or scared,are led around by the nose by Beck et al. to protest against their own good.
Dear Superior Bean
Followed your link, no surprise George Mason U. They did have a final 4 Team a few years ago. Good for them. As to pinning the financial problem back to the Democrats pushing for expanded mortgage lending, you can certainly throw that in the mix. Please don’t forget to layer in all the unregulated mortgage brokers who pushed, sold and lied to people about the mortgages they were representing. These are the same unregulated people telling folks on the financial edge they can help them sort their debt problems when they cannot.
However, the better example of the lack of regulation is AIG FP which entered into billions of dollars of derivative contracts based in the value of the credit worthiness on the underlying company or index. They were an unregulated subsidiary of an insurance company that was putting enormous amounts of money at risk with NO oversight. Not sure the Superior Bean mind was aware of this but it the case.
Wow.
The level of intellectual treatise here is astonishingly low. You can get better debate on a school playground. Liberals hate conservatives, conservatives despise liberals. Why? You both claim to ‘love America,’ but apparently nobody in it who opposes your views. And the ridiculous names you assign to people who are targeted by your opinion-leaders… if this is the path the country has decided to take, then the country is completely doomed to decay and self-ruination. Remember a few years back when President Bush took the country into a very divisive war, and the Republicans were so fond of saying ‘you’re either with us or against us?’ Now President Obama is making divisive decisions, and I’m still hearing the same rhetoric from the right. He’s a socialist? Sure he is, and President Bush was an autocrat. It’s all a point of view, and too often it is the point of view of someone on television. Yes, I think Fox is very guilty of pushing their television hosts’ ideologies on the public. I know they’re not the only channel doing it, though they are probably more successful in charging their political base to bouts of anger and righteous fury that would be indefensible and embarrassing during, say, the Reagan years.
I’d stopped scrolling down to see the Mac Daily News comments some time ago, mainly because it seemed like a bunch of Windows-bashing noise that—although I agreed with much of it—was useless. When I checked the Net Neutrality comments on a whim yesterday, I was dismayed to see such a schismatic set of tracts. For some reason, I expected better of Mac users, if only because data indicates Mac users tend to be well-educated. If you really think any of your anger is doing America any good at this juncture, you’re missing an awful lot. I implore each of you to reach for something more useful than pre-programmed responses of insults and ‘facts’ laid down in Sermons on the Mount from people who are paid to stir up dissent and indignation. But do it without me; I’m finished with the comments on Mac Daily News.
The dems will be voted out sass a ass. Most people that voted for Maobama now know they have been lied to and taken for fools. We are mad as hell and will vote the dems out.
Liberals in the US government forced the banks to make these suicidal loans that brought down the economy. Maobama is doing everything he can to keep it down and make it worse. You libs are greatly mistaken if you believe that you have the power and support that you think you have. The majority of the US is center right. You freaks are out of here in the next 2 elections.
I really don’t understand why Kay Bailey Hutchinson is fighting against “net neutrality” when she’s running for governor of Texas. Oh, wait, AT&T;is based in San Antonio, TX. I wonder how much money she’s gotten from AT&T;and other Telco’s/ISP (TimeWarner).
It’s really sad that Telco’s and major ISPs would rather spend money on lobbying and padding the election coffers of elected officials than in investing in infrastructure that benefit the consumer.
As might be expected, the most politically responsive mortgage lenders were the two government enterprises, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae…
I wasn’t going to post anything on the Net Neutrality topic because of how fast it devolved into ugly namecalling yesterday, but I wanted to clarify this statement in an earlier post. People could get the mistaken idea that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac always were government run entities, which they were not.
They were established as government sponsored enterprises but were operating as private companies until the feds placed them into a government conservatorship during the financial collapse of September 2008.
@No Alabama, Either
You’re right. It’s as if everyone gets their “talking points” emailed to them each morning, along with the requisite names to call people they disagree with. Funny, but you don’t see this level of anger on other Mac-oriented Web sites. I wonder why it’s concentrated here?
Waggoner
Buddy, I was not lied to. He said he would represent a change from Bush and he has though not so much in the beginning as he carried on the same financial program to stabilize our country’s economy. You may not like it but you and yours lost the election. Do you have respect for that? Please don’t think you are converting anyone with your language, you are reaffirming people’s decisions. Calling Obama Mao or putting a Hitler mustache on him doesn’t take the discussion anywhere.
@ No Alabama, Either,
I sure can’t fault you for your reaction. It can be very disheartening reading the comments here. I’ve tried to keep my mouth shut, but it seems like something always gets me going again. Good luck to you.
@ Islandgirl,
I would say that the level of vitriol here is so high because it can be. Other web sites simply wont tolerate it, which isn’t such a bad thing. But it does make MDN rather unique, and I’m sure they realize the fact. We keep coming back, at least until we get burned or burned out.
Right on Waggoner. Everyone I know feels the exact same way. Maobama is a fraud and liar. Every time he opens his mouth he lies. His Maobamacare is just a farce to grab control of the 100s of billions of dollars that the insurance company must keep in reserves. He and his party could care less about the actual population. All of these drones that post here are completely clueless and not representative of what is happening in reaction to all of this “hope and change” going on in our country. Can’t wait to watch the door slam on their asses on the way voted out!
@Sir Gill Bates
We keep coming back, at least until we get burned or burned out.
I’m almost there. I learned a lot about Apple and Mac history from this site after I switched to Mac in early 2007. Now, much of what’s offered just seems…mean spirited. I wonder if that’s partly why ChrissyOne became less active at posting. There sure aren’t many female opinions on this site.
Typical lib-commie-drone looking to silence the opposition. The party of openness can’t tolerate different and opposing views.
hmm, chrissyone, typical liberal-commie-US hating-drone. I sure don’t miss her.
@ Islandgirl,
Yeah, ChrissyOne was always a lot of fun, but she took some major crap from some of the Neanderthals here. I don’t know about there not being many female opinions here since a lot of women seem to follow along the same political lines, although perhaps they don’t state their opinions quite so crudely.
Glad to hear about your switch to Mac and hope you are enjoying it. Maybe you should visit sites like MacWorld and avoid most of this foolishness. I probably should also.
You know, it’s not hard to understand how the Sturmabteilung and their leader came into power back in the day. There seem to be quite a few posters here who would fit right into a brown shirt.
I’m trying to stay neutral here, but I gotta be honest, I think some people may have taken Supreme Being’s quoted explanation of the financial collapse the wrong way. From reading these comments, it seems that many of you took that to mean that government involvement caused the financial collapse. That is true, but the quote says that the government deregulated and loosened many restrictions, which is the real cause of the collapse. Deregulation leads to Laissez-faire, which is only good in markets where there is a fiscal motivation for companies to self-regulate. That is not the case with the banking industry, and it is currently not the case with the telcos. I’m not for a complete government takeover of anything, but a little regulation will help in this case.
As I said yesterday:
“Who is going to monitor and enforce this policy? And how? What is the penalty for non-compliance? What good is a policy that you can’t enforce effectively?”
Do we really need another wasteful, useless government bureaucracy? This draconian regulation will have lots of “unintended consequences” and will do absolutely nothing to solve the supposed problem.
Who’s watching the watchers?
I’m a proud “lib,” in fact- I’d vote for Karl Marx (not Josef Stalin) over Sarah Palin!
I need this site for my sanity- don’t make me boycott it because of the ignorant rightwing bias more and more presented.
“LIbs” – Obama, Clinton et. al are very progressive regarding technology- it’s the hicks and Bushes who fear “the internets” and the “YouTubes.”
“I need this site for my sanity …”
Now that’s a scary comment!
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We’ve only spent 4% of the must pass right now! porkulus package. The economy is in the toilet. Unemployment (real) is around 20% or higher. The porkulus money is going to be used during the 2010 and 2012 election years to try to get these criminals back in office. We are noticing these actions Maobama.
wrong. Barney’s Frank, Chris Dodd, Maobama, caused this happen by forcing banks to loan to people who should never have been loaned money. They forced this on the free market with constant threats of congressional subpoenas. Don’t try to rewrite history commie boy.
This site should change it’s name to ConservativeDailyNews, what’s wrong with u people, it’s cool big Corps to manipulate legislation for their gain, but when gov wants to help the little guy u are against it because the NEW admin is actually trying to help the majority, which is what gov is meant to do, simply ridiculous, go back to watching Fox News now
You really believe that the gov wants to help the little guy???? You are out of your mind. They are in it to steal private property and gain as much power and money for themselves as possible. Why do you idiots think corporations are so evil. They are made up of all of the employees and shareholders to provide goods and services to make people’s lives better. The exact opposite of the government. Limit government to only the bare bones basics. Keep you busy bodies the hell out of my life and bank account. Maobamacare is just a way to rob the hundreds of millions of $ that the insurance companies must keep in reserve. The lib-coms know that Maobamacare would be a massive failure but could care less. They want the money and power.
Money Stealing Traitors
Enough said.
MDN: “That said, we usually prefer the government to be hands-off wherever possible, Laissez-faire, except in cases where the free market obviously cannot adequately self-regulate (antitrust, for example).”
Or the savings and loan scandal of the 80’s, the Enron scandal of 2000, the current mortgage debacle. Unfettered capitalism is NOT good for America, or its tax payers.
Zeke those instances pail in comparison to what the government wants to do to us now. The majority of Americans rightly distrust the government much more than the free market. Look at the lunatics in charge right now!
Maobama is abandoning our troops in Afghanistan. What up with DAT????
Not a surprise from the party of “No”. Less of a surprise from the Righty-Tighties. More and more of the country is against you and tired of your non-sense. You Righty-Tighties are certifiable nuts.
@Sir Gill Bates
You know, I recently read a disturbing article about the results of civics tests given to high school students in Oklahoma. Only one in four could correctly name the first president of the United States! I can only imagine what they would have answered if asked to list the protections guaranteed by the First Amendment.
That’s really frightening because democracy depends on an educated population. You can’t be a good citizen if all you can do is scream “commie” and other mindless insults, then turn on the TV and lap up the “hate speech of the day.”
That kind of ignorance is the real danger.
As for quality of life, I have enjoyed my half-dozen visits to various European countries, but the idea of not being allowed the means of personal self-defense in my own home, of being required to present my papers to check in to a hotel, of being told how many hours a week I am allowed to work, of working more months of the year for the state than for myself and my family, and all the other marks of slavery you all accept as natural – no, that’s not for me or for most Americans.
I quote Ben Franklin….
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!”
Every day I am grateful America’s founding fathers put in place a system designed to stop the Obama’s of the world from screwing things up.
It’s the American system. God bless it.
you commie-libs have unfortunately taken over the US public school system and have been systematically trying to brainwash our children over to your commie-cult way of thinking. it takes them a dozen or so years of working in the real world to figure out what you have tried to do them and how bad you libs are. power is all that you are after and destroying the constitution. you want tyranny and we won’t let you get your way.
@ Islandgirl,
So true. It seems to me that many of the so called educators in this country are more concerned with building fancy new schools and their own little empires. Knowledge and reason are taking a back seat to their own gain. And most of the parents haven’t a clue.
The majority of American people do not believe that global warming is man made and therefore will not permit our Congress to pass what amounts to a huge tax increase that will benefit the government and some industrialists. For the record, we do believe the earth is warming but from natural causes and we would all be better off figuring out how to adapt and live rather than trying to change the natural cycles of the earth.
So many of our educators are liberal trolls trying to brainwash the young and impressionable. I know a lot of conservatives that are going into teaching to put a stop to this.
Paterson blames weak Obama record for friction
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0909/Paterson_blames_weak_Obama_record_for_friction.html
GREAT ECONOMICS AND FINANCE LESSON………
This is probably the 5 best sentences you’ll ever read. This is one paragraph that should be in every book in every school room in every city in every state in our great Union . Our educators should make a lesson plan on this one statement and beat these words into every head in every class in every state in these United States of America .
Profound short paragraph
“You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”*
* Adrian Rogers, 1931*
@ Not a European,
I have to admit that I don’t understand their attitude towards self-defense. I work with a guy who vacationed in England, and the police saw his pocket knife and almost arrested him. They took his knife and gave him a load of crap. Then again, we have that kind of scared-of-everything thinking here in the U.S. also.
Thank goodness for the 2nd Amendment and the NRA.
@gzero
I never voted for a POTUS in my life and I’m not about to start now! But I have voted in all national elections.
MW: down, as in DWA (Down With Acronyms).
@ Adrian,
“You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”
Then why do people want stock splits?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/22/massachusetts-senate-approves-kennedy-successor/?test=latestnewscomments
disgusting abuse of power. this has switched back and forth for the dems to serve their political purposes. why do you massholes vote for these nuts.
Is that really Sir Bill Gates talking???? Can’t be.
Obama has no experience being a leader of anything. Our last presidents have been governors of states or veterans of the Senate. They knew how America works and how to get along with political opponents. Obama spent a few ineffective months in the Senate and that’s all.. He’s never had to work with any kind of political opposition and doesn’t understand why he can’t have everything his own way, like Hugo Chavez or that little thug from Iran. He doesn’t understand that by ignoring opposing viewpoints he strengthens the position of his adversaries. True leadership is all about getting along with the other side. Otherwise, the only way Obama can get everything he wants is by arresting several thousand rightwing leaders and putting them behind barbed wire, like the Castro brothers commonly do in Cuba. Then shut down Fox news and get rid of talk radio. Give long prison sentences to a few influential climate-deniers to stifle the rest of that lot. Then Obama can alter the constitution so he can serve as president-for-life. I imagine that most liberal poster hear may find this to be not altogether a bad thing. Am I right?
@ Greg,
I have always been a proponent of the 2nd Amendment. I don’t think that should preclude someone from being for some of the social issues. I vote Independent, although I guess it’s probably hard to tell that from some of my posts.
By the way, I use to be a registered Republican, but never a Democrat. I don’t get all of my beliefs from one basket.
That’s good to hear. So there is some hope for you yet.
As soon as you self identify as a conservative you make it clear that you are not for intelligent discussion. If republicans said the world is flat, you would believe it and tell those wacky scientist to piss off. Why are you against regulation? Are you against the FDA, USDA, SEC, CDC, FBI….. It would be nice if we could trust business to self regulate, but the prove daily that they will prey on the weak every day. A conservative is someone who thinks that they are the reason for all good in the world. They are actually responsible for a great deal of the misery amd death in this world, hiding behind their pro life charade. If you don’t think these companies will screw you, I have some swamp land in FL to show you.
@ Sir Bill Gates,
And most of the parents haven’t a clue.
Well, that’s the other problem. If kids aren’t getting civics at school, they have to get it at home, and that doesn’t appear to be happening either.
@the gutless winger types who don’t have the b*lls to register their names,
I know several teachers who genuinely love their profession and strive to educate their students so they can graduate with the the ability to read and reason. They tell me it’s an uphill battle because of kids’ short attention spans and because there’s often no support from parents.
I’m sure it would be easier to simply sit children down in front of a TV and brainwash them into the unthinking nasties who spray “commie-lib” crap throughout this site, but these teachers actually want to make a difference in the lives of their kids. So they keep trying.
Why do the GOP, right wingers and conservatives hate America so much?
@ Islandgirl,
I didn’t mean my comment as a dig against teachers, but the administrators and hierarchy who rule our educational system. Some of the superintendents in my area are paid like the CEOs of mega-corporations, and think they are royalty.
Tracking Your Taxes: Sending Billions in Aid to Despots and Wealthy Nations
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/22/tracking-taxes-sending-billions-aid-despots-wealthy-nations/
Wow. Just wow. The wingnuts’ “logic” is stupendous. Boggles the mind actually.
That’s for the entertainment Hannah, Superior Being, Spark, and crew. You’re almost as much fun as reading the Onion. You all should seriously publish this stuff — it’s the best satirical comedy I’ve seen in quite a while! Have you thought of getting ‘Larry the Cable Guy’ on board, too?
@ Islandgirl and Sir Gill Bates,
Also a major problem with our current education is Bush’s “No Child Goes Untested” Act that attempts to measure learning by single sitting tests. The second major problem is that education majors are required to spend way more time learning educationese, rather than content. How can they teach science, math, writing, etc., if they only know the basics with no depth? Even in — gasp! — communist China they require more content knowledge in teacher training than we do by an order of magnitude.
Of course, it’s not that simple either. Wingnut parents cause a huge set of problems. Near Wilmington, NC, the wingnut parents elected some like-minded to the school board. They actually took razor blades and sliced out every page in the health class textbook that mentioned sex. And how often does Kansas (and Texas) waffle on substituting creationism, aka “Intelligent Design,” for evolution?
Hopefully, there are still young minds that haven’t snapped shut who can bring about change. I’ve seen a few in college classes. I can only hope there are enough.
@ Hm…,
While I agree it can be detrimental at times to have parents involved in the curricula, I think it’s their fundamental right to have a say in their own children’s education.
As for substituting creationism for evolution, from some of the things I’ve seen, both thoughts seem to be based on faith.
All you rabid wingnut Mac fans worship Steve Jobs and Apple, but he’s a liberal and Apple’s a politically liberal company (with former Democratic VP Al Gore on the board). How do you reconcile that cognitive dissonance?
you’re obviously talking about the left wing nuts.
The Little Red Hen called all of her Democrat neighbors together and said, ‘If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?’
‘Not I,’ said the cow.
‘Not I,’ said the duck.
‘Not I,’ said the pig.
‘Not I,’ said the goose.
‘Then I will do it by myself,’ said the little red hen, and so she did. The wheat grew very tall and ripened into golden grain.
‘Who will help me reap my wheat?’ asked the little red hen.
‘Not I,’ said the duck..
‘Out of my classification,’ said the pig.
‘I’d lose my seniority,’ said the cow.
‘I’d lose my unemployment compensation,’ said the goose.
‘Then I will do it by myself,’ s aid the little red hen, and so she did.
At last it came time to bake the bread.
‘Who will help me bake the bread?’ asked the little red hen.
‘That would be overtime for me,’ said the cow.
‘I’d lose my welfare benefits,’ said the duck.
‘I’m a dropout and never learned how,’ said the pig.
‘If I’m to be the only helper, that’s discrimination,’ said the goose.
‘Then I will do it by myself,’ said the little red hen.
She baked five loaves and held them up for all of her neighbors to see. They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, ‘No, I shall eat all five loaves.’
‘Excess profits!’ cried the cow. (Nancy Pelosi)
‘Capitalist leech!’ screamed the duck. (Barbara Boxer)
‘I demand equal rights!’ yelled the goose. (Jesse Jackson)
The pig just grunted in disdain. (Ted Kennedy)
And they all painted ‘Unfair!’ picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities.
Then the farmer (Obama) came. He said to the little red hen,
‘You mustnot be so greedy.’
‘But I earned the bread,’ said the little red hen.
‘Exactly,’ said Barack the farmer. ‘That is what makes our free enterprise system so wonderful. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide the fruits of their labor with those who are lazy and idle.’
And they all lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, ‘I am grateful, for now I truly understand.’
But her neighbors became quite disappointed in her. She never again baked bread because she joined the ‘party’ and got her bread free. And all the Democrats smiled. ‘Fairness’ had been established.
Individual initiative had died, but nobody noticed; perhaps no one cared…so long as there was free bread that ‘the rich’ were paying for.
EPILOGUE
Bill Clinton is getting $12 million for his memoirs.
Hillary got $8 million for hers.
That’s $20 million for the memories from two people, who for eight years, repeatedly testified, under oath, that they couldn’t remember anything.
IS THIS A GREAT BARNYARD OR WHAT?
http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/15523565/1322781786/name/TeaPartyCommercial.wmv
@ Barnyard
You copy and paste the same laughable story in pretty much every MDN political thread. How about living in reality instead of barnyard fairy tales?
the barnyard story rings true more than every. every one in my office loved it and were very glad he posted it. go to hell.
@@rob the little commie
Too bad the barnyard tale is completely divorced from reality. Not unlike you and your office, I’m sure.
Actually the barnyard tale perfectly hits the nail on the head. What disgusting reality do you live in Rob? You want to sit back leach off of other people’s hard work you a hole.
No dissent or else!!!!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/23/mcconnell-blasts-government-gag-order-private-health-care-provider/
McConnell Blasts Government Over ‘Gag Order’ on Private Health Care Provider
What disgusting reality do you live in Rob?
Here’s the reality I live in. Where middle class Americans who do real work get screwed out of their hard earned cash by unregulated Wall Streeters (enabled by George W. Bush and the neocons) who do nothing but push money around all day. When their incompetence brings the world to the brink of disaster, I bail them out so the economy doesn’t come crashing down. Then they use my bailout money to give themselves multimillion dollar bonuses to reward their utter and complete failure.
Here’s a more realistic barnyard tale:
Cow: “I’m going to work extra hard now to get food and store it away so I can have some later in the future when I get old.”
Pig: “Here, give me that food and I’ll put it in a safe place for you.”
Cow: “Ok, thanks.”
— 1 year later —
Cow: “I need my extra food now, I’m getting old and can’t work as hard as before.”
Pig: “Oh sorry, it’s all gone. I ate it all. On the plus side, I didn’t have to work and I still got really fat and I feel really good.”
Cow: “Um.. that’s not fair. I needed that food. I’m not going to give you any more of what I earn.”
Pig: “LOL, sorry, you have to. If I lose any weight, I’ll get dizzy and fall over and kill you. So you better give me the rest of the food you have.”
Cow: “…”
Sir Gill Bates
As for substituting creationism for evolution, from some of the things I’ve seen, both thoughts seem to be based on faith.
Sorry, but you are wrong. Unless you are using a definition of “faith” so broad that it makes the term meaningless.
I’m a proud middle class American and I don’t want busy bodies liek you Rob sticking your noses in my private life. Keep government to a bare minimum. If it weren’t for wealthy people providing jobs I wouldn’t have one. You seem to have some serious mental problems Rob. I suggest you go seek help ASAP before you hurt someone.
@ His Shadow,
Please elaborate.
Rob,
Keep voting for liberals who constantly cause cost of living increases through massive government waste and ever rising taxes to cover more and more and more of that waste and you will watch your situation go from bad to worse. You are your own worst enemy, fool.
Everything Her Shadow has ever posted is off the wall lunacy.
School kids taught to praise Obama
Disgusting!
@Tanner
I’m a proud middle class American and I don’t want busy bodies liek you Rob sticking your noses in my private life.
Oh, but it’s ok for government to stick its nose into gay people’s private lives by telling them they can’t get married? It’s ok for government to stick its nose into women’s private lives by telling them they must have a child if they get pregnant?
Wingnut hypocrisy is sickening.
@ Milton
Keep voting for conservatives so they can increase the already record breaking gap between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of America. Keep voting for neocons so they can give massive tax breaks to enormous companies to make sure their executives get their 8 digit bonuses. Keep voting for neocons so they can be sure to block critical legislation like health care, thus ensuring that 18,000 people continue to die every year because they can’t get access.
Keep at it, Milton. You’ve got your priorities exactly right.
Rob = jealous gay man, bitter that he can’t compete in the world so he will instead try to steal from the hard working people. No one on the right cares what gay people do as long as they don’t break laws. Marriage is between a man and a women. If you gays want to come up with your own name for something similar go for it we’re not stopping you. You idiot, taxing corporations at a high rate will only raise all pricing and you, you moron, will end up paying for those high taxes in the end. The person running a large corporation should make a lot of money. Normal middle class Americans could care less about that. You are a sick, sick person.
Rob = jealous gay man, bitter that he can’t compete in the world so he will instead try to steal from the hard working people.
WTF? How exactly am I stealing from anyone? I don’t work on Wall Street.
No one on the right cares what gay people do as long as they don’t break laws. Marriage is between a man and a women.
LOL. A man and a “women”? You probably meant to say “woman” right?
Anyway, your argument is laughable. Where exactly did your definition of marriage come from? The Bible? Sorry, I don’t believe in the Bible. It’s a work of fiction. Don’t force your bigoted beliefs on me. I’m free to believe whatever I want. My marriage doesn’t affect you, so stop invading my privacy and telling me or anyone else who I can and can’t marry. You claim to want government out of people’s private lives, yet you think it’s ok for them to decide who gets married? Ludicrous.
The person running a large corporation should make a lot of money.
Yep, and they should also be taxed at a much higher rate than you or I because they can afford it. If someone makes $10 million and the government takes take away 40% of it, they still have $6 million. They’re still obscenely wealthy. They will never have to worry about putting food on the table. If someone makes $50k and the government takes away 40%, then they only have $30k left. They might not even be able to live on that. They might lose their home. There’s a huge difference. The rich should be taxed more.
You are a sick, sick person.
Because I think middle class people should get the tax breaks and not rich CEOs? That makes me sick? Wow.
Rob never gives any credit to the billions of dollars of charity donations wealthy people create and support that help huge numbers of needy. Maobama is trying to put an end to these charities because he and his comrades want control of the money. Rob is is and a communist. Rob needs to read the Barnyard post over and over until it finally sinks in. No one will continue to work hard if freaks like you try to take away the fruits of their labor.
There are not enough rich people to tax Rob. Also see the post by Van. He speaks the truth.
@ Van
Rob never gives any credit to the billions of dollars of charity donations wealthy people create and support that help huge numbers of needy.
Good. Nothing’s stopping them from continuing to donate even if they have higher taxes. They’ll just have to take a little cut in their bonuses. They might have to settle for $8 million in bonuses instead of $10 million. Cry me a river.
Maobama is trying to put an end to these charities because he and his comrades want control of the money.
Dead wrong.
Rob is is and a communist.
Dead wrong.
Rob needs to read the Barnyard post over and over until it finally sinks in.
You can make me read “The sky is green” over and over and over, but that won’t change the fact the sky is blue.
@ TwentyBenson
There are not enough rich people to tax Rob.
What are you even talking about? I’m saying rich people should be taxed at a higher rate. However many rich people there are is irrelevant. Even if I’m the only millionaire in the country, I should be taxed at a higher rate than everyone else because I can afford it. It’s simple.
Conservatives won’t take him down, “we the people” will. He is as good as “one term Barry”. I consider myself to be a moderate and he leans so far to the left that he’s outside the foul pole line. He has surrounded himself with radicals and then we should expect him to govern as a centrist? Wake up and smell your Kool-Aid!
Rob you are hopelessly lost. I almost feel sorry for you.
As an Independent, I have to say that the Liberals are without a doubt the biggest whiners and haters. The venom and hatred and wishes of bodily harm that spewed forth during the Bush administration were unbelievable.
This cultish deification of Obama is truly scary. But the Liberals will never get it because they aren’t thinking, they are feeling.
This is the adult world, and making sound decisions requires rational thought, not emotional gut reactions.
Stop the hate!
Time for “Civil War Part 2” ????
This idiot needs to be impeached immediately before he does anymore harm to this country!!
January 26th… That’s the trial date if the “Birther” trial isn’t dismissed again.
Mark your calendars!!
October 5th, it will be decided whether or not to move forward with the accusation the Barack Hussein Obama is not a natural citizen of the United States. The judges are finally taking it seriously this time. We’ll see what happens at the hearing on the 5th of October.
You may need to tune into FOX News to get the story. I’m sure CBS won’t report on it…
Anyone notice Obama buddying up to the world’s worst scum today at the UN while he bashed the US again. Screw Maobama. Netanyahu gave a spectacular speech that should have been given by the US president too. It is sickening what is happening to the US.
“It is sickening what is happening to the US.”
As evidenced by these posts.
LOL. Sir Gill Bate just owned all you wingnuts.
I take that as he was talking about you Rob you jealous little communist wing nut.
More favors being done with our money. Al Gore’s small car company is getting a massive loan from the Fed.
Get used to it – it’s called government command and control. We are too stupid to decide where our money should be spent. Instead, money is mis-allocated by the best and brightest through political patronage to the detriment of the overall economy.
Democrats are working overtime to turn this country into wilderness.
1. Waste US money on useless thing.
2. Stop anyone in this country to build anything
3. Send money to Arabs for oil
The list is so long — it’s not worth regretting anymore. .. it’s over unless we can throw these bums out.
“Yep, and they should also be taxed at a much higher rate than you or I because they can afford it. If someone makes $10 million and the government takes take away 40% of it, they still have $6 million. They’re still obscenely wealthy. They will never have to worry about putting food on the table. If someone makes $50k and the government takes away 40%, then they only have $30k left. They might not even be able to live on that. They might lose their home. There’s a huge difference. The rich should be taxed more.”
One of the most retarded posts I have ever read. So you think the government should steal a wealthy person’s private property and hard work and give it away to whoever the government feels need it? Besides being illegal to steal money, do you trust the government not to waste that money or steal it on some phony pork project? The definition of wealthy gets lower and lower numb nuts. Just watch what your dear leader is going to do to us. You need to pay attention to what these democrats are doing and saying. You need to visit:
http://www.marklevinshow.com/home.asp
And check out listen live
I don’t want to spend more than 50% of my time working as a slave to the government. Basic government services are fine but this is completely gone out of control Rob.. The answer is not to tax the wealthy more Rob. It’s less government, less, unions, less regulations Rob.
It never ceases to amaze me how thoroughly the rich have indoctrinated so many Americans into believing that the wealthy earned and deserve every penny they have, and owe nothing to society.
In the mean time, the Montgomery Burns of this nation sit and rub their hands together, happily muttering “Excellent Smithers!”.
@@Rob
<I>One of the most retarded posts I have ever read. So you think the government should steal a wealthy person’s private property and hard work and give it away to whoever the government feels need it? Besides being illegal to steal money, do you trust the government not to waste that money or steal it on some phony pork project?<I>
One of the most retarded rebuttals I’ve ever seen. I’m taking about taxes, not “stealing private property.” Go read the constitution. Congress has the power to levy taxes.
All of the wealthy people I deal with for work give more money to charity than you would possibly imagine. We do not need corrupt Obama and friends stealing their private property and wasting it and using for their horrible pork projects and god knows what. Keep the government small and not too powerful. They are not the answer to everyone’s problems. They will be everyone’s problem beyond our worst nightmare if we keep heading in this direction. Which we won’t because the public is on to this liar.
over taxing anyone is stealing you moron. it doesn’t matter if it’s the government or a bank robber. the people in government would be thrown in jail for what they are doing if they tried the crap they are doing in the private world. they are beyond corrupt and you are beyond stupid. please get a clue.
Get ready for the value added tax and insurance tax to get added to the cap and trade tax to get added to all around tax increases. When is this hell going to end?????? You liberals are insane. We will never be out of this recession as long as the mornonic liberals remain in charge. Vote them out! Everyone in the government on the current government healthcare plan should be forced to switch to whatever Monstrosity they try to stick the US public with. Stay the hell away from my healthcare. Statist drones.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aGxdXdfWrZ7o
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090925/D9AUIKMO0.html
Also did anyone notice how the liberal rioters at the G20 meeting in Pittsburg were causing all kinds of mayhem. Lighting things on fire, flipping over cars, breaking windows, attacking people. Always the liberals causing violence when they “protest”. Contrast that with the Tea Bag protests. No problems until the union thugs showed up and started trying to intimidate the Tea Bag protesters. The union thugs attacked the peaceful Tea Bag protesters. You liberals are craaaaaazzzzzzzyyyyyy and dangerous. We will be voting your asses out!
over taxing anyone is stealing you moron.
Who’s talking about over taxing? I’m certainly not. I’m talking about taxing people according to how much they can afford. It’s called fairness. Look it up in a dictionary if you don’t understand the word, but most people learned it in kindergarten.
it doesn’t matter if it’s the government or a bank robber. the people in government would be thrown in jail for what they are doing if they tried the crap they are doing in the private world.
Hello? Government isn’t private. It’s government. It has the power to tax its citizens for the good of the country. Read the Constitution.
they are beyond corrupt and you are beyond stupid. please get a clue.
Wrong.
wasting it and using for their horrible pork projects and god knows what
Oh, I guess providing healthcare for every citizen so that 14,000 people don’t die needlessly every year is a “pork project.” Forgive me, I thought saving lives was actually worthwhile.
My what a refreshing comment. Middle ground is where we need to be