“Microsoft Corp.’s negotiations to use Adobe Systems Inc.’s technology in its new Office business software broke down earlier this week and Adobe threatened legal action, Microsoft’s top antitrust lawyer said on Friday. The previously undisclosed talks between the two sides centred around Microsoft’s plan to allow users to save work under Adobe’s Portable Document Format, or PDF, within the company’s Office 2007 suite of applications and its new Windows Vista operating system,” Daisuke Wakabayashi reports for Reuters. “Adobe objected to Microsoft building the ‘save as PDF’ option into Office and Windows, arguing that the ability to save a document in a fixed document format, such as PDF, is a separate product and should not be free, Microsoft said.”
“In order to avoid a legal clash, Adobe requested Microsoft remove the “save as PDF” option from the new Office and wanted to have users download the “add-on” function for a fee, said Heiner, who is also Microsoft’s deputy general counsel,” Wakabayashi reports. “Further, Adobe asked Microsoft to also remove the ability to save a document under Microsoft’s XML Paper Specification, or XPS, format — a rival to Adobe’s PDF technology — and then charge a fee to add the XPS feature into Office. Microsoft agreed to remove the built-in ability to save a document using both the PDF and XPS file format from Office, but refused to charge users a fee to download the two formats because there are rival products that already allow users to create PDF documents for free… Microsoft argues that Adobe offers for free the technical specifications to allow other software companies to build applications that allow users to save documents using PDF. A competing software to Microsoft’s Office from Apple Computer Inc. and an open-source product called OpenOffice allow users to save in PDF.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Note: Just a sec – we’re saving this as a PDF. Okay, done. Since it was first released, Mac OS X has been able to read and write PDF files. MacOS X is the first operating system on the market that actually uses PDF-technology within the operating system itself. Quartz, Mac OS X’s native graphics system, is built on the Portable Document Format (PDF) drawing model and all native Mac OS X applications can create PDF documents automatically.
According to Apple (2.7MB PDF, appropriately enough), “The Quartz imaging architecture is based on a digital paper metaphor. In this case, the digital paper is PDF, which is also the internal model used by Quartz to store rendered content. Content stored in this medium has a very high fidelity and can be reproduced on many different types of devices, including displays, printers, and fax machines. This content can also be written to a PDF file and viewed by any number of applications that display the PDF format. The PDF model gives application developers much more control over the final appearance of their content. PDF takes into account the application’s choice of color space, fonts, image compression, and resolution. Vector artwork can be scaled and manipulated during rendering to implement unique effects, such as those that occur when the system transitions between users with the fast user switching feature. Mac OS X also takes advantage of the flexibility of PDF in implementing some system features. For example, in addition to printing, the standard printing dialogs offer options to save a document as PDF, preview the document before printing, or transmit the document using a fax machine. The PDF used for all of these operations comes from the same source: the pages formatted for printing by the application’s rendering code. The only difference is the device to which that content is sent.”
According to the The PrePressure Page, “Some people have been wondering whether Apple pays licenses to Adobe for the technology used in Quartz. Here is what an Apple employer had to say about this: ‘The Quartz renderer and the PDF interpreter that Apple ships with Mac OS X are built with Apple code, with no external licenses, by Apple employees. Adobe just publishes a specification for how it’s supposed to function. This gives Apple considerably more flexibility with regard to what Quartz and the PDF interpreter can be used for.’”
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Is this Adobe being greedy or Microsoft pulling a move on Adobe which Adobe responded by pulling their format so M$ can just use XPS?
M$ knows Adobe needs money. Photoshop is pirated quite a bit on Windows and sales of it are stalled on Mac’s because the entire code base is being rewritten for universal/X-Code and they just don’t have the talent like they used too.
So whatta you think? M$ BS or what? M$ being greedy and not parting with the money?
Adobe thinks they are in a position of power. M$ knows it is?
What’s the real deal?
M$ doesn’t like the PDF cozy behavoir with Mac OS X, it’s too “open source” for them.
M$ wants to push it’s XPS,
Embrace, extend and extinguish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
Definately not first : /
Anyway… pfft?
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAh I FELL SORRY FOR M$ USERS
I love PDF. I couldn’t function without it. Many of my Windoze clients hate the fact they can’t create it for free without having to buy the program, but they all use PDF Reader.. HA
PDF is the business standard. Microsoft has been talking up Vista’s and Office 2007’s ability to save in PDF format for years.
Apparently they want PDF but they don’t want to pay Adobe for it because Apple doesn’t.
There is always open source PDF but the licensing is a bit much for Microsoft to swallow. I guess business will have to keep buying Acrobat.
I don’t understand. Why can’t MS do the same thing that Apple does? Take the free specifications and write code that meets those specs. If Adobe is not letting MS do what others are able to do at no cost, then Adobe is wrong.
This appears to be another case of M$ copying what everyone else already has.
That said, if Adobe didn’t go after Apple et al for including PDF, I don’t think they have much of a basis to block M$.
Then again, IANAL.
With so much cash reserves…they should be able to buy it out.
There’s gotta be something else going on here. My understanding is that PDF is an “open standard”, i.e. you don’t have to ask Adobe’s permission to use it. If I had to guess, I’d say that the functionality Microsoft wants to build in is based on Adobe’s source code, not just the PDF standard.
I hate to say it but I think MS is in the right this time, Adobe is being unreasonable here
It could be that MS is using some of Adobe’s code rather than rewriting it. If this is the case Adobe would deserve to be paid for their work. MS have run out of time to write any new PDF code for Vista.
I think MS is reaping what it sews. Adobe is not letting Ms get away with anything because it fears MS’s agenda is just to create an alternative MS “standard” in XPS.
Microsoft is a target for the whole industry and its only partners will become failing, yesterday companies.
Microsoft: By design, made to make you feel stupid.
MDN: DUMP THE TEXT LINKS.
Microsoft wants to use for free Adobe plugin technology into Office.
If MS went to get the details of PDF open standard and implement its own feature there would be no issue.
So Adobe is simply saying ‘if you want to make use of our technology and proprietary code, then pay for it, otherwise do the job yourself’.
Maybe MS is so much deep into Longhorn shit that they have their Vista obscured.
MDN Take: MacOS X is the first operating system on the market that actually uses PDF-technology within the operating system itself.
Don’t forget NextStep which pre-dates OSX by about 13 years.
diamond:
I thought NextStep used Postscript, not PDF. Subtle dif.
Ha, does Mafiasoft not get his way? Awwwwhhh… feel really sorry for them!
Artisculated is correct.
NextStep used Display Postscript, and – by all accounts – Apple wanted to use Display Postscript for Quartz, but Adobe license fees were too outrageous so Apple went down the PDF route instead.
I have bought a copy of Adobe Acrobat Pro for my Windoze laptop. There are a lot of goodies in acrobat pro that is far superior to my Mac’s PDF capabilities. If I want those extras on a Mac I have to pat Adobe for it. It is that simple. OS X PDF capabilties are limited compared to the Acrobat Pro product.
My guess is that in a classic case of one up-man-ship, M$ wanted to do something with PDF that Adobe considers their domain. When MS wanted it for free, or at least showed they can write it themselves for free….Adobe got pissed.
M$ probably did their typical tactic….They do this all the time. We will pay this very undervalued amount for your product. If you disagree: we have this pie chart showing your current market share. This next pie chart shows your market share after we offer our alternative and not pay you any royalties at all.
This tactic is how they got the nickname mafiasoft. This is what they did to companies like QEMM and Stacker. Norton and Novell survived this somehow (luckily for them).
“I hate to say it but I think MS is in the right this time, Adobe is being unreasonable here”
Wrong, M$ has a sinister motive in this, as in, we want to establish our own standard and eliminate PDF, …
so we can F&^%CK it up as we do all, the Internet, the computing indistry!!!
Hehehehe
I’ll vouch for the use of PDFs in Open Office. You don’t dare use any other format if you cut and paste from any Internet sites in your document. If you do that with OO’s native format, the document links those pasted sections from the net, meaning you really do not have it saved. PDF is really the way to go.
And as another poster remarked, NeXTSTEP used Display Postscript. It was also outstanding.
BTW, Apple really needs to buy out Adobe for several reasons:
1. Access to the full features of its PDF technology.
2. Ownership and full access to all of Adobe’s imaging software products.
3. Buying out a future competitor in the consumer products market. Flash interface devices are part of Adobe’s plans to place visual digital interfaces on consumer procucts. This is a real threat.
4. Preventing anyone else from buying out Adobe and screwing Apple.
There seems to be a considerable difference in file size in Apple’s implementation of PDF versus Adobe’s. Apple’s are much, much, MUCH larger.
I guess WE DON’T REALLY KNOW who’s right and who’s wrong in this case, despite all the opining on this thread. If M$ just wants to implement the same type of thing that Apple has done, though, Adobe has no business denying that.
Why can’t MS do the same thing that Apple does? Take the free specifications and write code that meets those specs.
Because MS is unable to write code that meets ANY specs!
This almost certainly smells like MS trying to use Adobe code.
MS, waaaah! It sucks when the holder of a document standard jerks you around, doesn’t it?
Mike, here are some tricks to reduce PDF file size:
http://www.hoboes.com/Mimsy/?ART=360