“Apple CEO Tim Cook is speaking out about the massacre at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in South Carolina, saying more must be done to eradicate racism,” Charles Riley reports for CNNMoney.
“My thoughts are with the victim’s families in SC. Let us honor their lives by eradicating racism & removing the symbols & words that feed it,” Cook said Sunday on Twitter,” Riley reports. “Most Twitter users interpreted Cook’s words as a call to remove the Confederate battle flag from the South Carolina Capitol. Taking down the flag has become a rallying cry for activists in the wake of the racially-motivated shooting that ended the lives of nine church members.”
My thoughts are with the victim's families in SC.Let us honor their lives by eradicating racism & removing the symbols & words that feed it.
— Tim Cook (@tim_cook) June 21, 2015
“Cook wasn’t the only tech CEO asking for the flag’s removal,” Riley reports. “Marc Benioff, the CEO of Salesforce.com, endorsed a message from former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney that advocated removing the Confederate flag.”
I agree @MittRomney: Take down the #ConfederateFlag at the SC Capitol. To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred. Remove to honor victims.
— Marc Benioff (@Benioff) June 20, 2015
Read more in the full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Here’s an idea: How about we also have doctors stop handing out psychotropic drugs like candy?
You lost the war 150 years ago, lose the flag already.
When is Tim Cook going to just shut up already. Jesus christ you’re not that important Tim. Vladimir Putin, Stephen Harper, Obama and every other leader in politics could give a crap what you think. They have THEIR agends Tim, not yours. You are not part of it. It is not your world.
Yes, it’s good when private enterprise pressures government but Cook just shoots off his liehole like a singular martyr. It’s stupid because his words and actions associate with Apple the brand. I don’t want to think about Apple and racism in the same sentence. It’s negative stuff.
Tim, how about you focus on your fuxking job like not botching product launches, creating new shxt people actually need and want, and focusing on the future.
Juat another reason I don’t support Cook as CEO. He has no vision, isn’t a product guy, and is too swept up in his own narcissitic bullshxt.
Tim Cook is the leader of the biggest company in the world, so he is pretty damn important.
If he were out there championing right-wing conservative causes you would be all for it. You’re just pissed because he’s advocating things you don’t happen to like.
Talk is cheap Tim…
It’s pretty damn easy to ask people to remove “flags”, how about You (Tim) remove every song in the iTunes catalogue that says the “N-Word”. Not happening in this lifetime!!!
(Cue the “Apple Can Do No Wrong” supporters trying to rationalize that “it’s not the same thing…”)
Using the N-Word is a “symbol” of Racism. However, “certain people” get a pass on using it.
“it’s ok for us to use it, but not you. If you use it, THAT’S RACIST!”
It’s illogical and incongruent.
I’m pro Apple, but Sir, yours is a very interesting and valid point.
I’M PRO APPLE!
I just don’t give them a pass on everything. No blinders here…
Keep talking. We see who the rightwing racists are amongst us.
Most people would agree that racists are very narrow minded.
And yet, here you are suggesting that all “right wingers” are racists.
Sounds pretty narrow minded.
so all right wingers are racist? that must mean that everybody that is not right wing is not racist. Have I got that right?
brilliant!
not all right wingers are
stupid or racist but the loudest
ones seem to be. I have no racist friends and never will but some of my friend are
definitely right wing conservative.
We also see who the left wing irrational and unthinking hypocrites are.
This is an interesting anomaly, and not unique to America. The infamous ‘N’ word is a racial slur in all cases EXCEPT when used within the black community. As inconsistent and as illogical (and incongruent) as it is, that is the reality.
With respect to the confederate flag, I’m not an American, so I won’t even pretend to understand what it means to those in the South who fly it. However, it is very clear that within the Southern community, there is a large group of people who are offended by it. These people are no foreigners; they are members of that Southern community. Most of them happen to have darker skin colour. So, if a flag that is offensive to a large percentage of local population (in other words, not just 10 or 15%, but quite a bit more), then one must ask oneself how does one justify officially offending such a high percentage of population.
“Let us honor their lives by eradicating racism & removing the symbols & words that feed it.”
One of those symbols is the N-Word. If we are to erase the symbols, they should be erased equally, not selectively.
I’m for freedom of speech no matter how offensive. I think we should not erase the N-Word and we should not take down the flag.
The problem is not the word or the flag. The problem is the hatred behind the word or the flag (when there is hatred)
If black people insist hatred is not behind the N-Word when they use it, then southerners should be able to insist that hatred is not behind their reasons for flying the flag.
It’s a simple as that…
Nonsense.
Intelligent and thoughtful people refute claims with fact or sound reasoning…
…then there is you and your kind.
Not quite symmetrical.
There’s no doubt that majority of those for whom the flag has positive meaning have no racist feelings against anyone. When they fly the flag, it means something special to them.
There is nobody in that same group who uses the ‘N’ word without its racial slur meaning. The only persons who do not have the offensive intent while using the word are the persons of colour. As discussed earlier, this is a weird anomaly, but anomaly it is.
Regarding the flag, it is not about what majority of Southerners feel about it; there may well be close to zero % of them who are racist and consider it the symbol of that. Unfortunately, this doesn’t matter if the flag is offensive to the population of colour. The rest of the Southerners can claim as much as they possibly can that the flag doesn’t represent slavery; when one out of three people considers it offensive, then that’s that.
The origins of the n-Word are racist. Therefore it is a symbol of racism. I get that some have rationalized black people have carte blanch and therefore it’s acceptable for them to use. It’s illogical! Repetitious use of that word makes me wonder why – if black people want to move on – why they can’t stop using that word?! LET IT GO!
Let me put a twist on this topic:
If black people started flying that flag, would someone defend them?
If yes, why? If not, you’re likely thinking ‘why would they?!’ It’s the same with the n-word. Why would they!?
But they do…
Tim Cook is idealistic in that he wants it to be erased – I thing most good-hearted people do. But you can’t force people. Forcing doesn’t change the heart. Change has to come from within.
If you want to be seen differently, thought of differently, spoken of differently, treated differently, that has to come from within. That change can’t be legislated, forced, compelled, or required.
Some people just can’t let it go…
There is nothing new under the sun, hatred and disrespect of our fellow man is only going to get worse…
Peace!
Laugh a little more!
Don’t be offended by everything!
Predrag, the key word in your post is “offensive/offended.”
Once the court rules with that notion in mind, you might as well stick a fork in it because we are in for a ridiculous ride. It’s a given, “freedom of speech” means someone will be hurt/bothered by someone’s speech sometime in their life. Sometimes the words are reasonable–sometimes unreasonable, but I think we’re talking courtesy/politeness/consideration vs something to control with laws.
This issue isn’t about freedom of speech. That is sacred and well protected by the American constitution.
We’re talking about State government building flying a flag that is offensive to one third of population. If it were at somebody’s house, we would be talking about first amendment rights. But it is not, so this doesn’t apply.
If offensiveness were truly the issue, then state governments wouldn’t sanction fake homo marriage. If they can do that, then they can fly any flag they damn well please.
This Confederate flag obsession is YET ANOTHER item on every liberal’s list of things they insist on meddling with.
What is it about left-wingers that CAN’T JUST LEAVE PEOPLE THE HELL ALONE?
And where in the bloody hell did they ever get the preposterous idea that they’re in charge of everyone else?
Our culture seems to mix unrelated things when coming to a conclusion, or making a “judgement?” What does being pro Apple have to do with any of this? Can you say unreasonable bias?
Catch-22: 99% certain the only songs in the catalogue that use the n-word, have a black person saying it.
Remove those songs, and then they’ll complain Apple is censoring the black community.
““it’s ok for us to use it, but not you. If you use it, THAT’S RACIST!””
Yes, it’s a double standard. Reality sucks.
Regardless of the debate regarding the offensive nature of the ‘N’ word (depending on who utters it and to whom), the two examples (flag on the state building, and songs on iTunes) are fundamentally different.
Apple pulling out songs just because of the ‘N’ word could plausibly be in violation of the 1st amendment of the American constitution (free speech); because the words in the song may be offensive to someone may not be a valid reason to remove the song from the catalogue. However, the flag is on the official government building; 1st amendment does not apply, since government is not an individual enjoying those constitutional protections. It would be quite more difficult for a state government to defend their right to offend a large group of population (by flying a confederate flag).
You’ve got that backwards. The 1st Amendment only applies to the government’s control of speech.
Apple could remove from the iTunes Store every song with the N word or the word Fat or the word Homo or whatever. Apple is a company- they can sell what they want.
That’s stupid, and your racist nonsense has been addressed too many times.
Use of the N-word by somebody who fits into the demographic of those who yelled it while abusing or killing Black people is NOT a “symbol of racism” – it IS racism.
If you’re not Black and you use the N-word, you are contributing to the terrorist use of the word, since those who hear you don’t know if you’re going to back up the word with murder/abuse. If those who have been victimized by racists use it themselves to try to drive away some of its power, that is the opposite. Go read more about this if you still don’t understand.
Why do certain non-Black folks want SO much to use the N-word that they whine about it incessantly? That’s disturbing. That bullshit is only “logical” or a “good point” if you are completely ignorant of how systemic racism works. Educate yourself.
Down votes because racists are sad, or because others think I said it too harshly? OK. Badge of honor.
Well, it’s just not the same, Chase. You are comparing a state-sponsored symbol of racism (in the form of a flag at the statehouse) to individuals artistic expression in a private medium. You don’t have to use the word, nor listen to music that uses the word. You would, however, have to see the flag everyday if you were say, a state senator of South Carolina. That’s (one basic reason) why it’s not the same thing. Your argument is a false equivalency and straw-man. One might call it illogical as well.
Your issue is that using the N-word is a symbol of racism and that certain people get a pass. An entire oppressed race of people and your over here complaining about not being able to use the n-word? Whats wrong with you? I try not to even get in on these conversations but do you realize how you sound and what your complaining about. You need a reality check.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0acAzbUzcws – watch that maybe it will enlighten you.
Jooop:
Apple is not the biggest company in the world. But anyway, it’s no reason to get involved in politics politcally. Tim Cook could not have all of the facts like people in the police force and government who have such access to information. It comes off as unsophisticated and hasty posting a tweet like that.
Do I want to say that Vladimir Putin is a dangerous, imperialistic son of a bitxh? Yes. But do I know for certain that the west didn’t stage a coupe in Kiev? No. That’s the point. We just are not there and don’t have access to information.
Cook is jumping the gun here. How much of this was racism and how much of it was the result of mental illness and drugs? We don’t know guys. So Cook especially should shut up because he looks stupid and makes Apple look bad with negative associations.
Second. This is an AMERICAN problem in a way. I’m Canadian. Apple is an international brand. One has to temper their public rhetoric in the context of having a GLOBAL customer base and audience. For instance, Tim Cook is outspoken about gay rights but that has a negative impact on Apple’s business in Russia.
Tim Cook needs to focus on tech and let the many other people rally, make laws and policies regarding all of these issues. He and Apple can support causes and governments in a way that is more sophisticated and effective.
His public comments are bullshit and he needs to shut up.
Tim is championing right-wing conservative causes. Nice to see Tim supporting Republican ideals like removing racism and the confederate flag.
Last I looked, racism is a liberal, democratic ideal. Always has been in my book.
Steve Jobs mistake #1: John Sculley
Steve Jobs mistake #2: Tim Cook
Absolutely. Choosing people to run Apple at any point was clearly not one of Steve Jobs’s talents.
I have my complaints about Cook, but this situation was particularly foul. After the shooting all American flag were flown at half mast all over the state, with the exception of the confederate flag at the capitol which was left flying high. Truly repugnant sentiment being displayed.
I see you have no source. However, even if it did happen, you don’t understand the significance.
The Confederate flag on located on South Carolina State property was not lowered because it is padlocked in place, by South Carolina law. Someone need to cut down that 30′ pole and flag now!
What is the reason for it to be padlocked in place? Why bother passing a law causing it to be padlocked in place?
Down votes but no replies. Bravery in action.
The flagpole upon which the confederate flag is hoisted has no pulley for lowering it to half mast. Furthermore, lowering it that way would be giving it official significance it should not have. And to do so would require approval of both houses of the SC legislature. So this complaint, as promoted in the press, is just ill-informed piling on. The flag itself is an issue; its not flying at half staff really is not.
Why is this church shooting of particular note? In and of itself it was indeed an awful crime. But those left-wingers who wish to cynically exploit for political gain are going to have a tough time squaring off with the reality.
What group of people is responsible for more murders of blacks than anyone else?
Blacks are! BY FAR! It ain’t even close.
What group of people accounts for a mere 12% of the population, yet responsible for most of the violent crimes committed?
Blacks are! BY FAR! It ain’t even close.
What is the per capita-adjusted statistical likelihood of interracial crime? Are whites responsible for more such crimes, or are blacks?
Blacks are! BY FAR! It ain’t even close. Blacks are MANY more times more likely to victimize whites than vice versa.
Those who truly – TRULY – care about the violence of racism (and violence in general) cannot study the actual facts of the issue and come to any other conclusion than that BLACKS are the problem. Not whites.
1 white lunatic murders 9 blacks in one incident does not begin to compare to:
A) All of the WHITES murdered, raped, assaulted, and robbed by BLACKS.
B) All of the BLACKS murdered, raped, assaulted, and robbed by BLACKS.
Man, you suck. That is all.
Dftr — how about you try to express your points minus the spittle-spraying hatred.
Its still a part of history and the flag stands for other things. The whiners like to blame that it stands for for slavery, but most don’t! They always look at the white man for slavery, but the free black man had slaves as well in those days!
People had slaves! Quit being racist and trying to say that both ‘sides’ were in the wrong over slavery.
Any idea as to what the ratio of the slave owners races were? Did both groups of slave owners build ships and force people to leave Africa to come and work in the new world?
Who is Stephen Harper?
Why isn’t Jesus Christ that important?
Blaming the Confederate Flag for racism is at best naive. The flag is a symbol of politics. It is a symbol of rebellion to those who fly her. Because of the slave based economy of the antebellum south, leading into the civil war, it is associated with racial hatred by many, but I can assure you attacking it and getting rid of it will only make matters worse. It will be seen as yet another act of government tyranny to those for which it symbolizes freedom, states rights, and self determination.
We must also not forget that it is PROTECTED by the First Amendment of the Constitution. In addition, when I look upon that flag, to me it is a symbol of greatness. Slavery was a disease in America, and she gave up half a billion lives to abolish it. When I see the Confederate flag I remember that. 620,000 people did not die so those of us who don’t like something can push others around. They died to determine the future of a nation, a nation who’s ideal I hold in reverence and who’s citizenship I am honored to have.
Racism is a word that many toss around without even considering what it means anymore. It is founded on the concept of race. In order to get rid of racism, we must first get rid of the idea of race, and that has little or nothing to do with the Confederate Flag.
We must make people understand that there is no objective biological reality known as race. At best, race is a consensual cultural hallucination. The *idea* of race was established by human beings to socially differentiate themselves. It is a social construct, not a scientific entity. It is a delusion. It is not real.
It is a fallacy upon which over a century of racist thinking is predicated upon.
It began as primarily a method of expressing national origins. It was refined to use genetic vestigiality and phenotypic traits as a means of categorization. I.e. if your skin is brown, you’re a member of some race. Based on this “reasoning,” blue eyed people would be a race. Left handed people would be a race. Blonde people would be a race, and so on.
The idea of race became popular in the 1800s with progressives. The idea that the purity of the white race needed to be maintained supported by many intellectuals, including people like H.G. Wells and Margaret Sanger. The idea is called Eugenics. People still believe this. This is TRUE RACISM. You would be shocked at some of the luminary names that supported the goal of eugenics. The entire idea of birth control was championed by Sanger not as some feminist goal but as a means for controlling the population of the inferior races. PURE RACISM.
You think some embattled white cop who loses it in a black area and shoots a kid is racist. He is not and should not be the face of racism. He is the face of fear. If you want to see pure racism, look into the eyes of Margaret Sanger.
There is a word that is often used synonymously with race, but it doesn’t mean the same thing. This is ethnicity. When people ask what race I am as they strangely do sometimes, I say “Human.” When they persist in having me support their delusions I respond that I am American. It is the only ethnicity I know.
If we want to start eradicating racism, it must be made clear to children from an early age that there is no such thing as race, that science says there is no such thing as race, that only primitive minds and the ignorant still cling to the idea of race.
This will not be easy as many of even the most left wing social justice oriented liberals, let alone neo-Nazis etc., will hold on to the idea of race because there is power in it. For many it defines who they are. For some they are a race first, and an individual second. You take race from these people, (cough)Jessie Jackson(cough), and you not only yank the rug out from under racism, you take away their entire identity.
Here is the most brilliant essay on race and racism I have ever read. Don’t worry, it’s read aloud for you:
Superb explanation, Thelonious! I agree.
The only people who disagree, are people who thrive on the idea of race.
Interesting analysis except for one monstrous element of constitutional ignorance: Personal free speech and government speech are two completely different things (see SCOTUS decision on Texas license plates). When people demand the removal of the confederate battle flag from official government locations (such as it is outside the SC state capital) it is demand that their government stop officially sanctioning the kind of hatred of fellow mankind that flag has embodied since it was first sewn together. In the public realm, symbols are important, and it is long past time when the confederate battle flag was removed and expunged from any place in American government.
You’re absolutely right. I missed the fact that the flag is being flown by a government entity. I still believe, however, attacking that flag is a poor response to racism. Still you are absolutely correct.
Knowing that this is what people are focusing on after the SC killings just makes me shake my head though. As facts come out I suspect there will be a whole lot more wrong with that kid than the Confederate Flag.
I will say though that I do not see the flag as a symbol of hatred, as you indicate. Again, the flag was a symbol to the creators not of their racial superiority but of their freedom and liberty. It symbolized rebellion.
Because of slavery being one of the factors that led to the civil war, we attribute racial hatred to the flag. I just look at it and see history. It doesn’t personally bother me, even flying over a government institution, because I understand it.
And it flies beneath the American flag. Even beneath the flag of the state.
I accept that it is a point of contention for many and they should remove it from government offices. The government represents all people.
If someone flies it on their home though, or puts a bumper sticker on their car, that’s their right. I support that.
One of the greatest threats to mankind is NATIONALISM, which like racism is a collectivization belief that says that a person’s values are that of the state and other values are not tolerated. One of the symbols of a nationalistic state is its flag. Nationalism is another form of tribalism.
The time has come for mankind to not revel in their country but to revel in their membership in the human race. Leave small things like the amount of pigment in one’s skin out of it and look to their character.
Another evil is the political systems that discourage individuals from thinking for themselves; forcing them to take a point of view that they are right and the other side is wrong. A simplistic view is that “every issue has two sides.” In fact, many believe that every issue has a multiplicity of ‘sides’ and that hearing each other’s point of view and striving to understand them may give a more complete understanding of the entire issue being discussed. Political parties are another form of tribalism.
The time has come for mankind to educate themselves with the morals, virtues and qualities that free themselves from the ignorance of these qualities that allow mankind to progress.
You know, TM, I was raised in the South and was fed the Big Lie as a schoolchild that the Civil War was about states’ rights and not slavery. But even the most cursory review of writings and speeches by Southern leaders at the time makes clear that what white Southerns wanted was the right to keep slaves. For example, the vice president of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens, in his Cornerstone Speech in March 1861, asserted: “The new constitution [of the Confederacy] has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.”
Now, I could cite literally dozens of other quotes from Southern leaders in the late 1850s and early 1860s that essentially say the same thing. But here you have it, the second highest official of the Confederacy – not a liberal historian in the 21st Century – says it clearly and plainly: Slavery was the immediate cause of the war.
I can find quotes from incredible thinkers like Thomas Jefferson who basically say that blacks aren’t human and we need to direct more of them to figure out exactly what they are. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t an incredible thinker. Doesn’t mean he didn’t participate in designing a great country.
The question becomes, what is the big lie? History, as they say, is written by the victor. We seek to make the Civil War solely about American Slavery, but we know that it was not. The rift between the North and the South hinged upon slavery but there was a sense of us against them that echoes the situation in our country now.
In addition the industrial north looked upon the agrarian south and their massive supply of cheap labor with envy. All those people could be free building cities and railroads and so on for northern industrialists instead of being slaves in the south.
Race is big business in this country, and there are liberal race baiters and racial profiteers and professional racialists who are less eager to release it than true racists. I tend to prefer the racists. The stench is just not quite as bad.
Thank you TM.
Thelonious Mac,
I understand race is a meaningless word biologically speaking. We evolved in Africa, therefore we’re all of African descent. Yet the word exists and has sociological significance. Humans have an uncanny ability to distrust other humans that don’t belong to their particular group, be it ethnic, political, religious, etc. Flying the confederate flag on public land in a state that fought *for the side of slavery* is bound to be offensive to a large portion of the population of that state regardless of any other symbology the flag may hold. If you’re doing something that offends a large portion of the population for no good reason, the proper thing is to stop doing it. Flying that flag in South Carolina is about as offensive as flying a Nazi flag in the NYC metropolitan area on public land. Why do it?
Removing that flag would only seem like government tyranny if SC was forced to do it. If SC did it voluntarily because it’s the right thing to do then it wouldn’t be much of an issue. Sadly, that depends on politicians doing the right thing for moral reasons and not political reasons.
BTW, excellent video, I saved it. I’m a fan of Ayn Rand but find her views on capitalism a little too utopian, but that’s really off topic.
And the flag is gone and the SC governor did it voluntarily and not a peep about government tyranny.
We must abolish the idea race completely from our society. This includes many well meaning efforts as well and that’s going to be a hard pill to swallow.
If you tell people that we are going to make “special efforts” for you, you’re essentially telling them something is wrong with them.
If you tell people, “We see no reason you cannot succeed. If someone is blocking your freedom to try please point it out. If someone is blocking your opportunity, please point it out.”
We have to tell everyone that we are the same. As long as we cling to the trappings of racism, even the well intentioned trappings, there will be racism.
You consistently post very interesting and well argued posts.
On the subject at hand, I agree in principle that the idea of race should be abolished. Unfortunately, it is as idealistic as the struggle for world peace and eradication of all poverty.
It is most unfortunate that the issue of race continues to exist, not just in America, but throughout the world. And because of that, we have a large percentage of population in South Carolina (close to one in three) that find the Confederate flag offensive. It is one thing if a fringe group doesn’t like it; it is quite another when almost a third of the population has negative feelings. This is quite beyond simple political correctness.
The flag may well remain there as long as those who like it remain majority (in population, and in assembly). The demographic trends seem to indicate that this will change soon, and they may become the minority. So, in a way, the flag’s days on the official government building are more-or-less numbered. The only question is, how much longer will it remain there, making large percentage of the state population uncomfortable.
If they made the flag in rainbow colors that would solve the problem.
Look up “Rainbow Flag” in Wikipedia.
Make the flag in rainbow colors and that will solve the problem..
Here’s an idea: How about we have MacDailyNews stop handing out freemarket excuses like candy?
MacDailyNews is handing out “freemarket excuses?”
Oh, please do explain.
(This ought to be good.)
Research shows that all too often, Americans are taking medications that may not work or may be inappropriate for their mental health problems.
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/prescribing.aspx
Every mass shooting over last 20 years has one thing in common
At least 35 school shootings and/or school-related acts of violence have been committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in 169 wounded and 79 killed (in other school shootings, information about their drug use was never made public—neither confirming or refuting if they were under the influence of prescribed drugs). The most important fact about this list, is that these are only cases where the information about their psychiatric drug use was made public.
http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/
The U.S. mainstream media fails to report this or glosses over it because of the drug companies massive advertising campaigns.
Let us not forget one other thing; every mass shooting over last 20 (make that 100) years has one other thing in common: it was committed with a firearm.
And most curiously, these shooters had easy access to guns; either by simply purchasing them, or by getting them at home from other family members who owned them.
Not only that, but EVERY one was stopped by a good guy with a firearm. Truly amazing.
This clown boy in Charleston reloaded 5 times. If one person had a gun in that church, that dumb ass kid could have been taken down the first time he had to reload.
But, not every mass killing features the use of guns.
Worst School Massacre in US history: Bath, Michigan School Massacre. 1927. Murder accomplished with explosives. 44 victims (equal to the Columbine and Virginia Tech massacres combined).
Worst Domestic Terrorist Attack in US History: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building bombing. 4/19/95. Murder accomplished with a rental truck full of fertilizer based explosives. 168 dead (including many children in an onsite day care).
Worst Foreign based Terrorist Attack in US History: September 11, 2001 attacks on NYC, PA, Pentagon. Murder accomplished with box cutters and commercial airliners. ~3,000 people dead.
Arson, Stabbing Rampage in Seoul South Korea: 10/20/2008. 6 people dead, 5 from stabbing. 7 others wounded, 4 seriously. An angry man felt people “looked down on him.”
Anti-police stabbing spree in Shanghai, China: 7/2008. 6 Police Officers stabbed to death, 4 wounded. 28 year old man angry at police attacked a police station with a knife.
Akihabara Massacre, Chiyoda City, Tokyo, Japan: 6/8/2008. 7 people killed (3 struck by car, 4 by stabbing), many more injured. Man slammed into a crowd with his car, then jumped out and began stabbing people to death.
18 year old slashes 4 to death in Sitka, Alaska, US: 3/25/2008. 4 people killed. 18 year old (old enough to purchase a rifle over the counter) kills 4 people, related to him, with a 5 inch knife.
Stabbing Spree kills 2, Tsuchiura, Japan: 3/23/2008. 2 killed, 7 wounded. Man “just wanted to kill anyone.”
Stabbing spree wounds 41, 6 seriously in Berlin Train Station: 5/26/2006. 41 wounded, 6 seriously. Thankfully no one died in this attack, but not for lack of trying on the part of the drunk 16 year old.
4 killed in stabbing spree in London, UK: 9/2004. 4 killed, 2 wounded. Mentally ill man attacks mostly older people.
6 killed over Xbox dispute in Deltona, Florida, US: 8/6/2004. 6 killed. 4 men (all old enough to legally purchase firearms) bludgeon 6 people to death with baseball bats over purloined Xbox.
Daegu subway fire, Daegu, South Korea: 2/18/2003. 198 killed, 147 injured. A 56 year old unemployed taxi driver, dissatisfied with his medical treatment, sets fire to a crowded train.
Osaka School Massacre, Osaka Japan: 6/8/2001. 8 children dead, 13 other children and 2 teachers wounded. Committed by 37 year old former janitor armed with a kitchen knife.
By all accounts there are over 300,000,000 guns in America. FBI statistics, which include any mass killings, say that there were around 11,000 gun related deaths in 2011, in the U.S.
So if you assume that each killing was a separate gun, which it obviously wasn’t, then less than 0.004% of all the guns in America were used in killings.
More children die of drowning in swimming pools every year. Number one cause of death of children.
If we took that 0.004% and applied it to anything else, the word “crisis” wouldn’t apply. The word “negligible” probably would. There is no epidemic of gun related deaths. In fact, the number is falling. Violent crimes in general are falling.
Based on that number I’d say America must be the most firearm disciplined nation in the world.
And let’s not mention so called assault rifles. More people are killed (FBI stats again) with blunt instruments each year. Ban bats, hammers, and crowbars. Make people register to own one.
The anti-gun lobby is not about saving lives. It is about 2 things, hatred of people who choose to own guns, and putting a chink in the armor of the Constitution. If you can defeat the 2nd Amendment, then heck, you can pick and choose which rights to take away all day long!
Yup, pull that 2nd Amendment thread and the hope is that rest will begin to unravel.
Big government proponents despise the Constitution. Barack Obama calls it a “flawed document.”
It is the only thing that protects us from them and the 2nd Amendment is nothing more than the first battlefield.
Wait. You’re telling me that shootings occur when shooters shoot guns????? :::mind blown:::
Don’t worry, only a tiny minority of gun owners shoot people. Just like how a tiny minority of Muslims are terrorists. And we clearly don’t want to imply that a tiny number of Muslims that are terrorists are something to worry about do we? Then the tiny minority of gun owners shouldn’t be a threat by your own logic.
578 more days of Obama, Can We Take It?
578? No we can’t.
But…you show me a worthy politician and I’ll show you how to plant gun powder that grows guns.
The whole system and culture are corrupt…
You think that a tool is the problem? Here’s a hint for you – the tool does nothing without the wielder. So the problem is people – individuals – doing evil things, not the fault of any tool. The fertilizer is not to blame for McVeigh’s actions. The explosives are not to blame for the school massacre. It’s so cheap and easy to blame “the system” or inanimate objects, as though the answer was to place every single person in a rubber room deprived of all freedom and choice so that they couldn’t do anything – except for you, of course, and maybe your friends, if you can trust them. That is every tyrant’s and every leftist’s dream.
Broseph,
No where in my comment do I mention guns or place blame on them.
I simply pointed out the the president needs to go and that 578 days is toooooo long.
To be fair, I then added that there are no worthy politicians. They all lie. They are mostly all corrupt.
Then what does 578 days have to do with anything? There have been massacres since the dawn of humans.
100% of mass murders done with a weapon in the last 6 billion years was carried out by human choice/decision. There’s no record of an axe, gun, spear choosing to go it alone.
You’re a genius!
Yes, every mass shooting has been committed with a firearm. How else does on shoot, except with a firearm? Bow and arrow? Slingshot?
You could read a book called “More Guns, Less Crime” to make your crap-filled head less crap-filled, but I know you’re not gonna.
You let me know when there are zero criminals on the streets and zero tyrants in the government and I’ll let you know when I’ll turn in my guns. How does that grab ya?
bereanbob: your the genius. Read my post and imagine what I’m talking about.
So what you are saying is that these crimes are committed by persons with mental health issues. How many person with mental health issues are using psychiatric drug and NOT killing anybody? I’ll bet it’s a large number.
It is a large number. However, the large number of people who do not go crazy on these drugs is not the point.The point is that every mass shooting in the past 20 years has involved someone on these meds, which is a commonality worth investigating at the very least.
Perhaps the issue is mental health rather than mental health drugs.
I’m not sure how MDN’s idea would affect racism.
To imply that the shooter in the tragedy wasn’t racist, and was instead just under the influence of drugs is truly disingenuous.
If we were to discuss “what if” scenarios, the likelihood that the tragedy would not have happened if the shooter didn’t have access to drugs is lesser than if the shooter didn’t have access to guns. America would be much safer if it controlled gun trade the same way it controls prescription drugs trade. Instead, it is largely left to the states, and in many of them, you can just walk in and buy a weapon, which you can use five minutes later to kill people. I don’t quite understand how is gun control even done in the states where it exists on the books, when you don’t have border crossing controls to check for weapons coming in from other states.
I don’t really understand MDN take on this. Regardless of the mental state of the perpetrator, the confederate flag should never be flown. Remember, that in addition to being a symbol of racism for many, the flag was flown by an army that killed American soldiers. Southern culture needs to pick another banner if “pride in the south” is all they want to show.
it was called a civil war, not an invasion for the simple reason the soldiers on both sides were american. ugly painful war for both sides. words will not wipe the memory of that off the earth. not picking sides here, but if all anyone has is words, then there is not much to act on. saying someone else’s culture should change are hallow words unless you can empathize with the ones you are trying to change. we can all start there.
Stop. You’re ignorant about the South. It’s not a symbol of racism to Southerners, and especially not to South Carolinians. It is a symbol of sovereignty. Also, it is their state, not yours, so why don’t you stop telling them how to live their lives? I swear. Yankees never get enough of bossing other people around. Third, they don’t have to pick something else just because you don’t like it. Maybe you’re the one who needs to change. I suggest first learning to live and let live.
I’m not all that convinced that the entire South Carolinian population has the same sentiment about the flag. It would come as no surprise to find out that one in four found the flag offensive.
I don’t know the exact percentage of SC population that doesn’t like the flag, but I’m certain that it is large enough that it shouldn’t be ignored.
While Tim Cook isn’t from South Carolina, he IS a Southerner (form Alabama), so he may have the right to voice his own opinion on the subject.
As a foreigner, I have no right to tell anyone (especially in American South) what to do or not to do.
I happen to live in the South (near the Alabama borde)r, so I guess I am allowed to say pick another symbol. This has nothing to do with changing their Southern Pride. And one side in the Civil War was commiting an act of treason. As for South Carolina, pretty sure the symbol of their sovereignty is a palm tree with a sickle moon.
Bingo. Time to start committing or at least closely monitoring these mentally unstable individuals that are ticking time bombs. Every time a tragic event like this happens the knee-jerk response is to ban guns, remove a flag or capitulate in some way to a certain group of individuals as if that will solve the problem. But sadly, efforts like these will have no effect. No one will be safer. No one will be less offended. No one will deal with the real issue which is a collapse of morals and personal responsibility in our society.
Of course if you monitored all those folks, this forum might be empty!
Wow, this is going to kick off a real political “discussion” here.
Really, these one of attacks by desperately mentally ill and delusional people aren’t possible to stop with logic or example. It’s about closing down all of the state hospitals where these folks used to be committed. There’s not much option for a caregiver who recognizes these folks can hurt themselves and others.
The Confederate battle flag is the American swastika. I grew up with it, and for 25 years didn’t see anything more than “Southern Pride”. But many years out of the South has given me a chance to see what it really is–it is a symbol of racism. That’s the part of Southern Pride that no Southerner should be proud of.
This flag should take its rightful place in museums. It has no place on flagpoles where it serves only as boasting of the many ways that people of color were–and are–tyrannized.
No, it is not. If your years “out of the South” have informed you more about what happens “in the South” than your years there, clearly you have a logical dysfunction.
Logic fail.
Yes, it is. The confederate flag is the new swastika. This notion that it represents anything other than that is bs. The flag was hoisted 100 years after the civil war in direct defiance of the civil rights movement and was (and still is) each state’s way of “holding on to the old ways” (read that slavery and segregation). The new ignorant PC talking point of the flag having historical significance or representing something positive is a lie manufactured to appease the illiterate. There is nothing positive about the flag; it represents the worst of this nation, and will always just be the universal symbol of hate and ignorance… and treason, can’t leave that part out.
That may be true of the Confederate flag within the United States but on the global stage the american flag aka the stars and stripes is more and more looking like the swastika or even beyond.
Just wanted to say it’s been nice following MDN for the past few years. I couldn’t wait to see the MDN take for the headline of this post. I knew you people were pretty insensitive to begin with but enough is enough. People with opinions like yours means this country probably unfortunately needs another 300 years before we can even hope to ever achieve equality and justice for all. How about MDN not be such insensitive a-holes and acknowledge these events for what they are. Racism in the USA is alive and doing very well.
“Here’s an idea: How about we also have doctors stop handing out psychotropic drugs like candy?”
The word “also” is operative. It means that IN ADDITION TO Cook’s and Romney’s call to remove the confederate flag, the issue of overprescription of psychotropic drugs should ALSO be addressed.
MDN has agreed with Cook and Romney and called for addtional action.
Today is also my last for have anon as a go to news source for my treasure trove of RSS feeds. I’ve actually been a follower since 2008 or so. I really with you people were more human. Maybe Apple will sell you that upgrade in the next 10 years or so. We all know you will be day one customers for each and every release 😉
The shooter also wore a Gold’s Gym t-shirt in one of his photos. Is that a symbol of racism too? The confederate flag is not a symbol of racism. It’s part of the heritage of the eleven states that seceded in 1860-61. One of the issues that they seceded over was slavery, but there were a lot of other reasons as well. If the state of South Carolina wants to take it down, that’s their choice. If they don’t want to, then we should respect their choice not to. Taking the flag down will not keep people from being murdered, and it will not do away with racism. Let’s concentrate on the real problems rather than inventing new ones. This guy shot those people because he was deranged. Like other shootings similar to this one, there were a lot of warning signs that were ignored. Stop ignoring the warning signs, and a lot of these shootings can be avoided. As I’ve always said in the aftermath of one of these events, it’s not the guns that are the problem. It’s the wacko who used the gun who did the killing.
Perhaps you need to stop wackos having guns?
Salley Jenkins writing in the Washington Post said it best.
“If you went to Germany and saw a war memorial with a Nazi flag flying over it, what would you think of those people? You might think they were unrepentant. You might think they were in a lingering state of denial about their national atrocities. The Confederate battle flag is an American swastika, the relic of traitors and totalitarians, symbol of a brutal regime, not a republic. The Confederacy was treason in defense of a still deeper crime against humanity: slavery.”
Er, we’re supposed to take the word of some self-important liberal writer (I wouldn’t call them a “journalist”) at a failing newspaper?
The WaPo isn’t even suitable for wrapping fish or lining bird cages! 😂
There should be a database for those suffering from severe mental illness that talk about hurting themselves or others. The problem also is that most of the state mental hospitals have been closed down, and a lot of people can’t get meds that would help make them stable. The problem also is that most of the state mental hospitals have been closed down, and a lot of people can’t get meds that would help keep them stable. The people that are still a danger to others were the meds are not working should be in the state mental hospital.
*rolls eyes* Tim Cook inserts himself into politics YET AGAIN, because apparently being the CEO of a ginormous tech company just isn’t satisfying enough. Do us all a favor Tim – stay out of our lives. We don’t care about your establishment milquetoast ignorant political positions. We know you’re in bed with the liberal establishment already. We get it.
Isn’t it more likely to be the case that Tim, as a decent and reasonable human being, is using his unique position of influence and privilege to attempt to make the world a slightly better place?
How about Tim Cook staying out of politics?
He needs to remember that his customers don’t always share the same personal views he does.
So a skinny white guy from CA is supposed to tell us what’s ‘racist’?
I’d rather rely on our Senator Tim Scott for that than any busybody from Silicon Valley..
“Er, we’re supposed to take the word of some self-important liberal writer (I wouldn’t call them a “journalist”) at a failing newspaper?”
No one is taking anyone’s word for anything. Jenkins is quite elegantly using an analogy to explain why the Confederate flag should be removed. Her point is well made, and difficult to refute.
“So a skinny white guy from CA is supposed to tell us what’s ‘racist’?”
Tim Cook is a skinny white guy from Alabama. He likely knows something about the topic.
Er, so a skinny white guy from Alabama, now living in a bankrupt, liberal cesspool like CA, run by socialist Gov. Moonbeam knows MORE about racism than Senator Tim Scott?
You libs really ARE F’d in the head! YIKES!
Tim Scott and Tim Cook appear to be in agreement over this, actually. As of about an hour ago.
How about you run your company and shut the hell up?
Cook is getting to be more like Sally Fields these days – “you like me, you really like me!”
The politicization of the business world is even more gross when it assumes leftist ‘moral’ positions over profits – nothing bu hypocritical billionaires making sure they and their families aren’t broke when they die.
apple is a company that cares about peoples rights, gender equality, the environment.
why is this left wing politics and considered bad?
what do the right care about?
Folks, you want to remove symbols of racism then remove Old Glory. According to the emancipation proclamation only the Southern slaves were freed, yet Northern states were allowed to maintain their slaves. Thus, as a racist symbol remove Old Glory as well, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
They need to make Old Glory in rainbow colors.
MDN– you need to just stop all your Fox News talking points. We don’t need your take on everything a$$holes.
I want to buy a new iPad to replace my old iPad 2. I want to buy an iPhone 6/6s just to get a good camera and camera app.
I have a fundamental aversion for giving this smarmy mealy mouthed jerk faced Tim Cook any of my money. And all the post-Steve-Jobs gear and OSes have STUNK, changes for the sake of change. I just got a replacement force-touch retina and I wish I had my old retina back. They tweaked the touch pad and tweaked the keyboard and its not as nice.
And that watch – it looks like garbage. Tim Cook himself gets caught wearing a Nike FuelBand. Even he wont wear the crap iWatch.
And the saddest joke of all is I still use a TiVo – I can’t believe Apple has sat by and let the set top market fester this bad while instead choosing to take on pandora/spotify/etc with their horrible music service?
I will enjoy the day when Apple starts to fail and fall. Its a burnt out husk of what it once was. They are drifting on the huge momentum built up and now its teetering.
Also Tim Cook is a vile CEO. He is also hyper-political and highly opinionated but all he has done is make billions in super-high-margin gouging profit and not innovated at all.
Again I mainly wont replace my old Apple gear or get into an iPhone because Time Cook makes me sick.