Former Apple CEO Sculley claims iPhone manufacturing in U.S. is not practical

“Former Apple CEO John Sculley does not think iPhone manufacturing within the U.S. is practical at this time,” Giovanni Bruno reports for TheStreet.

Bruno reports, “‘The only practical way to make iPhone’s, or other products like that in the U.S., is you’ve got to be able to manage the supply chain effectively,’ Sculley told the FOX Business Network’s Stuart Varney. ‘Many of these components are being made in Mexico. So we’ve got to figure out how to get the components in the supply chain to the U.S. so they can be assembled and that requires a lot of these border tax issues.'”

Read more in the full article here.

MacDailyNews Take: Ah, the the unprepared sugared water salesbozo, John Sculley. Apple’s worst CEO ever.

SEE ALSO:
Apple iPhone production in the U.S.is actually straightforward and not expensive – November 24, 2016
President-elect Trump tells Apple CEO Tim Cook that he’d like to see Apple make products in the U.S. – November 23, 2016
Could President Trump be the catalyst for an all-American iPhone? – November 18, 2016
Apple could make iPhones in the U.S.A. under President Trump, sources say – November 17, 2016
John Sculley: Apple TV will be the company’s most revolutionary product (as if he knows anything) – September 1, 2015
John Sculley: Forcing Steve Jobs out of Apple was a mistake – April 18, 2014
Failed Apple CEO John Sculley: If I were Samsung, I would tap Ron Johnson – April 10, 2013
If John Sculley says Apple must do this then Apple probably shouldn’t – January 17, 2013
Former Apple CEO Sculley gives his take on Steve Jobs – January 13, 2012
John Sculley: I wish I told Steve Jobs ‘This is your company, let’s figure out how you can come back and be CEO’ – Septemeber 13, 2011
Steve Jobs steps down the first time: The 1985 press coverage – August 26, 2011
John Sculley: Apple’s big mistake was hiring me as CEO – October 14, 2010
Sculley: Uh, maybe I shouldn’t have fired Steve Jobs – June 7, 2010

63 Comments

  1. He’s right.

    Steve Jobs: “Those jobs aren’t coming back.”

    Trump: worst US citizen of all time. Makes Nixon look like Lincoln. W look like Kennedy.

    Republicans: Lowlives, guns, and money.

    Really sick times. As Steve said, “no longer about conservative and liberal. It’s about constructive vs. destructive. Trump/Bannon: Mission to Destroy.

    Domino effect. We all go down.

    1. Completely un-called for and ugly. I believe you are speaking about something you really have not spent much time investigating, or you have an awful problem of overgeneralizing.

      I also believe that this forum, AND you (on better days) are better than this.

        1. And he is pretty good! Advanced rhetoric. Crushing logic. Analogies galore. Provokes detailed rebuttals but won’t get them from lazy, complacent guys who are convinced they’ve won it all, game over.

            1. Boys, must I always include a sarcasm tag? Thought you were a bit brighter than the fireflies I’m watching tonight through the mist of a Grasshopper and the dulcet tones of Sinatra

      1. He’s no different than the far right crowd on this website. Two peas in a pod.

        This forum is not better than that. The way he and others on these pages choose to express themselves is explicitly permitted by the editors/management of this website. It’s condoned and encouraged all in the name of clicks and revenue.

        Your high and mighty routine is pretty sad.

        1. “He’s no different than the far right crowd on this website. Two peas in a pod.”

          You could not be more wrong. Liberals and Democrats are angry and full of hate, especially now, with President Trump in Washington.

          That post was truly UGLY, stereotypical, guilt by association, zero tolerance and full of HATE. From the so called enlightened and tolerant citizens — 🐂💩! I can’t believe you are defending the indefensible. 🤔

          No facts (all denigrating opinion) and the death of common sense and no semblance of fairness.

          To say both ends of the political spectrum are exactly the same is just WRONG …

          1. Greed and incompetence. They used to exist at opposite ends of the spectrum but now the right is incompetent too.

            The entire mainstream hates incompetence. Why do the political hacks here feel the need to make excuses for it?

            1. Equally corrupt, yes. Equally evil, no. Only one party has stooped low enough to collaborate with russian spy agencies and foreign entities to spread propaganda and lies to swing an election. On top of decades of gerrymandered voting districts.

              One party seems interested in justice for all the other yells Me First like a schoolyard bully. In general, Democrats won world wars they did not start and preferred diplomatic solutions where possible. Republicans have always meddled in foreign affairs. Mexican War, Spanish American war, Korea, Guatamala, Iraq, Afghanistan, … Even Vietnam was pushed hard by the paranoid right wing, despite being essentially started by Kennedy. Republicans are always paranoid and always eager to mire the nation into military debt that neither party ever pays off. Oh wait, except a man who would be labeled a RINO today (Eisenhower) paid off WW2 with high income taxes, and Clinton balanced the budget via wiser military spending. Peace paid dividends back then. Trump just proposed $58 billion more military spending and we haven’t even gotten out of the Middle East yet. When will America bleed itself dry?

              War or peace. That’s the historical difference between the parties.

            2. No, both parties are evil and corrupt at times.

              Roosevelt got us into WWII in 1941 and Truman as president made the decision to drop the atom bomb on Japan. Both are Democrats. And so was Johnson during the Vietnam war. Your trying to make the case Democrats are morally superior in war time and I don’t buy it and heck, believe what you will.

              Regarding the election you seem to suffer from a selective memory and forget the media Democrats, Hollywood, over a billion of Democrat dollars (all-time record) were working 24/7 to defeat Trump and help Hillary.

              I don’t read anywhere you have a problem with that or the more egregious HRC campaign collaborating with CNN to provide debate questions exclusively in advance and the DNC collaborating with the same campaign to SINK Sanders. So your selective outrage is non-existent when it helps your candidate and only applies to the candidate from the opposing team. Got it.

              Regarding the Russians as a campaign influence is a red herring. There are millions of influences like political ads, propaganda artists, biased money, PACS, special interest groups, unions — et al. — to INFLUENCE ELECTIONS. Dude, it happens every four years on BOTH SIDES, where have you been? … 🇺🇸

          2. Distraught people say distraught things. I feel for them, more than I become drunk on my own special schadenfreude. Your outrage may differ. In the end, reality needs no defense, and we are all in the same lifeboat. May it not end as Alfred Hitchcock had it.

            1. I understand distraught. Also, believe you are too kind. This has more to do with an unhinged HATEFUL partisan on the loose, post after post.

              Make sense to you, Vertigo? … 😊

            2. Of all the Hitchcock flicks my favourite was Marnie, probably because of the horse scene…

              And I think understand your own indignation…did you understand my allusion to Hitchcock’s Lifeboat? The consequences of deception in that one were more profound than in Vertigo, I thought…

            3. Agreed. “Lifeboat” leads the greater deception category. Mostly a one scene movie in a fatalistic grimy boat, but certainly Hitch made a masterpiece in the sense you mentioned. Similar minimalist production success with Rope.

              I prefer Vertigo for stylish flourishes and classic urban/rural scenery, cars, architecture, fashion, et al. Tippy standing under the Golden Gate Bridge is one of the most iconic movie scenes of all time. Let’s not forget the redwoods: simply magnificent.

              Recall you are a horse aficionado, so no surprise you prefer Marnie. Venture a guess the fox hunt scene was the greatest ever filmed. When Forio threw Tippy into the air, classic. Another great scene is Sean in the boat hotel room pointing his finger after a seductive lead up and suddenly shouts, “red!” Definitely in my top Hitch Five.

              Another is Hitch’s one and only comedy, The Trouble With Harry. The brightest, rural scenic and most painterly dark comedy EVER, brought to light. From dark to light, simply genius … 🐎

        2. So you agree on some points and disagree on others but still feel the need to insult me.

          I like to think of it as taking the high road not being high and mighty. In the future I will remember just to crap on people. That usually works really well.

    2. Wow, you are a moron. So it’s only Republicans that are morons. No Dems are. They want a piece of the rich guys pie but not have to work for it because the rich guy should not have so much money for himself, he should give some of it to the super low life Libs/Dems. Yeah, we love guns and money. We work for our money and use guns for hunting because we can afford it because we work and want to enjoy our money.

    3. auramac, Steve did say that, but he was not always right. In this case, Steve was right in one context (the old manufacturing jobs are not coming back, nor in the large numbers of previous decades), but not in the context of modern, highly automated assembly and 3-D printing that will require less touch labor.

      In the case of iPhones, the component supply chain is, indeed, one of the key issues, especially in these days of JIT inventory. Sculley may have been a terrible CEO for Apple, but that does not make him wrong in this case.

      As for the rest of your post – the political hate and stereotyping – I don’t like it. We have far too much of that on this forum already, and hate and extremism from one side simply encourages the growth of hate and extremism in the opposing direction. In that scenario, no one wins and no one is willing to compromise. Balance is achieved, but in the worst possible way for this country.

      Those who know me on this forum understand that I dislike and distrust Trump. I have also been highly critical of some GOP policies and politicians over the past couple of decades. Hopefully, they also recognize that I have issues with some Democratic policies and politicians, as well. I vastly prefer a moderate approach over the more extremist leanings in either direction, and neither party “speaks” for me in any meaningful way.

      I am asking both Democrats and Republicans to refrain from partisan attacks on this forum. Look for common ground and I suspect that you will find some. The spirit of compromise will grow from that beginning.

  2. The only real practical thing from that fifth rate nation is war. They’ve been doing it since day one and the vast majority of their history has been at war. Peace certainly isn’t practical for them, in fact, it’s threat.

    1. I don’t care to dispute you any more, as you have the facts on your side and I weary of trying to justify genocide and murder in the name of nationalism. My forebears on the Isles had that aplenty—the Irish Republican Army fought as fiercely and ruthlessly as any insurgents today—, and to my limited historical knowledge, so did most every other country that ever was, in every century. The few peaceful ones were plucked like ripe plums and consumed by invaders. I think this a large, pervasive thing: a species-spanning perversion of our basically beneficial social instinct into something ugly, something that today we call identity politics, always promoted by a few alpha males that have learnt to cleverly pit the masses of people one against the other, with slogans and pheromones, in order to make themselves kings. These few twisted, self-absorbed individuals always rise like scum to the surface to pollute life for the vast majority of people who simply want to get on in life.

      1. Herself, that is one of the most impressive posts that I have ever read on this forum. You really captured the essence of the problem when you described a “…species-spanning perversion of our basically beneficial social instinct into something ugly…”.

        Truly insightful and all too accurate.

      2. Hello Herself,

        It’s more than the facts darling, it’s the attitude as well, the morality and ethics that even a child can comprehend. This is simply the growing pain of global evolution. Those who ready, willing and able are calm of spirit and will pass through this and continue to soar onwards. Those that don’t well they’ll try to spoil the party and build a big wall around their so precious place, and a fortress around their hearts.

        It’s pervasive when you crowd people like this (see Calhoun’s behavioral sink), something that’s been getting more and more apparent since the industrial age.

        So you can stay there, on the other side of your feathered wall and continue to embrace the hatred, the fear, the paranoia, the masturbating media and your weaponry, ah yes, the so precious weaponry as so many do already. Just look at all the innocent bodies it can kill, with the bonus feature that it works on women and children too.

        Alternatively you can leave it all behind and walk to the light of hope and peace of the free and civilized world. Like Germany in 1938, there never has been a better time to become a refugee from your country. The exodus is growing in popularity every day. Rest assured there doctors will be standing by at the border ready to remove the stars and skid marks and clear your feeling passages.

        1. Unfortunately, evolution doesn’t discourage predatory/parasitic survival strategies. It is up to moderate, rational, independent minded people to push both US parties toward delivering good governance instead of destructive party badge “accomplishments” that appeal to those of little understanding, empathy, or peaceful motivations in either party.

          1. You are right, it certainly does not, and I should have been precise in my terminology using progressive evolution to move forward, as predators tend to do, and retrogressive evolution as parasites tend to do.

            I think ab opposite proposal would be more elegant, having moderate, rational, independent minded and emotionally balanced people deliver good governance. That might work better for you.

        2. “Like Germany in 1938, there never has been a better time to become a refugee from your country.”

          The present day U.S. is not one atomic particle akin to Nazi Germany in WWII. That only exists in your deranged and delusional non-thinking.

          After reading numerous posts of your hatred for the U.S. over the years I only have one request: stay out. We like it here …

          1. You got that right GoeB, Germany never detonated any nuclear bombs on civilian populations nor did they circumvent the Geneva convention. Plus of course the Declaration of Human Rights wasn’t around back then so they weren’t being hypocrites when they tortured.

            I don’t hate your country, I’m not from a nation that tortures people, your nation is, I’m not from a nation that disregards the sovereignty of other nations and invades others on a whim, you are. I’m not from a nation that has the majority of their history at war, but you are.

            What irony, your request, to stay out. All I can say to that is you first, leave and stay out of the business of invading other nations to satisfy your war mongering addiction. Then maybe then I’ll consider your request.

            1. OK, one time I’ll take the bait to engage your myriad and numerous obsessional posts that always declare and brag my nation is better than your nation.

              “Plus of course the Declaration of Human Rights wasn’t around back then so they weren’t being hypocrites when they tortured.”

              Great to know you approve of Germany WWII torture and baking human beings in ovens just because a declaration paper did not exist and they wonderfully avoided being called hypocrites. How PC and humane of you.

              “I don’t hate your country, … ”

              No matter how many times you have posted the same, over and over, no one in their right mind believes it. Got it? Sink in yet? You fool NO ONE. 🐂💩 Dishonesty and deception does not work on everyone, mind you.

              “I’m not from a nation that tortures people, your nation is, I’m not from a nation that disregards the sovereignty of other nations and invades others on a whim, you are. I’m not from a nation that has the majority of their history at war, but you are.”

              I am from a nation that liberated millions of people from tyrants that persecuted and killed their own citizens and invaded other countries for centuries. I am from a nation that is leading the charge to eliminate ISIS that enjoys cutting heads off of live victims and burning innocent Christians alive in cages on camera. I am from a nation that keeps the world safe from those despots and dictators that would harm the world.

              That said, I am ashamed of my nation under Obummer who did nothing for the citizens in Aleppo.

              I don’t know if you are a Canuck or an Aussie and don’t really care. But it sounds like you are from a wuss socialist nation that does NOTHING and enjoys the freedoms my nation provides. Well, enjoy your hedonistic pursuits. It’s on us.

              “…stay out of the business of invading other nations to satisfy your war mongering addiction.”

              Your career posts here always misrepresent America as invaders and war mongers. News flash: We got it. But the addiction is YOU and certainly not true.

              Invading a country for theft, killing or hate of citizens that are of a different race or religion is one thing. Invading a country to free its citizens is quite another. Sorry to read you do not understand the moral difference. 🤔

              War! What is it good for? Absolutely SOMETHING! Say it again. War! What is it good for? Absolutely SOMETHING! Say it again … 🔫

            2. First you say that my posts always declare and brag that my nation is better than your nation and then you say that you know know which nation I come from nor that you care. I don’t mention my nation so I can’t be bragging that my nation is better than yours can I?

              I don’t approve approve of the Nazi torture during world war II, I”m just pointing out that they weren’t hypocrites about it that’s all. Anyone who tortures in this day and age is scum, and that includes the Nazis. Your nation just happens to be hypocritical scum because on the one hand you torture and you’ve signed the Declaration of Human rights, which specifically prohibits torture.

              About the hate, you can believe what you want, but it’s obvious that you cannot discern someone who hates, and someone who points out the hate. Your nation commits acts against humanity, that’s hateful. Someone like me who points out your hatred, does not necessarily hate, but by all means continue to believe your delusion as much as you want.

              You may indeed be from a nation that has liberated millions of people from tyrants, I’m not denying that. You are also from a nation that tortures people, denies justice, commits acts against humanity and has a majority of your history at war. Lipstick on a pig still makes it a pig.

              Oh you got the idea that you are invaders and war mongers, it’s not a misrepresentation, it’s a fact. Your nation has been at war for over 80% of it’s history and rising. Your last president spent his whole time in office while you’ve been at war.

              Your invasion of Iraq was not to free the people, it was to put an end to a weapons of mass destruction program, that turned out to be imaginary, well maybe imaginary, you are still looking for it and killing thousands of people in the process. Plus you thought Saddam Hussein had something to do with the second 9-11, again imaginary. It’s a feeble attempt to say at this point that you went to free citizens, unless of course you are trying to free those citizens from life. With the slaughter you’ve done over there it’s mission accomplished.

              You are right, war is absolutely good for nothing, probably why your nation is so addicted to it. It’s not a representation, the wars are facts and your nation has a long list of them under your belt, going back all the way to 1776.

              What a pitiful country you have become lost without a moral or ethical compass.

            3. “You are right, war is absolutely good for nothing.”

              Hey, brainless. You have a reading comprehension problem?

              Allow me to repost what you missed: “War! What is it good for? Absolutely SOyMETHING! Say it again. War! What is it good for? Absolutely SOMETHING! Say it again …”

              “SOMETHING,” sinking in yet?

              Look, you HATE the U.S. and we all know you claim to live in a superior nation and not shy about reminding us daily how much better you and your country are and how much worse the U.S. is as a nation. I wonder if our U.S. troops bailed out your sorry asses in a previous war?

              Proud citizen of the greatest country in the history of planet Earth. Too bad your not … 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

            4. No but you do. The lyrics for War are:

              War, huh, yeah
              What is it good for
              Absolutely nothing
              War, huh, yeah
              What is it good for
              Absolutely nothing
              Say it again, why’all

              What a dumbass you are, can’t even get the quote of a song right. You can’t even quote my lips right asshole, but one more time cause you are so thick.

              I don’t hate your country, you are barely worth the pity.
              I don’t claim to live in a superior country, just the free and civilized world, that’s a big difference that’s lost on you. I am citizen of a humble country, we don’t have a super inflated ego and we don’t go boasting how great our country is, like you do. You might be the greatest country in the history of planet Earth, but stench isn’t everything.

              What arrogance.

            5. In addition, it is always refreshing to be attacked by a Libtard who lost the argument based on facts. You can call me any name in the book, but if it makes you feel better and sleep better — please proceed.

              I don’t get how you equate “arrogance” with facts? Give you a pass licking your liberal wounds …

            6. A liberal, a socialist, gosh keep shooting you might hit something sooner or later though with your aim for Bin Laden hit Saddam Hussein guidance system that’s not likely to happen. The global peace index doesn’t list you as being great, actually below average but don’t let the facts bother you.

              I associate arrogance with your chest thumping “we are the greatest” attitude. It really depends on your parameter, but when it comes to being a terrorist nation, I agree you certainly are one of the greatest if not the greatest terrorists on planet earth. You leave the Nazis way behind in the dust.

              Keep blasting away, that’s what you do.

            7. “A liberal, a socialist, gosh keep shooting you might hit something sooner or later …”

              You did not deny it, so it is safe to assume I hit the Bulls eye. Hey, by all means express yourself freely and don’t couch or hide away from the obvious.

              “I associate arrogance with your chest thumping “we are the greatest” attitude.”

              Is that supposed to mean something? The word you missed is PRIDE.

              “…but when it comes to being a terrorist nation, I agree you certainly are one of the greatest if not the greatest terrorists on planet earth.”

              I never said the U.S. was a terrorist nation. Don’t put words in my mouth.

              ” You leave the Nazis way behind in the dust.”

              You sealed your own fate. The most unhinged inaccurate statement I have ever read on MDN. Congrats!

              But I have a tender side and do hope you get help soon to eliminate the irrational hatred and fear you have for the United States that you carry with you on a daily basis. Get well soon.

              Proud citizen of USA! USA! USA! … 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

            8. Oh heck I won’t deny your feeble attempts at calling me some derogatory name you can think of and hey are so many of them. Here’s the easy target for you to shoot off your hate on. I’m human, and your nation sure murders enough of us to illustrate how much you hate us, so go at it.

              Again you fail to discern concepts. Pride is something you can feel when others call you great. Arrogance is when you boast about yourself, calling yourself great, but you’ve illustrated so far that you have trouble distinguishing ideas.

              I’m not putting words in your mouth when I call your country a terrorist nation, it’s something I’m saying not you, you don’t even have the guts to admit that your country is a terrorist nation.

              You leave the Nazis way behind in the dust is a very accurate statement because it’s my opinion.

              I hope you eliminate your irrational fear and hatred you have of the world, something you carry with you with every innocent life you murder on a daily basis. Your nation has lots of blood on your hands, but hey, you are proud of it, like most terrorists are.

  3. This guy had not a clue while he was the CEO. Why in the name of the almighty, (cannot use God ya know these days) would anyone listen to what the has to say – you know – the colored sugar water guy. Dad gum I am sick of the 24/7 news compulsion.

  4. Why is it not practical? Is everything only about money? What about human beings and morally caring about one another in our own country? Apple has the ability, if led by someone who can multi-task, to change a entire town for workers. Apple actually should diversify manufacturing thru multiple places to allow more inventory to meet the demands of their new products, so the wait times of 4 weeks go away. It’s not like they don’t have the money. And lastly, since they have more cash than most, paying a American worker a nice salary goes a long way in my book.

    1. America used to be a country that could get things done if they put their mind to it. Maybe it’s no longer a country like that. It does seem that when it comes to military defense they can do quite a bit, though. However there’s not going to be any Manhattan-type Project to build iPhones or Macs. America will continue to build up national debt. That $20T deficit isn’t going away any time soon.

      For Apple to build products in the U.S. it really doesn’t seem economically feasible. They’ll certainly never be able to get Americans to work long hours like the Asian workers do. Americans really don’t seem motivated to excel at many things because maybe the need isn’t there. I suppose their mindset could be changed over time but that would likely have to start at childhood.

    2. The only job that all those useless americans should be training for is Robot Maintenance. Unless you are a super smart roboticist and you are designing them.. then you better learn how to fix and maintain them, because they will have ALL the useless american person jobs soon enough.

    3. aapl already employ’s tens of thousand employees in US of A. These ex factory towns need to be bulldozed out of existence. They are a negative asset. Many residence would not pass a drug test.

      The bottom line is that these negative asset towns don’t believe in change and adapt to the changing workforce needs.

      1. Actually not a bad plan to have negative growth in some areas. Nondevelopment and increase in natural reserves can be a good thing. Question is, what are your parameters to decide what towns are not worth keeping? Are you certain your hometown could pass my test? And doesn’t the Constitution give Americans the right to be lazy, uneconomical unhealthy undereducated slobs if they so choose? It’s those darn liberals who ruin everything by proposing that if we pool our money, everyone could at least have a decent standard of health, education, and infrastructure in every town. Pretty much what wacko liberals like Washington, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and Eisenhower stood for. Still the question of how we pay for societal costs remains a real debate of our time. But it sounds like one question is answered: How many children will Trump leave behind? All of them who are not born in the right location with the right wealth and the right religion, upwind of the coal burner.

        1. What I meant that these towns have no prospects to be economically viable at the moment. The people who want a economic future need to move to the metro for opportunities. A lot of these folks refuse to do and as a result stagnate and get angrier at others for their failures. That is how the undocumented immigrants fill in the gaps in the metro by picking up the slack for employer needs and don’t hesitate to be mobile. It’s not the fault of the liberal elites that these communities are in disrepair.

          In contrast in the state of Minnesota. Many folks in rural MN moved to the metro for opportunity. Once financially established, they never forgot their roots. They bought second homes/cabins on the lakes for vocations and weekend trips fueling the local economies. Their children are exposed to their parents upbringing which is inherited via generations. As a result, the divide between metro and rural is far less than other states.

        2. I agree the parameters for removal are open to interpretation. And politics, let’s be real.

          “It’s those darn liberals who ruin everything by proposing that if we pool our money, everyone could at least have a decent standard of health, education, and infrastructure in every town.”

          Pool our money? Wow. The alternative naive reality of forced tax and spend and zero accounting for results.

          And who benefits from this altruistic endeavor? U.S. spends more than twice on education than the rest of the G8 nations. The result of this pool of money? The lowest test scores for decades.

          I could go on with dozens of examples of WASTED POOL taxpayer money. But that would not matter to you given your idealism.

          Don’t drop the rose colored glasses on the floor before you get home.

          BTW BillsFan, do you know what the Bills stand for?

          Boy. I. Love. Losing. Super Bowls …

          1. You can always choose to be a cheerleader for whatever the strongest team is, I will continue my regional loyalty.

            Perhaps you were too busy pounding your chest to realize that America’s military might was paid for by my taxes and yours. That is how I feel it should be. If you want to go it alone Rambo style, then please give me my money back.

            1. Explain to me, if I did indeed pound my chest, how would that make me forget where my tax dollars go, hmmm?

              Condescension noted.

              So how are teachers unions doing in your part of the planet? I would ask about the students first and foremost, except the sad reality is after all the lip service they no longer matter …

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