MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

I've done surveys like this one, and when it comes to unaided recall of "most admired" or whatever, it all depends on what's in your head at the time. You might have just read something favorable or unfavorable about any company, and that's what sticks in your head and then comes out.

I don't really take too much stock in any of these surveys, either pro Apple or pro anyone.

Better one product than none at all. Dell could so easily be wiped away. I think Rollins and Mikey know this.

Dell has innovated and been copied by many manufacturers. However, it has innovated in the way Wal-Mart has innovated--in finding ways to sell products at lower prices. Both sell commidity goods and the focus of their innovation is in cost-cutting, not in advancing the development of anything they sell.

Funny, my office got a Dell laptop a few months ago, and as I was turning the thing around (its actually the first PC laptop I've handled in many years) what struck me is that the thing looked like an overgrown Powerbook 5300--it was like the previous decade in designing laptops had never happened. Don't get me wrong, inside the case it has whatever commidity design is popular in the intel world--but otherwise it could have been made anytime in the past ten years.

The problem with Dell is that it therefore is an entirely parasitic entity--it spits out cheap versions of whatever is current, but development is left to others. As far as products themselves, the next new idea Rollins/Dell has will be his/its first.

"Dell could so easily be wiped away" - Dave H


Dude, You're getting Delusional.


Magic Word "Windows", How Ironic.

Opinionated Jerk: Your Right, They are only innovative in the Manufacturing Dept.

It is easy for the guys on top to fall really fast. Case in point - UUNET. Remember, back in '98 and '99 when they owned the commercial Internet business? They were the ISP of ISPs. There were reports that over 70% of the world's Internet traffic at some point hit their network. Leased line connections from them got a premium over Sprint, C&W;, AT&T;. Now though, Internet connecitivity is a commodity, in perception, if not reality. Now, after being swallowed up by WorldCom, most people have not even heard of them. Go to http://www.uu.net and you are directed to MCI's home page. When your product becomes a commodity, and China is able to produce it and sell it for seriously reduced prices from yours, you are in a dangerous position. Apple, by doing something different, will continue to go along, if not thrive. But if your only advantage is installed base and a low price, as I believe Dell's to be, you are a low hanging fruit, ripe for the picking.

i wouldn't give you $50 for a Dell...

not even the $3,000 dual-processor model they had to replace for me at work.

pure garbage.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with KernalPanic. Dell will be around for a while and we have to get used to it.

Even so, Dell can't innovate their way out of a paper bag and their CEO should entertain us for the foreseeable future.

im back!

dell sucks, your computers are craptastic mike.

Congratulations Dell, on a job well done. This site seems to be full of Apple losers with Dell envy!

Me/Kernel: I have to agree with Dave H, and here's why.

Dell's "innovation" is purely driven by turning the thumbscrews on the production side squeezing out "excess" costs, whilst simulateneously squeezing out distribution costs by eliminating concepts like customer interaction, systems integrators and others.

However, there is only so far one can "devalue" a product before you reach a baseline cost. For Dell, the major elements of the baseline cost are the MS license, the Intel mobo and the shipping. So, if someone can develop a cheaper mobo and has lower shipping charges it will be able to sell more systems and will inevitably acquire a more advantageous OEM deal from MS.

Step forward , Lenovo - which will arguably be selling the x86 system architecture to the East Asia region using prodigious and unbelievably cheap labour and shipping it within China without ever having to resort to sea or airfreight. Flooding high-density populations, such as India, Indonesia and The Phillipines with product will distort the market and bring down license costs.

So now, Lenovo can sell systems to the USA with at least two major cost elements lower than Dell, leaving Michael and Kevin with nowhere to go seeing as they have no culture of technological innovation.

The history of IT is full of companies who simply disappeared because they couldn't get out of the way of the next step-change. Does anyone remember Cullinet? Amdahl? In a generation, no-one will remember Compaq, Digital, Data General or Dell simply because technology and economics will move on.

Dell's CEO seems to be plenty worried when he makes dumb comments like that one. I don't hear any stories about DEll being inovative but I've heard plenty about Apple not only being inovative but being the top computer company when it comes to inovation. Contrary to that fortune story. When it comes to asking business owners about computers they have all been brain washed by there IT heads that you can only use a PC. Only smart companies know this is so far from the truth. Dell says one product? Ah I don't think so. He must only be thinking about the iPod. Apple has many inovative products besides the iPod. Try the Macintosh line. The G5 tower, G5 iMac, the G4 powerbook line. I'm sure others have many more inovative products they could list off. Oh and not only hardware. But what about software. iLife and iWork software. I don't see anything close on the PC side. So there you go DEll talking through your %$#! again.

RE: PC'S RULE

INCLUDING ONE WINDOWS LOSER SUFFERING FROM DENIAL AND 'MAC ENVY'.

Go back to your virus infested, inferior piece of M$ crap.

You are not welcome amongst the computer elite.

Yea congrats Dell on trying to convince yourselfs that you are some how inovative.

MCCFR

Exactly. When you have nothing to offer other than a cheaper price, you can't expect customer loyalty.

yes.. sure Dell could have done the iPOd.. but..they.. called it the Dell Jukebox.. and no one bought it..

And they got into bed with Bill and Ballmer and still no one bought it..

Dimension XPS gaming system? No one bought it.. cuz hardcore gamers build their own shit...

A laptop for gaming..? Uh.. no one bought it cuz hardcore gamers don't leave the house...

So you're getting your ass kicked by the iPod.. and without AAC+ you're gonna be missing the digital music gravy train and you can't build a gaming system to beat up on the PS2...

But you can sure talk junk when Fortune Magazine comes to town...

OK Dell fans. I'm sitting in the Apple store in London Regent St -my first time- and you I can tell you that a Dell in this place would look like dog turd in the Uffizi Gallery in Florence. This place is BUZZING. And the Apple guy that replaced the A key on my keyboard- gratis- says it's a quiet day today!

This place rocks and Apple is on the way. There are queues at the checkout and people are wondering around asking if they can REALLY buy this stuff!

Its amazing. Go Apple!

Since when has selling cheap crap been innovative?

I believe that Apple is the only computer manufacturer in the IT business that has won an Engineering Grammy Award for their invention of firewire.

No other computer company in history has ever won a Grammy award.

So what has 'Dell' actually invented????

Anyone know????


....thought not - NOTHING!

Hey, PeeCees rule, are you NMFY you a$$hole!!!

Dull CEO's need to give it a rest*



*Magic Word.

By claiming that Apple has only had one innovative product, this idiot shows how out of touch he is with the real world. I mean come on, the iPod is far from Apple's most innovative product. Here's a quick, off the top of my head list, but I guarantee I won't be listing even half of them:

The first (mass produced) computer with a GUI
Laser printer
Desktop publishing
AOL (although they never saw it through to fruition)
Newton
QuickTime
Firewire
Expose
iTMS

They also pushed many tech areas further like wifi, adoption of USB, etc.

Without Apple's long history of innovation, Dell may not even be here in the first place. They helped make computers an essential part of our modern lives. Pull your head out of your ass Kevin!

Forget Rollin's nonesense about "innovation." Apple innovates all over, Dell doesn't innovate at all. Case closed.

The REAL secret in that whole interview was Dell's position 21 years ago vs. now. HP, Compaq, IBM, Apple were the big dawgs in computing and Dell probably wasn't on anyone's screen (I bought cheap, flakey hard drives from "PC's Limited" before they became Dell).

The PC scene has changed dramatically in 21 years. Gone is Compaq and IBM. Who would have thought it. HP is boring, as is Dell. Apple? Well, best quarterly sales and earnings ever, despite market share.

What will the market be in 5 years? 10 years? No one 21 years ago would have thought IBM would exit the PC market. They did. Will Dell fall from the perch of #1?

It could happen. There's not much "buzz" on Dell these days. The only way they get press is by slamming other makers.

Come on, Dell. If you're such a great company, where are the great products? You sell disposable boxes. Apple sells products that will still be in the grasp of my cold, stiff fingers when I die.

Tera Patricks
Mac360.com

Macaday,
That reminds me of the other day when I went to CompUSA. In the Apple section people were having fun with the computers, playing with GarageBand, iMovie, asking the salesperson about all of the amazing possibilities a Mac presented, etc. When I walked past the PC section, people were asking the salesperson about virus protection software. This speaks volumes about the difference between Macs and PCs.

SolarFlare,
You're right, no other computer company has won a Grammy. Actually, I'm pretty sure they've won a few Grammy's as well as at least one Oscar and an Emmy too.

KernelPanic,

Dave H is not "delusional"; he's absolutely 100% correct that Dell could be wiped away. MDN is wrong; Dell shouldn't be worried about China, they should wake up screaming in terror of the Chinese PC makers. Dell's innovation, as Opinionated Jerk pointed, is to lower production costs and commoditize PC's. China has the potential to lower costs even further, and Dell's model would evaporate overnight. They would have to scramble to reposition themselves and good luck to them.

Operational Innovation

Dell innovates with efficiency, and that is just what is necessary to survive in a commodity business. This of course is where Walmart is successful as well. Once there isn't much left in terms of operational efficieny, it makes sense to add additional prducts that are moving towards commodity products. Dell has already moved into TVs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dell moves to digital cameras soon, more flash mp3 players and Tivo like devices when the times is right. As more an more consumer products use more and more PC componnents, Dell will be right there to lower the price points.

Everytime these guys mention Apple in a disparaging manner it shows their fear.

Those stupid Dell commercials with the guy in bed calling in the middle of the night are so arcane. Apple has phone assistance during the week, but people dont need the kind of help they do with wintel boxes. Im glad I finally saw the light in 2002. I can barely stand having to work on a windows box. Ill walk to the back of the school library to use the jaguar OS on old eMacs rather than use those Dell POS up front.

There was a recent Newsweek article, which said the same thing: Innovation outside of the production arena was viewed as "a waste of investors' money" at Dell. Apple was a failure because "nobody was buying" their product.

I'm reminded of Henry Ford and the Model T. Ford made huge improvements in automobile production and brought the cost of the car into the range most working people could afford.

But he also produced the same model T for NINETEEN YEARS (1908 -1927) with only minor improvements. "You can have it any color you want, as long as that's black" is the frequently cited quote. Ford held 61% of the US market for automobiles. They eliminated many of their competitors by simply pricing them out of existence. Why innovate when the car is now a "commodity?"

Then GM (and particularly Chevrolet) began competing on style and options and service, and Ford never again dominated the market as they did in that period - at one point 52% of the cars in the world were Ford Model T's. Ford had to scramble to compete, introducing the Model A.

The tipping point for Ford came when the number of second-time buyers outnumbered first-time buyers. All the first-time buyers had a Model T, and wanted something better next time.....

Something Dell should remember.

MDN wrote: "On the top ten "Computers" list, at number 1 (ironically, since they've exited the PC business) sits IBM with a score of 7.61"

IRONIC? Ever heard of a little computer called Blue Gene/L? The one that topped the list of most powerful supercomputers IN THE WORLD?

You Mac people don't understand the world we actually live in. You say that the Mac is 'better'- and it is better- but better in the wrong way. The Mac is better like the Renaissance was better- it is culturally elite. It is beautiful. It is refined. It does things fantastically well. Our world today is not culturally elite, and we can't handle greatness! Most of us are ordinary, average guys. We do not go to the Louvre to see Da Vinci and Van Gough- we go to the couch to see what's on tonight on Fox! Steve Jobs is cool, but he's too cool: he would never hang out with guys like us! Bill Gates is as big of a loser/hoser as I am/we are. He has no taste. He is not smart. That's why we Window's guys love him- we are not great, we are not smart. Greatness makes us uncomfortable. Averageness allows us to sleep comfortably with our overweight/out of shape wives! We don't deserve/want a Nietzschean ubermensch leading us. Give us our utilitarian Mills/Gates! Don't hate us for sucking at everything: Most people suck, and WE ARE LIKE MOST PEOPLE!! WE SUCK, BUT SUCKING IS OK!! WE LIVE IN A BRAVE NEW WORLD!!

Losers of the world, unite!!

Dell is a distribution company and is very successful right now. Their largest risk is going to be China and their potential to flood the US market with a ton of computers that are significantly cheaper than Dell.

In terms of products, Dell will continue to be a "follow the leader" company, which is the second major risk they are taking.

Presently there are enough novice users to keep Dell at the top of the heap, but that will not last forever.

Dell makes no software.They are stuck and have their hands tied with MS.I look at this way if Apple just made hardware and ran on MS they would have been out of bussiness long time ago. But they make their own software and can innovate.Thats pretty powerful if you ask me.Even if MS had no virus Apple would still be a company to fear just because they have their own software and hardware.

Dell has a single principle as a business model. They don’t do R&D;. They don’t improve on design. They don’t innovate. They sell the status quo at a lower price than anybody else…so far. They are in the same position Chrysler (Dodge) occupied in the auto industry in 1970. Chrysler nearly went under. They were saved by a government bailout. What happened to them was that they were “out-cheaped” by the Japanese and the Europeans at the same time that fuel shortages and price hikes made their product less desirable.

Fast forward to today and change industries to computer manufacturing. Dell will be “out-cheaped” by the Chinese using slave labor for production and Linux for an operating system. At the same time Wintel boxes are being made extremely undesirable by the increasing glut of spam, malware, etc.

Apple is in a position analogous to BMW in this historical model. They’ll do well because they don’t compete on price, and they aren’t dependent on an albatross of an OS.

But hey, what do I know? My investment analysis and strategy has only made me 600% in the last 2 years. I’m sure you’ve done better, right?

Dull doesn't need to wory about China at all. They will just move their production there when they need to.

Strawberry yogurt is my favorite.

Oh, and you Mac zealots are clearly just jealous. Dell is a true innovator - something Apple will never be.

Apple makes quality products with quality parts.

Dell makes cheap products with cheap parts.

To me they don't target the same cusotmers....

My sister is on her third Dell laptop because they keep breaking. I'm still on my first PowerBook.. I've never had a problem she has all kinds of problems. He husband has gone through numerous Dell laptops too. She's now considering switching to a Mac.. she's tired of all her crappy dell computers.

Dell's will last maybe 3 years if you're lucky.. An Apple computer will last you ten years.. Quality.. That's what Apple is about and people are starting to figure that out. Now that processor speeds aren't bumping up so fast and people are realizing they don't need so much power, people will look for something that's built with quality and will last. Companies like Apple and Alienware will do well.

you know, there are other PC manufactures other than Dell .Try an IBM, Toshiba, or a Sony.

"An Apple computer will last you ten years"

Maybe, but will it be usable? I still have my Mac Quadra 800 66 mhz. Yeah it boots but so does my 486 sx66 with win 3.11....both are crap. You're point?

Ben-

I mentioned another PC manufacturer that I thought was damn good, Alienware, but maybe you have tunnel vision and only see what you want.

As I stated point is that they have quality products that last... You can turn your old Mac into a dedicated router and firewall. It’ll last and that’s comforting.

Also, I have no problems with PC's, just crappy Dell's.

Good ol' Ben. Standing up for the PC faithful. We're a dying breed, buddy.

By the way, IBM is out of the PC business, numbnuts.

"Dell's will last maybe 3 years if you're lucky.. " - PeterTheDellBeater

Um, yeah, if you don't use it.

Dell is the Wal-Mart of computing - period. All the PC faithful will defend Dell till their dying breath but for what? Why? You know Dells are crap so why not just accept it?

What did Apple have to do with the original of AOL, ndelc? Were they really involved somehow? Anybody remember eWorld, or maybe this is what you're referring to? Ahhh, those were to good 'ol days before the WWW was born.. the world of BBSs.

Apple has been at the forefront of technology all along. Even in their dark years, their systems looked much nicer next to the drap PCs.

I had no idea that Dell was 21 years old... never heard of them really until the last couple of years since they've exploded onto the scene. It still shocks me how most consumers think that Windows is their only option, and Macs just don't cut it. They've got it so backwards.

Ha ... you Mac guys are so pantheritic. Why would you pay so much for a computer?

Why, i walked into my local pc shop the other day, and they offered to pay ME to pick up a pc. Top that Mac men!

It's a great machine too .. it's got a gigablertz chip, and ram up the ying yang ... and none of your wimply girly like mini cases .. nosireee...its got a big honkin 3 foot tower that I can crawl right into and upgrade the baby MYSelf!

Sorry I have to go now .. my favorite reality tv show is on, so I'm sitting down to watch my fuzzy 53inch Zellers humungo flat screen special, have a nice bowl of Kraft dinner, and check my lottery tickets ..

See ya losers ....

"Also, I have no problems with PC's, just crappy Dell's."

hmmm...ok, then don't buy them...problem solved...not sure if your "PeterTheDellBeater" crusade is really warranted.

I'm not exacly a fan of margarine as I prefer butter...but you don't see me flipping my shit everytime I eat a cookie made with the vile stuff

Ben,

What is "flipping my shit"???

Is that some Wintel Fan Boy code lingo or something? I'm unfamiliar with the concept of flipping shit.

It's Ben lingo....usually nonsensical words that make no sense to anyone

I understand Ben perfectly. We have a telepathic connection - the same one all Wintel fanboys need since we need a frickin' 20 person IT staff just to keep our network going. No Rendezvous here, baby!

Don't you Mac zealots feel so excluded?

BSOD:

The PC community defends Dell? The PC community defends no one...there is absolutely no brand loyalty whatsoever. PC users shop based solely on price and nothing more. Read up and do some research before making stupid statements. Dell is crap...'nuff said.
Please move along...nothing to see here.

NoMacForYou:

Didn't I tell you to crawl in a cave and never come out like a week ago? Why are you still here? go away

Little Boy Ben...

You did read the article, didn't you? So you know why I'm shouting for Apple, don't you? Then of course you know why the subject is Dell and Apple and why on a Mac site we'd bash a Dell, where the CEO keeps jabbing at Apple..

Ben,

It helps if you actually read the post. I didn't say "the PC community" - I said "the PC faithful." Clearly, I was referring to the PC faithful that feel the need to post on this particular topic, since I would hope that our comments here are topical.

That may not be the case for you but I guess it seldom is for you trolls.