“Since dropping out of MacWorld and most of the other big electronics/computer shows, WWDC (The World Wide Developer’s Conference) in San Francisco has become Apple’s most important venue for product announcements,” Scott Bourne writes for Photofocus. “The emphasis on mass market mobile is clear. Those of us in the professional photography community need to understand that we are no longer targets of Apple. They aren’t a pro apps company or a hardware company they are a mobile company. In so far as you are interested in mobile – then they are one to watch.”
Bourne writes, “There was a minor point release to Aperture (not really discussed at the keynote.) It offers a white balance brush, compatibility with the new retina display and a few other goodies, but it’s nowhere near the kind of upgrade that Lightroom got, moving from LR3x to LR4x. I’m officially done with Aperture – as of today my staff has begun the migration to LR4 and I won’t be switching back. Even if Apple does a major Aperture update, it’s going to be too late for me. I’m not a fan of their approach when it comes to the pro market and while it may make perfect sense for them from a business point of view, it doesn’t serve customers like me.”
“Aperture’s library now fully integrates with iPhoto’s library. Does that ring a bell with anyone but me? iPhoto is a purely consumer product. Aperture was originally touted, marketed and sold as a professional application and was managed by Apple’s pro apps team. Does anyone really think there’s a place for integration between a free consumer photo app that kids use in grade school and a pro app like Aperture?” Bourne writes. “This is like the Final Cut Pro debacle. Apple essentially has decided that the broader consumer market is more profitable so pro apps are history. I can’t and don’t blame them from a purely business point of view.”
Read more in the full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Lots of conclusions being jumped to, including claiming that the Mac Pro was dead even after Apple CEO Tim Cooke promised that Apple was working on a professional Mac for later next year. And FCP X is not a debacle. It’s quite the opposite, actually. Try to keep current.
And why shouldn’t consumer and pro apps share the same libraries? How do you expect interested consumers to become pros? Does it make sense to have the “consumer” and “pro” video, film, and photography apps completely separate and noninterchangeable or does it make more sense for them to share certain lowest common denominators in order to not only smooth the upgrade path, but to also improve support?
Writing as former “pro” video and film producers, videographers and editors, the so-called “pros” need to get over themselves. The “consumer” software and hardware available today runs rings around everything the “pros” had to work with for decades. It’s not about the tools you use, it’s about the results you produce.
Related articles:
Tim Cook: Apple is working on professional Mac for ‘later next year’ – June 12, 2012
Apple unveils all new MacBook Pro with stunning Retina display – June 11, 2012
PC Magazine reviews Apple’s Final Cut Pro X 10.0.3: Editors’ Choice for high-end video editing – February 7, 2012
I tried to tell you.
Dr. Pill?
That’s funny every single time.
It aint over till Apple throws in the towel and Apple won’t.
That’s like complaing that Photoshop Elements and Photoshop CS 6 work on the same PSD files. Crazy talk.
I think they have been stepping on too many toes lately. Lack of hardware with Xserve and Mac Pro. Cutting corners on software like Aperture, OS X Server, Final Cut, to websites like Education custom sites and AppleCare GSX site that feel like they are incomplete and not useable. If they keep on this path I might make my decision a little more serious and get out of this tech business.
To take issue with one point: “Cutting corners with Final Cut” completely wrong misinformed opinion. I use FCPX daily for work, and have stuck with it since day one. They rewrote the program from the ground up, and now at 10.0.5 it’s the most feature rich, robust video editing program available. It still has little bugs like any “new” software (One year old next month) but its still such a joy to work with creatively. Apple has put a lot of love into Final Cut.
I agree. I think what the Pros are trying to say is, they’re not really professional without their tools, especially if their software doesn’t say, “Professional” on the box.
Really? Seriously? How about features are missing? As in not there. Or how about this? They took features that are used in everyday production environments, both large and small, and buried them so that it now take 6 or more clicks to access them. These are features which your average consumer doesn’t use so it makes sense to hide them. Or how about the absolutely abysmal (as in not even worth using for the smallest fixes) audio sweetening and color correction/grading tools included in the program. Or how about the biggest joke of them all? Their file management paradigm. 15 TBs of media is visible all at once unless you disconnect drives? Who uses desktop drives like that in a production setting? And who wants to see over 100K assets that have nothing to do with the project you’re working on?
They took more than a few of the pro features out (or more accurately didn’t put them in), buried them or watered them down to the point where only an ametuers who doesn’t know the difference would be pleased.
When you have significant experience with NLEs and what levels they had reached then maybe you’ll be taken seriously. Until then you’re just like all the other wannabes. You think your new souped up clown car is better because it’s faster than the old Batmobile us old timers are used to driving. But that ridiculous car will only take you so far and get over, under, around or through so many barriers.
So why are you still hanging around if Apple won’t deliver what you want?
Apple doesn’t need your business anymore. get used to it.
Are you a PC switcher? When did you come over to Apple?
Tell us what you really think of Apple?
File management now, really? Wow, you’re full of shit aren’t you. You’re really digging deep with that one. Scraping the bottom of the barrel.
If you’re trying to hurt my feelings by bad-mouthing Apple, it will never work.
I’ve been with Apple since 1979 and I’ve developed really thick skin over the years listening to PC weenies like you run Apple down.
…hurt your feelings? I was addressing real issues not your obviously low self esteem. It sure doesn’t seem like you have a thick skin. Just a really thick skull.
“When you have significant experience with NLEs and what levels they had reached then maybe you’ll be taken seriously.”
Same here. You are an anonymous coward. Say what ever you want, you’ll get no respect here as long as you continue to bad-mouth Apple. There are more appropriate “professional” forums for this kind of dialogue.
You’re mistake was believing anyone here would sympathize with you.
All of the crap you claim Apple has put you through sounds as though you suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.
Wow! You’re just a regular old turd with nothing to do, hey? I’ve been with Apple since 83. I’m not bashing them you retard fuck. Learn to read. I’m bashing their subpar product.
And I’m not looking for sympathy from you or anyone else here even though there are people here who agree with me.
And if you think file management within the app is scraping the bottom of the barrel then that just proves what an imbecile you really are.
And you’re right. There are more appropriate professional forums. Just because this is a fanboi forum (aren’t you a little old to be such a fanatic?) doesn’t mean you have to constantly wallow in your ignorance. Go back on your meds.
Unlike you I’m not looking for respect here. If I got it out of the likes of you I’d figure I was doing something majorly wrong. Someone asked what the issues were. I answered. For myself. You answered like you had a fucking clue and spoke for Apple and everyone else. Time to get a life, pal.
Anonymous? WTF does that have to do with anything? Coward? Hardly. You’re just a pissed off fanboi because not everyone is perfectly happy with everything Apple. They may be the best at a lot of things. But they’re not perfect.
If the time comes when I need to switch platforms I will. Until then I’m happy to just tread water. It’s what we’ve been doing for 6 years now. Have a nice night. I hope you feel better in the morning. 😉
You are dead on, if a bit harsh. It would be so much better if the Apple pro photog defenders would actually support–no, fight for–recognition by Apple in its products. I was ready to make the switch, spending thousands of dollars to convert totally to Apple, until I found out that their new retina macbooks do not have dvd/cd drives. I WILL NOT be dictated to, or be forced to carry clunky add-on devices to add to my skinny laptop. A non-starter. And, worst of all, I could not believe how arrogant and dismissive the barely no-longer-a-kid was when I went to the Apple store and found out omission. Really stupid of Apple. They could be getting new high end customers at a premium instead of abandoning us.
Agreed. FCPX is now quite good and getting better.
I’d like to know which lack of features the pros are still looking for in it. I know there are still some things we might want, but too few to keep us away from FCPX.
Pros, name the features you’re still missing.
Thats good to hear then…..I have heard nothing but bad things especially when it came out. I think that still stuck too and people have that opinion on it now. Makes sense to rebuild it from the ground up to get better performance, 64bit, etc. Glad to hear you guys like it though, hopefully that spreads to more peoples opinions and gets rid of the negative image it has.
Then stop spreading negative images.
No kidding.
I miss the export to tape, the flickr and deinterlace filter. Without this, I can’t work. I’m still on the older final cut.
Agree! Apple is all about the FaceBook generation and little else.
Wrong MacDailyNews. Listen to your pros. Do what they want and ask for. There is always a common ground and options should be made available to do what the pros ask. Regular consumers will buy the pro aps as long as try stay user friendly like apple has done. Don’t alienate those who are doing the real quality work. I want a pro app, not an app made for the lowest common denominator. I am not a pro by the way but I like the pro to be happy and keep Apples reputation with them solid.
+100!
Pro products are aspirational. Nearly every type of product uses this tack. Cameras, cars, bicycles, appliances, sporting goods, you name it. Your customers start out on the low-end, but dream of growing up and into the REAL deal… the PRO products.
Who does Apple think kept them afloat in the dark years of the late 90s? That’s right, us PRO users.
The fact that Apple is “promising” an upgrade to the Mac Pro in 1 1/2 tears is in insult! What would a speed bump, with a few Thunderbolt ports take to produce?
They will do the upgrade right.
Remember, Steve was against having Any slots for expansion.
“Remember, Steve was against having Any slots for expansion.”
—
Steve was also reportedly against apps on the iPhone. Thankfully he wasn’t afraid to change his mind if it made sense.
Well, you did the a slight speed bump, but I agree, I can’t understand them leaving off Thunderbolt on this interim refresh.
Who does Apple think kept them afloat in the dark years of the late 90s? That’s right, us PRO users.
Mre wants everyone to believe he and the Pros saved Apple.
What would a speed bump, with a few Thunderbolt ports take to produce?
There’s a pro talking for ya’. All Apple has to do is add a a speed bump and thunderbolt ports to a Mac Pro and call it a day.
Please tell us you meant a bump in speed and not a bump in the road.
Let’s hope the people running Apple are professional businesspeople and not pros.
Just because the package says Professional, doesn’t make you one.
Agreed 100%.
All the Apple apologists can say what they want but us Pro’s, that kept the company afloat through the hard times and evangelized the platform are now being left for dead.
And the new pro diligently in the makin will be all things pros to everyone… Rome wasnt built in a day.
That’s funny Thomas, I never saw you around campus.
What line of work did you say you were in?
I disagree. This still is the same company that has a long history of pioneering the advancement of the newest and best technical standards. Apple recently adopted Retina Displays, fast Thunderbolt ports, USB 3, Bluetooth 4.0 and touch screen interfaces on both the iPad and the Mac. In the past, the company has been first with accurate and reliable display calibration that just worked, WYSIWG software technologies and a clean, minimalist OS that gets out of the way of content, something Microsoft has never understood. That’s hardly leaving professional photographers for dead.
So what if they temporarily fall behind in CPU processing power every now and then, as may be the case at the moment with the lack of the latest processor technology in the Mac Pro tower? Computers are undergoing a titanic technological shift right now, and this takes time to manage across many product lines. Personally, I’m glad Apple has become a successful consumer company, because it means it will be able to support a small, vertical market like professional photography. This sounds like some people have forgotten about the dark days before OS X, when we all feared we might lose Apple altogether.
So, photographers should take the long view and give Apple the time it needs to properly develop new products. Sometimes they’re ahead of the curve, sometimes they’re behind. But Apple always is there, innovating and pleasing.
“I want a pro app, not an app made for the lowest common denominator. I am not a pro by the way but…”
Spoken like a pro. Paraphrasing loosely: I want a pro app, not an app made for the lowest common denominator; in other words anyone who buys Apple software but isn’t a pro, isn’t worthy of professional-grade apps.
If I’m right about you, then you have insulted everyone on these boards who are regular consumers.
Idiot.
You must be the most pathetic Apple fanboy I have ever seen. In your world Apple can do no wrong, never mind the facts. Moron.
But your mom swallows so it’s all good.
“Listen to your customers and do what they want”
That’s the philosophy which bankrupted GM. WAY too many consumer groups, focus groups, surveys, etc. which result in bland, vanilla, no-forward-thinking products.
The fact is the Pro and Consumer markets are merging. The processing power of an iMac these days is far superior to a high-end computer of just 10 years ago. The software has also jumped forward. Within 5-8 years, there may not be much difference between Pro and Consumer apps, if any. Heck, we even have a basic iMovie for iPad and iPhone now. Just imagine what will be done in 10 years time on mobile devices.
The problem with many Pro users, no matter what field we’re discussing, is that they are very comfortable with their current tools and typically just want incremental upgrades or added features. A surgeon is used to cutting with scalpels, and when you introduce lasers, it is a foreign world and some always wonder why mess with what works.
In order to move ahead, changes have to be made and old, comfortable conventions often abandoned. This leads to periods of unrest, but eventually brings about better tools and better end results.
If Apple listened to its pro users, it would never be able to reinvent a market, or drastically rewrite anything, because the majority of pro users would tell Apple not to change things much, just add little here and there.
And then you would get Microsoft.
You are correct. But… The difference isn’t in the horsepower. How many people need a tach? Or an oil pressure gauge? Just a pro race car driver. Everyone else can make do with the idiot lights.
That’s what FCP X has become. Vector and parade scopes? Output to broadcast monitors? Audio sweetening and color correction/grading tools? All nonexistent or dumbed down to idiot lights, templates and “good enough for consumers” output. As in YouTube and other places where the quality doesn’t matter because it’s probably going to end up looking and sounding like garbage anyway. Ask a pro audio engineer why their iPod is filled with AIFFs instead of MP3s and maybe you’ll get the idea.
Scott Bourne has it right. When it came to ProApps, Apple used to get it where Adobe was off in the weeds being all self-important. Now, Apple has clearly decided that the ProApp market is too small for such a big, successful company and are migrating to a “ProSumer” approach. Like Bourne saids, this is probably the best move to maximize shareholder wealth. The sad thing is, the Apple of old maximized user experience (and in this case Pro App user).
I switched to LR myself a while ago, and while I would not even consider non-Apple hardware for my work, I’m not going back to Apature (even if they do finally do a worthy update).
Lastly, the MDN take here is laughable and exactly something that Microsoft would use as a defense. Hey, MDN, you lose all credibility when you only fanboy. Kick Apple in the balls when they deserve it and you will be listened to more often. If you said, “Hey Pro’s, you aren’t a big enough market get over it” then I’d say good point. But to say that consumer apps are better than old pro apps and thus we don’t need to evolve is probably the dumest-ass thing I’ve read here in sometime.
Priceless!
I’m not a pro, but I also believe Bourne was pretty much spot on. Note to others above: he was just being matter-of-fact about why he was leaving Aperture and not throwing under the bus.
Agree that the prosumer market is really important here.
The only point where I do quibble with the comment directly above is with this being done only to “maximize shareholder wealth”. It is a business decision, but Apple under Jobs was never about the bottom line first, it was about the products. I think Cook is the same. However, they do choose to focus their work and, in as Bourne points out, they are focusing heavily on mobile and consumer laptop/desktop. I think this is because Apple wants to make great products and this cannot be accomplished when R&D is spread too thin. Yes, that does effect the bottom line, but I do not believe that Jobs’ hand picked successors now walk into a room and say, “let’s maximize shareholder wealth!”. Maybe just semantics, but I think it is an important difference between Apple and MS and Dell, for example.
Agreed. Point well taken.
The fact is the pro markets are very niche and small. Pro and consumer are becoming closer and closer, and within 5-8 years may not be really distinguishable in terms of the software offered (mostly by the results achieved and the budgets provided for the work product).
What is truly amazing is what one can do with just a digital camcorder and a Mac these days. Add some software, and you have the ability to create very nice products.
That’s what Apple is seeing — that as the difference between pro and consumer narrows (both software and hardware), it makes much less sense to continue creating separate products for each market.
Remember, Apple first is a hardware company. So if you’re buying Apple hardware and running other third party pro software on it, Apple is still happy. It probably has you as an iPhone and iPad user as well. That’s where Apple makes its money, not in niche software sales.
Niche and very small yes. But also very influential.
you’re a Prosumer scott, aren’t you? You bought a Macintosh “off the shelf” along with your software. Other than your purchasing power, you have no direct relationship with Apple, no more than you did with Adobe.
The same goes for all you so-called pros. The real pros in photography and video don’t hang out at MDN and share their thoughts with this membership. They have jobs.
You guys might work in the graphics industry, but your the help, not the leadership.
In all the years I have been coming here, Ken Rockwell has never made an appearance at MDN to discuss the merits of pro software, or cameras and lenses.
If you’re a prosumer using Apple software and hardware, I thank you for your continued patronage of Apple, Inc., even if it is only phones and tablets.
The future of mobility is more important than your ability to fix your mistakes. You see professional photographers usually get the money shot using their cameras, not their computers or software.
G4D-
You wrote: The same goes for all you so-called pros. The real pros in photography and video don’t hang out at MDN and share their thoughts with this membership. They have jobs.
CC: Don’t bet the farm on that one …
oooh are you a pro too!
and once again you’re full of it and just antagonistic to be a d*ck, Dualie. Either that or your small mind is overloading again. I got back from doing a project overseas two months ago. Post will wrap in a few weeks. Then I’ll be off for several months until preproduction on the next project starts. I guess I’m not a pro. We won’t talk about the money the job earned (which allows me to be off half the year most times) because I’m sure that doesnt enter into your definition of pro.
Work your 40, buy your six pack and keep trying to get your stuff on Funny Or Die. Maybe try an autobiography. That might be funny and short enough to make the cut. Otherwise just stick to posting your hacked cat videos to YouTube. Peace!
I hit a nerve didn’t I. Maroon.
Only a moron spells moron “maroon”. Imbecile.
Never watched bugs bunny as kid, huh.
What a maroon!
I got back from doing a project overseas two months ago. Post will wrap in a few weeks
So what you’re saying is, your a prosumer too. Big deal. If the shit fits wear it!
I don’t have to work anymore. So I have lots of time to slap all you pros around. So fuck off!
You call that slapping around? Besides Apple not needing my business you haven’t made one intelligent point. You are far less intelligent than I gave you credit for being. Have a nice day first then I’ll fuck off duechbag.
Getting to you aren’t I?
Tim Cook needed to tell people the Mac Pro was coming soon.
If Cook had said we’ll have a major upgrade to the Mac Pro by the end of this year I would have considered that a bit too long given the age of the Mac Pro. But for Cook to say there will be an upgrade to the Mac Pro by the end of NEXT YEAR, well, that is really just too long.
It is almost as though Cook is working on creating a self-fulfilling prophesy where he’ll discourage so many people away from the big iron desktop that by October, 2013 there will only be 10,000 people left in the world that want a monster desktop machine made by Apple.
For the life of me I don’t understand Apple on this point. Why not give the video/photography professionals and scientists that want to crunch big data sets at their desktop a machine they can brag about? There are many bioscientists and social scientist that would love a monster machine from Apple. Should Apple really care whether they make money selling Mac Pros to this segment of the professional and scientific communities? I’d say, no. Consider it a lost leader. Apple should just want this group with them because this is the group that tells their students and colleagues what machine they use and how cool and powerful it is. They help form attitudes and beliefs about what is the “best” computer within the scientific and higher education community.
Apple/Cook you guys are missing the boat when it comes to upgrading the Mac Pro. Put 5 engineers on this and crank out a new Mac Pro using the same box. A skunk works group could bang it out in two months, easy. And most everyone knows it, and that’s partly what makes everyone so crazy on this topic.
Great points all around, but this mega-machine needn’t even be a loss leader. We’re accustomed to paying a premium for Apple’s premium machines – doing it at the normal high price would still work just as well, too. Not doing it at all? Not going to work… at all. Part of the allure of the iPhone is that it comes from a premium high tech company. Now that Apple isn’t pushing the high end high tech, how much longer will that allure last?
For the life of me I don’t understand Apple on this point. Why not give the video/photography professionals and scientists that want to crunch big data sets at their desktop a machine they can brag about?
Why not let someone else cater to the video/photography professionals and scientists?
Obviously, you didn’t get the hint when STEVE JOBS CHANGED THE NAME OF THE COMPANY!!!
One possible danger in the approach taken by Bourne is that if they have to work with a product that has frequent updates they are potentially exposed to a product that is more bug prone and that may burden his staff with having to learn (and unlearn) aspects of the the product to the detriment of production.
I don’t mean to suggest that Luddites will inherit the earth. Rather, I would prefer a stable product that offers me what I need to get the job done. Particularly for commercial applications, I would think that one would want to stay in sync with what the market needs versus trying to force new things on unsuspecting customers.
Huh? I get Apple updates many times a year for my Apple products and software. Adobe isn’t forcing new things on customers, rather customers continue to demand (and pay) for more. I understand Apple’s need to focus to be wildly successful, but that means someone else is going to focus (and update) on market areas where Apple is purposely dropping the ball.
Dropping the ball? I don’t think so. They’re just entering discussions about the merits of going forward with with workstation-class hardware and software, when the whole world is focused on connecting with one another. Hmmm, let’s see, a few billion in hand or several thousand Mac Pro users wanting Apple to keep the dream alive.
Apple has never publicly embraced the pro community. You’ve never had a commercial promoting the “pro” in their software, because Apple believed all along, the things they were making were within the reach of all of their consumers.
Just because I bought a Mac Pro, it doesn’t make me a pro. Just because I own the Creative Suite, doesn’t make me one either.
So all you blubbering on about your being pros and how Apple has turned its back on you, are just jerking off.
We have no idea what’s in store, do we? I suspect Apple has fallen well behind the power curve on a lot of their products that are desktop related.
It’s understandable though, we saw evidence of it, when Apple pulled all the engineers off OS X, to focus on iOS, so it would debut without flaw. That move alone, set Apple back a year.
Aperture and FCP run on top of OS X and halting production or R&D is bound to ripple well into the future of those software products.
Prosumer- not Pro.
Fanbois take note:
PeeCee style Glossy Screens- check
X-Serve killed- check
OS X Lion dumbed down for PeeCee Switchers- check
No real OS X Lion Server- check
iMoviePro X Vista Edition- check
iPhotoPro X Vista Edition- check
QuickTime X Vista Edition- check
2012 Mac “Pro” with no USB 3, BT 4 or Thunderturd- check
It’s all nice stuff- just not Pro stuff. No amount of PR from Cupertino is going to change the evidence that Apple is a consumer wallet mining company.
I’m sure Apple will still respect you in the morning.
Excellent list of proof that Steve was dead serious when he announced that Apple was a mobile device company. No longer interested in the market for pro level machines or software to run on them.
Which is fine if Apple wants to cede Hollywood and the various creative and publishing industries to Windows by 2015.
No competition from Apple on the pro software side means Adobe and others won’t care enough to put the effort into keeping Mac versions of their software up to date. Eventually inertia runs out and people will switch to the only remaining platform able to run their pro software.
Apple abandoning the pro market is a possible signal they’re becoming no better than many companies–focused on the short term and thinking by percentages, not absolute money…
e.g. if Apple’s pro hardware and software only pulls in say $50 million of revenue and costs $20M in R&D, manufacturing, etc, that’s “only” $30M in profit compared to several billion overall… but in absolute terms that’s more profit that many pro-oriented companies pull in across all product lines. There’s no reason Apple couldn’t keep departments focused on pro offerings.
Apple abandoning the pro market is a possible signal they’re becoming no better than many companies–focused on the short term and thinking by percentages, not absolute money…
It could also reflect a company focused on long-term vision of the future and not percentages. You choose to see the glass half-empty.
Scott Bourne is a blowhard. Use whatever tools you like. Final Cut X has changed the way we work. It gets better with every update.
Aperture and Lightroom one up each other every time there is a release. Get over it. Or, distribute your work on VHS.
Yea. Apple rules and never makes a mistake!
Just look at the Newton! eWorld! Performa’s! ADC monitors! The list goes on and on. Now lay off Apple so they can finnish emptying my wallet for the new iOS whatever.
Seriously though, for the money of an outdated MacPro I could have way more advanced hardware from any number of other vendors. Yes, it won’t have OS X and that sucks big but it would be a modern machine for a Pro user.
See. It’s not so easy to dismiss these things when you have Thousands invested in a Pro user environment that need to be up to date to compete. We are Mac users, thats why we are here reading MDN but to blow us off because you want to blindly defend Apple is nuts.
Just try and consider the needs and designers of others before lumping all of us in to the cry baby pile.
See ya thomas. we hardly knew you.
Apple doesn’t need your business or your insults.
I happen to agree that there is no reason for Apple not to have updated the Mac Pro by now, particularly with Thunderbolt. It wouldn’t even have to do a major case revision, just new innards. would satisfy most MacPro users.
That’s Apple’s Achilles heel, if the white hot light of the CEO is not pointed at you, all the lame middle managers and various VP’s will do NOTHING until they have to.
So, everything will languish until the top dogs show interest. It sucks for the pro market, since they are not the revenue kings that iOS is.
The lines between pro and consumer are being erased, in part thanks to Apple’s drive to facilitate the arts, going back to MacPaint, Draw and Draft. MacDailyNews’ comment is right on, I believe. The author’s complaint is akin to those IT guys whose jobs are threatened by the virus free Macs who complain that Macs aren’t industrial enough. I remember those doofuses still joking about my “toy” Mac that went on line with a new modem in five minutes while the PC nerds took a week to get theirs running. Shitty design creates make work. Good for the (false) economy.
The lines are being erased because anyone can use these tools to finish a product. But that just means the bar is being lowered. The more crappy entertainment (template based) programs that get exposure the more used to it the consumer becomes and the lower their expectations become.
Comparing what the average consumer produces to what a pro typically puts out is akin to saying that a secretary with MS Word and clip art belongs in the art department. Funny thing is more than a few think they can do it because the holiday party flier they put on the company bulletin board got rave reviews from their less savvy counterparts.
And PC World? Come on MDN! I can’t remember ever hearing any of my colleagues going to that mag (or any other computer mag for that matter) for advice or reviews on pro grade gear. Get real. Might as well have quoted Dvorak or some David Pogue. Either would have been just as knowledgable on the needs of pros.
So what do you have to say about the Pirate Bay, able archer?
Anyone can download professional software from the internet.
How come you pros aren’t on the pirate bay bitching at all of the consumers who are downloading Photoshop and FCP software for free?
They are your biggest threat and yet here you are complaining to the choir.
I’m not quite sure where you’re coming from Dualie. My point was that its not the tools that create the work. But the ametuers think they can produce at the same level because they have the same tools. Some can. Most can’t.
To steal from Jobs’ own analogy there will always be a need for heavy trucks. But just because you were able to drive that truck 25 feet doesn’t mean you are a competent, let alone adept, driver.
My kid sister, 15 years my junior, can throw together a montage DVD for special occasions like nobody’s business using Apple’s consumer (prosumer to some) software. But she knows it’s not in the same league (doesn’t have to be for her purpose) as the professional DVDs I’ve produced. Nor does she think she has the chops (even with FCP X) to produce a short documentary that both looks and sounds good. Something that, more and more these days, the cable networks can’t seem to do or are unwilling to do. That’s my point.
As far as the Pirate Bay goes I don’t see how it’s relevant to what I just said.
“The lines are being erased because anyone can use these tools to finish a product. But that just means the bar is being lowered.”
Hence my comment about PB. The whole world is stealing pro software off PB and are passing themselves off as pros.
You’re all a bunch of anonymous cowards who can lie through your teeth and we can’t prove any of it. So why bother?
By the way, that was a touching piece about your sister.
Apple forgets that much of it’s cachet came from Pro users and has obviously forgotten that the pro market sustained the company through the darkest of days. So much for being thankful, since most current Apple employees have been hired since AFTER the iPhone launched.
I was there during the mid-90s, and I know exactly how it was.
Apple owes me nothing, though, nor do they owe anything to anyone out there. We were certainly NOT donating money to Apple. When we bought our Macs during Apple’s dark years, we did that for ONE reason only: because Macs were better computers than Windows PCs. The fact that some of us were loyal fans of Apple does NOT mean that we were willing to give Apple our cash for stuff that we knew (or believed) wasn’t better than the competition. In other words, we bought Apple gear because it was better, and we took advantage of that gear to do our daily work. We got our money’s worth. There is absolutely no reason why Apple should somehow be extraordinarily obligated towards a specific segment of their customer base, just because this specific segment might have, at some point, represented a majority of that base.
Compatibility with the Retina display is not a “minor upgrade”. In this update, besides that massive undertaking, Apple also unified the Aperture photo library with iPhoto, integrated it with PhotoStream, and I forget how many other things were fixed and/or improved.
Yes, it is an easy upgrade. Its just nicer icons and what not.
The Bourne Ultimatum.
Took a look at his complete post. He’s a big Apple fan -since Apple II days- but he’s got a business to run and he sees flaws in the Cupertino support for professional photographers.
There isn’t a natural reason for Apple to be in the software business for professional photographers. Whoever works on Aperture is not at the center of anything which would have excited Steve Jobs. Over the long term, I expect Adobe to edge out Apple.
Bourne’s observations about iPhoto are easy to use against him, but they also make his point about the priorities of Apple regarding pro/consumer support and work flow.
There used to be a time when professional photographers were cool. Hollywood made movies about some of them. Apple owes much to them for the great “living” images of the Beatles that we all continue to enjoy.
But Apple’s future comes from a handheld communications device, not a light gathering machine.
Bourne is right.
Or perhaps Tim Cook, just plans to buy Adobe with next quarters earnings and thus didn’t need to invest in ProApps? They are separated by just 5 exits on the 280 and most of the best people at Adobe are ex-Apple with some of the best at Apple being ex-Adobe. Hmmmm
Some of us have been saying this for years.
True.
Apple will never buy Adobe. EVER! Why would they assume responsibility for that can of worms, when they can’t begin to please Scott Bourne.
First, buying Adobe will keep it out of the hands of companies like Microsoft. It is a defensive move. Next, pros use the aps. There is not yet anything to replace Adobe for pros. Next, there really are some powerful tools and features available at Adobe.
Some people hate Adobe, but aps like Photoshop remain the best in the world for what it does. Pros do not equivocate about that. Others don’t know any better.
If Apple does not buy Adobe, and MS does, MS can restrict future upgrades to Windows. May not, but may. Talk about getting pros off the mac platform…that would do it. Adobe doesn’t really cost a lot in the scheme of things.
Apple’s not buying Adobe. But it should.
So you admit, Adobe is weak?
Microsoft buys Adobe? Really? ha ha ha ha hahhh
The blind leading the blind into a ditch. 🙂
If you look at the trio (Videography vs audio production vs photography), photographers are definitely the drummer in the band. As a professional artform, it’s not that deep. I have to ask you photographers out there: shouldn’t you focus on taking great pictures and less on digital manipulation? Or are you just over-production whores? I’m only half-serious, I suppose. But there is a big part of me that just laughs when “professionals” (especially photography professionals) don’t think their digital-manipulation software goes deep enough.
This all comes down to pure laziness. Hey! All you so-called “Pro” photographers, try taking a good picture to start with. It wouldn’t matter if they added every feature under the sun, you so-called “Pros” would find something to bitch about.
These apps have dumbed you guys down. Taking a great photo and learning what your camera can do in different situations was truly an art form. Now my 6 year old daughter can take my 5D and take as good a pic as you so-called “Pros”. Your art has gone from taking great pics to manipulating sub-par pics. I can make my 6 year old’s pic as good as yours with either of these apps. Your ability had become irrelevant.
Just take a bunch of shots and we’ll make ’em look like we want later. Brilliant!!! See what I mean, your not so special more. The more you need these apps to fix your shots the less “Pro” you become.
Organizing a photo library and removing dust specs is one thing. It’s when you have to alter the damn image so much to make it right to “you” that this becomes laughable. You should learn your craft well and be happy with the results. After all , what’s the point of taking a picture of something if your going to destroy it. How many features do you so-called “Pros” need?
Take a good picture to start with and quit bitching.
How the Hell did you guys get buy with film.
Pathetic.
These apps are making you guys’ skills less relevant with every iteration.
Are you guys Pro photographers or Pro picture fixers?
You obviously know very little about pro photography and what software tools we use and for what reasons. You have your daughter go take pictures and try selling those out of camera to a publication, art gallery, PR firm or anyone for that matter. Apature/Lightroom/Photoshop don’t make shitty pictures good. Gear and software don’t make good pictures, but if you don’t have the gear or the software, you work will most times pale in comparison to a pro with those tools.
And btw, in film days you spent hours DEVELOPING shots in the darkroom, much more time than you spent shooting them. With digital, we spend times digitally developing our shots. So developing chemicals and darkroom is the same thing as Apature and Lightroom.
You just made my point. You can’t sell a fricking photo without altering it in software. Have you ever just taken one good pic and sold it without fucking with it?
Like I said, “Pro Picture Fixers”
Name ONE photographer who earn more than $50K a year who does so by selling photos without software developing. I take thousands of excellent photos right out of my cameras each year. However, the people and organizations that PAY for photos, want something more. Every single image in a publication has been “developed”, every piece of ad copy you see with a photo was “developed”, every gallery print you see hanging in a gallery has been “developed”. You can call me names and throw as many F words around as you like, that doesn’t change the fact that professionals use professional software and many of us are switching from our first choice (Apple) to second choice for various reasons. You take that as some kind of personal insult, which is all about you and not the facts.
M&S both have great points. A teenager (non-pro) months ago captured a photo of a plane crash that was distributed by AP worldwide and was published on the front pages of several national newspapers.
That said, pros and prosumers alike should be afforded the best tools at the best price. Level the playing field …
I’m not speaking of you personally Scott. It’s just the general whining every time Aperture is updated. I mean Geez, how many adjustment sliders and effects do you need until you’re happy. I love using Aperture. I can take a pretty good pic and so can my kid. Sure, all she has to do is point and shoot after I set up the camera for her. But hey, a 6 year old has a different view of the world and can really surprise you with what they take a pic of. Some are absolutely cute and thought out and others make absolutely no sense to me. But it’s all subjective. I hope they update Aperture to make it even more fun to use. I personally like to use it for organization mainly. With so many photos it’s nice to have the ability to just look it up using key words. Geolocation is cool too. Although I wish it go into true full screen mode.
Sorry for the rant earlier. It’s a pet peeve I have. Don’t take it personally. I’m glad we have photographers who know what the hell they’re doing. I have a lot to learn but it’s a damn cool hobby. Damn expensive too.
Where’s my Logic 10? Or should I finally consider ProTools?
With the vision in the crystal ball becoming more clear with each passing week, I would say PT is in your future now.
I made the jump from PT to Logic several years ago, and loved it. But I’ve now been using Reaper on a Windoze machine, and love it for what it isn’t – high priced, large and sluggish, form over function. You might look around before jumping into ProTools. It isn’t everything it was once thought to be. Reaper might be too minimalist for you, but it is also very responsive and has a great community.
“Get over yourselves”???
How insulting.
MDN: Your take is typical of the reaction non-pros have to stuff like this.
I highly doubt you were ever A/V ‘pros’ of any sort. No professional would so blithely dismiss fellow pro’s needs in the way you consistently do.
You have no more an idea of the needs of the pro than I have a clue what an astronaut needs to work in micro gravity, and unless the forum participants here use high-end Macs to earn their living they don’t either.
Notice also please gentlemen, that you claim to be **former** video pros. Former as in- got out of the business *before* Apple cut the pro from their focus. Nice for you, not for us.
I’m sorry, you’re just wrong, iMacs and laptops DO NOT fulfill the needs of a specific segment of Apple’s customer base, for you to claim otherwise is illogical and dishonest.
It is a real shame that those unaffected by this shift are utterly without empathy for those -fellow Mac users- that are, to the point where ‘get over yourself’ is the best advice.
Dead on. I just love arrogant blowhards who think they know what’s best for everyone. I read MDN less and less every week. By the time the political conventions kick in I’ll be Ottawa here for good. There are other sites with more mature readers and editors than this one. And more news too. From past experience I’ll be surprised if this comment doesn’t get deleted.
I’m sure someone will call us whiny trolls soon. Welcome to the outside, Geddy. We may not be invited to the fanboy party but at least it’s sane out here.
OMFG! You’re canadian! No wonder you think like you do.
Able Archer and ScottSD will be following the author and move back to PCs.
Double Dead On! If a non-pro learns and uses professional level software, that does not make him a pro. If you use the software to product a product which you then sell, that makes you a pro. If you don’t make your living using a tool, it’s easy to make pot shots, but if you use that tool to pay the mortgage and put food on the table, you then have credibility on the topic. For example, Scott Bourne.
So what, Aperture can no longer be used to produce profession quality photos? A few naming conventions inside the program change, a few new items added and people say it is dumbed down when actually it works better. If it was being dumbed down the UI would be full of eye candy, not turned to shades of gray.
Has anyone considered that just maybe some of the new features they want to release in it will only work within the operating system yet to be released? Or maybe if Aperture is totally being rewritten they don’t want to have another Final Cut X firestorm so they are choosing to hold back of a bit longer?
I love Aperture and while I have been toying with Lightroom, Aperture still offers a better workflow for me.
Apple needs to speed up camera support and release a killer 4.0 upgrade so people will just shut up.
Bourne does this all the time. When some update comes out that he doesn’t like he vocally announces he is switching to the “other guys” and then he will switch back at some later date. He did it with camera systems, completely dumping Canon for Nikon and then buying another Canon less than a year later.
More money than sense.
A truly good ‘Pro’ photographer should be able to produce top quality photos with minimal manipulation. Unless its some whizzy high-concept studio advertising photo, in which case, what’s the problem? Photographers were doing those with a G3 Twin-processor Mac and 1Gb of RAM. Why this obsession with needing 16Gb RAM and all the other stuff?
Fine if you’re rendering huge 3D animations, but no photographer needs that amount of memory and processing power for an image that’ll be reproduced at A4, 300dpi.
The biggest files I used to work on were scanned at 400dpi, A3, and were around 100Mb. I did Photoshop work on those with layers and filters on a G3 with 1Gb RAM, OS9 and dual 425MHz processors.
There’s a saying, ‘a bad workman always blames his tools…’
Have any of you watched ApertureExpert doing a correction to a photo in Aperture. Closing the library and then opening it in iPhoto to do a few more changes. Then closing that library and opening it again in Aperture with the additional changes staying as he went back and forth? How can that be a bad thing? Also two of the correction bricks have been rewritten with some people saying they are getting better white balance on really wacked pictures than they have ever been able to get before.
@dangcookie:
Totally agree. Extensive digital manipulation using tools like Aperture and Photoshop are to bad photo composition as auto-tune is to bad vocal recording (pretty much every hip hop artist out there needs auto-tune because they can’t carry a tune in a bucket).
Sure, it’s nice to be able to fix up a photo that is otherwise amazing but has some flaws like a power line in the shot, but there’s a point that I don’t consider you to be a pro photographer if you are constantly having to rework your photos from practically scratch.
It’s one thing to retouch them, add a vignette, crop, adjust HSL, etc. but I guess as an old school photographer, I try to get the original shot right rather than having to resort to “fixing it in post”. Even iPhoto does the job for me.
As to Apple’s further move toward the consumer, I am dismayed about the Mac Pro. We need an expandable Mac that can drive multiple displays (I have one right now that drives a 5 screen video wall) and has plenty of drive expandability. I could have used a promise for a Mac Pro this year.
That said, the new MacBook Pro proves that Apple is not a mobility-only company. That thing is amazing!
I’ve known a few “pro” photographers, and invariably, they actually consider their picture-taking efforts a failure if they have to touch up any of the pictures they took!
The “pros” need to get over themselves…if they can’t produce work worthy of the photography greats as Ansel Adams, Richard Avedon, Annie Leibovitz, etc…without having a company like Apple kiss their azz with toys and software, they need to STFU.
And how many hours do you think Ansel Adams took developing in the darkroom after he snap his exposure? Read his book, he spend 5 times MORE time in the darkroom to get the effect from his exposure. Who is asking their ass to be kiss? If your preferred company/brand is no longer servicing your needs, you look for alternatives. We are here because we are major Apple fans but doesn’t put food on the table.
I’ve never felt more left behind by Apple than after seeing their updates for mountain lion. It’s obvious that they’re only concerned about the mobile consumers. Bye Apple. Hope you learned a valuable lesson when the people with the deepest pockets migrate away.
I agree and I think us pro’s have a claim to say we helped keep the company alive and yes, also helped it thrive.
Do you think the average consumer was purchasing the first Mac only iPod? No, they were expensive. It was us, the pro’s. Or the first iPhone with its super high cost? No, wrong again. It was us.
You new to mac users don’t realize that without us pro’s there wouldn’t be a Mac for you all to purchase!
Now, go play angry birds while I get some posters ready to print before my son gets home from school.
You imply that Apple survived because some people bought Macs because of some altruistic towards Apple (and this at the time when Jobs was out and the head was one Gill Amelio!!). This makes absolutely no sense. I don’t know about you, but in 1996, I bought a PowerMac 8100 (PPC 601) because it was a better computer for my work than any other Windows machine costing around the same ($3,000). Few years later, I bought PowerMac 8500 (PPC 604), for exactly the same reasons (being, at $2500, much better machine than Windows 95 PCs of similar price). While I was a big Apple fan, I was in no way able to afford to donate money to Apple (by buying their computers rather than others, even if that was a bad deal). As I said before, I bought Apple because it was the best machine for the money. So did vast majority of others. Apple owes me nothing for that (they already did give me something — a better machine than competition).