“Apple has a penchant for building attractive, functional, and relatively easy to use systems. So when the ineffably cute Mac Mini made the scene last week, the tech press gushed over it… The Mac Mini is certainly cheap – for a Macintosh. But for your $499, you get a system with a 40GB hard drive, 256MB of DDR333 memory and an ATI Radeon 9200 with an execrable 32MB of video memory,” Loyd Case writes for Extremetech. “The only reason you even get a 9200 is that Apple’s chipsets lack integrated video. Some would say that’s a good thing for gamers, but the minimalist 32MB of frame buffer belies that. Did I mention there’s no keyboard, mouse, or display?”
Case writes, “So I feel compelled to point out that for $399, you can get a Dell 2400 with a 2.4GHz Celeron, 256MB of RAM, 40GB hard drive, 17-inch CRT and a keyboard and mouse? And that does include Windows XP Home Edition. Gateway has something similar, except it comes with an 80GB hard drive and speakers – although that $399 is a post-$100 rebate price.”
“Now, there are lots of reasons to like Apple. MacOS 10.3 is a great operating system. Apple’s designs are certainly far easier on the eye than Dell’s mini-towers. And the G5 is a great processor… but, oops, the Mac Mini ships with a G4. So let’s not get too carried away about the ‘cheap’ Macintosh. It’s cheap relative to past Apple systems, but you can still get a complete Wintel system for considerably less,” Case writes. “Personally, I think the Mac Mini is cool, and I hope Apple sells a boatload of them on its own merits. It’s sleek, slick, and ships with MacOS 10.3. But don’t buy one as a cheap alternative for grandma. Buy one for yourself, because it’s a nifty computer. I just wish Apple would sell the system on its own merits, rather than play some kind of artificial shell game with prices.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: The G4 is also a great processor and certainly compares well to the processors found in the Dell and Gateway boxes that Case mentions. Case complains about Apple playing “an artificial shell game,” but is Apple’s idea that Windows switchers already have a monitor, keyboard, and mouse anywhere near the shell game that Dell and Gateway are playing with the very systems Case highlights? And how much is the piece of mind running a Mac OS X machine that’s connected to the Internet worth to users compared with the Windows virus, worm, and malware epidemics that users would face if they chose the Dell or Gateway machines?
Does the $399 Dell or Gateway include Firewire or a DVI connection so that I can connect it to an HD TV? NOT!!!!
Can I edit movies on the $399 Dell? NOT!!!!
The Mac Mini at $499 is inexpensive. (Quality hardware and great software is included.)
The Dell or Gateway at $399 or even $499 is just CHEAP!!
I own a 4 year old Imac Flatpanel with an 800MHZ G4 and a superdrive.
I am still editing movies and burning professional looking DVDs with no problems. I also use it to stream Mpeg 4 and DivX movies to my playstation and watch them on my TV and home cinema.
The iMac Mini is almost twice the cpu speed of mine. This is a great computer for only $499-599.
OK, we got the iPod shuffles in today (in the 512mb size). I just spent a few minutes out in public and sold 4 of them in less than a half hour. They will fly out of the store. The only people who didn’t buy wanted the 1 gig version that hasn’t arrived yet.
Had a bunch of folks get on my list for the first Mac mini arrivals. These too will absolutely go flying out of the store, no doubt based on early demand which is just the tip of the iceberg. My guess is the demand for the next half year will outpace the 100k supposedly to be manufactured per month.
So those folks talking about advertising the Mac mini, should keep that in mind, initially it may not make sense to advertise a limited commodity. Better to hold the advertising for 4 to 6 months from now when supply catches up to latent demand.
Anybody know if Best Buy or any other retail outlets are going to carry the Mac mini? Would be sweet if they did and drop in Target while they’re at it.
Keep in mind that the Celeron in the Dell was designed to be a CHEAP CPU with small cache, and a slow bus. The G4 in the Mac MINI on the other hand was the top-dog Mac processor until the G5, and still is the top mobile Mac Processor.
The top dog mobile processor on PeeCees is the Pentium M (which is a very good chip, better than the Pentium 4 desktop processor, as far as processing power per GHz).
If you had a 6x6x2″ PC based on a Pentium M at 1.5 GHz with a 40gb hard drive and combo drive, plus firewire and 9200 graphis with DVI output, then you’d have equivalent HARDWARE. Of course, it would still have crappy Windoze ( I’d put Linux on it myself, but of course even though Linux is a great OS, it isn’t as good as a user environment).
Dislaimer: I use all three OS’s (windows is not by choice) — I’m typing this on my Al Powerbook G4 — my favorite computer.
I configured the cheapo DELL it so I could get the $399 price. Said No to 5 pages of upgrades. Once in the checkout page, the shipping charges? …$99
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Same price as the mini but no iLife, no Mac OSX, no fire wire, no dedicated graphic card. At least you don’t have to even open the box, this POS DULL is packed ready for the dump truck
Boy, it’s a real “stream of consciousness” kind of day. Happens when I’m looking at poorly documented, badly designed code. I just need to get away…
Anyway, so I’m thinking about the comparison with Dell machine. Loyd Case notes the fact that Apple puts an “execrable” 32MB of video RAM in the machine (I actually agree on this one), but then maintains that Apple does this because the don’t have Intel’s Integrated Video.
Now how does Apple’s video card fare against Intel’s on-board video? Without benchmarks, we can only guess. So let’s.
The 1.25 GHz eMac might be a worthwhile test. It has 256MB of RAM and a Radeon 9200 graphics card with 32MB of RAM, which is the same as a Mac mini. According to barefeats, the eMac scored a framerate in UT2003 of 43 frames per second.
So how about the Dell Dimension 2400 he so loves for $399. Well, according to GameSpot hardware, I found a benchmark for the same test. It’s discussing another machine, but they do compare it against a Dell Dimension 2400. The frame rate? 10.6 frames per second–four times slower than the projected speed of the Mac mini!
Well, yeah, but that’s for $399! What about the $499 Dell Dimension 3000? That’s the same price as the Mac mini. Well, according to ZDNet Review, the Dimension 3000 clocks in with a whopping 13.5 frames per second–not all that much different from the 2400!
So it would seem that even with an “execrable” 32MB, the Mac mini will be stomping the Dell machines into the proverbial sod in regards to 3D Gameplay.
I tend to agree with the G4 statement …
Considering what was presented on MacRumors (see http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/01/20050114041111.shtml), it seems that Apple is fast moving to a complete G5 line.
I guess for an initial release of the Mac mini that the G4 is adequate, however … how long do you think it will be until it sports a G5? Next revision maybe?
Anyway, I do love the Mac mini … it will be my dad’s next computer (once I can get him to throw out his PeeCee).
PC Owner: “But why would I want a cheap Dell? I already have one of those.”
When you configure the Dell to be configured equal to the Mini, the Dell comes out to more than the Mac Mini. Don’t forget you must pay more for that virus/spyware software to protect the Dell and up have to upgrade to the combo drive.
A good (ha-ha try heated) discussion on topic: <a >http://scooterbbs.com/board/DCForumID3/4532.html</a>
Hey Peter. I have an eMac. Compared to my sister-in-laws identical eMac with 256 RAM, mine, with 512K seems twice as fast.
Beyond the obvious merits of the Mac mini I must say that I like the idea of being able to just buy the mini and then, if necessary, purchase the other compenents separately. The CPU just becomes another peripheral sort of. It politely gets out of your way.
Does Dell or Gateway include software like iLife 05 with all of there systems?
I didn’t think so. Combined with OSX Dell & Gateway can’t match the Mac Mini. No spyware, malware, viruses. Get on the internet with piece of mind and just use the computer rather than constantly try to maintain security and bloating the system with blocking software for this and that.
I am amazed that you see these PC nerds configure systems with specific 3rd party parts at very low prices, yet never seem to include the cost of Windows or any other software. Do they intend to install a pirated OS? How about all those games they’re gonna play? I believe the answer is quite obviously yes.
In the real world we pay for our hard and software. And if you’re a business owner, you simply don’t risk getting a $50,000 fine for being caught with stolen software.
The Mac Mini give you everything you need to get up and running software wise, without stealing. Think of it as the computer that makes an honest user of you.
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Gah… My new pet peeve is Tech Writers complaining that the Mac mini is actually not a deal when you buy a new display, keyboard and mouse to go with it.
PC users.. ditch Ballmer and Gates
KVM switch the first 3 months, if you must, but seriously.. DON”T BUY A NEW DISPLAY/KEYB to go with this Mac.. use your current accessories!
So what if you can get a Dell for less – that isn’t relevent at all.
You don’t get Mac OS X on a Dell – windows users looking for a cheap entry level Mac only have 2 choices: Mac mini or theEmac.
If windows users want a mac Dell cannot compete – period as you can’t buy a Dell with Mac OS X on it.
Presumably the Dell or the Gateway have DVI video out?
What’s that you say? No?
Oh, VGA – how quaint.
Oh and by the way I am really getting sick of all the articles on the Mini saying something like “And the Macintosh has fewer viruses”.
At least we are seeing some progress and at least they mention this aspect now and I have even seen ones that say the Mac OS is inherently more secure (although I noticed this guy didn’t mention viruses AT ALL and THAT should tell you something).
But what each and every article SHOULD say is something like: “The Mac Mini will also help you avoid the headaches of malware. Currently there are no active viruses, adware or spyware for OS X. This may change if the Macintosh platform gains popularity and marketshare but since the system is inherently more secure you should still have fewer problems that you currently do with a machine running Windows.”
That would be clearly stating the situation as it stands and accurately informing the public.
My parents are retired and not too techno savvy. They are running a 7300/180 using OS9. Is it worth spending $$ upgrading the CPU to make it a bit faster for them to do emailing and surfing the web or would it be better to spend more for the Mac mini where there would be quite a learning curve for them using OSX. I love using Panther on my G4 so I’m biased. Any thoughts?
Dudemac…
That website is Excellent!!!
I have never seen such a comparison between Macs and windows machines before!!
Nice one mate!
Hmmm, my first post didn’t seem to make it on. Oh well, the gist of it was I could not believe that this guy recommended a PC for grandma. Low power users (and especially ones born before the PC generation) should NEVER be recommended a Windoze machine unless you are gonna be there to support them on a daily basis.
This guy obviously has never tried the Mac experience or he would not do so. (and if he did know and still recommended the PC then he should be taken out and summarily shot for cruelty to old people
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But in the above observation lies the real beauty and purpose of the Mac mini. Now he DOES have a low cost/low space requirement opportunity to find out what OS X is all about. As a tech writer he has absolutely no excuse for not basing his next article on informed experience.
RE: CATSEYE…
My wife’s parents are the same.
Recently I spoke to them (as they are going to get a new computer) and they asked me about macs – so I told them that you can get one for under �400 and they won’t need to buy a monitor, mouse and keyboard etc.
They were very impressed – I also stated the fact that Mac OS X is so easy to use and learn too.
Now they are considering the mac mini – the machine is ideal for them as they only use email, surf the web and use M$ Office.
They use the odd piece of proprietry software (family tree software) but you can get better equivalent software for the Mac anyway.
Also – my 4 year old boy can use OS X – it really is that simple to use!!!
Being an OS that is more icon based visually, it is also easier to use and learn than windows. You need to know how people remember things is by subconsciously linking a mental ‘image’ in their minds eye which then links to the thing they are trying to remember: e.g. visualise an image of an address book to remember someones phone number.
This is why icon based OS’s are very easy to learn.
An excellent case in point is the dock in Mac OS X.
You don’t need to see the names of the apps in the dock because all you need to do is use them a few times and your mind will remember the icon in the dock and that will link it to the name of the application.
Very simple.
The other thing with OS X is that if you are visually impared you can configure the machine to your own settings (e.g. larger icons/text etc). There is also an option for speakable interface: so when you mouse over an icon the computer will tell you what application it is through the speaker.
I hope this helps.
Catseye, I upgraded my 78 year old Mom (well she was 76 then) a year and a half ago to OS X with an eMac. She was on an original iMac before and as older people are wont to do, was very resistant to the change and worried about having to learn something new. But I wanted to be able to vid chat with her and so pushed it through (which was easy since I was buying the computer).
Yes there was a bit of a learning curve for OS X but actually she found it much more intuitive than OS 9 and so now is able to do MUCH MORE than she was able to before and in fact now raves about how great her new computer is all the time. A big factor for her was the dock. All the programs she normally uses are always right there in front of her and she knows where to find them easily. She even bought a digital camera and has gotten into digital photography. Also since we were able to vid chat, I could provide support for her getting used to OS X very easily even tho we live half a world apart.
So from my experience I would definitely recommend upping your parents to OS X.
Solar Flare – thanks that helped me a lot. I keep forgetting how easy it is to configure the dock in OS X. My mother is an artist so looking at it from a visual standpoint would really help her. I just need to check with them about what OS9 software they are using. My other motivation is to get them a web cam as I live in Japan and would like to video chat sometimes.
I bought a used Yugo and saved thousand$. It is all about the price, you know.