Where on Earth could Samsung get the iPhone 5 banned over 4G/LTE patents?

“In the context of Friday’s dismissal of a Japanese Apple lawsuit against Samsung, I mentioned (as I previously did on other occasions) that the problem of the Android camp in general and Samsung in particular is that they can’t score meaningful offensive wins against Apple,” Florian Mueller writes for FOSS Patents. “Fending off patent lawsuits is not enough when facing a company with a fast and large-growing portfolio of relevant patents. Defensive wins merely delay the inevitable.”

“What Samsung needs are enforceable injunctions over impactful non-standard-essential patents. Thus far, Samsung hasn’t won any injunction of that kind,” Mueller writes. “It previously relied largely on standard-essential patents (SEPs), and a Korea Times report published on Friday suggests that Samsung is once again contemplating a multijurisdictional push for preliminary injunctions against a new iPhone (or iPad 4G): ‘Samsung confirmed that it will immediately sue Apple if the latter releases products using advanced long-term evolution (LTE) mobile technology.'”

Mueller writes, “It tried this trick last year with 3G patent assertions against the iPhone 4S, with a hit rate of zero. I would strongly discourage Samsung from trying to use 4G/LTE-essential patents to shut down the iPhone 5. It won’t improve Samsung’s position. It will only make things worse, especially with antitrust regulators. In my view, the reasonable approach for Samsung would be to sue for FRAND royalties over its SEPs, not injunctions.”

Read more in the full article here.

38 Comments

    1. Apple buys radio chips from companies that supply the same chips to other manufacturers. Apple’s argument, quite rightly, is that licence fees for those patents should already have been paid, so why should Apple have to cough up twice.

      1. Because every settler gets looked at by an iPhone user in a way that makes them mad. So to try and right the wrong that has been done to them they want Apple to give up and pay everybody anything that’s asked of them, for this would surely make iOS and the Apple experience as bad as what they’ve come to love with Android, and therefore wouldn’t warrant the pity they receive.

      2. And yet the recent decision against Apple in a Korean court was over Apple using Scamdung IP, in the form of Intel chips for which Intel had licensed the Scamdung IP.

        Your point makes sense to honest people, but not Koreans.

    2. “Well if Samsung own the rights then charge
      The fruit company 500 per fone . i don’t care if its fran. Dan or spam.”

      What YOU don’t understand and cannot seem to fathom is that when under FRAND and the direction that Samsung took – THEY GAVE UP their rights legally to an outright ban of their own IP. Shucks, you are in bad company with Samsung! They can’t seem to comprehend that either!

    3. And here Ladies and Gentlemen : exhibit A.

      A typical Fandroid idiot without a clue hard at work to spill out his irrational hate against Apple while completely ignoring all facts. Born in hell pits of like minded fandroid idiots these Google minions circle jerk to find the stupidest argument against Apple. The stupidest wins the honour to enter an Apple focused forum and die as a miserable troll. A sad life.

    4. Chris, I will make this as simple as possible. FRAND stands for Fair Reasonable and non Discriminatory

      When you lobby a standards organization to have your patented technology become part of a standard (like 3G cellphone communications) you pledge to license it at a reasonable rate.
      If Shamesung would attempt something as stupid as you suggest (charging outrageously for SEP’s) would land in court not (just) with Apple but with governments & standards regulators, to which it pledged FRAND status (of the patentets) during their push to have them included in the standard.
      For instance Apple (successfully) pushed to have it’s sim design (most of it anyway) declared as “the” new standard or cell phones. It has now pledged those patents to Fair reasonable and non discriminatory licensing. It can’t now turn around and try to charge $500 per license to Samesung. (because shamesung HAS to license to make a cellphone compatible with the rest of the world. That is what standards are for.

      That is why Samesung and Moto (via google) are so pathetic trying to leverage standards essential patents (SEP’s) The companies had to agree to reasonable licensing (FRAND) as a part of petitioning to have their patents incorporated into the standard.

      I am writing to you as I would an 8 year old because you appear very confused, and truly don’t seem to understand.

    1. Samsung may be stupid but they aren’t that stupid. Mueller is only a self proclaimed ‘patent expert’ – the guy is not a lawyer and has never worked in law. Joe at the corner grocer has the same credentials as mueller when it comes to patent law.

      The dude is a blogger. Only the truest of morons hire bloggers, geniuses like Oracle who then go on to get their @sses handed to them in court 😉

      1. Mueller is quoted by news and tech outlets around the world on a regular basis. You’re some commenter.

        So yea- you and Joe the grocer will be quoted as frequently by the press.

        1. I don’t claim to be an expert on patents so there is the difference.

          Florian reminds me of the kind of guy who hires a carpenter to remodel his house and then tries to tell the real expert how the job should be done. The guy is a toolbox.

          Quoted by news and tech outlets? The same ones everyone here claims are morons whenever an apple story hits the wire? lol.

          I stand by my statement. The man has no credentials in law.

      2. Yes, he is a self proclaimed patent expert with one heck of a lot of experience. “About me

        Introduction Florian Mueller is an award-winning intellectual property activist-turned-analyst with 25 years of software industry expertise spanning across different market segments (games, education, productivity and infrastructure software), diverse business models and a variety of technical and commercial areas of responsibility, enabling a holistic perspective. Florian advises clients on the patent wars surrounding mobile devices, and on their economic and technical implications. His consulting services are available directly (contact form, LinkedIn profile) as well as through two primary research firms (Gerson Lehrman Group, Coleman Research Group) serving the financial community. (In order to avoid conflicts of interest, Florian does not hold or initiate transactions in any technology stocks or derivatives thereof.)”

  1. apple argues with such childish design patents in court last time. Samsung can sue whatever they want. why apple can, why samsung can’t. you fucking apple fanboys. clearly, LTE technology is own by Samsung. if they will sue, Apple can’t put it in their iphone 5. then people won’t buy such an outdated device ever. who will win, dumbass fanboys? if you want to fight with patent, don’t even try like design patent. it’s changed all the time. its lifespan is short. technology patent is more important. Samsung has 10 times more than apple in terms of patent. do you think that Samsung is moron. I think that apple is closed the line. if Samsung would be willing to sue, now there is no apple, nada long time ago. they just want to work together. apple doesn’t realize ecosystem. I guess that it is just matter of time that apple will be disappeared behind the history soon.

    1. You’re way too dummed, can you understand that apple mostly purchased the LTE chips from a manufacture who already pay for the licensing fees. Apple is not as stupid as you think, they are not just going to start using a technology which could bring them many legal problems. Simply samsuck can not get pay for the same technology twice…..

  2. It may be desperate but what other options does Samsung have? Apparently not many!

    These guys are getting cleaned out in court, they are going to pull out all the stops and do whatever they can to turn the tide. It doses not matter that suing over FRAND patents might land them in more trouble later, they are short term thinkers.

  3. If FRAND patents are granted with the contemplation of industrywide fair access, can FRAND status ( and therefore the patents) be rescinded by the grantees, when their owners blatantly abuse the status, like Samsung?

    1. Samsung has licensed their FRAND patents under the sub category CRAP ( Copy Relenlessly And Pray), therefore releasing them from any moral obligation.
      The KCM ( Korean Copy Machine) has granted Samsung a license to steal in perpetuity .

      I am not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

  4. I thought AAPL and other companies formed a LLC named Rockstar, LLC. (with MSFT, Nokia…etc) and purchased patents from Nortel including LTE. Am I missing something here?

    1. No, you’re not.

      There are literally thousands of patents that go into a standard like 4G LTE.

      “4G LTE” isn’t a simple “standard” in the sense of 220V electricity, or a certain grade of fuel that refineries have to comply with, or standard sizes of thread on screws or bolts, etc.

      This is a very complex technology, and lots of companies have contributed pieces of the puzzle to make a platform that makes interoperability of devices possible.

      So, Samsung has like 4% of the patents, something like that. Yet, it wants to charge Apple an exorbitant rate that no other licensee is ever charged for ALL the technology.

      It has fastened on 2.5% of the total retail price of the ENTIRE iPhone, when the LTE chip is a minor part, and Samsung has maybe 4% of the IP in that one part. There is no precedence for this (no successful precedence — of course Motorola is trying the same thing with Apple).

      Samsung thinks that it is not fair that the iPhone is successful, and it thinks it can get away with this because it says it only takes “a single bullet to kill”! IOW, if not for Samsung’s 4%, LTE wouldn’t work at all.

      Basically, Samsung is trying to hold Apple to ransom. It’s highway robbery, pure and simple. And the Korean Government is supporting it. Which is why there may be political repercussions. You can’t have “standards” and have this kind of insane activity going on.

  5. We have about 28,500 troops in 107 installations in South Korea. If they can not get Samsung to striation up. Tell the South Korean Government we are pulling out all troops and close everything down. Let them fend for themselves.

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