“Three days after ZDNet ran a piece entitled ‘Coming Soon to a Mac Near You: Serious Malware,’ Daring Fireball’s John Gruber has posted, under the headline ‘Wolf!’ more than a dozen variations on the same theme,” Philip Elmer-DeWitt repots for Fortune.
“They date back to 2004 and all sound a familiar warning: Apple, having achieved critical mass in the market place, is about to get hit by the same waves of viruses, worms, trojans and other species of malware that plague the world of Microsoft Windows,” P.E.D. reports.
Read more in the full article here.
Gruber’s “Wolf!” article is here.
Related article:
Is Mac under a virus attack? No. – May 4, 2011
Really? Two trojans this week alone, and it’s gonna get worse.
Quit being fools. It’s coming, and you better be prepared.
I’ll be back to say I told you so…
I’Caled.
Me too! 🙂
People like Me in LA are like End of the World predictors. Predict something happening every day, and by the law of averages, eventually they’ll be right.
Hardly fool. Don’t be stupid. I’ve been using Macs since 1985, and I am as big a supporter as anyone, just don’t be ignorant to reality and you’ll be fine…
Gosh your silly. If you’ve been using Macs since 85 then you should know that ZDNET is full of it. You are full of BS!
You’re right, don’t be stupid. Don’t download crap from pirate sites or torrents, don’t authorize a sudden ‘application’ installation popup, and don’t even bother clicking on the emails for free pics of _________ naked and you’ll be fine. That is the state of Mac Malware today, same as always for OS X for 10 years. There is your reality
I call BS on your having used Macs since 1985!!!
Bunch of f*gs. I still have every box from every Mac (20+) and the system diskettes from my 512k on up.
I don’t have to justify to you morons – you’re internet bitches with internet balls. So keep on goin’ clowns…
I concur.
Anyone who’s best retort is “Bunch of f*gs…”, has *not* been using Macs since ’85. Just not possible.
What a maroon.
Did I read that right? You are saying “Me In LA” could not have been using a Mac in 1985? Macs were introduced January 24th, 1984.
1985 to 1986 was the big Desktop Publishing era.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh
Some of us even used Aldus PageMaker version 1.
Not everyone is a youngster here. And don’t think for one minute that as we gain market share hackers aren’t going to target us more. No once knows if they will succeed. So far Apple has done a great job with the built-in security of the OS. I’m confident but always vigilant and careful.
I should add I’m confident enough that I have never installed anti-Virus software in my computer or any of the hundreds I have set up for clients (and I spend time to educate them on what not to fall for). Not one compromise yet.
Looks like someone can’t accept criticism.
And by the way, I’m the only Fig here.
Then are you the FIG Newton who used to work for Rumpole?
One of the surest signs of a pc troll is when they make obviously fake claims of being a “longtime Mac user”. They think that gives them credibility, and yet seem not to know that they’re transparently lame.
… RIGHT ! ! ! But, consider … it can either a) get worse b) stay the same or c) get better. And it would be pretty hard for it to “get better”! Really? And, staying the same is unlikely.
I predict … um … THREE Trojans a week by this time next year. There. 50% worse ! ! !
😉
But enough about your sex life…
thezbos use trojans?
Windows on the other hand:
During 2008 Windows experienced the release of 22,000 new viruses PER DAY.
(I wasn’t able to quickly find newer numbers.)
2009: 30,000 per day.
macs suffer from 2 exploits out of 2.
no way do windoze pcs suffer from 30,000 out of 30,000 exploits.
it’s a matter of perspective.
btw, ‘smartphones’ etc are the worst.
I must be missing the sarcasm tag. If you are serious, then quit entering your admin ID and password. Problem solved. If you are joking, try again.
Ohhh well big man you are NA NAAA I TOLD YOU SOOOO
Oh yeah well my dad can beat up your dad ANYTIME
na na booo booooo!!!!
F’n tard.
Guy named Rene calling someone else names? LOL.
I bet you got your ass kicked but good though your sad little life…
I can tell by the way you handle yourself that you weren’t even alive in 1985.
Mister Grady has called you there, Me In LA.
In fact, I’d even wager that you weren’t alive in 1995.
du dummer Esel licker
Palm-Piloted
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! – So funny
http://tinyurl.com/3n48g3y
Dumbasses. How many people who aren’t nerds may fall victim to this? Come on, keep sayin’ it. You fools someday will realize, you don’t know whit about ‘NIX.
What’s your problem asshat? Some reason you feel the need to come onto this forum for the first time in such a profane and rude manner?
I also highly doubt that you have even even owned a Mac, or you would realize that everything you claim is pure fantasy, BS, and flame bait.
Please go troll on the Windows sites…
Right you are Me In LA. Those Kool-Aid drinkers are going to make it a challenge for a hacker to mess with Mac’s. It’s no more difficult than a Windows machine. It just hasn’t been that interesting yet. They’ll be the first to cry once it starts. Hey, they’re just fanboys so what do you expect?
Spoken like a truly jealous pc user.
So how come there were several dozen viruses for Mac OS 9 and below when it had 1.5% to 2.0% marketshare, but there are no viruses for Mac OS X when it has over 10% marketshare?
OH SNAP
You = losing. Also, Windows = losing.
Its pretty sad how Microsoft has convinced so many people that it’s impossible for an OS to have working security.
Great job by John Gruber, as usual.
As John makes clear, we’ve been hearing this same tune for the past decade.
We’ve been using Macs since ’89 and have never experienced any malware incident of any kind. That says it all for us.
Trojans are a long way off from viruses
+1
++
100% true.
Problem is, the computer-using age of folks has gone way up. And many folks may have their first computer. A well-disguised trojan or other human-engineering exploit can get an otherwise smart person to click something bad. Don’t you people think that the average person reading /posting on a tech site is smarter or more knowledgeable than your mother? Grandmother?
Burying your heads in the sand helps nobody, and doesn’t make the Mac any better.
Yeah, but what also goes “way up” as time passes is the tech-savviness of the average user. Sure, there will always be those clueless idiots that will enter their password for anything. But their numbers are dropping, and the vast majority of them own Windows boxes.
——RM
Obviously, you’ve not been watching the MDN boards. There is a profusion of neanderthals who post political screeds. My grandmere was *much* smarter than they.
The only successful Mac malware that I recall was actually MS Office malware from the mid 1990s. I believe that it used macros. My work Mac has been wasting clock cycles for many years running antivirus software and has never spotted anything dangerous to a Mac. It’s all to protect the Windows PC crowd. PC malware is big business.
KingMel, as I recall, there were a few hundred viruses that could infect OS 9. Perhaps someone will remember that number. That’s not much at all, but it was more than one. And, unless something has changed, even today, Macs can house MS Office-specific viruses which generally do nothing except to an occasional MS Office file, but can be passed on to the unenlightened.
> Coming Soon to a Mac Near You: Serious Malware
Yeah, I heard Microsoft is going to be producing more “serious” apps for iOS soon.
Now THAT’S the way to use humor!! 🙂
Since buying one of the very first Macs off the assembly line in 1984, my many, many, many Macs have stayed virus free while running naked in the wild.
Tell me what precisely explains the fact that Mac OS X is invulnerable to viruses, worms, etc.
For the umpteenth time, OSX is BSD Unix. Unix has locks on each file providing various levels of access for individual users to individual files. Only system admins have write privileges to system files. Nothing in the system files can be changed without an admin password. There is no registry.
Windows has a registry that anyone with access to the machine can write to. Windows has system files laying around in the open for anyone with any kind of access to modify.
The differences are so obvious and fundamental that anyone paying attention should be able to recognize that Unix was built for networking whereas Windows was not. Windows security is a patchwork of add-ons. There is no comparison. those who can’t or won’t recognize the difference are either ignorant or trolls.
“In Apple’s security bulletin for the April 22, 2011 release of OS X 10.6.7, I counted 23 separate fixes for vulnerabilities that allow “arbitrary code execution” in the current shipping version of OS X. At least three of those vulnerabilities are new in Snow Leopard and did not exist in previous versions of OS X.
For those who aren’t familiar with security terminology, “arbitrary code execution” means “no user interaction required.” It is the nightmare scenario of online security: The attacker sets up a web page containing hostile code or creates an ordinary looking document, image, or movie file. When you visit that web page or open that document or look at that picture or play that video clip—or even if you just download a file—the attacker’s code runs, potentially giving him complete control over your machine.
No permission dialog boxes pop up, and no password prompts are required.”
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/why-malware-for-macs-is-on-its-way/3243
And fixes mean they were fixed.
I know what “arbitrary code execution” means, and it doesn’t mean “give the hacker complete control over your machine”. It just means some program runs that you didn’t want to run. The problem for the hacker is that this intruder program will just run with basic privileges and not be able to do much.
In order to get the malware to the point where it can do something dangerous, a second type of vulnerability, “privilege escalation” needs to be employed. These are found (and fixed) all the time as well, but virtually always require manual action on the part of the hacker.
That’s the problem with the vast majority of OS X malware scenarios: they’re extremely hard to automate. When OS X is the first OS to go down every year in the “Pwn to Own” hacking competition, notice how every time, every single time, the hacker waits patiently at the keyboard of his hacking box for the victim to click on the bad link.
This is not how malware distributors want to do their business. They don’t want to have to manually root each and every OS X box. They want something they can release into the wild that will automate the hacking for them and make the victim Macs ready to exploit. And that holy grail of OS X hacking is still nowhere near being a reality.
——RM
Plus – being a UNIX system, if you want to install something even logged in as an admin the system will prompt you for userid and password. So you have to stop and say “self, why am I being asked to give credentials here.”
On Windows, if you are logged in as an admin, I believe the virus/malware programs will just execute – which is why the machines get infected and the users don’t know.
Me thinks you need an education on NTFS and Registry permissions on windows. lol.
You can’t just write to the registry with any user account. HKEY_CURRENT_USER sure, but that’s your user profile portion.
Same with the filesystem, you can’t just blast over anything in the system32 folder, you also cannot just modify any system file.
Windows has had fine grained access control on the registry and the filesystem since NT first came out.
The issue has been that *historically* MS never leveraged what was already there. Everyone used to log in as admin, hell I bet a lot of people still do!
As a user of both, I think that UNIX has easier access controls that make more sense and make it easier to secure the OS but Windows is hardly lacking in them, they just were never really leveraged until Vista.
Yes, you are right. Windows has a very fine grained ACL since NT era. That is exactly of problem of lots of non-Apple solution. A too fine grained protection solution is equal to no protection. A way too much of knobs and buttons to average users is equal to no knobs and buttons. That is what Apple’s UI is much better than Android and others. KISS (Keep it simple and stupid).
I wouldn’t expect normal user’s to know how to configure NTFS or registry permissions, nor should they be expected to do that!
Same with OS X, you should not *need* to understand UNIX permissions as an everyday user of the OS.
I do agree that when it comes to permissions KISS is the way to roll, which is why I like the permission system in UNIX much better than NT. Its a much more straight forward approach.
However this guy was claiming you can just write to the registry or filesystem with impunity. That b-shiat.
UIs are a discussion for a different time. I don’t agree with your view on some of it, lets just leave it at that for now 😉
Nope, no education on a faulty piecemeal spaghetti OS needed, just a great, functioning more secure OS! Like say Mac OS X! Problem solved. Keep your HKEY_CURRENT_BLAHBLAHBLAH to yourself please. 😉
lol. Brother I’d love to forget HKEY_EVERYTHING… but alas I’m stuck in these chains making a living! 😉
A good friend of mine praises Bill Gates everyday for job security in the IT industry, and enough money to buy and use Macs at home.
No one is saying it’s invulnerable. It’s not. No software is perfect. We’re saying to look at the empirical evidence. The numbers and experiences don’t lie.
Mac user since 1993.
Malware had to think about=0
Time spent with antivirus software=0
Money spent protecting my Macs against malware=$0
Same for me since 1987. Twelve Macs during that time. I usually donate my old ones to convert pc users. Many of those Macs are still running, trouble free.
Seriously, has anyone in this audience EVER experienced a virus on their Mac? I’m assuming most people on this site use Mac’s in their day-to-day lives. I know I do. I have several and I’ve never seen anything close to a virus, malware, spyware or trojan on any of my machines. And I don’t have ANY virus software installed on any of them. So I’m asking a very simple question here, “Has anyone seen a virus on a Mac?”
I got a disk from a client in 1999 that had the AutoStart worm on it. It took about 4 seconds to disable it in Quicktime prefs.
That’s been about it.
And that was on OS9.
Yep. We got a few on OS 7-9 in the late 90’s. But I’ve never had a single incident since OS X.
OS-9 had one.
You kids today with your virus free Macs!
Yes, I saw lots of viruses on Macs. However, there hasn’t been a virus released in the wild for OS X.
Back in the day, we had tons of viruses (peaking with System 6). We ran Disinfectant, and we liked it.
If by tons you mean between 29-35, with half of those being WordWin macro virii, then you are correct.
If fact, I STILL get documents from Windows users with the Word97Macro virus in the doc.
Aint MS great??!!
@KO
No, to answer your question. However, judging from some of the cocky posts here alone, I find it a bit troubling that a growing number of us have been guilty of complacency. No need to heed those desperate trite messages that Apple is Doomed, however, there’s no harm in staying a bit alert either. Keep your Macs updated.
I remember my work 1989 Mac SE30 had a virus of some sort. O/S was 6 or 7 I think
Remember, it was kid who cried “Wolf.” who was eaten by the wolf. Not the people he tried to fool.
I copped my one and only Mac virus in 1989 when I inserted a contaminated floppy disk into my Mac Plus. I think it was called WDEF32, or something like that. And a bloody nuisance it was too. I had to completely wipe and reinstall everything, taking care not to reinfect the hard drive from backup floppies.
The lesson was learned, and can be modified for today’s world. As MDN continually reminds us, never install software from untrusted sources.
I thought I had malware on a PowerMac G4/400, but it turned out my logic board battery had died.
🙂
I remember, way back in the late 1980’s, discovering viruses on floppy disks sent to our service bureau from designers. But I have no recollection of any major problems caused by the viruses we found. Since then, I’ve never seen one; and I see lots of Macs without virus protection that have never had a problem.
Windows, however, has not been so kind. I encounter one or two Windows PC’s with malware and trojans every week. I’m cleaning a Windows 7 laptop right now.
The last time I had a Mac virus was the late 90s, I was running OS9 and the troublemaker was the MS Office macro virus. Since moving to OSX, I have scanned my hard drives every few years for possible problems and always come up empty.
Mac virus email:
1. Delete all the files on you computer. 2. Send me you bank details. 3. Pass on email to everyone in your address book.
We’re all doomed.
Mark L
They will be saying this crap for the next 10 years. I always like the excuse that it’s not worth it hacking a Mac with so few buying them. Which on the surface sounds like a possibility until you realize which would get you more notoriety? Being 1 out of 20,000 viruses for a week on Windows or being the first person to really take down Apple’s security claims.
Also, do I want to steal from a bunch of people that can afford a $400 netbook or someone that owns 2 Macbook Pros and an iMac 27?
Sorry gotwake, can’t resist this, not a poke at you, but your line about the excuse that not enough people are buying Macs sent me back to the 2nd paragraph of the MDN restate of the article.
Like Gruber said, since 2004 (7 Years) the press has said Mac has finally reached a critical mass in the marketplace.
You cannot have both critical mass, and security through obscurity.
I’ve been saying this for a while now… There may very well NEVER be a virus released in the wild for OS X.
There hasn’t been a single virus released in the wild for OS X. Not one. If someone claims there are viruses for OS X, ask them to NAME one. They can’t.
There are trojans, but that’s something else entirely, but even with trojans, Apple has taken steps to provide security for users by launching the App Store. The trojans released for OS X have not received any real traction, and what little they did was through piracy channels. Gee, a 40MB version of the MS Office? Additionally, IT managers can protect users from trojans by not giving users admin privs.
Viruses used to be plentiful on the Mac platform. They peaked towards the end of System 6. There were several anti-virus apps, including the wonderful Disinfectant, which was free and not intrusive at all.
For all the security through obscurity folks:
System 6 had far less market share than OS X today.
System 6 had far less people connected and sharing files.
System 6 was a known to be, much shorter lived OS.
System 6 had no reputation, or reward for attacking.
System 6 had no method by which to provide profit for attacker.
System 7 came along, and Apple radically changed how many things worked, specifically with the desktop database and patching holes that could be used. As a result, few viruses from System 6 propagated on System 7 and those few that did were innocuous. Later System upgrades killed those few off.
By the time Mac OS 9 came along, viruses on the Mac had popped up here and there, but now patches were being issued over the internet.
When OS X came out, and became ready for prime time after a couple of years, one huge advantage was that it was virus free when Windows was suffering big time from attacks. My log files were getting swamped with zombie PC hits every day accounting for a majority of my traffic!
Virus protection usually meant buying software, paying a yearly fee or dealing with the hassles of the free stuff available.
Many doomsayers would comment that you NEEDED anti-virus software on OS X, because it’s not a matter of IF it’s a matter of WHEN.
However, we’re in the 10th year of OS X. We haven’t seen one virus. This is a pretty long lifespan for an OS, and I’m not sure how much longer we can expect OS X as a platform after Lion. In other words, if a virus isn’t released relatively soon and late into the lifespan of OS X, we’re likely to never see a virus released for OS X.
Here’s why this matters: Anti-virusing ain’t easy.
It’s also not cheap. Early on, it was my recommendation to not buy anti-virus protection until a virus had been released, and then evaluate the risk, and see if software would even be necessary as opposed to being taken care of by an update from Apple. I received a ton of flack for that and was flamed like crazy
However, think about the costs involved in always having anti-virus protection for these many years. Even if a virus does get released and you do end up needing to buy protection, you still would’ve save money by not having to have paying for protection every year.
You also would’ve been less likely to have lost data/files. There have been numerous instances of known bugs in anti-virus apps on multiple platforms that resulted in crashing, deleted data/files, and tons of hassles in software installations, even including security patches!
You also would’ve lost productivity with the system resource drain of anti-virus software and the hassle of having it run, be installed, be upgraded, and making sure your yearly subscription went through.
Well said.
I agree, well said.
I vociferously quit my local Mac User Group when they took the broad stance of asserting AV software was a must for Mac Users and part of being a “good netizen”. Talk about bad advice! One visit to any AV maker’s troubleshooting forums shows thousands of Mac users suffering major problems … all for fear of non-existent viruses. As I said then, they might as well be trying to run anti-Unicorn software for all the good that would do.
“good netizen” my shiny metal @$$ Damn windows users and IT nerds who are too cheap to buy a real computer and OS, and yet Mac users with their ’rounding error market share’ are expected to run AV software to keep the wintards safe from themselves. What a sad joke.
No, I’m not angry upset or bitter about my workplace rules and regs, why do you ask? 😉
Great post!
“Viruses used to be plentiful on the Mac platform.”
No. There were 42 documented *truly different* viruses on the Mac in the System 4.x through the OS 9.x days. Yes, some of those viruses had as many as a couple dozen or more variants. (Some people will look at those variants as new viruses, but I never have — even when talking about viruses on the DOS/Windows platforms.) However, I would NOT ever say they were “plentiful” on the Mac.
“They peaked towards the end of System 6.”
They actually peaked mid way through System 7.x. Yes, System 7 fixed some things, but it opened many new holes too. Writing a System 7 “Savvy” virus got you access to a lot more things than you had access to under System 6.x.
“There were several anti-virus apps, including the wonderful Disinfectant, which was free and not intrusive at all.”
SAM was great in it’s early days (as was SUM), but it wasn’t free. By the time it became NAV is was not worth even thinking about.
“Many doomsayers would comment that you NEEDED anti-virus software on OS X, because it’s not a matter of IF it’s a matter of WHEN.”
I still suggest AV software (as does Apple) for those who want the additional layer of confidence. If you don’t believe it’s a matter of WHEN a virus will be written for Mac OS X then you are delusional. It *will* happen. It might be a botched job. It might be truly benign. But it *will* happen. To try to even imply that it will *never* happen is just burying your head in the sand (or elsewhere the sun does not shine).
Now since the probabily of YOU getting an extremely rare virus (when one eventually gets written) is extremely low, the value of paying for AV software for you is also extremely low. However, for some people, the risk of data loss or left of confidential information on their machines is HUGE. For those people, the value may be high enough to warrant paying yearly for comprehensive AV protection.
It’s all a matter of how you personally want to play the odds. It’s just like a person getting life insurance. I knew a man who got life insurance for a huge sum. He was killed in a multi car accident that was NOT his fault. His family was financially comfortable from then on (about as much as when he was alive). The accident happened in a rural area and on a stretch of road where no accident had ever happened before. Conversely, I know another man who has NEVER bought life insurance, and he’s now in his 90s. Which man was smarter?
It’s all a matter of playing the odds, and how comfortable you are with the risks.
“Viruses used to be plentiful on the Mac platform.”
Shadowself replied: “No. There were 42 documented *truly different* viruses on the Mac in the System 4.x through the OS 9.x days. Yes, some of those viruses had as many as a couple dozen or more variants. (Some people will look at those variants as new viruses, but I never have — even when talking about viruses on the DOS/Windows platforms.) However, I would NOT ever say they were “plentiful” on the Mac.”
I used to manage one of the largest authorized Mac service centers in the country. By plentiful, I mean the number of viruses overall (including variants) and the number of Macs actually getting infections (the actual traction of the viruses). Plentiful is relative. It’s nowhere near Windows, but it’s very far from ZERO in ten years as well. Back during System 6, you could go to many different labs and computer centers and find viruses all over the place.
“They peaked towards the end of System 6.”
Shadowself replied: “They actually peaked mid way through System 7.x. Yes, System 7 fixed some things, but it opened many new holes too. Writing a System 7 “Savvy” virus got you access to a lot more things than you had access to under System 6.x.”
I’m not sure where you’re getting your information from, but virus attacks were higher for System 6 than 7.
“There were several anti-virus apps, including the wonderful Disinfectant, which was free and not intrusive at all.”
Shadowself replied: “SAM was great in it’s early days (as was SUM), but it wasn’t free. By the time it became NAV is was not worth even thinking about.”
It’s unclear here as to whether or not you think SAM was Disinfectant, but it was completely different software, and it was fairly cumbersome and problematic. It was pretty annoying having to do tech support for people experiencing incompatibilities with it, especially when Disinfectant was free and almost entirely problem free. I admit thought that SAM did have it’s place (mostly in labs).
““Many doomsayers would comment that you NEEDED anti-virus software on OS X, because it’s not a matter of IF it’s a matter of WHEN.”
Shadowself replied: “I still suggest AV software (as does Apple) for those who want the additional layer of confidence. If you don’t believe it’s a matter of WHEN a virus will be written for Mac OS X then you are delusional. It *will* happen. It might be a botched job. It might be truly benign. But it *will* happen. To try to even imply that it will *never* happen is just burying your head in the sand (or elsewhere the sun does not shine).””
This is where I totally disagree with you. Do you think OS X will live forever? How long will Apple release new versions of OS X? Another 100 years? Ok, that’s silly. Another 25? That’s still unrealistic. Maybe 10 years or less? That seems pretty reasonable. The fact that the next version is Lion AKA “The King of the Cats”, it’s not unreasonable to think this is the last version and we’ve only got a couple of years or so left.
We’ve gone TEN years without a single virus. So depending on your estimate of how long OS X will live, we’re pretty close to seeing that we may very well make it to the end of the lifespan without a single virus.
Saying it “WILL happen”, is just playing towards an irrational expectation that an OS must get a virus, without looking at the actual statistics involved here.
Suggesting that users install AV software for “confidence” in regards to OS X is simply statistically wrong.
USING OS X HISTORICAL DATA, OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS, ONE HAD A GREATER CHANCE OF LOSING DATA/FILES, EXPERIENCING CRASHES OR PROBLEMS WITH SOFTWARE INSTALLATION AND CONFLICTS THAN IF THEY DIDN’T INSTALL ANY AV SOFTWARE AT ALL.
That above statement is 100% pure fact. So where does the “confidence” come from?
Shadowself replied: “Now since the probabily of YOU getting an extremely rare virus (when one eventually gets written) is extremely low, the value of paying for AV software for you is also extremely low. However, for some people, the risk of data loss or left of confidential information on their machines is HUGE. For those people, the value may be high enough to warrant paying yearly for comprehensive AV protection.”
It’s exactly because of the risk of loss that people shouldn’t use AV protection on the Mac. I can’t believe we’re still having this argument 10 years into OS X. Statistically, you’re wrong. More people over 10 years have incurred losses because of having AV software installed than not installed on OS X. You’d be better off paying the subscription fees for NOT having AV software installed. 10 years of data backs this up.
Shadowself replied: “It’s all a matter of how you personally want to play the odds. It’s just like a person getting life insurance. ”
No it’s not. The one thing we know about life is that we’re going to die. On the other hand 10 years without ANYONE getting a virus and not that much more to go. Also, life insurance doesn’t kill you wherein AV software has, over the course of 10 years, resulted in the very same results that it’s supposed to prevent, namely loss of data/files.
Also, you can’t buy life insurance once you’re dead or even dying. IF a virus ever comes out for OS X, you can then at that point assess the risk and install AV software IF there is even a need for it based on spread or IF Apple doesn’t patch the OS.
One other major difference is that life insurance policies spell out very clearly what they pay and under what circumstances they pay. Imagine an insurance policy that stated it would only pay if you could name the exact method of your death in advance. That’s what AV software does. It needs a list of definitions to defend against. So ironically, IF a virus ever comes out for OS X, the AV software won’t do any good until it’s been upgraded, which puts you in no better spot than if you just go ahead an install the software from scratch at that point in time anyway.
Oh, and as far as Apple recommending AV software, you might note that they removed their recommendation in 2008:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10111958-37.html
QUICK! SOMEBODY TELL MDN THAT THERE IS A VIRUS ON ITS SITE. IT CREATES HUGE BLOCKS OF TYPE THAT START WITH MREDOFCOURSE AND THEN THE CAPS KEY ON YOUR KEYBOARD WILL STICK.
Seriously, though, I can’t believe I just read all of that, Ed. And I may well have understood most of it. Damned interesting and well done. Not often I actually learn something useful on a post here.
(Loved your show, except that I was only 5 when it first aired and I can’t remember much. Saw part of a rerun the other day. Amazing that the actor Alan Young is still around, 90-some years on…)
thanks mr Ed. You said it all.
10 years, whatever.
you can argue that osx isn’t macos of earlier, but nt has been around since ~1993. more than 10 years.
almost all current version software runs on xp, and usually also on 2k.
contrast that to running current software on 10.3
someone here made a more pertinent comparison. uac vs entering admin & pass.
uac is a clickable nag. admin & pass requires more effort (and ‘social authority’).
I don’t buy the FUD, but it only takes one.
Kinda like a one night stand: she can say she’s clean, but you might want a Jimmy Hat.
The part that all the other people who promote OSX anti-virus software fail to realize (or fail to mention) is that even if you HAVE anti-virus software on you Mac it can only protect from KNOWN VIRUSES: computer viruses that the software is specifically created to detect and remove.
Since there are no viruses for a OS X, those who write ‘virus protection’ software really have nothing to go on.
Plus, in the extremely unlikely event that someone does write a self-replicating virus for OS X, current ‘virus protection’ software would have no defense against it.
So, promoting ‘virus protection’ software on OS X, even just to “be safe” is silly and a waste of time, money and system resources.
I applaud your logic. The doom mongers who say that you have to lard up your Mac with every variety of anti-virus software don’t understand the concept of designing anti-virus inoculations.
You need to define an inoculation that defeats a known virus database. These would usually be patterned in the labs after Windows viruses which to all intents and purposes in a Mac would be the equivalent of drinking arsenic to solve a venereal disease problem, as they used to do until the discovery of penicillin.
The day after Osama was killed malware was adapted and circulating aimed at windows users. The point is; Scammers go where the money is and where the greatest chance of success can be found and today that means Windows. As Apple’s fortunes rise they will be targeted more, and vulnerabilities may be found, but they will never be as bad as Windows simply because of precautions taken in the OS architecture and restrictions Apple places on third party hardware makers.
Came across my first one this weekend surfing porn. Clicked on what looked like to be a video, instead of playing it downloaded a file and launched itself. The installer was impersonating a “security” update. After looking in the logs it was doing something with the tmp folder in private. I think I would have had to install it to be an issue, but being paranoid i wiped my laptop
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I’ve been using Macs since my first 512K in January of 1985. I saw a Mac virus ONCE. In 1991. That’s it. I read somewhere that were only 62 Mac viruses released for the “Classic” System software during it’s entire supported life cycle of 15+ years.
Just last week I was talking to a Windows user who was going on and on about his Windows machine and how he was afraid to try new programs and how his anti-virus software was problematic… blah blah fu¢kin blah.
I just told him I didn’t want to sound like a dick but he should just go buy a Mac and be done with it.
I convinced a Windows adherent (friend) to try Macs by not saying much. They started venting at me about their frustrations with viruses, downtime, IT service charges, and eventually said “Don’t you hate it when that happens?!!” I just sighed heavily and said “This is a moment I really dislike. I can’t relate to you because I’ve been using Macs since 1987, never had a single virus, crash, or needed IT. Yet, when I say that, people think I must be lying or arrogant because their experience with Windows is so much different. All I can say is, next time, instead of paying $300 in IT plus $300 to upgrade to the next version of Windows, go buy a $500 Mac Mini, poke it in the corner and give it a try.”
Unbeknownst to me, they did.
I got a call eight months later thanking me.
The PCs had crashed twice in that time, costing hundreds, but the Mini kept going, and going, and going. On the second service call, he asked his IT guy what he thought of Macs but the guy simply groused “They’re toys”. At that point he knew the truth; PC repairmen make no money on Macs. Since then he’s replaced all his working PCs with Macs but retains the PCs for the only thing they are truly useful for – as toys for his kids to play games.
comparing apples to emachines.
for $800, i’d want a real atx box, with at least: 6 pci, 2 pci-e, 4 dimm, etc.
for newbs, linux if you’re somewhat do it yourself (can change your pickup’s oil).
for newbs, who need a salesdroid to show how to switch on the machine, macs.
for those who tinker, any, including windows.
i can/have run mostly modern ware on a late 90’s Win98se cheapo survivor reject. (what’s gonna break, broke long ago, except for regularly wearing parts like hdd, mouse,kybd)
for old b&W, i’d *try* mintppc, ppc deb, or fedora ppc, (i use the word “try” because i may have chance to try these myself this year)
I’m the administrator of a tech training program with multiple computer labs, both PC and Mac and now lots of iOS devices. In the 5 years that I’ve been here I have never seen anything malicious affect our Macs. The PCs are another story. I really don’t care about the reasons– lower user base, blah blah blah… I just care that they work. I remember a story in the local press showing how Macs are attacked as often as PCs without revealing the fact that the Macs were unaffected. The virus scare has been the tool of lots of IT folk and with religious zeal they argue that somehow the Macs are the cause. The users know different of course. Now there may be many reasons people prefer Windows, and that’s fine, use what makes you happy (we have PCs here for that reason), but the “Mac OSX and iOS is not secure” argument is over as far as we are concerned. Time to move on and go check your PC for security updates 🙂
Actally there existed and spread a virus on Floppies in Mac Plus. Just by inserting a floppy u could get it. But it didn’t do anything. Never had a virus or malware issue since.
I noticed a common theme amongst the “wolf-criers”: they exaggerate our opinion of our Macs’ security. They claim we think our computers are “impenetrable” and “invulnerable”.
Nothing can be farther from the case. None of us thinks any of that.
We just think our platform is more secure than Windows.
And that will always be true.
——RM