“Born in 1940, computer scientist Alan Curtis Kay is one of a handful of visionaries most responsible for the concepts which have propelled personal computing forward over the past thirty years — and surely the most quotable one,” Harry McCracken reports for TIME Magazine.
“Above all, however, Kay is known for the Dynabook — his decades-old vision of a portable suite of hardware, software, programming tools and services which would add up to the ultimate creative environment for kids of all ages,” McCracken reports. “Kay says that some gadgets with superficial Dynabook-like qualities, such as the iPad, have not only failed to realize the Dynabook dream, but have in some senses betrayed it. That’s one of the points he makes in this interview, conducted by computer historian David Greelish…”
For all media, the original intent [of the Dynabook] was “symmetric authoring and consuming.” Isn’t it crystal clear that this last and most important service is quite lacking in today’s computing for the general public? Apple with the iPad and iPhone goes even further and does not allow children to download an Etoy made by another child somewhere in the world. This could not be farther from the original intentions of the entire ARPA-IPTO/PARC community in the ’60s and ’70s.
Apple’s reasons for this are mostly bogus, and to the extent that security is an issue, what is insecure are the OSes supplied by the vendors (and the insecurities are the result of their own bad practices — they are not necessary)…
The current day UIs derived from the PARC-GUI [the interface developed in the 1970s by Kay and his colleagues at Xerox’s Palo Alto Research Center] have many flaws, including those that were in the PARC-GUI in the first place. In addition, there have been backslidings — for example, even though multitouch is a good idea (pioneered by Nicholas Negroponte’s ARCH-MAC group [a predecessor of MIT’s Media Lab] in the late ’70s), much of the iPad UI is very poor in a myriad of ways. – Alan Kay
Read more in the full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: And, “the original intentions of the entire ARPA-IPTO/PARC community in the ’60s and ’70s” are sacrosanct in 2013 because…?
To borrow and paraphrase a familiar cliche…”those that can, do; those that can’t, whine and criticize.”
In Kay’s case, it would be those who could did, and changed the world. Now they’re bored.
To be fair, Kay is not in position to be ultimate judge the UI. His Dynabook, while being tablet, had physical keyboard UI, which is infinitely behind Jobs’ concept (dated from early 1980s) of all-screen tablet, all-screen-touch UI for the iPad.
That said, there is nothing perfect in the world, so some critique’s of iPad’s UI could be easily legit.
That’s fair, DeRS. Kay may have some legitimate beefs with iOS, although he appears to be mainly concerned with “openness” as the prime measure of merit. All things being equal, I would be glad to have improved interoperability and openness. But I also want a healthy Apple and a reasonable degree of security.
The iPhone and iPad are leaps and bounds ahead of previous generations of devices. They laid the foundation and the expectation for modern portable electronic devices. Now that the iPhone and iPad exist, it is easy to critique iOS and its user interface and find flaws. This is a natural process in the evolution of any family of products. As long as the critiques are realistic and reasonable, it’s all good.
Shouldn’t you do some checking before just having an opinion and expressing it?
If you look at the first public paper on the Dynabook (1972) you would find a paragraph about making the entire face of the Dynabook a display, being able to show a keyboard, and to use the touch sensitive surface to do the typing.
And by the way, guess who worked with Steve in the early 80s? Do you really think that Steve thought up these ideas?
He and I were friends until he died, and he never claimed to be an inventor — and wasn’t — he was an innovative marketeer with a fair amount of taste.
I’m just a fan from the early days knowing when a good thing comes a long. “Fair amount of taste,” seems less than how I amagined.
I feel, now that people are talking more, the public needs a proper historical analysts, of who’s who, a six degrees of connection. Who came up with what, and how did we got where we are today.
I bet, with proper analysis, we will be able to determine, that indeed, in the 60’s and 70’s everyone was listening to the same guy, from Ray Bradbury, Gene Roddenberry, Stanley Kubrick. From the people who visualized the future, to the creators of the future.
The fact that we have an iPad, didn’t come out of the blue, in the 21st century, but has been in the making or dreams for decades.
Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach; those who can’t teach, teach gym. – Woody Allen
And that coming from the most neurotic person I’ve ever seen.
“And those who can’t teach gym, marry their step-daughters.”
Woody Allen – the Samsung of Hollywood.
lol, great.
“Do our modern personal computing devices augment education? Have they lived up to what was foreseen in the past? Are they really helping teachers teach in the classroom?”
a documentary showing physically challenged children proved that iPad was in deed greatly helping kids in the classroom greatly both for the teachers and students
– they adopted to the device far quicker then any pc
– they were better off individually expressing themselves
– enriched and enjoyed what they were learning
– more satisfied with their own achievements
– a greater sense of pride
– comfort with repetition
– over all grades went up 20%
all this due to a friendly os – without the hassles of a mouse and the clunkiness of a keyboard
Apple iPad exceeds – but the sour Kay wants us to think no
Kay failed in his own vision – he never continued to change the world.. he gave up long ago… plus millions of millions of customers find iOS easy to use and understand… Kay needs to button his lip and do something else.
“In traditional personal computing (desktops & laptops) the graphical user interface/desktop paradigm is now well established at 20+ years, having become dominant sometime after the Apple Macintosh with Microsoft’s Windows 3.1 in 1992. Do you see this changing anytime soon? What might replace it? Or will these types of computers always use this type of interface for the foreseeable future?”
yes – iOS devices out sell pc laptops n desktops even macs
shut the f-up whiny old turd
I think Mr. Kay, with all due respect, is living in a world I like to imagine could be real someday, where the interchange of data, ideas, software, concepts, eToys, etc., can occur without worrying about consequence. Not on this planet though, not with the current dominant species.
Consider eToys alone. How long before some pervert kid creates an ePenis? Some other kids download it. And Bang… class action law suit against Apple.
The problem with the ePenis, is that our world considers it perverse. In and ideological world, possibly Kay’s, where eToys could be traded without worry, an ePenis or eVagina would be of no concern.
As one child’s parent said to me, “We like to keep it real.” This is in response to my confrontation with her, “Why is your boy showing my kids, porn?”
The inherent problem Kay sees, is a social / political issue, that no technology can solve. He has defined a target outside the model of an interactive device. He needs to split it in two. One of a device capable of definition “A” and a society of practice “B”.
In some small way, Kay is full of crap. He’s micromanaging the definition of the theoretical device, because he doesn’t want someone to create it within his lifetime, most likely because he can’t doit himself. If you examine what is labeled as a prototype, it looks more like a clay model, non-working, and IO deficient. With near future verbal IO and current touch, a keyboard is hardly necessary.
Apple has come closer than anyone in designing a DynaBook, something I have never heard of, before today. Steve Jobs saw, that it doesn’t need a keyboard and mouse.
Porn is ‘keeping it real’ ? Wow. And to kids no less.
“We like to keep it real.”
Rape-murder, bestiality, torture, cannibalism are all real. Exposing kids to any of these things with that vacuous justification is just bullshit.
Depending on how old your kids are, you way want to consider whether these people and their children are suitable company for your family. Or maybe ask your children to leave the situation.
Our kids are not allowed in their house and vise versa. Outside interaction is limited but not unavoidable. We live on the same street.
The real problem with the ePenis is that some jerk would hide a virus or trojan or othe malware in it (or on it, in the case of the Trojan). Just look at Google Play for proof of how well Kay’s vision of “openness” works in reality.
In a theoretical society, openness and a lack of threat, go hand in hand. People wouldn’t consider a virus to be worth creating.
Imagine, an open society without secrets, and without privacy. Creating objectionable content, porn and viruses, lead back to the creator, without delay. The creator can’t be separated from the content. Therefore who would go through the trouble if they got caught.
Kay’s plan requires Big Brother, without question.
sounds like sour grapes to me…
Sounds like Cory Doctorow to me.
Just because you invented the engine or the wheel doesn’t mean you deserve credit for inventing trains and cars. And it certainly doesn’t give you the right to begrudge mr. jobs or apple for taking existing technology, even yours, and using it to make 140 billion more dollars than you were making with it. Yeah, you wish you had a bigger house, I get it, but you dont, and the only person to blame for that is you.
I don’t man it sounds to me like the guy isn’t happy with how the UIs we use now turned out when compared to his original vision of what it would be.
Not everything is about money.
That Dynabook’s physical keydboard UI with only part of the tablet having screen is horrible, so I am very glad it never happened.
where were his complaints when the Macintosh came to market… he’s just a sorry ass – apple found a way around his patented royalties on companies needing to licence his mouse idea – lol
Kay-serra-serra!
Que sera sera
No sh-t! The article was about a guy named KAY – doofus.
As one friend (founding director of a billion dollar company) put it, “Everybody and their dog has a good idea. The point is, can you bring it to market?” There are a lot of ideas WAY more important than “symmetric authoring and consuming” that have not become the status quo — like how to have a vibrant industrial economy without poisoning ourselves and our children.
What are youtube, minecraft, and many sites and web applications? These are the embodiment of symmetric authoring and consuming. I try to encourage my kids to make videos, or create their own content, however it’s too hard. I mean, they can or could do it. But the hurdles discourage them.
At least in minecraft, you can make towns and villages easily, which can be used, interactively by others. But alas, they are mostly destroyed.
“But alas, they are mostly destroyed.”
Do you think that might have something to do with the MINE part of that title, by any chance?
touché
Real artists ship.
We also hear from Tim Berners-Lee about how the web has been perverted and ruined, with almost the same argument. Humanity, so be it.
Please. Alan Kay is a brilliant guy but he never fleshed out the UI for the DynaBook. It was a broad brush concept that dealt mostly with the form factor.
You described the M$ Courier.
and time passed him by
with touch screens and virtual keyboards
his minds eye could not see beyond the splinter of his own ego
– he is a failure
Is this guy fucking kidding?!
It’s the most natural and intuitive user interface ever. A two year old can pick it up and their first natural instinct is to touch it – iPad responds and the rest is instant user control…
The iPad UI had to follow Apple’s HIG (human interface guidelines) which were laid down during the development phase of the iPhone which preceded the iPad to market but was in actual fact developed after it.
Steve Jobs saw that the smartphone market was ripe for the picking and released the iPhone in 2007 which became a commercial success. The iPad builds upon the iPhone base and shares many UI characteristics with the iPhone but obviously where it departs from the iPhone, it is to take advantage of the larger screen.
But you have to remember that human fingers don’t grow bigger as the screen size increases so the touch elements must retain consistency across screen sizes. If there were marked differences between the iPhone UI and iPad UI that would slow the development curve because users would have to learn a new way of navigating the screen and developers will have to adopt a different approach towards each product line. This would introduce severe fragmentation as UI elements are broken across the range and concepts have to be relearned anew.
This is why Airbus, and to a lesser extent, Boeing cockpits try to keep as much commonality as possible across aircraft sizes so that pilots do not have to be extensively and expensively cross trained when they fly different aircraft classes. This is known in the industry as an overall approach towards designing for familiarity and keeping fragmentation to a minimum.
I’m afraid Alan Kay is talking bollocks here.
Alan Kay only theorizes but rarely puts anything into practice. The difference in thinking up ideas and actually testing them out is Kays biggest failure. His view of the iPad UI is completely off base, most likely because he doesn’t have one nor never tried.
I say to hell with all you theorists and philosophers. For me I want something that works without need of a 3 lb manual, and can be taken nearly anywhere and get instant internet access.
The iPhone/iPad duopoly are the first, and finest, products to meet that criteria. Even with all the copying, Second place is still three years behind.
Well as I barely understand a word he says I rather feel very glad that his ‘pure’ concepts stayed in the lab and for the use of academics and geeks like him. Certainly judging by this example of his communication skills, ease of use and realtime public accessibility doesn’t seem at the forefront of his intellectual thinking, at least the reality rather than his highbrow misinterpretation of the concept anyway.
I will agree with Kay on one point. the Etch-a-Sketch shake to undo is cute for awhile, but it gets old pretty fast. Plus, I sure would like to undo closing Safari windows on my iPhone.
a bitter old man that’s gonna die soon. wants to take everyone down with him. he can GFH.
this from snide younger man who will die sometime later having done nothing to justify his existence.
(WP) Kay is one of the fathers of the idea of object-oriented programming, which he named, … He conceived the Dynabook concept which defined the conceptual basics for laptop and tablet computers and E-books, and is the architect of the modern overlapping windowing graphical user interface (GUI).[3] Because the Dynabook was conceived as an educational platform, Kay is considered to be one of the first researchers into mobile learning, … After 10 years at Xerox PARC, Kay became Atari’s chief scientist for three years.
“This could not be farther from the original intentions of the … ’60s and ’70s”
And so are boomers driving luxury german automobiles, golfing in the desert, and brewing coffee using disgustingly wasteful single-serve made-in-China Tassimo machines. Yet here we are.
The people have spoken — most are consumers, not creators.
A bunch of old biddies criticizing Alan Kay is like bad mouthing Columbus because his ships were wooden.
You people don’t have a clue as to what he is talking about.
I think most if us are pretty clear. The personal computing revolution was supposed to be about creation. Building something. Contributing. That each user would possess the tools for programming. The internet & HTML too was about authorship. Every “reader” would be a “writer”. Every consumer would be a creator.
All of this was simply wrong. Most people are passive, lazy consumers. Sad, but true.
Which is what Alan Kay was talking about. Not the “walled garden” controlled by the media companies and IP laws. Not the virus and malware landscape waiting to trap us all.
I met Alan Kay in 82 while he was with Atari when he came up to Seattle to speak to our Atari User group and I used to use his ideas as an example when I spoke to teachers as I was doing education sales at the time. I pointed to Papert and Mindstorms and eidetic thinking. Pilot and Logo and computing in the DynaBook paradigm.
In effect, information wants to be free a concept that was realized upon the birth of the information age.
I don’t understand how they can look at what Kay envisioned at a time when computers filled rooms and criticize him and his 50 year ahead of time thinking. So the iPad doesn’t have a physical keypad like the DynaBook. You can still write a poem and send it to someone sitting on the other side of the tree from where you are.
Our problem is human nature, not the nature of computers.
I hear you. I’m saying that if Kay’s criticism of the iPad is that it betrays the DynaBook’s “…original intent … symmetric authoring and consuming”, then it’s as you say: the problem is human nature. The iPad was designed for real people. The DynaBook was “designed” for an imaginary population Kay (and others) assumed would embrace authoring (by which he means programming).
Glad to see someone gets it.
I shake my head at these normal people. I’m lucky enough to get to work with creative people every day (programmers, writers, designers, and even suits).
But then we’re all happy to keep driving our “trucks” (Macs), even as the rest of the world moves to “cars” (iPads).
His ideas, published about the same time as the likes of Star Trek, hippies and idealists.
My heart goes out to them all.
Steve Jobs was also of this generation, Kay’s was older, but he was in thick of it. Hacker’s ethic, freedom of information.
The real issue here, consideration of monetization of art and ideas.
All of Western society would have to give up its fortunes to give up industrialization, open the walls, and let knowledge roam free.
I think he focussed on children and education, as that would have little impact on the economy. A walled garden, between common adults and children the world over, where all educational and collaborative apps are free, guarded, and observed. Children can be children and create anything for all other children, preferably without concern for language.
Always had respect for Kay, except like others have alluded to… he’s not a doer. The iPad makes the Dynabook look like a piece of junk. I just played a game of mini golf with people around the world on my fuxking phone.
Get a clue Kay…
Ah yes. The oxen in the field that advanced farming so far ahead of it’s time.
Not a doer? Was Da Vinci a doer? Was Einstein?
Where is Kay’s consumer products? Where’s HIS Dynabook? He’s pointing the finger and criticizing people and the industry yet he’s failed to produce the Dynabook himself.
If he has such a vision, then he should go out and build it. You don’t sit on the sidelines and call the shots after they’ve happened and expect to still have all of your credibility.
Uhhhhhmmmmm.. the iPad. Google glasses.
There’s no such thing as “a myriad.” Myriad is an adjective meaning “innumerable.” Something may be “very poor in myriad ways.” i.e.; ” … very poor in innumerable ways, not “very poor in a myriad of ways.” i.e.; “… very poor in an innumerable of ways.”
I can’t believe we are criticizing him on a website which includes collaborative content from users all over the world.
In 1968 was the “Mother of all Demos” showing a thing called computing, using a mouse for graphical interface, with full networked collaboration — a demonstration ultimately replicated by Steve Jobs at Next.
The WorldWideWeb was created to foster collaboration and away from a monolithic system controlled by a company that limits the group superbrain.
Such collaborative technology was created in the late 1960’s. What are the current breakthroughs that will be as transcendent 30 years from now? It’s good to keep the eye on the prize and not on where the puck is, to humorously mix my metaphors.
Hasn’t got a punched card reader…
I am an “everything” apple guy, and I have converted many people to the “apple way”. I have 2 Macs, and ipad and an iphone and will buy an apple TV next. IOS, however, was always a compromise. It is absolutely brilliant in many respects, but infuriating in others. Why, for instance, do my contacts always default to USA for country when my defaults are all set to Australia?
Jonny Ive will bring great changes. Lets not get complacent – constructive criticism is incredibly useful and this guy has worthwhile things to say, even if you don’t agree with everything he says…
Settings->General->International->Region Format->Australia.
It’s Alan KAY’S way of asking for an eToy. He must want to die having the most eToys…so he wins. Even at his age he is still a kid. Bless his soul.