“Pressure is mounting on Apple to rid its store of an Anti-Gay App. Over at the Huffington Post, Wayne Bessen writes that Exodus International, the largest Christian organization offering a ‘cure’ for homosexuality, is bragging that Apple gave it a 4+ rating, signifying the absence of ‘offensive content,'” Victoria Pynchon blogs for Forbes.
“I downloaded the Exodus App today to see whether it contained something akin to hate speech which has been variously defined as any communication which disparages a person or a group on the basis of some characteristic such as race or sexual orientation; or attacks or disparages a person or group of people based on their social or ethnic group,” Pynchon writes. “At the risk of putting myself at the center of a firestorm of disapproval, I have to say that what I viewed and read on the Exodus app was not hate speech but simply the expression of religious beliefs with which I, and many other people, disagree.”
Pynchon writes, “If the iPad and iPhone have become, by virtue of their app-lization, a version of the public square, we’d be better off letting the public decide whose ideas are more consistent with our national character and whose are not. Though the private sector is entitled to suppress speech and support any crazy idea it wants, we do ourselves a disservice when we exclude from the dialogue anyone who wants to contribute their ideas.
Much more in the full article here.
Hate speech is becoming nothing more than simply a code word for anything left wing elitists don’t agree with. So much for open mindedness and diversity…
Diversity of thought has never been accepted. Diversity of skin color is really the only thing that matters to those people.
“[T]hese people”… exactly who are you talking about here?
We have met the enemy, and they are us.
But that app is so gay
Diversity of thought is good. It’s diversity of unexamined opinions that I can do without.
you mean uncensored…
But where does it stop? Pretty soon we won’t be able to picket funerals.
lol -> I looked for an upvote, but couldn’t find one.
I’m generally against censorship. I said I could do without unexamined opinions, but that doesn’t mean Apple (or any other corporate entity) should get to decide whether I get to see them or not.
Freedom is messy sometimes, but I’d rather have that than be constrained and controlled.
I just didn’t like being told that I don’t care about the diversity of thought and reasoned discourse. I’m liberal and I would be happy to have a civil discussion on any topic you want. Show me I’m wrong using something beyond assertion and I’ll gladly change my position. You’d have out thought me and I’d thank you for making me more correct in my thinking. But, if all you can do is shout out preconceived notions like an angry parrot, don’t confuse such emoting with thinking. Like I said, diversity of thought is good, not unexamined opinions.
I enter into conversations to teach, to learn, to solve problems and come to resolutions, not to “win” them; for it is a hollow victory that changes nothing.
Define “unexamined opinions”. Unexamined by who?
@FlamingF (who did not have a “Reply” button next to his/her comment.)
Unexamined by the individual who holds the opinions. Take you for example. Why do you hold them? Do you believe what you believe simply because someone told you to believe it? If not what are the opinions’ foundations? What good or harm do these opinions do? If you held the opposite belief, what would be the impact? Why is the opinion important to you? How does it affect your life? How does it affect others’ lives? Is your view on this topic congruent with your other beliefs, or are two or more beliefs you hold in conflict? If the latter, which is the correct belief, if either, and why? Does this belief fit with your image of yourself or more importantly, does it move you toward or away from the self you would like to be?
That’s what I mean by “unexamined opinions”. Most people don’t do that kind of reflection on their own set of beliefs. Thusly they are not truly thinking; just repeating assertions based on little or nothing.
When such a person has these beliefs questioned, the result is not calm discussion, but rather angry rebuttal, defensiveness, name calling, deflection, dismissive quips and avoidance. These are among the signs that allow us to know whether a person has any foundation under their opinions or not.
I probably don’t agree with everything you sat
Y, do or think. But I sure as hell agree with this
Well said, you.
You said “When such a person has these beliefs questioned, the result is not calm discussion, but rather angry rebuttal, defensiveness, name calling, deflection, dismissive quips and avoidance.”
Wouldn’t you say that banning an App because you don’t agree with it’s premise is described above? I do. So if you can’t defend homosexuality, you attack.
‘Diversity of thought is good. It’s diversity of unexamined opinions that I can do without.’
Wot? How do you get this ‘diversity’ without allowing previously ‘unexamined opinions’? By definition, diversity of discussion includes the good, the bad, the ugly, the thoughtful, the reactionary, the stupid, the sensible…plus everything that ranges from indifference to anarchy.
I suspect you want us all to be civilised, to restrict the messiness of truly open discussion that inevitably leads to nowhere but frustration and polarisation; that you would like the ‘noise’ tuned out to allow ‘reason’ to prevail, that sense is given priority over ‘non’sense?.
Good luck with that.
Personally I’m sympathetic. After all, it’s the basis of democracy and by accepting it’s principles we inevitably restrict the crazies at each end of the spectrum for the good of the majority. But don’t lets kid ourselves that every facet of society can be accommodated.
From Apple’s point of view, I think they are just reacting to general public opinion and if it swings the other way they will react again. This is the only sensible way to act without your stance being exposed as cant.
Kind of like how the right uses “terrorist”.
Yes, but why waste time bickering over my side/their side when generalizations are just meaningless words? Some may never get their minds out of high school. We know liberals constrain speech as do conservatives. Do you have a cogent thought to share?
The article hits on a good point. Let the people decide. If someone is offended, perhaps they shouldn’t buy the app. Just a thought.
This is a petition, so it seems the people ARE deciding. If a lot of people don’t like the app, and its existence damages Apple’s image and business (because there are frankly more tolerant or ambivalent people out there than the buttsex-obsessed morality fetishists that make up the tiny and mostly fictional ex-gay movement) then I would expect them to remove it. The App Store is not a political platform, and Apple has been doing what it can to keep it that way.
Again. I love you.
I’m trying to be all diplomatic and you just, Wham! both barrels. lol.
I’m not known for my subtlety.
That said, I’m personally in favor of keeping the app. I think it’s important we get a good look at who these people are, so we can better make fun of them once they’re caught being gay again.
Love it! You got it right Chrissy.
There are so many people who claim they know what god thinks. He speaks to them, apparently.
So lucky. And he always tells them what they want to hear, coincidentally.
“You can tell you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do”
What makes you assume God doesn’t communicate and want to be heard?
@mac user 47
The same thing that makes me assume the dog wasn’t really talking to Son of Sam.
I actually agree! (weird!!!). If these guys are freaks, give them enough rope… Don’t silence them because they are “offensive”
See? A little good-natured dialog and we can achieve anything. 😉
Making fun of people who as adults, reenact the sexual abuse that happened in their live as kids is not fair game, m’dear. He was never gay, he was forced to perform fellatio as a child.
If you believe that, I have a butt plug to sell you.
Right… “terrorists” — it’s just a buzzword of the vast right wing conspiracy. That’s an insult to all the people who have lost their lives, been injured, and persecuted by Terrorists. And even though you made such a poor statement, I wouldn’t characterize your comment as hate speech, or be against you maintaining an IOS app that promoted your opinion. The very opposite of what liberals do, just as the OP said.
When you lack data, make up stuff.
And immoral behavior is nothing more than anything the rigid right deems is outside their narrow little minds. So much for open mindendness and diversity…
But even that’s a lie. Ask Larry Craig and so many other not-caught-yet conservatives. Here’s a hint, folks… the people that complain the loudest are ASHAMED OF THEIR OWN GAYNESS. And gay they are indeed.
Chrissy, you are on a roll. (Your “app for curing religion” comment below made me laugh out loud.) And so right: With the many revelations of late about anti-gay politicians and such being gay, it is provably true that the louder a person speaks out against homosexuality, the more likely it is that the person has had, is having, will have or desperately wants a consenting gay “experience.” And I’m being plenty charitable there by allowing that their behavior is legal.
Don’t go there, RC. The right is very weak in this area. Don’t throw any stones around your glass house.
At first, and for far too long, they tried to ignore Hitler, too.
It didn’t work out too well.
Best to do what MDN does: Shine a bright spotlight on it, don’t try to ignore it.
Perhaps. But no one is forcing anyone to download this app. Simply having it available isn’t a crime, especially if it doesn’t have any hate speech or advocate violence against gay people.
Apple shouldn’t take sides on stuff like this, no matter how unpopular it is.
No one is forcing the kids to walk past the child molester that just moved into the neighborhood either.
Thank you for invoking the Godwin’s law; we may now mercifully put this matter (as well the thread) to rest.
Just say that the app was written by a Muslim. Throw in a few “Allah is all compassionate”s, and bam – 100% acceptable. no need to change anything else.
… suddenly Beck and the rest of the Right Wing Bigot squad will declare Apple as an agent of terrorism. Yeah … it’s only the Left who have opinions. Yup. They’re at fault for everything. Except what the Right’s at fault for.
Boo hoo hoo!
What a bunch of whiners!
Boo hoo hoo!
What a bunch of whiners!!!
You’re right, it had to be said twice.
So many are for DIVERSITY until it’s something they disagree with. I say, leave the App alone and allow people to agree or disagree with whether they dismiss it or not.
That’s true I disagree with the Arian Brother hood but if they want to make an app let them. I’m not going to waste my time with them. Freedom of speech means freedom of speech. When we delete an app just because we disagree it is so anti American!!!!!
It’s not a first amendment right. Apple is not the government. It is a corporation. It can “censor” anything it wants. Only the government is prohibited from banning free speech.
Yes, Apple is not the government and yes, they can censor what they wish. Of course they can choose to NOT censor too.
Dang, I thought Apple was the Boss, what happened?.
I don’t think “diversity” means the same thing to you as it does to many people.
Diversity of thought/ideas has nothing to do with “diversity.” In fact, it’s almost the opposite. 😉
I agree. Let’s bring on the porn apps. What, you disagree with that?
Wait, I thought diversity was old wooden ship?
Nah, diversity is university x 2.
Nope, it’s a city where divers live you goombahs!.
Exodus is a stupid pig of an organization, wrong-headed and rotten on every level, and harmful to people. No one should subject themselves to that crap. That said, I don’t believe in censoring them, though I do think Apple has the right to decide that this is an organization they do not want to support by having them in their app store. Apple removing them (if they do), is not censorship, only a government has the true power of censorship. I think it would be appropriate, given Apple’s corporate policy, to remove this app from their store. I don’t think it’s required to do so, but it’s certainly far from wrong to remove it.
Apple as a company has long been friendly to LGBT people and extends domestic partner benefits. This is the right thing to do and progressives and libertarians agree on this issue- who you love is your business and LGBT people should not be treated as second class citizens.
The preponderance of scientific evidence shows that such activity occurs in many species- including humans. Someone who holds to an ancient faith that chooses to view LGBT people as sick and needing to be “cured” certainly have the right to do so. But Apple also has reserved the right to refuse or withdraw apps that display or contain offensive content.
What this organization does is offensive to LGBT people and most anyone who agrees that such people were born that way. The app should be reviewed and removed if found offensive.
And so, when the inevitable pro-LGBT app comes along, shall we remove it, too, because a significant number of people find it “offensive”? If we keep it up, what will we have left? As a corporation, Apple is not bound by the 1st Amendment, and can do what it wants, but I don’t think catering to interest group sensitivities is any way to run a country or a business. As a non-jailbroken iPhone/iPad user, I would prefer to keep my choices broad and deep.
The fact that Apple has reserved the right to filter apps as part of the EULA and developer agreement changes the game.
As to the argument that a pro LGBT app would be offensive is specious. Telling someone that the way they were born is a sickness/illness based upon nothing else than 2000 year old writings IS offensive.
Likewise, advocating freedom is nit offensive while advocating for a repressive dictatorship would be.
as long as Apple doesn’t promote the app through their fantastic store, ie curate the app in one of it’s many app groups, then there is no need for apple to remove or change the apps current standing. As long as the app remains inoffensive, it should be left alone.
A belief system should not be offensive, but outright bigotry is, and until this app reflects that as a verbal attack on others than it should stay.
We just need to prohibit from bringing these types of apps into the main public forum in order to render their message inert. The only people that will download this app will be those that already share these convictions.
then again I just thought of how this might affect an homosexual youth. If a young gay man is attempting to use this app to cure his homosexuality, that could be disastrous to this man’s health.
The app age restriction should be raised to a mature level — but I’m not totally sure I even believe that, I suppose it is a bit of a tricky issue.
This is where freedom of speech becomes a bitch. Exodus International does a lot of harm. Several people have had to go into real therapy to undo their damage. They give false hope to desperate parents; take their money; then when their “treatment” does not work, again, they blame the child and leave the family damaged. Their great success was caught on camera in a gay bar just a few months after he was on the cover Time magazine.
His excuse was he did not know it was a gay bar. He had been a drag queen, do you think he did not know it was a gay bar. They are a dangerous organization.
Do I think they should have a app? Yes. I want gay groups to have apps too. I want pot legalized, they do have apps for that. Can those be considered harmful? Of course. I do think the Exodus app should be restricted to adult. As much as I dislike Exodus, as long as they don’t call for excitation, imprisonment, or other violent acts (as a lot of their supporters do) then let them stay. I just hope that they will actually read their bible and understand what Jesus was preaching.
As long as they allow my app to cure people of religion.
“amen” from an agnostic. Been cured if the sky god for quite a while now and never have I been better.
To help in that lofty goal, there’s even an old REM song to help them lose their religion.
I’m more likely to buy YOUR app, hehe.
Why not? Don’t think you’ll get very far with many people though. Just wonder if you’re being as narrow-minded as those you proclaim to be against? When I hear someone spout off on a matter of opinion/preference with such absolution, I tend to conclude they are just morons with inflated notions of self-worth.
I’ll bet you never point that in the mirror.
And I know that satire is hard to understand, so next time I’ll label it.
I agree, and would buy your app.
If you don’t like Exodus, then write your own pro gay app.
My ancient faith views that ALL people are “sick” and in need of a “cure.” That cure is Jesus.
I was raised in the church and saw very little cure and a whole lot of intolerance, fear, repression, etc.
Your mileage may vary, but I gave it a thorough chance and I didn’t see it. Like Ghandhi, I wish the professed followers of Christ actually were more like him.
“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.” – G. K. Chesterton
It’s difficult, but don’t give up just because of the bad examples you’ve met – those folks will most likely encounter the fate described below…
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ – Jesus, speaking in Matthew 7:22-23
Your ancient religion is only about 2000 years old. How did man get by before Christ?
There’s this thing called Judaism. You may have heard of it – goes back just a bit further than that. 😉 Christianity is its continuation.
How about the million years before that?
We are all the offspring of ancient alien astronauts.
Sorry, you lose. Mankind predates Judaism by hundreds of thousands of years. How did man get by before Judaism? Your God is only about 6,000 years old according to your Bible.
My guess is, we created your God, just like we created all the other Gods mankind has worshiped. Virgin birth indeed!
Its not a religion its about a relationship with Jesus christ.
As far as the app the company who made it might not be the best but it doesnt matter. everyone has the right to say what they want. If you dont like it to bad its a free country.
I feel for people who dont realize all that God can do for them. But each his or her own. And as far as the church being so bad. I agree many churches are that way. BUT there are just as many churches who preach love but they do preach the bible and they will tell you its wrong to be gay or something but they wont threaten you or do all kinds of weird things. I have seen it all and there are some churches out there who are really hurting christianity.
Dont judge the whole by a few
“Dont judge the whole by a few”
Amen,
Jason, Jason, Jason,
God loves all the little children, except the gay ones.
I get it now.
Demand that Apple remove “ex-gay” iPhone app http://t.co/fVFknBS via @change
“As long as they allow my app to cure people of religion.”
Hear, hear! While not a disease, per se, it is way too contagious, just like ignorance.
Ever notice how gay rights groups are all about free speech, until someone speaks out about wha they don’t like/believe about gay people or their movement? Anyone who speaks against gays gets hammered, threatened, etc. By some of these gay organizations. this is nothing more than so e in the gay community trying to censure someone with opposing views.
No, like Mac users they are fighting FUD.
Nope, I’ve never noticed that. Gay rights groups aren’t about free speech, they’re about gay rights. Like being able to die with the person you love and not let a family that hates you take all their money when you’re gone. It’s not an esoteric, abstract fight for speech, it’s about the right to live.
Frankly, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
ChrissyOne,
Got a fix for that, it’s called a “trust”. What better way to piss those people off.
You sound like you’ve been drinking from the kool-aid yourself. Having sex with whomever you want is one thing; asking society to redefine marriage to suit one’s whims is another thing entirely.
Then marriage should be a strictly religious institution and not a civil one. So I agree with you, let’s ban marriage.
Marriage is a legal contract granted by the state. Holy Matrimony is a ceremony or ordinance of churches. Ask any honest lawyer.
Gawd has nothing to do with the legal institution of marriage.
You really got me thinking, Wil! I think we really SHOULD get back to the biblical definition of marriage.
Deuteronomy 22:17-21
17 Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town,
18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him.
19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels[a] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.
20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found,
21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.
As true today as it ever was.
Looks like I spoke too soon!!!
So the guy who did the “stoning” was Executor and sole beneficiary of the “stonee’s” Will?! How convenient.
Sounds like a typical left move… Get at the money and when convenient, use religion as the righteous excuse to explain one’s self and actions!
But we’ll see the real definition of marriage…. Hillary set to retire soon, so I guess she and ‘ahem’ Bill can settle down in their NY residence… Enjoy the ole homestead… the good life… Why, be as private at “W” and Laura… ‘snicker’, yeah, like that’ll ever happen. That is, if Bill has been cured of his ‘ahem’ past ways by those “Spiritual Advisors” that were to follow him and keep him on a Righteous path…
How did man get by a million years ago… He didn’t , he was just life’s appetizer for some overgrown lizards and reptiles…
You never defined if that was a “new” or “used” butt plug that you were selling!
Dinosaurs were long gone a million years ago you bloody idiot.
Yes, it’s about gay rights, but they constantly claim that they have the right to freely espouse their views (which they do). However, if anyone speaks out against them, they claim the person is using hate speech, call them all kinds of names, and demand that the speaker be censured and/or not permitted to hold their own demonstrations, etc. IOW, there’s a huge double-standard here – they get to say whatever they want or have demonstrations involving whatever signs, etc. they want, but those who want to speak and/or demonstrate against gay rights shouldn’t be allowed to do so.
Look at Hollywood: either you’re in with the gay rights crowd, or you had better shut up if you don’t want to be targeted and attacked. That’s exactly what happened with the latest round of gay marriage voting in California.
When you have been attacked, imprisoned and kept invisible in the media you have a bad reaction to anything against you. You do not know how many rights you have. If a county declared a death sentence on someone because they were Catholic it would not be a problem for them to get asylum in the US or Europe. When people are outed and Iran has said that they will be arrested and could face the death penalty we tell them they must go back. Live in our world for a year.
Thanks for brining this app to my attention.
I downloaded it and support what they’re saying. Why is that wrong? It’s my own opinion. I don’t care the gays flash their gayness in my face.
Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
That’s right. I fully support your right to be a d-bag. Ain’t America great?
The entire “hate speech” issue is bogus. The only reason it exists is to allow those in power to control the public speech of those with whom they disagree. That’s reprehensible. I have no fear of nor need to be protected from those who say things I don’t like. If I disagree, I should be free to say so. And that should be the end of it. Oh, and by the way. It’s perfectly normal and OK to hate. I happen to hate communists and child molesters, among others. And I’ll stand up and say so anytime.
If you hate communists I hope you don’t support them by buying products assembled in China. Wait a minute, this is MacDailyNews…….oopsie!
If they pull the ex-gay App then they’ll have to pull the ex-boy and ex-girl Apps.
That will just be the beginning. The ex-human App will be next on the list.
Will the carnage never end?
The ex-Android app however may remain.
The issue here is that Apple, for better or for worse, has implemented a policy where they state very clearly that they won’t distribute objectionable or content that is offensive to any group of people.
As such, any “petition” with a reasonable amount of support showing objection to any content would be grounds under their policy for removal.
Personally, I believe this policy is flawed as it can just as easily be applied to anything. The religious right could object to any pro-choice, gay rights, etc… app, or any religious texts could be objected to. Science apps could be perceived as offensive. It’s not a slippery slope, it’s a straight forward cliff.
While Apple is a corporation and not subject to the same separation of church and state laws, it (and other corporations) should, IMHO, hold true to the same values we as a free and democratic society embrace.
So while Apple is legally free to approve and disapprove content based on whatever the management’s personal, religious or other beliefs and preferences are – as long as it doesn’t abuse a monopoly for unfair business advantage, we should ask for, and petition Apple, to adopt a more open, let-the-individual-choose-what-they-want, policy.
Here we go another hot button topic. Once again we back to separation of state and church, and this left right crap.
Here the bottom there should no censor, as far as I am concern anything goes. Let the idiot speak their mind with hate, I will reply in kind.
We can overcome!!!!
What a perfect skit to find Chrissy, LOL! Good one!
But of course, truth is for more amusing than fiction….
“Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper, two of the co- founders of Exodus, left the group to be with each other in 1979.”
“John Paulk, a well-known United States “ex-gay” public figure and Chairman of Exodus International, was removed by Exodus International Board of Directors vote on October 3, 2000, following confirmation of his “engaging in behavior which has negatively impacted the credibility of Exodus.”
On September 19, 2000 while on a speaking tour, Paulk was identified drinking and flirting at Mr. P’s, a Washington, D.C. gay bar, giving his name as “John Clint,” one he had used in his days as a hustler in Ohio.
Yeah that can’t be more true..
These religious sects can cause gay youth to sometimes hate themselves and/or kill themselves. They also tend to veil hate with trying to change someone in the name of God. Like I said, I’d love to buy your app 🙂
These religious congregations CAN’T change someone who is homosexual. Religions that try only damage people and keep people from accepting and loving themselves for who they are. That isn’t love. That isn’t kindness. That’s sick and demented.
It’s a good thing that there is support for these youths and their families if they try to look for it outside of these religious groups and aren’t fearful of repercussions. Make it a goal to find a place where you can be who you are, and are allowed to love and be loved. Don’t change yourself for no one. You don’t want to waste your life only to later realize you are living someone else’s dream. It’s not worth it.
That goes to Michael Bussee, Gary Cooper, John Paulk and anyone else for that matter.
Well put!
So true. LMAO!
John 3:16
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Thats gay.