Obama targets foreign profits with tax proposal, Republicans skeptical

“President Barack Obama’s fiscal 2016 budget will seek new taxes on trillions of dollars in profits accumulated overseas by U.S. companies, and a new approach to taxing foreign profits in the future, but Republicans were skeptical of the plan on Sunday,” Jeff Mason and Kevin Drawbaugh report for Reuters. “Reviving a long-running debate about corporate tax avoidance, Obama will target a loophole that lets companies pay no tax on earnings held abroad, the White House said. “But his proposal was certain to encounter stiff resistance from Republicans.”

“In his budget plan to be unveiled on Monday, Obama will call for a one-time, 14 percent tax on an estimated $2.1 trillion in profits piled up abroad over the years by multinationals such as General Electric, Microsoft, Pfizer Inc. and Apple Inc,” Mason and Drawbaugh report. “He will also seek to impose a 19 percent tax on U.S. companies’ future foreign earnings, the White House said.”

“The annual budget proposal is as much a political document as a fiscal roadmap, requiring approval from Congress. Given Washington’s current political division, much of what will be laid out on Monday is unlikely to become law,” Mason and Drawbaugh report. “On proposed tax increases for the wealthy and large companies that are part of that package, Paul Ryan, the top Republican tax writer in the House of Representatives, said on NBC’s Meet the Press: ‘What I think the president is trying to do here is to, again, exploit envy economics.'”

“Ryan aide Brendan Buck said in an emailed reply to questions that tax reform should be about simplifying the code and lowering rates,” Mason and Drawbaugh report. “‘If that’s the approach the administration is willing to take, there may be room to find common ground,’ he said. ‘There won’t be, however, if the president instead tries to sock American businesses with big tax hikes just to increase spending and add even more complexity to the code.'”

Read more in the full article here.

“A proposal last year from Dave Camp, then the Republican chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, would have taxed the one-time profits at 8.75 percent for cash and 3.5 percent for other assets. Camp didn’t use a pure minimum-tax system for future profits, and still, his plan didn’t get universal acclaim from U.S. multinational corporations,” Richard Rubin and Jonathan Allen report for Bloomberg. “Under current law, U.S. companies owe the full 35 percent U.S. tax on income they earn around the world. They get tax credits for payments to foreign governments and don’t have to pay the U.S. tax until they bring the money home.
That system gives companies an incentive to push profits outside the U.S. and leave them there. Apple Inc. and Google Inc. are among the many U.S. companies doing that, and companies’ disclosures indicate how little foreign tax they pay.”

Read more in the full article here.

MacDailyNews Take:

Under the current U.S. corporate tax system, it would be very expensive to repatriate that cash. Unfortunately, the tax code has not kept up with the digital age. The tax system handicaps American corporations in relation to our foreign competitors who don’t have such constraints on the free flow of capital… Apple has always believed in the simple, not the complex. You can see it in our products and the way we conduct ourselves. It is in this spirit that we recommend a dramatic simplification of the corporate tax code. This reform should be revenue neutral, eliminate all corporate tax expenditures, lower corporate income tax rates and implement a reasonable tax on foreign earnings that allows the free flow of capital back to the U.S. We make this recommendation with our eyes wide open, realizing this would likely increase Apple’s U.S. taxes. But we strongly believe such comprehensive reform would be fair to all taxpayers, would keep America globally competitive and would promote U.S. economic growth.Apple CEO Tim Cook, May 21, 2013

[Thanks to MacDailyNews readers too numerous to mention individually for the heads up.]

Related articles:
Senator Rand Paul finds Democratic partner for tax repatriation holiday – January 30, 2015
Businesses hopeful Republican control of U.S. Congress will break tax-reform gridlock – November 5, 2014
Not in Taxes anymore: On site at Apple’s famous Irish ‘headquarters’ – November 2, 2013
Regan: U.S. tax code spurs loveless foreign corporate ‘marriages’ – May 13, 2014
Ireland to close Apple’s tax loophole, but leave bigger one open – October 15, 2013
G20 think tank OECD proposes blueprint for global crackdown on tax avoidance – July 19, 2013
Thomas Sowell on Apple, corporate taxes, and ‘the road to serfdom’ – May 28, 2013
Taxing Apple just taxes you – May 24, 2013
Don’t tax Apple, tax its shareholders – May 24, 2013
If Apple paid more tax, we might pay less or something – May 22, 2013
Apple CEO Tim Cook pounds another nail into the Keynesian coffin – May 22, 2013
Apple CEO Cook makes no apology for company’s tax strategy – May 22, 2013

70 Comments

  1. What did The worthless U.S. Elected Government scumbags DO for those corporations? A: NOTHING! What makes them even PONDER that they have any RIGHT to that HARD EARNED TREASURE CHEST!? FU OBLAH BLAH.. FIX THE FUCKING TAX CODE ALREADY!!

      1. But the issue is that when last foreign profits were returned from overseas via one-time special parliament law in 2004 there was no promised increase of jobs or anything Republicans promised it would do — numerous researches tracked the money.

        All that has happened is that shareholders grabbed the money. If anything, companies decreased number of jobs they have since then, not increased.

        So we have to be honest: this foreign profits import operation has nothing to do with anything other than shareholders getting (almost) tax free profits. Republicans should not use that fake rhetoric that it would supposedly help the economy. Been there, done that, it is hard-proven fact.

        1. I remember. They had the nerve to call that one the “American Jobs Creation Act of 2004” (or something to that affect) – part of long pattern of Bush era double-speak, where bills were named after the exact opposite of what they actually did.

          Provisions to guarantee job creation were gutted by lawmakers before passing the bill. What remained was a one time “tax holiday” on foreign profits. The results months later were very predictable: Record CEO bonuses + record layoffs at every single company that participated. I strongly suspect that’s what Republicans lawmakers really wanted all along, despite their often repeated lies about it being about “creating jobs”.

          And I also strongly suspect Republican lawmakers want to do exactly the same thing again today – lay off as many Americans as they can get away with so the excessively rich can pocket as much of these foreign profits as possible. They’re not even going to try to hide it: I bet the first thing about this proposal they’ll dismantle is the rebuilding infrastructure part – because that’s the one part of this proposal that actually guarantees job creation.

        2. Are you aware we are the only country that taxes profits made overseas? This applies to both corporations and individuals. If I am a US citizen and work in Canada, I have to pay US income taxes on the money I make there. This is insanity and no other country does this.

          Why should US corporations have to pay a single dime of taxes on profits made in other countries? If Apple sells iPhones in Australia that were manufactured in China, why does any of that money belong to the US? Why should there even need to be a holiday as in why should this even be taxable?

          Please answer that before you go on your soap box and keep grandstanding about “fair share’ and all that other bull.

          1. the catch, and there is always one, is simple
            Companies Find ways to shuffle money. Apple will move money to Ireland for items sold in Las Vegas and call it overseas.
            Unfortunately the world is for you and me,mutable to move easily and with so many barriers, but for large corporations the world is small and a great way to pillage the little guy.

          2. Not, USA is by far not the only company that taxes profits that are made overseas. The likes of Siemens or Vivendi or Gazprom all pay profit taxes on all profits they make — wherever they are made.

    1. Actually, elected our government does plenty for the corporations. Here are a few things that corporations need to be successful, and cost billions:

      • Corporate subsidies, like the $15 billion in subsidies contained in the Energy Policy Act of 2005, to the oil, gas, and coal industries.
      • Subsidies to huge cotton growers
      • Law and Order
      • Fire Departments
      • Military protection
      • Bankruptcy protection
      • Patents and copyrights
      • Highways and roads and bridges
      • Development of the Internet
      • Postal service
      • Court System

  2. Although the stated tax rate is 35%, the effective tax rate is far less. I believe Apple paid about 24% on U.S. sales last quarter. Others pay much less. The President’s plan for a tax of 19% for foreign sales (with a credit for local taxes paid), and an overall corporate rate lowered to 28% (with some loopholes closed), seems fair to me. We must find a way to invest in our future through rebuilding our infrastructure, investing in education, and tax breaks for the middle class who will actually spend money and create demand. We do not have a supply problem, trickle down has not and will not work.

        1. All Democrats are not Progressives and all Progressives are not Democrats.
          All Liberals are not Progressives as well as the inverse.

          I would remind you that Theodore Roosevelt a Republican President of the United States was a Progressive.

          Just as all Republicans are not NeoCons or Teabaggers, be more selective with your statements.

          There are plenty of areas where Progressives and Libertarians share common space such as civil liberties, a desire to stay out of foreign wars and a respect by government for the maximum possible personal freedom. There are plenty of Corporate Democrats who commonly vote for and support things the NeoCon Republicans advocate.

          I am a Progressive and am not a member of the Democratic Party and know that there are many more like me. Instead of vilifying progressives and treating the term liberal like a disease, you might check the Limbaugh Bullshit and use your head. You might actually get things accomplished.

            1. botty, are you that dense that you can’t tell the difference between progress and communism? if it wasn’t for those progressives, women wouldn’t be allowed to vote and people without pasty white skin would count as 3/5 of a person in the census. get a clue, you dinosaur.

            2. there is no “progressive” or “liberal” or “capitalism” or “socialism”, they are transient definitions in a changing world…there are two and ONLY two camps: individualism and collectivism, the former promotes freedom and creativity, the latter is the source of all tyranny.

            3. Don’t waste your time, Paul. botvinnik is an asshole who doesn’t give a care about anyone but himself. His last daft comment confirms what a moron he/she/it is.

      1. on what, Kent? The vast majority of consumers complain about worn out roads and bridges, but they don’t want to pay tolls, nor are they out starting companies to fix huge infrastructure problems. On the other hand, when you look at consumer buying trends, the a significant and growing percentage of consumer products is DISPOSABLE IMPORTED JUNK. Why is that? Certainly not because of tax rate — the corporate tax rate for crude and labor-intensive manufactured goods could be ZERO and still the difference in wage rates would prompt all corporations offshore their plants. So blaming Obama for a trend that started decades ago is foolish. I’m no fan of stupid giveaways like child tax credits, but investments in infrastructure keeps America competitive. Oh, and by the way, it’s foolish to decrease base tax rates until debts have been retired. It should be noted that Obama achieved better deficit reduction than pANY republican tax plan offered in the last 6 years was predicted to by the repubs themselves. The US needs to do better, but announcing new ideas as “DOA” is the same as actively shoveling debt onto your children. Where’s your plan, Kent, First, and other extremist right wingers? Do you think you could possibly balance the budget yourselves? Show us the math.

        You claim that starving the federal government would somehow save money. Okay, fine, show us where. I’d say the cuts needs to start at the military by bringing the troops home where they belong. Where the federal government wastes the most money is in overseas wars. Nationbuilding at home is an investment that pays huge dividends — that is, assuming you want your nation to prosper. Interestingly, YOUR party never wants to cut anything except tax rates on people who are already rolling in so much dough that they don’t know what to do with it all.

      1. Nice, but will not happen. Loopholes are the drug of politicians. It’s the primary source of campaign funds, how they vote / support these loopholes drives their campaign financing, so expecting a change is pure folly.

          1. Reminds me of the first DieHard movie. Remember the “business / deal guy”, thought he could negotiate with anyone. Well, he ended up getting shot.

            Problem is, these big companies want to do business under rule of law, but refuse to pay for the systems that provide it.

    1. Did not we just spend a ton of money rebuilding our infrastructure at the outset of the Bamster’s administration? You know, the stimulus that supposedly went to thousands of shovel ready jobs? The stimulus we had to have to avoid famine, armageddon and the end of the world? And aren’t we already one of the top spenders in education in all of the world? Does anybody think we can solve our sorry education system with more money? And tax break for the middle class? This is the Obama administration you’re talking about. There will never be a tax break for the middle class as long as Obama is president. They have to sock the middle class to redistribute their wealth and provide food stamps and benefits to democrat voters. Sadly, it is the middle class and small businesses that provide the most jobs. The very rich, not so much. Their tax is, they call them …donations.

  3. Instead of rhetoric, the most helpful thing would be comparative spreadsheets. That is to say, somebody create some math so that the hot air can dissipate.

  4. 60% of Apple’s income comes from outside of the Americas (they don’t breakout the USA only income) and is set to increase. Why should Apple continue to be financially based in the USA?

    1. Probably because that’s where the brain trust is. If you want access to the best college graduates, you set up shop in the USA. And that means, yes, you have to pay for the infrastructure in the USA too.

      It’s funny to see the extreme rich complain about the cost of living and doing business in the USA. Why are you still here if it’s sooooo terrible in America? Corporate honchos choose office sites in the absolute highest rent districts, and blow $74 million at a time to hire A SINGLE PERSON to join their company, or $3 Billion on a cheesy fashion-before-performance audio company with an easily replicated service, or $7 trillion on round donut offices — but then they whine about the fact that the USA has infrastructure to maintain and accrued debt to pay off with tax proceeds.

      Meanwhile, the average US family earns less than $50k per year and has to work multiple dead-end jobs to make ends meet. Are these the people you want to pay off accrued debts? Is that where the accumulated capital is, under the mattresses of the shrinking middle class who suffer factory closure after factory closure? Many of these folks are still paying off college debts, so it’s not even realistic for them to strike it rich in the stock market game, which of course is what the rich always point to as the “hard work” that everyone should do.

      Land of the free, my ass. The country club atmosphere in corporate offices is the same as it always was — all too often, winners are chosen not by performance, but by personal connections. Only today corporate executives know no shame in filling their own pockets with millions while whining that they can’t possibly hire more people nor pay any tax rate above that of a 3rd world nation. Like Henry Ford did with his $5/day wage a century ago, Apple COULD set an example of a company that builds a strong economy with a vibrant middle class. Instead we are witnessing Apple act like any other greedy company with extremely overpaid executives on one continent, and assembly line workers who can’t have a bathroom break while building widgets in a megafactory at pennies per hour wages in a Communist nation where there is no vote and they can’t have any say in their own government. Patriots in the USA used to chant “no taxation without representation”. Now the greedy leaders of the corporations have bought the government from under the peoples, feet, all while brainwashing them to beleive the corporate mantra: “no taxation for us, no representation for our workers”.

      Pathetic.

      1. “the average US family earns less than $50k per year and has to work multiple dead-end jobs to make ends meet.”

        where does the 50k worker keep his retirement funds?
        something like 401s and Mutual Funds ( which are investments in companies like Apple ) which will shrink if the companies get the shit taxed out of them.
        Even teachers pension funds are invested in companies like Apple, McDonalds, Exxon etc.

        1. Great, so a lot of people put money in the stock market —- though far less than you’d like to believe, as many people invest in government bonds, real estate, commodities, and other safer places. So the corporations are holding YOUR money…

          Does this mean that multinational corporations should have unlimited lobbyist influence, or would you like to be able to speak to your congressman?

          Does this mean you endorse the companies that flaunt laws, from corrupt dealing with Nigerian warlords to dumping toxic waste in India because litigation is harder for small entities there?

          Does putting your money in a company give the leaders of that company carte blanche to employ child labor, foul the water and air, or dump PCBs — as long as you get your return and all this mess is out of your direct sight?

          Does a company have any other obligation other than providing a return on investment?

          If you believe the world would be better if business was officiated —- yeah, governed, that dirty G word —- then wouldn’t it be nice if it was done by democratically elected officials who were competent, adequately staffed, and with the correct tools and information to do the job?

          Or do ya just think that we should slash the federal budget, eliminate all inconvenient laws, disband police and emergency services, and hire the three stooges to track down people who look bad?

          The people on this forum who think companies are getting ripped off haven’t got a clue all the handouts these companies are getting. They don’t want to know. If you want to end welfare, then start first by cutting corporate welfare and locking out the corrupt lobbyists. No middle class schmuck earning $50k per year or whatever is going to sink the US government, but the asshats who close down profitable factories in the US so they can get a bonus next quarter are traitors to the nation. Companies like GE and Pepsi pay less in federal taxes than you or I, so why the frack is that acceptable to anybody? Why is it that small business owners are subject to an AMT but huge companies get away with tiny tax rates every year, often in the single percentage points??? I think it’s time the republicans put up or shut up. They’ve had years to propose a balanced budget, and the public is waiting. All I hear from them is the need to spend more on bullshit security crap and drones, while the tax code gets more complicated and fuller of loopholes favoring the rich every year. Enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          1. once again you guys are ranting with no facts.

            The largest holders of apple stocks are funds like mutual funds and bank funds which are comprised of small individual investors (60-70% of the stock).

            The largest individual investors are (from yahoo finance):
            1. Arthur Levinson (Apple chairman )
            2, Tim Cook : CEO (you know the guy responsible for apple’s record profit and that’s his pay)
            3. Craig Federighi (head of OSX and iOS)

            Compare : Levinson the largest individual investor holds 1 million shares vs the 300+ million held by the largest fund Vanguard (small investors).

            (and as an aapl investor I think that Tim Cook deserve his shares . If you think as your earlier posts suggest that he is one of those corrupt execs that don’t deserve his job why don’t YOU simply join a company , become CEO and outperform Apple? About pay of apple execs, if apple INVESTORS — you know the people who put their money up and own apple — mostly aren’t complaining why should people outside? )

            —–
            and all your rants about ” PCBS, Nigerian” warlords etc is just emotional fluff and where did I ever say i approve that?

            As your post is filled with those inflammatory examples of excesses of corporations (Nigerian warlords etc) , I will give you one of my own about Government : Putin spent 50 billion of Russian taxpayers dollars into the olympics, by all accounts about 30-40 billion ended up lining the pockets of his cronies, so Govt. is always better than money in taxpayers pockets? Go Google “government corruption Russian Olympics” if you don’t believe me.

            By all means persecute condemn companies who using PCBs etc BUT we are NOT talking about that are we?

            we are talking about taking the profits of apple which belong to the investors (as can be to many small people who have them in their retirement funds — you know like me). What you are saying is that the govt should take money (and the money which were are talking about is not made in the USA — Apple already pays all USA profit taxes)– from people who have saved and invested and put it into the wasteful maw of the government (see my other posts below).

            I think I can handle my own money better than the government. BTW when investors get their aapl dividends it is taxed and when they cash it out they are taxed capital gains , what they are suggesting is that before the monies even reach that point they should be given a high tax (get it? tax the repatriation of cash not earned in USA, then the reminder subject to income tax and capital gains tax).

            Government should be better off if they ran AUDITS of government spending and fire the government officials who waste money. I bet you the budget could be cut substantially with no loss of services.

            1. what has that got to do with anything I wrote?

              “Not everyone trusts the snake oil sold on Wall Street.”
              well if you didn’t invest in aapl you lost out.

            2. I was just pointing out a mistake you made on assuming where people save their money. According to Gallup, only 52% of people invest in stocks. http://www.gallup.com/poll/162353/stock-ownership-stays-record-low.aspx

              Of course, that doesn’t mean that people aren’t saving. Most adults have significant assets in real estate or small businesses. In addition, the bond market is bigger than the stock market. REITS and physical assets like rare metals or commodities trading also represent a percentage of peoples’ savings.

              AAPL may be one component of a successful retirement savings plan, but it’s not the only investment vehicle out there. So I kind of agree that tax policy needs updating, but the biggest burden by far is on small business owners. According to the GAO, US companies on average pay an effective 12.6% tax rate. Federal tax receipts from corporations as a percentage of overall proceeds is amongst the lowest in modern times.
              http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/index.html

              So why is everyone feeling so sorry for huge corporations who have billions in profits when small business owners are on the hook paying full income tax rates???

            3. “o why is everyone feeling so sorry for huge corporations who have billions in profits when small business owners are on the hook paying full income tax rates???”

              I keep explaining it in minute detail but you guys don’t or have blinders on and don’t get it…

              WTF do you keep lumping huge corporations as some giant evil entity (it’s clueless simplification) — as I’ve explained Apple for example is mostly owned by small investors who have put their money in funds (like pension funds, 401s, bank mutual funds) who have bought aapl. overtaxing apple hurts those investors.

              (Apple pays 20-30% tax on all USA profits. Samsung pays the Korean govt less than 5%. Many countries don’t tax overseas profits, the govt wants eventually 19%)

              Those small investors are probably POORER than those small business owners you are sooooo worried about (most small business owners have hundreds of thousands in assets e.g a McDonalds franchise cost hundreds of thousands upfront. A mid sized car repair shop is worth millions ) . As I’ve explained in my other posts and headline of my name many people including myself depend on personal funds with aapl for retirement and the vast majority have less assets than those ‘small business’ guys you are so concerned about (Look I’m NOT bashing small business people but you putting small businessmen as some ‘good guy’ pedestal and ‘big corp’ as evil is stereotyping nonsense ).

              And as for other arguments that people should put money into stuff like real estate…dude.. Most working stiffs don’t have money to invest in real estate — they can’t even pay up the house they are living in and seriously how many companies match funds for real estate? many firms often match funds put into retirement mutual funds though… )

  5. Obama noted over the weekend that George Washington made beer in the White House.

    “”We make beer,” said Obama, dressed in a lavender gingham shirt with the sleeves rolled up. “First president since George Washington to make some booze in the White House.””

    1. I do remember a fair number of conservative types begging for a 10-15% one time tax holiday on foreign profits. Now that Obama has called for a one time 14% tax and closing of loopholes, they’ve all gone silent or actively railed against it.

    1. Value, not absolute tax rate, is what matters. It’s hilarious to hear Apple loyalists proudly declare day in and day out that by paying more for a better machine, their Apple product delivers significantly better value. Then when the exact same logic is applied to the civilization in which they live, they bitch and moan about how it needs to be cheaper INSTEAD OF better. They keep voting for morons who promise to slash tax rates INSTEAD or improving efficiency.

      What specific tax friendly countries offers better value? We’ve been hearing how the USA is too expensive, but US Corps love Manhattan, and it certainly doesn’t look like the Silicon Valley has dried up. What tax-friendly country offers the benefits that the USA offers? No European nation is more cost effective, and yes, that includes Ireland. Maybe in a few decades if China becomes democratic there will be a change, but for today, the lure of cheap labor is all they offer. It should be obvious that western corporations own the US government and therefore get whatever loopholes they need. They have much less leverage in non-democratic nations, and therefore much larger risks. That’s why Apple doesn’t own its own assembly plant in China, and its headquarters isn’t going there anytime soon.

      If the Tea Party wishes to save money by living in Communism, please — go ahead.

        1. is that all you got botty?

          Do please let us know why it’s okay for a corporate oligarchy to buy congressmen and essentially write their own tax loopholes, all while transferring production to a communist nation that doesn’t allow anyone a say in how things are run? Is that your ideal world, rewarding communist regimes for keeping the working class under their thumb and ready for corporate exploitation?

            1. seems to me you blame somebody else for all your problems. and you take for granted the all the things Rick Sterner identified that wouldn’t be available or affordable without a government.

              Your dream world is a football game without any officiating … but you don’t have the balls to move to a country that offers it.

            2. you collectivists always have it backwards, there would be no government without the fruit of the labor of those who produce…even in anarchy, people still eat, people still grow potatoes and people still sell potatoes. The founding purpose of the American republic is limited government with constitutional restraints to keep it limited.

            3. it is no “dream world” it is the driving source that made America the greatest country in the world. Your philosophy has enslaved every man, woman and child in history. It is the philosophy of the current administration.

  6. The US and China now stand virtually alone in attempting to tax all income of their citizens no matter where the income was generated. As a result, many wealthy US citizens are now traveling to certain foreign countries to give birth so that the children have the option of renouncing US citizenship because of the unequal tax burden claimed by the US. The Obama proposal is trying to do for corporations what the US has been doing to individuals. It is backward and will backfire ultimately. Indeed, the US can only keep this up so long. As our economic power diminishes (and it will) relative to others, the US will have to give way and only take its fair share of income — income generated in the US. There is a day of reckoning coming for the US Treasury, and it is not going to be pretty.

    1. Do you want to live in a nation with low tax rates and low regulation? Please point to the one country that you think would be superior for Apple to be headquartered, and why. Then some highly esteemed investigative reporter like MDN can query Apple employees about moving.

      According to the latest executive budget proposal, funding domestic infrastructure and personal income tax reductions would be partially funded by a one-time tax on multinational corporation foreign profits repatriation almost exactly as Apple proposed, with tax credit given for all local taxes paid.

      In other words, just like state income taxes are deducted from federal income taxes, the proposed scheme would allow multinational companies to repatriate their foreign earnings into the USA by paying a pittance, and in some cases nothing, since overseas tax rates are in reality no that much cheaper than the real tax rate that US companies pay after exploiting all the loopholes and giveaways from the fed.

      Sorry if that doesn’t fit with the Firster Tea Party narrative. The benefits of being in the USA don’t come for free — and these days, it doesn’t really require people to spill blood. But it does require people to pay taxes to keep up the infrastructure, marketplace, and environment that it seems too many people take completely for granted.

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