“iPhone owners could cash in on a portion of over $1 billion in what lawyers are touting as Australia’s largest-ever class action, after tech giant Apple admitted to slowing down some phones,” Alana Mitchelson reports for The New Daily. “Australian compensation law firm Shine Lawyers confirmed to The New Daily on Friday that investigations have begun and it intends to file a class action against Apple in early 2018.”
“This has come a week after Apple’s admission that it has been slowing iPhone 7, 6, 6S and SE models during iOS upgrades – its explanation being to prolong battery life and ensure phones did not suddenly stop working, despite an overall slower user experience,” Mitchelson reports. “In part of its investigation, Shine alleged Apple’s behaviour ‘misled’ consumers into believing their iPhones were malfunctioning and caused them to upgrade to newer, more expensive models.”
“Jan Saddler, Shine Lawyers’ class-action expert, estimated more than five million Australians have been affected. She said that the total amount of compensation sought through the class action would likely be ‘well in excess of $1 billion,'” Mitchelson reports. “Similar legal action has been taken against Apple overseas, including eight lawsuits in the United States. Some of these lawsuits have also claimed the problem could have led to customers choosing to buy a new phone for a faster-performing device, arguing that the weak battery could have been replaced for a fraction of the cost.”
Read more in the full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: It’s one thing to claim Apple intentionally withheld information in order to compel iPhone upgrades. It’s quite another to prove it in a court of law. Good luck with that, ambulance chasers!
And, so, it looks like we’re wrapping up the year, unfortunately, on the wholly-avoidable “batterygate” brouhaha. Apple shot themselves in the foot in typical uncommunicative fashion. May the company do much better on the communication and many other fronts in 2018 and beyond!
Now, beloved and cherished interns, commence Operation Multi-Tap! Not just one, but two kegs await! TGIF! 🙂
Happy Early New Year, everyone! Prost!
SEE ALSO:
The most annoying things about Apple’s iPhone ‘batterygate’ apology – December 29, 2017
iFixit discounts iPhone battery replacement kits as Apple cuts prices, apologizes for the confusion – December 29, 2017
15 class action lawsuits filed against Apple for throttling iPhones with aging batteries – December 29, 2017
Apple apologizes for poor communication about iPhone batteries and performance; slashes battery replacement cost from $79 to $29 – December 28, 2017
No, Apple’s throttling of iPhones with aging batteries is not planned obsolescence – December 28, 2017
Apple execs face jail in France after lawsuit over slowing down iPhones – December 28, 2017
Korea seeks explanation from Apple for slowing down devices without warning – December 28, 2017
Apple now facing 8 lawsuits over throttling processors in iPhones with aging batteries – December 27, 2017
Apple tarnished their brand with clandestine iPhone battery management and processor throttling – December 27, 2017
Should Apple replace aging iPhone batteries for free instead of throttling processor speed? – December 21, 2017
Apple confirms iPhones with older batteries will take hits in performance – December 20, 2017
iPhone performance and battery age – December 18, 2017
Apple met with Chinese regulators to discuss iPhone 6s unexpected shutdowns – February 10, 2017
Rumor: Apple may extend iPhone 6s battery replacement program to iPhone 6 – January 17, 2017
A message from Apple about iPhone and unexpected shutdowns – December 2, 2016
Apple offers free battery replacement for ‘very small number’ of iPhone 6s units with unexpected shutdown issue – November 21, 2016
OFF Switch. <- Simple. Do it Apple! If the lawyers get upset, add a disclaimer before the ‘battery life extender’ process is turned off. 😀
Suggested wording: “iOS is limiting peak battery usage on your phone to avoid having it overheat or shut down without warning. If you are not worried about being stranded without a working device, you can turn off this safety measure. By doing so, you are assuming all of the associated risks.”
No, just the reversible risks, like frequent shutdowns. The customer is not responsible should the phone fry due to the battery, for instance.
If there is risk of injury, that’s a recall level risk.
I found the wording of this statement from one of the Android OEMS interesting “We do not throttle CPU performance based on older batteries.”
That’s probably true, but as far as I’m aware every Android phone throttles based on heat, there are forums upon forums on Android sites talking about this, discussing what phones or devices throttle less or more, which get too hot, how much lag you see in games when throttling is happening, etc. Strange nobody seems to have looked into this issue on the Android side.
My only experience with heat and battery is that when the phone gets too hot, it does not wirelessly charge. This has only ever happened to me in the car in the heat of summer on the dash. Yes, I have a wireless car charger. But this is not slowing down, and it is full disclosure.
The bigger issue with Apple was that they veiled what was happening.
I probably wasn’t clear enough, Android devices are throttling the CPU because of thermal issues. Here’s a quote from an article about it.
“Suppose the processor is running at high clock frequencies for a long time, it will normally heats up. Once the cpu senses the temperature above a threshold level, instead of running in the max clock speed, say 2.1 GHz it will reduce the clock speed to 1.4 GHz. This is done automatically inside the processor and end users cant override unless they tweak the kernel. Lowering of clock speed due to high temperatures is the reason why some times you notice lags while you play heavy games.”
There are many forum discussions about how to disable this throttling on Android since it is not within the user’s control. If you bought an Android device advertised with a certain CPU speed, you are definitely not getting that advertised speed all the time. As your device heats up the CPU is throttled (slowed down) to deal with the heat.
I don’t remember any Android OEMs talking about this and it sure sounds like you didn’t know about it. The forums and sites where I see these discussions about Android throttling are all geek and power user sites. Normal people probably don’t know anything about this.
That’s why the wording “We do not throttle CPU performance based on older batteries.” is interesting. Android phone CPUs are throttled, but for a different reason.
Don’t take this as a defense of Android, it’s not. Don’t these devices behave that way on day one?
The real problem with Apple is policy, not physics per se. Though one can argue that the compulsive desire for thinness pushes physics to the limit can be argued. You’ll notice that this program does not cover the iPad because it has a larger battery that can handle stress better, and lasts longer.
For all intents and purposes Apple is the mandatory IT department. I don’t mind IT departments on other people’s devices (such as employers, and such), but I hate all IT departments that I don’t control and that control my property.
Here Apple instituted a material change in device behavior without notification of extent, depth, or nature of the modification. This masked a problem with an aging (perhaps prematurely) part, by changing the function of the device in a material way. All self-serving behavior. Had they said “Hey we changed your power scheme to abc, for xyz reason” you would at lease have had the opportunity to replace the battery, get a new phone (Apple or Android), or live with it. That’s called choice.
I am far more forgiving on technical grounds than I am on policy. This is entirely on Apple, not on physics.
Your comment comes across as a defense of Android CPU throttling. Android OEMs have said, I think all of them now, that they don’t throttle their devices. That is false. They do, from day one as you say, and that’s mostly because chipsets used in Android devices are not as advanced as what Apple can currently do. Android devices have no choice, it’s either throttle the CPU or damage the device. I don’t have a problem with that by the way, it’s a technical limit that has to be dealt with. Apple’s control of the whole stack is an unfair advantage in this respect.
However, Android OEMs are advertising specific speeds and are not telling users that CPUs are throttled to well below those advertised speeds. In fact those OEMs are now saying “We don’t throttle”. They’re being careful about the wording because they do in fact throttle the CPU.
I agree Apple needs to be more transparent but there’s no malice. What Apple is doing makes devices last longer. That’s good for users. I’ve seen TxUser make the point a few times that a device that shuts off randomly is not safe. He or she is right, it’s much better to have a working device that is throttled, and that is exactly what Android devices do as well, just for a different reason. Android OEMs aren’t telling users about the throttling either and as I’ve said they’re doing the opposite now, telling users they don’t throttle devices. That’s an outright lie.
Apple is becoming more and more transparent. I don’t think they were trying to hide anything, they were just doing what was best for users and it’s hard to argue with their solution. I do agree Apple should have told users. This is a good lesson for Apple. However, Android OEMs are also throttling the CPU and are now telling users they don’t. That is also bad and they should be called on it.
Android masked nothing, so it has nothing to hide or defend. Statements from individual manufacturers are at least semantically true. The devices behave the same as they would on day one regarding performance. It’s not something the device was reprogrammed to do in secret.
I do think Apple is more transparent now, than under Jobs. He instituted censorship, forced buyers o buy Apps exclusively from Apple for chrissake, but they were too late on this one and have a long way to go.
I’m not arguing with their solution, I’m arguing with their covertness, and their IT level policies.
“Android masked nothing, so it has nothing to hide or defend. Statements from individual manufacturers are at least semantically true.”
Okay, you’ve taken the apologist role now, “at least semantically true”? Come on man, those are weasel words and you know it. You weren’t aware that Android devices were throttled and now you’re trying to rationalize it.
Worse, Android OEMs are telling users they don’t throttle their devices when THEY DO. Users aren’t going to understand that those OEMs mean “we don’t throttle due to the age of the battery but we do throttle because of thermal issues and when we advertise a device at a specific GHz you won’t get that full speed a lot of the time.”
I thought you were better than this. You’re no better than the Apple apologists, you are just on the other team.
You’re right…
“The devices behave the same as they would on day one regarding performance. It’s not something the device was reprogrammed to do in secret.” was sufficient.
BTW..yes, I agree to hold Android manufacturer’s feet to the fire too. I don’t do the fan thing. Bang away at them. Fine with me, but the situation you describe has nothing to do with what Apple did. Even if they were the same, it does not excuse Apple.
“You’re right…
“The devices behave the same as they would on day one regarding performance. It’s not something the device was reprogrammed to do in secret.” was sufficient.”
Android devices are crippled from day one without informing the user. A brand new Android device doesn’t give you the advertised performance, it is throttled right out of the box and users aren’t told this is happening, and you’re not furious about that?
You’re either mad about both kinds of throttling or you’re an Android apologist.
Apologist? Nah! Screw them all!
Does Android even administer my device? For all the grief Apple apologists lay on Android about not being current, a grief I agree with, you cannot turn around and equate ‘out of box’ behavior with ‘covert behavioral change’.
“Apologist? Nah! Screw them all!”
Then you are also mad that Android OEMs are throttling devices from day one without informing users, yes or no?
No Apple deceived. They changed the device without telling the full impact if their changes. Just a notification.
Excellent succinct point …
So I give Apple preferential condemnation…
“No Apple deceived. They changed the device without telling the full impact if their changes. Just a notification.”
You don’t care that Android OEMs throttle devices without informing users, but you’re mad that Apple did it? You are a hypocrite then. If you claim to be mad about deception then you still have to be mad about both because Android OEMs are now saying they don’t throttle devices, WHEN THEY DO.
“Apple is becoming more and more transparent.”
As made famous in the movie “The Right Stuff” Apple really screwed the pooch.
They are becoming far more SECRETIVE than “transparent.” How many Apple watches are sold, is when it started.
TXuser is a well known Apple Apologist and incapable of calling them on the carpet for anything. And that’s fine, freedom of speech.
I posted this yesterday and today: How good or poor are Apple batteries that my 21-month old phone needs to be throttled? I can only guess the batteries are of the same poor quality build as charging cables.
Totally unacceptable …
You posted that yesterday. I responded: “What proof, as opposed to supposition, do you have that your phone is being throttled?”
You did not answer because, as usual, you have no facts to support your opinions. When you do cite “facts,” they are almost inevitably false.
You will respond to this with yet another personal insult because you never met an ad hominem argument that you didn’t like.
I have, in fact, called Apple on the carpet any number of times (don’t even get me started on Pages). I am not apologizing for their lack of transparency on this issue… they already did that. I am simply pointing out that many of the criticisms here and in the press are based on junk science, whereby Apple could miraculously produce like-new performance from an old battery.
Well, the supreme Apple Apologist is poorly attempting to make this issue about my iPhone, my command of facts, which BTW, is none of your business. Suffice it so say I have written Apple on this issue.
Many others (AC for one) on this forum in the latest thread have successfully skewered your fanboy battery defenses and I simply don’t feel the need.
It is pathetic to read your oh so mild mentions of objections to Apple’s transparency and others which made this a major issue.
Written in typical apologist style and avoiding the main issues, you just can’t help yourself.
Oh, I also read you are setting me up for ad hominem attacks and personal insults. Tempting, very tempting — but sorry to disappoint you. Time for another round … 🍺
Thank you for proving my point.
You have NO POINT other than Supreme Apple Apologist …
Well said. Apple could not have managed this PR disaster more poorly. Heads should roll …
There is a case against Apple. People didn’t know the devices were being throttled down. They thought that they bought a quality device that “just works”. Instead, they experience slowdowns in what looks like an aging phone that isn’t sufficiently fast, and then turn to buy a new one as the phone becomes slow and frustrating to use.
This is what may lead to lawsuits being successful. The remedy is money back to people affected. If the devices weren’t throttled, then they’d be faster and people wouldn’t have been as compelled to buy new ones.
The fact that Apple has technical issues with their phones suddenly shutting down, etc. is Apple’s problem, and may speak to products that are in some ways defective.
Apple needs to figure out ways to deal with aging batteries better, including better battery chemistry, etc. This is their problem. They must be transparent. This will provide people the information they need to make a purchasing decision: they may decide to not buy an iPhone and buy something else that doesn’t suffer from sudden shutdowns, etc. with aging batteries.
Well said. Apple erred and needs to pay …
I am getting sick of the entitled generation that thinks Apple owes them something. They fixed the random shutdown issue and people where happy. Despite what the entitled whiners are saying, I don’t believe that the consumer does have the need to know what every optimisation in an iOS update does. That would be a document with 100s if not 1000s of pages. Quite frankly, the average consumer is too dumb, to understand anyway. That is why they jump to stupid conspiracy theories, that Apple deliberately slowed down iPhones to somehow ‘force’ them to upgrade. It is total bullshit that that these whiners upgraded earlier than intended because their phone sometimes ran slower. They have just seen an opportunity to get some money from Apple. Their case will fail on 2 fronts. They did not suffer any damages, the IOS update provided a more reliable phone and has provided a battery service warning in the battery settings menu since iOS 10.2.1. They also have no proof that Apple deliberately ‘slowed’ iPhones, despite what the stupid media are saying.
The technical issues that Apple has with it’s phones shutting down is common to all phones. Apple choose to ‘fix’ the problem with a temporary throttling technique that improved power management during peak workloads. Android manufacturers have chosen to ignore the problem. They would rather have customers upgrade because their phones shut down randomly. If making an aging iPhone work more reliably for longer, is planned obsolescence, then that is a pretty fucked up definition.
The problem I have with Apple’s apology is that they had to have been aware of what they were doing and what the issues were. Look at this part of their apology:
Recent user feedback
“Over the course of this fall, we began to receive feedback from some users who were seeing slower performance in certain situations.
Based on our experience, we initially thought this was due to a combination of two factors: a normal, temporary performance impact when upgrading the operating system as iPhone installs new software and updates apps, and minor bugs in the initial release which have since been fixed.
We now believe that another contributor to these user experiences is the continued chemical aging of the batteries in older iPhone 6 and iPhone 6s devices, many of which are still running on their original batteries.”
Why did Apple insert this into their apology? This comes after the part where they say they’ve changed the power management in iOS and slowed the devices down. It looks like they put this in to cover their butts. As you can see, they say that the feedback they got over the fall about slow performance was taken to be the result of software bugs or temporary performance impacts as a result of upgrading iOS and Apps.
What nonsense Apple. You knew that it was the throttling or ought to have known that was the culprit for chunks of the customer feedback you refer to since this feedback came shortly after you launched the throttling update. And you failed to communicate that to customers because you didn’t want people knowing that you were throttling devices. And you just thought this would be able to be kept a secret. Only now that you’ve been exposed do you admit to it and you’re still lying to people.
Apple has zero credibility for me more than ever now. They didn’t have much before this, but this is the end for me.
I will continue to buy their products because I feel like they’re the best, but my list of product issues with them is growing and growing.
I’ve said this over and over for years. Tim Cook is a loser, and is wrong for Apple.
-Why does the keyboard on the new MacBooks/Pros suck so bad? Because you designed it wrong: the keys are so shallow that mistakes happen more and the experience of typing is horrible.
-Why does the Apple Watch automatically switch back to the exercise App when I have an exercise in progress when I’ve opened another App (Music). It’s beyond frustrating and this is a long list of things that are designed wrongly on the Apple Watch.
-Why have you completely failed at Apple TV? Because you have no damn focus and no ability to execute here. Still waiting for Apps as channels where people can subscribe for $1.99 to a channel and build their own programming.
-Why is there a notch on the iPhone X? It’s terrible and the reason it’s there is that the phone is designed wrong. You need to miniaturize the sensors and camera to fit in the small bezel of the phone or make transparent components.
-Why are your products so damn fragmented? Touch ID on most iPhones and MacBook Pro. FaceID on the X. No TouchBar for keyboards for Apple’s desktops; TouchBar on the MacBook Pro. Selling laptops with 20th Century screen resolution (MacBook Air). Ya, you keep selling this because of how bad the keyboards suck on the new MacBooks, which was supposed to replace the MacBook Air. How many old iPhone models are for sale! Jesus…
-Why is battery life so TERRIBLE on my $3500 MacBook Pro? Because you reduced the size of the battery so much so it could be thinner and lighter, which is clearly wrong. Figure out how to make it thinner and lighter without reducing the battery life.
-Why does battery life kinda suck on the iPhone X? Because again there isn’t a large enough battery in there. Figure it out…
-Where is the revolution in your software? I envy people who have the Microsoft Studio PC. This is the future of desktops. And you’re nowhere near this. I want huge screens and touch interfaces combined in a desktop environment. iOS is a toy and a joke for productivity; OS X is literally at a standstill. Figure it out…
-Why does Siri suck so bad? Because you’re not innovating.
-And HomePod? A me too product. Apple is chasing, not leading. Why do I want these speakers when a person can have really good BlueTooth speakers where Siri is always on you (smartphone/Apple Watch). These can be connected to the speakers.
I could go on and on and on. I am literally on the cusp of buying a MS Surface Studio PC. I hate windows. Hate it. But for certain applications it will be incredible to have that screen size and multi-touch. Apple, that lead weight iMac Pro is a antique tank compared to the MS Studio PC. You need to develop a new operating system to replace BOTH iOS and Mac OS X so it will run on all devices and have applications that are responsive.
Many points, well taken …
Agreed. Apple has been producing fewer quality products than in the past. iTunes has lost my music and playlists no less than three times (and I subscribe to that music replacement service). People are starting to see that “halo” effect diminish. That means people will start comparing more than ever, which is bad news for a company that has been built on blind loyalty. You can’t replace that. Apple has really shot themselves in the foot. The newer “hop-ons” will continue to defend apple. The OG apple customers will be the first to go (as we can see the breadth of the decline). Soon Apple products will be the walmart versions of what they are today.
Samsung is doing the opposite, it is striving to earn customers trust by trying every innovation (even though not all of them work). This battery issue is the tipping point for previously loyal and betrayed apple customers. If I were on the Apple board I would be furious and demand some Steve Jobs level of innovation, and anything that would bring back the good will they enjoyed for the past decade.
can you hear, can you hear the thunder?
Oh MDN that’s so funny what you said ” It’s quite another to prove it in a court of law.” All some down under lower has to do is point out that this is just another salvo in the Battle of Brisbane and Apple will be found guilty.
Tim Cook stepped in big, steaming, stinking pile of shit. Good thing Apple has the advantage of Trump’s tax relief. This is gonna take a whole lot of lawyer’s fees.
clearly you want cook fired for a plethora of reasons, both professional and largely personal
BWAHAHAHA, the Lilliputians are at it again. And the lawyers KNOW how disingenuous this is. It will not work out well for them.
Well then, Apple has nothing to worry about even after their apology, er, admission, huh?
All your whining and mocking isn’t going to prevent Apple having to go trial.
I’m still not getting it. So if a battery can’t fully charge, why is there is a problem that requires slowing down the phone?
Graceful and more accurate discharging to prevent sudden and premature dischargeration.
Not trying to be difficult, but I still don’t understand this. Even if my phone’s battery is old and only charges to, say, 70% of the capacity it was once able to charge to, why have to slow the phone down? Apple’s official statement says “A chemically aged battery also becomes less capable of delivering peak energy loads, especially in a low state of charge, which may result in a device unexpectedly shutting itself down in some situations.” Apple’s statement seems to imply the following: That the phone should be slowed down ONLY when A) its max-charge is below a certain threshold and B) it’s current-charge is below a certain percentage.
The problem was as follows:
The expected behavior would be for the phone to start at 100% charge and gradually drop from there—without any change in performance—until it reached 0% and shut down. That is the actual behavior of an iPhone with new batteries.
In a phone with old batteries, users had the same expectation, except that the smooth drop from fully charged at 100% to dead at 0% would not take as long. That was not the actual performance, however. It was not even the POSSIBLE performance on that hardware.
Instead, the actual performance was for the phone to drop gradually to perhaps 80%. If it was then subjected to a heavy load like GeekBench or the MDN app, the phone would get warm, the battery indicator would drop 50% in a matter of minutes, continuing to somewhere between 20 and 30%. At which point (before any low-battery warnings), it would suddenly shut down until it could be charged.
The fix was for phones with bad batteries to have the peak loads which caused rapid degradation leveled out so that the phone would continue to operate until the battery charge was naturally exhausted. Yes, Apple should have told people that was what it was doing, but no reasonable person would trade continued peak performance against the possibility that their sole means of communication might shut down in an emergency.
The reason that it makes no sense to you for Apple to slow down older phones is that they WEREN’T slowing down the normal performance of older phones. They were leveling out the peak performance of phones with bad batteries to keep their customers safer.
Most users never noticed the slowdown, because they don’t regularly put heavy demands on the batteries. All they noticed after the fix is that their phones stopped crashing without warning. Most power users who would notice the slowdown never experienced it because they don’t use phones that are more than two years old.
So, some years back, not enough people would have been affected to attract attention. With over a billion iOS devices in circulation, a problem that impacts only 0.001% of users affects 10,000 people… all of whom have access to social media.
What has made this “batterygate” is that much of the tech press is reflexively anti-Apple and most non-tech reporters (like the lawyers filing suit) does not understand the issues involved.
I normally find I agree with you very often, but I must admit that if anyone else were making the arguments you’ve made on this topic, I would consider them a sycophant.
Let’s take your apologetic stance to an extreme example to highlight the breaking points of your argument. I think we can agree on the basic physics of the matter, but the devil is in the details…as an attorney you could be enlightening me on that fact.
Let’s use the new iMac ‘Pro’ as an example. Unless it’s for vanity, people are not going to buy this machine just to play solitaire, to browse the web, or to write an email. It’s supposedly heavy hardware for heavy problems.
Now, let’s say the lighting of the screen begins to degrade (this happens too, and is natural and expected) and since internal heat is a contributor, at a certain point Apple slows the machine down, when under stress, to preserve the display hardware, BUT DOES NOT TELL YOU. Would you say that Apple is liable for selling you a machine that cannot artificially fulfill the expectations you purchased it for?
But if they told you that your screen may die prematurely and you should have your machine serviced, all would be well.
This, by analogy, applies to the battery situation.
a) This is a durable good, not a disposable one. Apple designed a device that pushes batteries prematurely to their limit. The devices are too thin to accommodate a larger battery that can handle stress better.
b) They sold a device bragging about it’s performance. Great! That performance is expected under load, not under “Solitaire”. What you seem to be arguing is that the phone isn’t throttled most of the time (solitaire) only when you need the peak speed. Then, what’s the point of having “fast solitaire”?
c) Since the iPhone is in a locked down ecosystem, fully Apple integrated (down to the App Approval level), with Apple as the sole arbiter of all performance, Apple is for all intents and purposes the IT department, and bears FULL responsibility of performance and delivering advertised expectations.
d) If this were to prevent batteries from becoming a safety issue, then it’s a RECALL LEVEL EVENT. They over-aggressively designed the product. Not saying that’s the case, but you can’t have it both ways.
Had they disclosed, and allowed an informed decision to be made, or at least fully informed the impacted device owners, this all would be moot, as it NOW is…
End of rant…
I can remember when Macs actually were throttled back when they overheated due to excessive demands on the CPU. I can’t remember anybody getting their knickers in a twist over it.
It is not a RECALL LEVEL EVENT when my old car goes into “limp home mode” and won’t shift out of first gear because the onboard computer detects a sensor fault. Can I sue Honda because it is preventing me from driving at highway speeds?
Similarly, it is not Honda’s fault if I drive with bald tires, or Apple’s fault if I “drive” with an old battery. In both cases, the manufacturer expects consumers to take some responsibility for themselves. All they can do is take appropriate steps to protect their customers from the inevitable consequences of trying to deny the laws of physics, which dictate that tires and batteries go bad over time.
I fully agree with you that Apple should have provided their customers with better notice, including a warning that the battery had aged to the point that load-leveling was necessary for safety (not stranding users unexpectedly without a phone) and that the battery should be replaced if the user wanted peak speeds available. However, I don’t think their “failure to communicate” rose to the level of a class-actionable lawsuit.
If it needs to go in limp home mode you bet your bippy it is.
You can definitely sue Honda is they secretly keep you in first gear are you serious? I paid for 6 gears.
You didn’t pay for a sensor that would last forever. Honda was preventing engine damage or a complete breakdown as a result of normal wear and tear. That is admirable, not actionable.
But Honda would tell me…
Exactly!
Perfect retort to the supreme Apple Apologist …
Thanks Geo, but in this case IMO he’s covering, not in general. Anyway, the Supreme Apple APologist is another guy from another board, who “just might be” “First”, with whom I was jousting last week. You have only seen such mental gymnastics in cartons.
Carry on my wayward son …
Unfortunately we’re “ not in Kansas anymore!” ;-). But I will… Thanks!
Funny how things change, huh?
Not even the same thing. Apple recommended a security upgrade that actually degraded performance. Apple insinuated that it was giving users a needed service while hiding the fact that this same software was going to make their devices less useful. Apple should have give users the option of installing the security update knowing that their devices would be made less useful or the option of retaining device functionality and declining the security update as Apple encouraged them to do.
Apple failed to allow users the right to decide for themselves. Apple failed to provide informed consent.
Yes, Clueless Cook FAILED Apple, AGAIN …
Since when do consumers not know by now that all devices degrade in time? It’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise or expect new performance in perpetuity. Batteries and displays have long since been known not to maintain the same performance as the day they were bought. How can ANY computer manufacturer sell their goods at all if they must maintain some kind of perfect performance on all electronic devices for years on end? I once got screwed after a 60” Sony LCD display I got to replace another defective Sony model failed after 17 months on a 12 month warranty and at the time I couldn’t buy an extended warranty from Sony. They would not hear of dealing with this honorably. This is way more egregious.
You know better than this. It not the battery degradation that sets people off, it’s the cover up!
Apple never informed their customers. Informed consent is the essence of fairness and good conduct.
it is not slowed down, this is the core of outrage, it is throttled back under certain processes depending on the condition of the battery. a brand new iphone is throttled with certain apps or situations also. calling it slowed down is a way of justifying outrage over nothing.
Any success is this type of litigation will depend on the proving of two arguments:
1. Were Apple’s actions (intentionally) taken to cause customers to replace their iPhones with newer models and,
2. Did Apples’s customers replace their phones because they were denied access to information about the state of their batteries.
Obviously proving the second premise will be easier than the first. It should be noted that Apple’s intent over the first point will be crucial in determining an outcome in plaintiffs favour or not.
Moving away from the legalities or otherwise of these cases if Apple had’ve been upfront about the batteries and their actions in relation to the iPhones then this whole mess would never have happened. Either way it’s an “own-goal” for Apple and at the very least a public relations disaster.
Telstar,
I’m not sure how you can be so sure that it will be easy to prove the second premise. I personally replaced my iPhone 5 because of the unexpected shutdown problem that became critical after I made the mistake of taking repeated walks on cold mornings with the phone in my pocket. If Apple had installed the fix before the 6s came out, I would still have that phone because I preferred its size. The fact that it leveled out peak usage would not have been a deal-killer. Not being able to rely on it in an emergency was.
I suspect that there are at least as many people like me who replaced (or would have replaced) our phones because they became unreliable as the batteries aged as there were people who replaced their phones because they had degraded peak performance as the batteries aged.
All the usual anti-Apple suspects in the media are acting as if the choice was between a reliable phone that ran for less time on a charge and a reliable phone that ran slower to extend the charge. That is untrue. The choice was between an unreliable phone and one with performance that degraded gracefully.
I might add that both groups could have solved our respective problems just by replacing the tired battery!
Right, but Apple knew exactly what they were doing and the exact consequence of their actions.
The user knows batteries degrade in time, but a software designed slowdown? I would expect it to not hold a charge, maybe shutdown, but a covert bandaid instead of a real solution?
The only possible “complete solution” was to prompt the user to replace the battery. If Apple had done that, everybody would have been complaining and suing because it wasn’t free.
I was with you until the end. But even there, what is a reasonable expectation of warranty? Perhaps as long as the typical contract? Maybe? If too short, there would be grounds to sue.
I’m with you. Everyone is trying g to believe Apples apologies
I’ve always suspected a software slowdown when you upgrade
To the new iOS. My battery may have been old o. My 6 plus but the phone was snappy until the upgrade to iOS 11 now is like to convince myself it was more demanding software and if I wanted those features on an old phone I live with the slowdowns. But I also suspected Apple throttle the processor to make you want a new phone. It’s the timing. So to find out they did actually throttle the phone makes me call bs on their reasoning and concern
Just assume they wanted you to suffer slow speeds because they did.
Trust takes a lifetime to build yet only a moment to destroy.
Or something like that.
Hey I like that other post if 100 things Apple is slipping with. I could add 100 more. Cmon Apple. Wtf are 15000 employees doing all day?
exactly how would you quantify the damages under no.2 in your remark
No amount of fanboy angst and anxiety is going to prevent these cases to go to trial. Apple’s international embarrassment is going to continue. You can thank Tim Cook for all this. Tim Cook approved it and Tim Cook will have to answer for it.
Yes indeed, a well deserved “international embarrassment” is yet another chapter for inept Apple under Clueless Cook leadership.
I bought the new model SE unlocked and fully loaded from Apple direct on debut day March 31, 2016. Since I don’t need to charge my phone daily, doubt I even reached 500 battery charge cycles.
Even if I did max out the battery cycles, Apple slowing down my performance on a 21-month iPhone is seriously pitiful and unacceptable.
So Apple, this raises the question of just how good you are at making batteries.
It naturally follows that you knew the battery problem in advance and then go on to issue software updates to even out performance of phones 21 months old and older. That’s three months shy of two years, wow. Your batteries are that bad?
So, it naturally follows to ask if the batteries in the X are the same build as my SE or a superior build. If the same build, will Apple be issuing software slowdown updates after 21 months? Think about that future X customers.
I don’t buy the Apple Apologist surrogates line out there, and here, with holier than thou proclamations stating Apple’s good intentions to improve and even out performance on older iPhones. 21 months is the NEW OLD, for chrissake! Think about that.
Before Apple was caught red handed in Batterygate, or is it Slowdowngate, they knew what they were doing. My take mixed with facts, cynicism and sarcasm follows what I suspect went down, or not.
How do we get to the FIRST Trillion dollar company? Easy. Sell more iPhones!
Our new iOS updates are helping 21-month old iPhones and older by evening out battery performance and we feel really good about our efforts to help our customers.
Just don’t tell them in advance. We kept this quiet as we issue unsuspecting software updates, quite possibly the decreased older iPhone performance will eventually lead to customers admitting, yeah, I have old tech, it’s worn out and doesn’t last, so time for a new iPhone. Apple bankers, a collective hearty WooHoo!
Seriously, all Apple should have done responsibly is admitting (transparency) UP FRONT on the quality of battery life in older phones and how new software upgrades degrade that performance. Offer the $29 battery upgrades at the same time and EXPLAIN IN FULL to the customer exactly what is going down. Simple, customer service 101!
It is painful to realize Apple is NOW degrading PERFORMANCE of my 21 month old state of the art small form factor iPhone. Much like the cheap charging cables that fray and wear out in a year or two.
Fingers crossed the plaintiffs win this one …
I notice that your “screed” does not contain any claim that Apple is, in fact as opposed to supposition, slowing down your 21-month-old SE. Have you actually run GeekBench or are you just indulging a fantasy that Tim Cook is out to get you personally? Before this story broke, had you noticed any degradation in real-world performance that was not attributable to other factors, like obsolescent apps or overfull storage?
If someone were embezzling hundredths of pennies from each and every bank transaction, and no one noticed, would it no longer be a crime?
any other conspiracies you would care to share, clearly you hold deeply held personal animus toward tim cook
Yes, my animus for years has always been Cook is clueless and needs to be replaced. You must be new around here …
Who said liberals and conservatives can’t agree on some things..?
Amen …
So Goeb, why do you waste your time on an Apple fanboy site when you don’t approve of the company or its leader? or are you paid to be here?
You’re not Botty!
You nailed it! Thanks.
Anyone that responds to me under FAKE circumstances does not DESERVE the dignity of a response … 🍾🎉
My car battery doesn’t conserve it’s energy as it degrades, but just fails to start the car one day. This is my maintenance fault, not the car manufacturer’s fault.
If Apple made your car you wouldn’t be able to achieve 25 mph if your battery was unable to hold a decent charge. Plus you would have to purchase proprietary tools just to remove the battery from the engine compartment. And Apple would have never told you all this was going to happen.
omg your remarks get more & more irrational, ludicrous
Actually, Fred, that is exactly what happened when my old car developed a faulty engine sensor. The onboard computer threw it into “limp home mode” so that I could not shift out of first gear or drive faster than 25 mph. I had to purchase a new part from Acura/Honda to replace the old sensor, and I could not perform the fix myself without purchasing proprietary tools and attending shop class.
Honda never told me that all this was going to happen. It took a significant online search for me even to discover that “limp home mode” existed—a rather more extensive search, incidentally, than was required to figure out that Apple was load-leveling.
But you knew this was expected in advance. You had informed consent that this was what would happen and you decided that this was acceptable when you purchased your vehicle.
so you were told iphone battery would last forever, and you didn’t know what to do, lame argument
What part of “Honda never told me” did you not understand? I had never even heard of “limp home mode” until it happened to me, and it took some research to find it even then. I absolutely would have given my consent if I had been informed (just as I absolutely would have consented to Apple’s solution for unexpected shutdowns), but I wasn’t. In both cases, the company did it without my informed consent.
So, I have a two-year-old iPhone that doesn’t shut down unexpectedly and I sold a 10-year-old working automobile rather than one that had been destroyed by driving at high speeds with a bad transmission sensor.
I don’t know much, but seems to me if Apple had done the Right Thing®, there would be no issue at all.
Apple did the right thing, batteries will degrade, common sense, whiners feel slighted over every little thing good or bad
The point of the lawsuits maintains Apple did not do the right thing. I agree …
MDN, Ambulance Chaseres? Wow, pathetic fanboysandgirls you are. I am ripped apart by this scandal and will seriously reconsider my next Apple purchase. Bend over consumers and simply take it. Not cool Apple, not cool.
Real World Case (mine) – This past Summer (before iOS 11 came out) my iPhone 6 began exhibiting the random shutdown issue. Sometimes the battery meter would show 65% and then boom, phone would shut down. I’m not a neophyte, I know performance degrades with time and software updates – new capabilities use more resources. I used the heck out of the phone since I bought it (preordered it when preorders started) and had gotten nearly 3 years out of it.
Fast forward to September – when the new phones lineup was announced I was less than impressed – the screen size of the ‘X’ is a little smaller, area-wise than I would have liked (I’ve wished I’d gotten the plus size since my Dad got his 6 Plus on its release). The 8 and 8 Plus are so similar in design to the 6, 6S etc. Given these choices I’d have preferred to hold onto the 6 for another year then get the larger ‘X’ type phone next year (if one is released).
I knew the battery was shot in my 6 but didn’t bother replacing it because…bing bing bing…the performance of the phone was crap at this point. Had I known that performance was being throttled because of the battery and that replacing the battery would improve it, I would have done the $79 battery replacement instead of buying a new phone. Don’t get me wrong, I do like my 8 Plus but my decision to buy was completely informed by the random shutdowns and shitty performance of my iPhone 6.
For the record, I don’t run benchmark apps or edit video on my phone – even mundane things like launching apps became ridiculously slow. Scrolling in Safari, ads sometimes would damn near freeze the phone. Limiting ‘peak processor’ affects more than just high end tasks.
Had Apple made this information public, with the option of switching it on or off, of course I’d have switched it on – phones shutting down willy nilly can’t happen. I don’t have a problem with the fix. Had I known a new battery would have improved performance to a useable level, however, I would have replaced the battery instead of purchasing a new phone.
I think this is the crux of the matter.
For the record, when I said less than impressed, I was talking about screen size of the iPhone X. I do really like the improved specs and new tech. My bad eyes just want more screen area – ala the Plus size display.
Well put, all the way around.
Now regarding these cases, if you had issues, what would a neophyte or non-technical user think? And they are the vast majority of Apple users.
This is why we have courts.
I find it strange that you knew the battery was shot, performance was dog slow and the phone had random shutdowns. You say you would have preferred to keep your iPhone 6, but didn’t seek any advice from a service agent. I must be getting old because I have always tried to have all my Apple devices repaired if I can before disposing of them. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but to blame Apple for your decision not to get your iPhone looked at before upgrading seems ridiculous to me. Today’s entitled society never take responsibility for for anything.
With respect, I don’t buy your story. It sounds like you know about battery degradation and your phone had good usage over the 3 years. Yet you assumed that somehow the slow down and shut offs were related to degradation in the electronics, rather than just an old battery and THAT is why you grudgingly had to buy a new phone. I am sure that is how the class action lawyers will try to frame this.
However I think even a neophyte lawyer for Apple would have a field day with your testimony, given what you have written. EVERY electronic device ever made developing intermittent problems or having worsening in performance would FIRST get a battery replacement by any tech repair shop, rather than assume that the electronics were somehow ‘worn out’ and not repairable… but you know that.
I had an iPod that slowed down due to battery wearing out. Did I get mad, and buy a new unit. No, I liked what I had, so I replaced the battery. Didn’t those who bought a new phone troubleshoot, or were they using this as an excuse to get a new phone, and now sue because of their haste. Battery in car dies-get a new car?? No, replace the battery.
Exactly. It is painful to read some of the griping by those who absolutely know that they should have just taken the phone in and had a battery replaced.
Of course the battery should have been replaced, but the interim fix masked the problem.
Re” MDN take…”Proof” is not necessarily required to win a lawsuit.
All that’s necessary is to convince a judge, or jury, of your assertions.
Usually in the form of “proof”.