Alison Denisco Rayome for CNET:
On Wednesday, Apple filed a friend of the court brief with the Supreme Court in support of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy, ahead of a Nov. 12 hearing on whether DACA will be terminated.
Though Apple has filed numerous briefs as a company, this is the first time CEO Tim Cook and Senior Vice President of Retail and People Dierdre O’Brien have signed their names to a brief, an Apple spokesperson said.
Apple currently employs 443 “Dreamers” from more than 25 countries, an increase from 250 “Dreamers” in 2017.
In February, Cook joined more than 100 business leaders including Bezos, Pichai, Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg and Twitter’s Jack Dorsey in signing a letter asking Congress to find a legislative solution to protect immigrants covered by DACA.
MacDailyNews Take: A permanent legislative solution would benefit everyone involved.
Please keep the discussion civil and on-topic. Off-topic posts and ad hominem attacks will be deleted and those who post such comments will be moderated/blocked. Permanent loss of screen name could also result.
Obama never had the right to create DACA out of whole cloth. Congress makes the laws, not the executive branch. Trump has full authority to rescind executive memos, as he has done with virtually all of Obama’s.
I don’t have any trouble seeing DACA as lawful. It was simply a direction to federal police and prosecutors that they should use their discretion to deport felons first, then other violent criminals, and so forth, with non-criminal individuals who were brought into the US as minors — and therefore had committed no crime at all — at the very end. If that policy were followed in the real world, where police and prosecutors only have limited resources, the bottom categories would never be reached. Rather than leave those individuals in limbo indefinitely, it was preferable to offer them the ability to survive as productive US residents. The DACA program simply formalized that rational hierarchy in the use of discretion.
The problem with eliminating the program is that it invites the authorities to pick deportees according to caprice, rather than according to a rational hierarchy of priorities. The DACA kids, having already identified themselves, will become the low-hanging fruit that is much easier to find than the actual criminals who should be the focus of attention. Apple has a legitimate interest in protecting hundreds of its productive employees, who represent a pool of experience that cannot be easily replaced.
The elimination of DACA is just one element in the Administration’s attitude towards legal immigration, which will make life more difficult for American employers like Apple in many other ways.
It doesn’t matter what you “see” as lawful, only what is actually lawful. DACA is not a law, therefore it is not lawful. Trump was correct to rescind it and let the bicameral Congress make the law, or not, as the U.S. Constitution stipulates.
DACA wasn’t rescinded because it was unlawful. President Obama knew it wouldn’t pass the supreme court that’s why he left it up to congress to deal with.
What’s that #MoscowMitch? You shirk your rConstitutional responsibilities to hinder, obstruct, impede and delay anything the BLACK ,AN wants to do.
You really need to get off your high horse. It’s made of excrement.
Obama did not make a law. He provided executive guidance on the manner in which the law was to be enforced. It was intended to be an interim step until Congress could get its act together. But the GOP was too busy obstructing everything in an attempt to make Obama look bad. But it backfired to some degree because then we got Chump, who makes every President before him look wonderful. I would even take W Bush back now.
“Attorney”, this is a forum for discussion, not a court. TXUser has every right to call out what he sees.
“Attorney” says that executive orders are not law, therefore “not lawful”. By that logic, are all of Trump’s directives are bunk too, right? Are executive orders to be followed by the State Department or not? Do you not understand that equal effort is not made to enforce every law, that the authorities have limited resources and must select priorities? If every law was immediately and rigidly enforced without mercy, then practically every car owner in America would lose his license for one moving violation or another. Discretion is the better part of valor.
Of course we know that valor isn’t present now. Remember, Dirty Don has been a corrupt businessman all his life. Many of his executive orders reek of corruption, inconsistency, and lack of common sense. Let’s start with the basic corruption. The Mueller investigation exposed only part of the iceberg — in at least 10 instances, Trump’s obstructions of justice prevented us from seeing what else was really going on. Just like the promised tax returns that Trump refuses to offer. The primary defense that Trump used to get off the Russian election interference charge is that his employees denied to execute the POTUS’ unlawful orders, therefore the POTUS’ flagrant ignorance of the law makes him innocent. Now we find out that because the weak/corrupt AG allowed that, Trump amped up his efforts to tilt the election with other foreign connections at his disposal. You can expect to see Trump claiming Exec. Privilege and selectively using his staff’s refusal to break the law in his defense going forward, while Trump supporters will attack all prior non-GOP administrations for any actions they undertook by executive order (facts prompting their accusations never offered, of course).
So it would appear that the value of an executive depends much on how politically biased a person is. Go ahead and file charges on every corrupt democrat. Please do root out corruption wherever it can be found. The GOP only had decades to formally charge Clinton, but they were unable to lock her up. Nobody with a law degree and a brain has brought any charges against slimy Biden. So while several firsthand Trump associates are in jail, what is taking so long for charges against the other corrupt party? Even if some dumbocrats are finally brought down for their pay-to-play politics (a bipartisan D.C. tradition, actually), that doesn’t get corrupt idiot Donny off the hook. The Constitution is the law of the land, and if he violated it, that is indisputable grounds for impeachment and possible removal from office or jail. Everyone who isn’t a partisan asswipe already knows about the obstructions of justice, the race baiting, the repeated emoluments violations (That’s Article 1, Section 9), the perfidity, the public support for violence, the 1st amendment violations. Now we have evidence of election influence, specifically using his office to extort foreign entities for a political “favor” in Trump’s own words.
All of the flailing of this incompetent administration on twitter and in embarrassing press conferences hasn’t done a single thing to make America greater than it was at any other point this century. He hasn’t reformed any significant laws — except of course the poorly designed 2017 tax law that pours more money into the pockets of already-rich corporations and their executives. The so-called economic accomplishments his remaining supporters have touted are evaporating before our eyes, as debts mount and the main street economy wilts, and farm economy burns down. Is small town America happier and healthier and wealthier now that Trump riled up the xenophobes? How about all them new high payin’ coal and steel jobs that those nasty immigrants were stealing before? Ain’t they great?
DACA is a common sense executive order that makes the world a better place. Trump’s executive orders are, in no particular priority: self-enriching, a power grab, a headline ploy, a distraction, a xenophobic action, a means to insult anyone who disagrees, and/or kickback to campaign donors. None of Trump’s executive orders have improved business, improved worker pay, improved the environment, made America safer, or any of a dozen other campaign promises. Quite the opposite. Trump’s attempt to blindly undo anything Obama did is hurting American citizens and companies. DACA hurt no one. It benefited communities and companies like Apple. Is there no room in law or execution of the law for common sense, or must we be beholden to whatever dictator wannabe holds the White House at any given moment? I would like a real attorney to provide a second opinion.
DACA is an illegal order by a President who wanted more illegals in the country to inflate Democrat vote counts.
Actually not but it is sooo cute seeing you repeating that ignorant and insulting lie.
#cult45
If DACA was an illegal order, please cite the specific law that was broken.
Mike is correct. Executive orders are just politicy statements to guide employees. Who on the Red Team vetted all the Drumph orders for legality??? Ya had congress in your pocket and couldn’t bother to turn any Donny policy into a law with teeth. Among dozens of other things that Drumph claimed he would do but hasn’t …..
Tim Cook, Steve’s worst mistake
You are entitled to your opinion and (unless “Attorney” is the screen name for five Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States) I am entitled to mine. I worked in prosecutors’ offices for thirty years and I can assure you that the exercise of discretion is an inherent part of the job.
Your opinion actually doesn’t matter. Only what is actually lawful really matters here. DACA is not lawful as the executive branch does not make U.S. law. This is logic. This is fact.
Are you by chance a millennial? No offense if you aren’t, but you certainly sound like one. You sound like a democrat, for sure.
What you “see” or what your “opinion” is don’t actually negate the U.S. Constitution.
And you sound like you just finished a #cult45 enema.
Actually, Attorney, I am in my late sixties. Not many Millennials have been prosecutors for thirty years. I worked for three successive Republican elected prosecutors and have voted in the Republican primary every even-numbered year since the 1970s… before any Millennial was born.
I had the good fortune to learn US Constitutional Law from the acknowledged leader on the subject at the time, who would almost certainly have served on the Supreme Court himself if he had not been asked to represent Richard Nixon during Watergate. Like him, I am a constitutional conservative.
So, yes, I do understand that the legislative power of the United States is committed to the United States Congress, which is a co-equal branch of government alongside the executive and judicial. That is why I have criticized the efforts of the current Administration to block the independence of Congress and decry the independence of the judiciary.
However, that has nothing to do with DACA. The executive power of the United States is committed to the President and his administration. The power to execute the laws necessarily includes the power to determine the manner and means of doing so, except insofar as an executive policy directly contradicts a statutory law or final judicial order.
The legislative branch appropriates the funds to carry out executive operations, but those resources are almost invariably inadequate to fully fund the lowest-level priorities. One of the first things a Texas criminal prosecutor learns is that there is about one of us for every 10,000 residents in our county, but about 43 violent crimes and 246 property crimes, counting only the specific offenses tracked by the FBI. It is simply impossible for an individual prosecutor to obtain the maximum sentence in 300 to 400 trials a year. We have no choice other than to employ our prosecutorial discretion to try only the highest priority cases, plea bargain the mid-priority, and decline to prosecute the lowest priority. The courts, including the Supreme Court, understand and have approved this.
The resources committed to immigration enforcement are similarly constrained. They cannot arrest, confine, provide due process, and physically deport eleven million people in any reasonable time frame. They have to set priorities and focus their resources on the most serious cases first. Doing so is a proper exercise of executive, not legislative, power. It is part and parcel of determining the manner and means to carry out a statutory duty. Telling Federal officers not to spend resources on noncriminals who did not voluntarily enter the country, but to focus on serious offenders, is not even vaguely “an attempt to make U.S law.” That, too, is logic. That, too, is fact.
If the Administration wants to keep politically exploiting “Angel Moms” whose children were killed by aliens, it might try explaining that violent offenders are being allowed to stay in the country because the government is using its limited resources to deport nonviolent and even noncriminal persons instead. DACA was a reasonable executive policy to avoid that irrational result. Terminating it without even suggesting a detailed alternative is arbitrary, and therefore legally questionable.
TxUser, that was one of the most cogent and balanced responses to the politicrap on this forum that I have read in years. I applaud you for your well-reasoned approach to this topic and I appreciate your years of service as a prosecutor. It must have been quite challenging and difficult.
I don’t expect everyone to agree with me on everything, or even most things. But it sure would be nice if people could mostly agree on the foundational principles of this country without resorting to partisan blinders. It is almost impossible to hold an open debate on important social and economic issues anymore given the focus on the extremes.
And you we’re doing so well with your pompous blather, until…inevitably, triggered by some ‘sound’ opinion about the law and it’s history, you throw credibility out of the window with “You sound like a Democrat, for sure”
You guys are so obvious with your messianic need to politicize the legal framework and backbone of basic constitutional norms, arguments and established procedures along with any relevant facts at hand.
“Attorney,” your logic is so flawed that it defies belief. An action can be lawful or unlawful. For instance, you can take an action to steal something and that would be unlawful. Stealing is not a “law,” it is an action. And there is a law guiding the response to that action.
In this case, Obama took an Executive action to clarify the enforcement of the law. The Executive Branch is responsible for enforcement, therefore his clarification of priorities in terms of identifying and deporting undocumented immigrants was a reasonable (and generally perceived as lawful) implementation of his priorities.
This has nothing to do with “negating” or violating the U.S. Constitution.
In contrast, the Trump Administration’s extended detention of undocumented immigrant minors is violation of established law as interpreted by the courts.
So, there is lawful…and then there is unlawful.
Bravo @attorney for two excellent posts while ignoring the liberal ilk onslaught around here by sticking to constitutional FACTS and your guns. Awesome!
Your most excellent quote: “What you “see” or what your “opinion” is don’t actually negate the U.S. Constitution.”
BOOM! Negates all the ridiculous alternative theories and opinions from the fever swamp liberal onslaught and in one graf says it ALL… 👍🏻
As usual, I am amazed by your comment, GeoB.
Question: Given that the Supreme Court has not yet spoken to this issue and most lower court rulings have left DACA in place, why is my view of the Constitution an “opinion” while Attorney’s view is a “FACT”?
Note One: Answer the question I asked, not whether his opinion is better than mine (or more likely to pass a Federalist Society smell test). I asked why my opinion is “a ridiculous alternative theory and opinion,” while his is not an opinion at all, but a concrete verified fact.
Note Two: Your answer should not contain ad hominem arguments, neither “President Trump said it so it must be true” nor “TxUser said it so it must be false.” Stick to persuasive logical arguments.
@TxUser
It’s depressing to be proved right and so quickly….MDN did indeed throw some red meat into the ring and the knuckle-draggers predictably try to rewrite facts, the law and history in total denial of reality.
DACA exists because the GOP has never been willing to establish new legislative policy on immigration. Why? Because they want to go to zero immigration (expect for wealthy and educated white folks).
First, this isn’t a Trump political rally. Second, Trump is creating new executive powers on a daily basis in ways that range from highly questionable to illegal — Comletely immune from investigation?! Blanket executive privilege on everything?! Ability to reroute funding authorized by Congress from the DoD to a border wall?! Only because Moscow Mitch is complicit in this BS. Third, Trump is obsessed with eliminating anything associated with Obama, even if he only changes it a tiny bit and gives it a new name.
If Trump would work to fix sometihing – to establish a viable new policy before destroying the current one – then I might have more respect. But he is obsessively focused on deconstruction of the U.S. government. Putin could not have hoped for better…
I will be so glad when Chump leaves offices and moves into Mar A Jail Cell.
I have no problem with the kids who were raised as Americans being allowed to stay and become official citizens. My problem is with all of the people pouring in from countries south of the border illegally and creating havoc and undue expense.
Tim Cook supporting illegal aliens becoming normalized would be like Donald Trump insisting that Apple implement back doors in their software for malware and viruses – because “open source and open doors are always good”.
Kent, these DACA people are already here in the U.S. They have jobs in the tech industry and are paying taxes. They are exactly the kinds of people that Trump claims to favor for immigration to the U.S….except they aren’t necessarily Caucasian. But they are clearly educated and self-supporting.
I don’t know what kind of fantasy world you live in, but the U.S. Is not going to deport 21 million people. That will never happen. So why start in with the DACA kids/young adults? Go after the real bad guys and stop jailing families and children. Disgusting Trump policies!
Apple issues “updates” which erases illegal malware or defeats it. The USA has legal processes to address criminal aliens whose first act here was a violation of the law. It is called deportation. Apple brags about a beautiful “walled garden”, rightfully. The USA should be a “walled garden” where new citizens are welcomed when they enter the garden legally. Malcitizens are not welcome. All part of well run companies and well run countries.
Kent, you failed to address the key issue. Given the available resources, the U.S. cannot rapidly deport millions of undocumented immigrants. Read TxUser’s post above – really read it – and you will understand that DACA was a matter of prioritization of locating and deporting the criminal undocumented immigrants over just arbitrarily grabbing anyone that ICE can readily handcuff.
DACA is focused on children who were brought into this country at a young age and grew up here. In the old days they were known as citizens. But I suppose that you now have to be a Russian model and marry a wealthy U.S. citizen to justify entering this country and being considered worthy of citizenship??
In order to qualify for DACA, the person have to be law abiding. As you will note, many of them have grown up and hold great jobs in the U.S., paying taxes and supporting this country. Why, with limited resources, would a President focus on screwing with DACA when there are so many other more critical areas requiring attention. The answer is clear – DACA is associated with Obama and Trump wants to eliminate anything associated with Obama. You will note that Trump and his cronies have no real plans/policies to improve this country. They are simply intent on tearing down critical institutions in this country including the Congress, the Courts, and domestic and international Intelligence agencies.
Actually, the US has the resources to deport illegals. No problem. The Democrat candidates are on the campaign trail promising $1200 per month salary for doing nothing for all who sign up, including illegals, along with free health care for all and free college for all. So, don’t give me this crap about “we don’t have enough money to secure our borders.”
Well run countries don’t have gulags as holding pens for potential legal immigrants to be processed under byzantine immigration rules that don’t even make sense.
Asking for asylum is not illegal. What the current administration has done is stretch out the legal limbo in a crude antichristian attempt to dissuade anyone from asking to immigrate rather than putting forth effort to streamline immigration processes. Trump isn’t going after corrupt corporations that hire undocumented workers, he pretends a medieval wall is going to stop the baddies. That is simplistic thinking to the extreme. The vast majority of the people picked up at the border are asking for humanitarian assistance. A significant percentage of the “murderers and rapists” that Trump cites in his paranoia-inducing propaganda are US-led gangs and drug cartels. Has Dumbo Donny brought down a single international trafficking ring?
If you truly support legal immigration, you’d hold your own party accountable for its lack of immigration reform for the last 2+ decades. The current administration has only made poor processes worse. Holding people indefinitely is not an answer. If you’re going to deny all hispanic immigrants, then change the law accordingly and move on. That’s what Trump actually wants, isn’t it?
Regarding chain migration: Trump seems to have no problem importing silicone-implanted trophy wives from Eastern Europe, as well as all his in-laws. Melania overstayed her work visa, why is the GOP not interested in investigating that corruption? How have Viktor and Amalija Knavs made America a greater place? Both here on green cards sponsored by an illegal immigrant. But that’s okay, the rules don’t apply to Trump.
Let’s see how long it takes for Donny to go after Apple’s 443 “illegals”. Will his supporters join the Apple boycott? Why not?
Obama had the gulag holding pens. There are none now. BTW, you are a real jackass.
Actually not.
Actually, yes Obama ran the gulags. The pictures all were taken during the Obama years. Nevertheless, if you enter illegally you are entitled to prison. But then CITIZENX is braindead so he does not understand such nuances as crime and punishment.
Grow up kent.
Boy sure would be cool to have a thin bezel iMac.
Your demeaning use of the word “boy” is racist. I don’t understand why CitizenX hasn’t jumped all over your white a$$. Also, do you really want a “thin bezel iMac”? What’s wrong with the current normal bezel iMacs? Do you realize how hurtful it is to make blanket statements about BMI? You’ve been brainwashed into thinking that you want a thin bezel iMac by the media.
I feel so triggered now. I need a safe space to recover. Perhaps in a room with TxUser and KingMel, who would continually fart unicorns and rainbows. No, actually that wouldn’t be good, as it would trigger my SOS (sensory oversensitivity syndrome).
PS: Just kidding. I see how you attempted to change the direction of this thread to something much more positive, and I appreciate it. I up-voted your post!
I am Ahhhh choo!