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Business as usual at Mafia$oft.

MW: followed, as in, ehhh.....I got nothing.

But when the Jobster gives a date for the almighty Leopard, let's see if Apple makes that date or not, shall we?

And let us not assume Vista testers WILL turn up problems. Bill Gates thinks it's 80% likely that they won't, and he knows a wee bit more about Vista than you & me.

"Late but great" is the Vista motto. If it's great enough, then "I can wait" is my motto. Soon maybe we'll see how Leopard stacks up and then I can choose WHAT to wait for.

Gates: "At this point, there is a 1in 5 chance it will slip again."

Nobody wants Vista yet even if they released it today the corporate world for sure wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole!

MDN MW = seven. As in the year '07. Gonna be a good year for Apple, and not for MIç®ø£øƒ†, if its a true magic word. Vista wont be released until....eight, nine, even ten. Maybe M¢ will be out of business by then..

Laugh now>

But let's also remember that MSFT shipped Windows 2000 Workstation with over 100,000 'issues' (the Microsoft euphemism for 'bugs'). So I wouldn't be surprised if the world gets the pleasure of Windows Vista and then has to wait for an SP1 release for it to be viable in a corporate workplace.

The sole reason these con artists are releasing Vista in 2006 is so that they can't be held to account by corporate Software Assurance customers who lashed out money from 2004 onwards to get access to the oft-promised (as-yet undelivered) Longhorn.

Gates warns yet another Windows Vista delay possible

OF course, they want to copy whatever Apple puts in 10.5

Also another dirty little tidbit, TPM (which Intel and Microsoft have created and is used in MacTels) has been successfully been hacked.

So the whole "trusted computing" thing is on it's ass (hurray!)

So the delay is because they are making it tougher.

yes i will laugh now, and ill laugh even harder when that pathetic, diseased OS called vista FINALLY hits the shelves like sack of lead.

the operating system could be delayed yet again if beta testers turn up problems

Whew! Only if beta testers find problems? That puts my mind at ease. I mean, how likely is it that the beta testers will find any problems? I'm sure all the tests will pass with flying colors and Vista will come out as scheduled.

(And then monkeys will fly out of my butt.)

I think they are waiting to see Leopard then they will try to see how long it will take them to copy it. Then they will say they had the ideas months ago and Apple copied them.

The need the extra time to allow MS engineers to attend the Apple Dev Conference next month.

Ironically, in related news, there's a 80% chance that Vista will suck.

Actually, I've been laughing for years.

Going forward, maybe there won't be any more Vista problems-but on the other hand, Vista is about 2-3 years late BECAUSE of problems. Maybe it's about time the problems were reduced. Doncha think?

That's an interesting way to look at it, Laugh Now. Here's my take: Vista, originally named Longhorn, was announced to ship years ago. About the time that Mac OS X 10.2 was scheduled to ship. Right on schedule, OS X 10.2 shipped - and it worked and was very good. No Longhorn. Next came 10.3 announcements. Longhorn's new schedule was up for about the same time. 10.3 shipped, and was even better than 10.2! Longhorn...didn't.

We are now halfway through 2006. Steve Jobs has not yet announced Leopard's intended delivery date. However, I'll guaran-fucking-tee you that it won't be announced and then slip a few years.

I don't know any PC users who are excited about Vista. None are anxious to get the Aero interface and they're all dreading installation woes. Not to mention, a total lack of real assurance of any improved security than they're getting with current anti-spyware and third party security apps. If Vista is not a requirement to ugrading PC hardware, what's the real point? Dell and HP will be ramming Vista shite down the throats of new PC buyers once the beleagured OS finally ships. Good luck Windows users.

There is a 80% chance that I will

have an explosive bowel movement,

but not one person will welcome it

when it arrives.

Now we get to see the clock count down to Apple going out of business. Between Vista and the new MP3 player Apple doesn't have anything to sell but tee shirts. The downward spiral of their stock shows that the public knows how much trouble Apple is in and that there is no way to fix it. Fortunately there is another company out there that produces a real operating system for real computers -- Microsoft.

mac realist=comedian

Speak, oh toothless one.

4 to 1 odds that it WILL ship by "late 2006." Is there a place in Vegas where I can place a bet that it WILL NOT, with those odds?

Frankly, when the company's board chairman makes a statement like that (with a percent likelihood and comment about beta-testers), it is a "warning." Why didn't he just say it "we expect Vista to ship as currently scheduled" if he was REALLY 80% sure it would do so?

"Ironically, in related news, there's a 80% chance that Vista will suck."

Only 80? Isn't MS's suckiness directly proportional to their market share?

They are waiting to copy whatever Apple comes out with in August as part of Leopard! Microsoft SUCKS!!!! I can't wait for the day when Microsoft collapses like Enron. The day will come, too. Just wait. It might not be for another 10 or 15 years, but it will come.

Simple-

Get the Public Beta, play with it, find all the problems you can, really not hard, bombard m$ with these glaring problems, vista delayed ONCE again, stock tanks, people buy real computers (read Apple here)

Mac Realist- I will not dignify you with a flame, please go to another site, this one is dedicated to and created for inteligent people.

"[...] the operating system could be delayed yet again if beta testers turn up problems."

Okay. Here's the timeline.

August 7: Steve Jobs shows off Leopard.
August 9: Bill Gates announces an unexpected delay in Vista.

Holy crap.

Roll me some of what Mac Realist is smoking.

As much as I hate MS and am generally unimpressed with Vista (the consumer version, I am a beta tester and use it daily)... many in Corporate IT actually ARE looking forward to Vista. The "Longhorn" version (server version) has a lot of improvements that make administration more powerful and easier, as well as overall security fixes. They have focused on the Corporate version and once that is released will go full speed ahead finishing up the consumer version.

I am *not* defending MS, so please don't flame this... it's just that to say that "no businesses are awaiting Vista" is a bit simplistic and distorted. You will need to read the corporate IT professional publications to see this side of the story.

Now, that said... the beta is extremely buggy and crashes an awful lot especially on third-party software. There are a lot of bugs still. However, there has been another build released that I don't yet have that supposedly makes it a lot more stable. I will believe that when I see it. Overall, I'm not overly impressed with Vista, but it is a nice improvement over XP. Many of the technologies behind the scenes are improved, but those aren't really readily apparant and won't be until new software is released that takes advantage of the new capabilities. I won't be buying Vista right away, or even officially upgrading to it on my PC. My next PC will be an Intel Mac, and may run Windows for games at some point, but that's it.

"if beta testers turn up problems"

…as if there was any doubt.

Come on,

can't an opportunity for a tasteless

joke be afforded to me once in a while?

It seems Apple released Mac OS X to the buying public in Alpha and Beta forms (Jaguar and Panther) and just patched things as they went.

With Microsoft they released true Alpha and Beta verisons of Vista for thse willing to test it before they start selling it on new hardware.

Any truth in the rumour that George W. Bush and Stevie Wonder have been appointed chief Beta Testers for Vista?

"Them folks over there, they need this software to set them free from the tyranny of the al-Qaeda virus."

"No, Bill, there's no problems with it that I can see..."




MDN word: 'seen'. Uncanny!

I'm sure corporate customers will be lining up to install an OS that isn't even fit for consumer desktops yet.

>"It seems Apple released Mac OS X to the buying public in Alpha and >Beta forms (Jaguar and Panther) and just patched things as they went.
>
>With Microsoft they released true Alpha and Beta verisons of Vista for >thse willing to test it before they start selling it on new hardware."

WTF. Idiot. Apple did release a public beta of Mac OS X to the public which came BEFORE 10.0. Then there was Cheetah (10.0) which was still a bit buggy (as WinXP is in present form, and Vista Beta 2 is), and there wasn't much software to take advantage of its new APIs. There was Puma (10.1) which fixed a lot of bugs in Cheetah. Then came Jaguar which was defintely not alpha, much better than windows xp in the opinions of anyone who used it. Personally my first Mac was on Panther (but Id used OS9 before) which is a much more stable, fast, secure, and other things, than Windøze will ever be. Ive been using it for 1 1/2 years now and now don't use Win except when forced to (work). I'll admit it probably was a bit steep of Apple to charge $129 for 10.0, but before that there was a free public beta of OS X. Panther is definitely not a beta release, Tiger just provides additional improvements, and I'm fine with using Panther until Leopard comes out.

MW=french, as in, HAHA you lost the world cup. England should have won (but Rooney's an idiot) but whatever. come on EUland, fine Micro$pazz lots of money. I bet Dynamic Mesh is French.

Also to note, Apple gave people a free upgrade to 10.1 (which was a fully stable working version of the OS) after theyd bought 10.0 previously.

Ah, Bill and his constant confusion of the word when with the word if.

it's possble to delay again. why? there is 20% bugs couldn't resolve yet on windows vista. now, it's kind of late to fix all of them. 20% is huge number. vista is hurry product to catch up mac os x it looks like. right now, it is no more new, any developing happening anymore. well, I don't care.

I will remember how stable OS X is next time my iBook just completely freezes and I have to remove the battery just to get it to reboot. Sure does happen alot for something that 'Just works'.

And go ahead and flame we for pointing out the truth all you fanboys want. Won't change anything.

Apple is working on making OS-x better and Microsoft is working on fixing Windows. I think that sums it up pretty well.

Stop beating me!

LOL!

Complementary lolerskates to Macro$haft

To Hanzo

I will remember how stable OS X is next time my iBook just completely freezes and I have to remove the battery just to get it to reboot. Sure does happen alot for something that 'Just works'.

Please make sure that you didn't install the cheapest PC ram that you could get, if you did, replace it. It worked for me.

Heads rolled at Airbus for delays & problems far less severe.

Here's betting the A380 will get off the ground before Vista does.

When the most optimism your chief engineer can muster is a 8 in 10 chance of launching on time, that's not good. Where's the cheerleading, the 100% confidence?

Sad to think NASA can launch Shuttles faster than MS can launch OSes.

englanddidntwintheworldcupbyamile

6 days 22 hours and 49 minutes since I last rebooted my MacBook. Let's be honest, as long as we are entrusted with putting stuff on our computer hard drives, and as long as we are entrusted to do the software and system updates --- well, it's more than likely we'll do a shitty job of it from time to time.

Naturally, once we've screwed up our system and various bits and pieces of software - it's God Damn Apple's fault!

Joop:

"Longhorn" enterprise edition is a different beast than the consumer "Vista" edition(s). Read up on IT news for the scoop.

But, still, your point is taken and I mostly agree. Since a lot of the code base is the same, if it's not stable yet in one, why would it be in the other. I know. I agree. I have not had access to the non-consumer builds, so I can't comment from personal experience. My only point is that there is a large portion of the IT community that is actually anxiously awaiting Vista/Longhorn.

It's sad, I know... very very sad.

Dynamic Mesh, you're dumber than me!

I predict that Steve Jobs, after the WWDC keynote, will turn and say..."Oh, just one more thing...Leopard is shipping today.
I think the WWDC was delayed for a reason. Look at the iPod sales over Christmas season last year...Jobs will have Leopard pre-installed and shipping with new Macs before Christmas seaso if he is smart. Introducing Vista, er...Leopard. It is important to get Leopard out the door before Vista, not after. If even one percent of all the sheep go out and buy Vista, the hype from that will blanket the Leopard release. I predict that Leopard will ship before the Christmas season. There is no move smarter, and compared to previous releases, Apple has had enough time to get it pre-tested and out the door.

>It seems Apple released Mac OS X to the buying public in Alpha and Beta forms (Jaguar and Panther) and just patched things as they went.

...moronic comment

There was a Mac OS X beta released before version 10.0. Version 10.0 (Cheetah) was still like "beta 2," but Apple gave early adopter a free upgrade to 10.1 (Puma). There was certainly nothing "alpha" or "beta" about Jaguar and Panther, 10.2 and 10.3, respectively. I'm using 10.3.9 right now; it is so rock solid I do not see a need to upgrade until I get a new Mac, which will come with Tiger.

A couple of points.
a) The expectation - for the past several months - was that Vista had slipped until sometime next Spring or Summer. Gates is saying "we're pretty sure we can do better than that". If they miss, it would be unlikely they would miss beyond next Summer. Or ... see below.
b) Dell needs six months in the lab with a product before that product ships on a Dell. Dell is Microsoft's biggest client - by a significant margin. As in, Apple (no. 6?) and HP (no. 2?) together don't match Dell. If Vista is going to be released to the public in January, Dell has to have something close to "gold" by ... well, NOW! And they will need the version they agree to ship within three months. Else ... so sorry, MS, we'll ship when we finish testing.

A side comment, if you don't mind. Longhorn initially had a feature set that might have challenged Leopard. By the time it became "Vista", the feature set was trimmed and retargeted so heavily that it might not even challenge Tiger. All this troll-talk about "Apple, meet your Doom" is at best Trash Talk and at worst proof of sheer idiocy. The flip side is, most PC users neither know nor care how great Tiger is or Leopard should be.