“Before Apple Inc. decides to move ahead with its Project Titan project and build an electric car, the company may want to look at the menu of challenges that come with being in the automobile business these days,” David Welch and Dana Hull report for Bloomberg News.
“Apple has put a few hundred people, including some new hires from the auto industry, on a skunkworks project to do the early development of an electric vehicle resembling a minivan,” Welch and Hull report. “Such a car would challenge Tesla Motors Inc. as well as electric and hybrid cars sold by Nissan Motor Corp., General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and other companies.”
“Apple does have the advantage of a $178 billion cash hoard. That’s six times the cash Volkswagen AG has on its books and seven times what GM is carrying, according to Bloomberg data. In fact, that cash hoard alone could fund GM’s capital expenditures budget for 20 years,” Welch and Hull report. “There is even an open question about EVs being the right choice for the future, said Eric Noble, president of The CarLab, an automotive consulting firm in Orange, California… Changes to the regulations now favor hydrogen-powered vehicles because they can be refueled faster than electric cars can be recharged and can often drive longer before needing to fill up. Also, state tax rebates for hydrogen fuel cells can be double that given to buyers of electric cars. These incentive programs may start to turn the tide toward hydrogen over electric drive, Noble said.”
Much more in the full article here.
Related articles:
Apple working with Intelligent Energy on fuel cell technology for mobile devices, sources say – July 14, 2014
Apple patent application reveals next-gen fuel cell powered Macs and iOS devices – December 22, 2011
Apple patent app details highly-advanced hydrogen fuel cells to power portable devices – October 20, 2011
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Jean-Louis Gassée: The fantastic Apple Car is a fantasy – February 16, 2015
Apple is already positioned to be a car company in many ways – February 16, 2015
Why Tim Cook would want to build an Apple Car – February 14, 2015
Apple working on self-driving electric car, source says – February 14, 2015
Apple’s project ‘Titan’ gears up to challenge Tesla in electric cars – February 13, 2015
Apple’s next big thing: The Apple Car? – February 13, 2015
Apple hiring auto engineers and designers – February 13, 2015
Rumor becomes fact; geez.
nonsense
Really? An Apple minivan? Is this what Apple is going to spend their cash hoard on – a soccer mom-mobile? I don’t think so.
The vehicle is likely being used to develop better in car dash systems – that is where Apple can excel over automakers.
The vehicles may also be used to start mapping street views as well. As others have suggested, if Apple wanted a play into the automotive space, buying Tesla would make the most sense since their model and culture is not unlike their own.
The only caveat is that if Apple has discovered new battery technology with longer ranges and can drastically lower the cost of developing a car’s systems (since it already owns OS X), it might have something to revolutionize the auto industry.
The new Apple Watch’s charging regime tells me we’re not there yet.
I guess you didn’t read the Times article the other day where Jony Ive stated he has always wanted to design a car.
I was aware of Ive’s comments – there are other areas that Apple leaders have commented on that is ripe for an overhaul but for whatever reason (logistics, cost, focus, etc) it doesn’t make sense.
What does make sense is a new version of Car Play that supports Continuity and possibly a version of OS X for cars that eliminates the need for automakers to have small armies to develop interfaces and features that often are obtuse, hard to use and frequently inconsistent.
I certainly hope that Apple is not working on an electric vehicle just because Jony has always wanted to design a car. There has to be far more to it than just a desire – it needs to be a great idea that fits in with the company’s core business.
Per Steve Jobs, Apple’s success is the result of saying “no” to many good ideas in order to focus resources on a few “insanely great” ideas. That is called discipline and focus. If Apple starts putting a lot of resources into things that people just want to do, then it will be on its way to becoming Google.
I don’t believe that is true or that Tim Cook would let that kind of corporate fragmentation occur. So I have to believe that there are good business reasons for Apple’s recent automotive focus. It seems logical to me that this effort is tied to both Apple Maps and CarKit.
Yeah, but modern day electric cars like Tesla are basically moving computers, who better to overhaul the moving computer (auto) industry than Apple?
A fuel cell car is still electric. The fuel cell is used instead of batteries, leaving the rest of the vehicle mostly the same.
This guy is brilliant. I bet nobody at Apple would ever think to consider the “challenges” before they decide to enter a market.
Seriously, no computer company is going to build cars and put real car manufacture companies out of business.
s/
May?? It is already a nightmare. Every market apple enter is disrupt.
And also, NO! Apple doesn’t need to “look at the menu of challenges”, that is precisely why Apple get things done better, they don’t just evolve a product, they re invent it.
And finally? How the hell GM has such amount of money if they were asking for money to the government a few years ago? Did at least pay it?
Yes, GM repaid the government.
When I hear naysayers caveats like ““Before Apple Inc. decides to move ahead with its Project Titan project and build an electric car, the company may want to look at the menu of challenges that come with being in the automobile business these days” I am reminded of the Palm CEO quote of a PC company not just walking in and taking over.
I love too the hubris in thinking that Apple would need someone else like this Bloomberg to remind them of the pitfalls and the difficulties ahead. I don’t think Apple approaches anything thinking it will be a “piece of cake.”
You can bet inside months we will be hearing how Apple has reluctantly decided not to pursue their (imaginary) car plans.
No doubt the “Project Titan project” will be managed by Apple’s new “Department of Redundancy Department”.
They should let Apple design it, and let Tesla build it
>>>>>Changes to the regulations now favor hydrogen-powered vehicles because they can be refueled faster than electric cars can be recharged and can often drive longer before needing to fill up. Also, state tax rebates for hydrogen fuel cells can be double that given to buyers of electric cars. These incentive programs may start to turn the tide toward hydrogen over electric drive, Noble said.”<<<<<
"The rules are to be changed" (again and again). – Dr. Frankenfurter, Rocky Horror.
Will Apple make a car? Only they know. Should they make it, that is subject to debate. I for one think that they should but I can think of a thousand reasons why one would say thy should not.
What interests me most is the question — Can they do it? The question covers not only the technical capability but also the “business” of car making and selling.
I spent 12 years in auto industry (Ford), 8 in US developing new cars and 4 in Japan, developing and marketing the cars to Japan. I have followed the car industry for last 40 years. Bases on that experience my answer is a solid Yes!
First, money — Apple has plenty. A concept to customer car program starting from scratch will need less than $25 Billion. Apple generates that in less than 6 months.
Second, access to basic technology — The base car technology is roughly 125 year old. Refinements of over a century and the wide use means that there is plenty to engineering talent that can be hired. Cars can be roughly divided into body, chassis, power train and electronics. The first two are well understood and are fairly mature from engineering point of view. Fossil fuel is old technology for power train, but electric/fuel cell is new and that is where Apple may have some challenges to overcome. Electronics has a lot of room to grow and innovate (e.g. drive less car) and that is where Apple will really
Third, high end technology — From basic transportation, cars have evolved into a high technology machine. Most car companies however, design the vehicle but then get the parts made from OEM suppliers. Apple will have no difficulty getting the same suppliers to provide parts — think apple getting the CPU, RAM, Hard Drive, Displays from other. Part of the job is just supply chain management. More complex than Apples current supply chain, but given the DNA of the Apple CEO, very possible.
Fourth, the distribution — People will be lining up to open dealerships.
Fifth, Marketing — Just slap the apple Logo on! It will be an Apple ‘Cart’ to over turn all other apple carts.
Six, Apple Sauce — That special touch that only Apple can provide. Look, feel, driver interface, etc.
One final thought — Cars manufacturers work on about 15% gross margin on low end and 30% on high end. On the premium end the the margins can be much higher, but the volumes are low. Since Apple likes to work with 45-50% margins, they will need to think about the volume/margin tradeoff carefully.
(Just dreaming for now, but this is very possible) – There are 50 million vehicles sold annually. If Apple “does a Mac” and just gets 5% share at $50,000 each it will add $125 Billion to the top line and about $50 Billion to the bottom line. At a PE of 10, this will add $500 billion to the valuation, almost doubling the share price. By the way Tesla is only making $100,000 + premium sports cars, sells a few hundred units, looses money and is valued at $25 billion.
What’s your opinion on hydrogen powered cars?
I remember GM coming out with the sled hydrogen chassis in the 90s and one could put different “car tops” on the same hydrogen sled. I really thought it was a great concept. But hydrogen never caught on. I don’t like how long batteries take to charge and I worry about batteries in cold weather.
Hydrogen is potentially a better option especially unless that ever intangible breakthrough in battery/cell technology comes into focus.
However producing it still uses electricity and indeed hydro carbons in the most commonly used method. However the biggest challenge is that it needs a supply chain similar to petroleum/gasoline and the cost of setting that up is quite frightening. A bit of a chicken and egg problem you can’t have one without the other.
Always been a great supporter of Hydrogen cars but with the standards now being reached in electric and hybrid vehicles it would seem this is the more likely direction. The small petrol motor combined with increasingly efficient electric motors/batteries looks like the immediate future and fill the gap until pure electric options can hit more acceptable standards. That will be a combination of range and recharge time with breakthroughs in the latter the more likely which will seriously diminish the problem of the former.
If Apple can crack barium titanate and transform that into a workable battery, then having an electric car that can charge in 10 minutes might not be a lot different than todays refueling and with 2.5 times the battery capacity of any current tech, it would be the breakthrough tech that could seriously challenge hydrogen. If not this, than perhaps any of the many other ultra capacitor tech that is being worked on. With their cash pile, Apple has the greatest ability to fund or purchase the next breakthrough, AND the ability to bring it to market in a style others can only dream of.
Apple has been burned on patents before.
I couldn’t blame them on not wanted to spend billions on a new battery technology only to have it either stolen or a court ruling it’s for the greater good for the patents to be nullified.
Nobody makes money building cars. Apple made a lot of money by hiring cheap Chinese labor workers at vast Foxxconn plants in China. Only Americans sell them for great mark up prices. GM and Ford are still saddled with heavy pension and health obiligatoins that I doubt Apple would want to touch. maybe Apple will make cars in China then this will be a different story.
Couple of problems. One is the optics, no one who builds Apple products can ever get healthcare or retire because the work too cheaply and their employers are not forced to provide those benefits. Does that make Apple customers feel good about their choices? Will it make Apple feel OK? It’s kind of shameful, long term. Right now, Apple is providing better jobs than the workers have had so far, but in the long run people have to make enough to buy what they need and save for their futures.
Second, overseas manufacturing of cars is a problem. Japanese and German manufacturers have set up plants in the US for good reason, it costs too much to ship and ties up inventory for a month or more. Apple can ship its entire daily production run of iPhones, iPads, Macs, etc in one 747 cargo aircraft. The goods are available for sale in the US in a matter of days. Not so much with cars sitting in a slow boat from China.