“So let’s say you’re an executive at Apple Computer, and Microsoft comes to you and says, look, we’re coming out with this new music store called MSN Music and we’d really like to make it work with the iPod. We know that you’re disabling support for WMA (Windows Media Audio) in the iPod before you ship it to customers, but we’ll give you a really good deal on WMA licensing–maybe even make it free–if you just let iPod users listen to WMA music on their devices and optionally purchase music from MSN Music. But you deny the request for perfectly valid competitive reasons. OK, fine. When a reporter asks you about MSN Music, what’s your response? I mean, how do you frame this answer after you just refused to work with Microsoft? Naturally, you blast the company for not being compatible with the iPod. In an interview with ZDNet this week, Apple vice president Eddie Cue said, and yes, I’m serious, that MSN Music’s ‘biggest problem may be that its downloaded songs can not play on the iPod.’ Nice, eh? But wait, there’s more,” Paul Thurrott writes for WinInfo. “In an official statement issued by the company, Apple actually wrote, and I quote, ‘The iTunes Music Store is currently selling over 16 million songs per month … How many songs will Microsoft’s new online music store sell during its first month?’ You know, we can complain until we’re blue in the face about how a dominant Microsoft acts, but isn’t it interesting to see how petty things get when the shoe is on the other foot. This is the company that is supposedly standing up for the ‘people,’ folks. Ugly, isn’t it?”
Full article, including a piece called, “Gates Slams Apple’s Inability to Deliver Digital Video Player” here.
MacDailyNews Take: What’s in it for Apple to let Microsoft or any other company sell the same product for the iPod that Apple sells? iTunes already works on both Windows and Mac personal computers and Apple has the largest library of legal download available today. Letting others sell music for iPod would only siphon off some iTunes music sales; there’s nothing in it for Apple to change their course at this time. Although Apple’s continued refusal for license their FairPlay DRM makes us wonder about Apple’s contention that the iTunes Music Store exists only to help sell iPods. Perhaps Apple sees the iTunes Music Store as a real profit center in its own right in the future?
[Disclaimer: MacDailyNews is an Apple iTunes Affiliate.]
The question people should be asked BGates & MS is why? (I mean, of course, people know why in the business sense) but the reality is MP3 have won the race. AAC M4p is the 2nd choice for people who want it now (legally). Add in the other favs lke oGG, APE, etc … WMA is really about the 10th choice on the list so the question really should be why? PEople somehow just accept that Ms should get into this biz – guess that MS Watch OS business is not doing so hot – hey, what about all the MS marketing muscle that is infallible? Does THurott wear an MS watch?
Again, personally, I think the iPod should support WMA, Real, Ogg Vorbis, and any other format that someone can encode sound into because, to quote Steve Jobs, “At Apple, it’s about the music.” It shouldn’t be about the format.
What makes me laugh the hardest is the alleged “deal” that Microsoft was offering. First, Apple has to do the work to make WMA work on the iPod. Second, Apple has to help Microsoft with the connection to download music to the iPod. Finally, the bit about “optionally purchase music from MSN Music”–as in, what? Provide an update to WMP 10 on their CD? And if Apple does all this, what do they get out it? Free WMA licensing?!
In other words, “Help us make our audio codec and music store a success and we promise we won’t charge you money for doing so.”
Sorry, Paul, but I would sincerely hope that Apple would walk away from that deal. Now if Microsoft said, “If you do all this, we’ll provide WMP 10 QuickTime codecs so that WMA music can play in iTunes on both Macintosh and PC”, I might have gone for it (though I’d want to see the codecs first).
ummm yaaa
Apple has made some of the best software available on the Microsoft platform and Microsoft isn’t just pissed off but they are also being threatened! The biggest enemy of Microsoft is themselves; they created the MSN Music Store and it only proves that Apple is better. Sometimes it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Microsoft doesn’t know when to shut up!
With the MSN Music Store online now, Microsoft’s next move will be to “accidentally” have XP incompatible with iTunes Music Store with their next update. Hopefully, it gets huge media coverage and then the world will see what sort of adolescent megalomaniac Gates really is.
Let’s see… if iPod were to support WMA, which needs to be sampled at higher rate to have lower quality than AAC from iTMS, what would happen?
Well, here goes spiraling down the sewer the ‘7500 tunes’, ‘10000 tunes’ etc claims because people start filling with WMA tracks their iPods.
Apple starts to receive complains that they are liars and much less tracks can be stored and…
Uhmm, no, keep WMA out of the equation.
Here is the email I sent the loser boy….
Mr. Thurrott,
The title to your second paragraph “Gates Slams Apple’s Inability to Deliver Digital Video Player” is just flat out misleading.
Apple is quite capable of delivering a digitalvideo player if they wanted to. However, and for good reason, they have decided not to. And I am sure that if Apple’s were to produce a DVP that it would be the best of breed – as is the iPod.
Y
ou article is just another example of a Windows biased author slanting your story to belittle Apple and make it appear that Microsoft is the real technological innovator.
Thanks for a good laugh. As long as you “hacks” have been singing Apple’s death knell, they keep giving you the middle finger right back. And btw – give me one good reason why Apple should allow WMA’s to play on a Apple product? Personally, I have no problem buying all of my music from iTunes. Their service is awesome and it works just great. I have no need for MSN’s store. The real reason this is a problem (like it is for Real) is that you Wintel fanatics are pissed that your crap WMA’s can’t play on THE BEST digital music player on the market. Awww……too f’ing bad. Get over it, ya bunch of friggn whiners.
Apple needs to be careful about who they license to or you get brand dilution. And besides the iPod is more open. It accepts MP3, non- protected ACC and Apple non-lossy formats. No way I want double-faced Jans DRM for me.
I still remember the times when Apple was king of the hill (late 80’s) and honestly, this attitude re: iTunes Music store/iPod is not that different to then.
It’s basically arrogance and it’s cost them dearly and it could cost them again.
There are signs they’ve changed so if things turn sour and M$’s or Sony’s site makes a huge inroad, maybe Apple will play differently this time.
The real revenue for both MSN and Real Music is not from selling tunes. It’s the ad revenue. Payola. This is the game these two want to play. Revenue from promoting music and advertising delivered by the media player.
APPL’s slogan is “It’s about the music”.
iTunes won’t convert DRM’d WMA.
iPod OS and hardware already supports WMA. Apple disables this functionality.
THE TRUTH?
The truth is Microsoft is pissed because for the first time Windows Media Player will have to rip to MP3, before the only option was WMA.
Also people will be burning WMA(10) DRM to audible cd and ripping back into MP3 to play on their cherished iPods.
Microsoft want’s everyone to use WMA DRMed only, this way they can lock the music to particular computers and their “branded” crappy players.
Apple provided a way out of the DRM and third party hacks like HYMN make it easy to strip off “Fairplay” DRM.
Microsoft doesn’t like this either because they have to play by the same rules Apple made in order to remain competitive.
Microsoft is getting a taste of it’s own medicine that it has been dishing out to the public for ages.
WAY TO GO APPLE!!
Now just come out with a iOffice package for Windows and Mac’s and <b>Really! <b/> kick M$ in the f*cking nuts!!
No,here’s what really happened:
BillG: You know Steve, we are just about to launch a new music service, and gosh it sure would be neat if you got your engineers to change the firmware in the iPod to support WMA files.
SteveJ: Well Bill, I’m really happy that we will finally have some REAL competition to keep us on our toes. But, I gotta say that the iPod is just about darn near perfect as it is. I don’t think it would be such a good idea to mess with it. But, hey, here’s an idea. How bout you join us, Motorola, and HP, in supporting AAC music files. Why, we could even make some iPods for you with Microsoft and the Windows logo laser etched on the back. Now, how cool would that be? And, working together, we could finally bring a combined music format to the masses.
BillG: Working together? Music for the masses? I’m going to have to pass.
Who is Thurrott? And, who cares what he thinks?
Why do so many in the press think they know so much about business, or politics, or __________ (fill in the blank)? Just give us the news and then shutup.
Who is Thurrott? And, who cares what he thinks?
Why do so many in the press think they know so much about business, or politics, or __________ (fill in the blank)? I don’t know any who could run a business or run the government. Why don’t they just report the news and keep their stupid opinions to themselves.
The problem with Thurrott (and any other Windows appologist), is that any company not going along with M$’s “standard” is not playing fair – period.
They live in a world of 1997, and have not moved since. Well, the world has passed them buy – it is now almost 2005, and Windows and M$ proprietary technology does not hold the weight it once did.
Hopefully, as M$ directly competes with it’s developers to drive them out of business, Napster, Real, Wallmart and others will throw highly public lawsuits M$ way. ; )
The real reason this is a problem (like it is for Real) is that you Wintel fanatics are pissed that your crap WMA’s can’t play on THE BEST digital music player on the market. Awww……too f’ing bad. Get over it, ya bunch of friggn whiners.
I would say that the new iRiver is level with the iPod in terms of useability and compatability, I compared them both and bought the iRiver instead, plus its works just as well as ipod+itunes. I’ve been using iTunes, but once the msn beta was released I couldn’t help but try it out, and I have found that the quality of songs (the majority) have the same sound quality as AAC (256kbps), Oh and just so you know, Apple opted out from MS selling AAC not running WMA on an iPod. Turdrott is a dumbass i know. But now i have a choice and that choice will be MSN, Im already a subscriber(10 yrs) and Actually, if you even had a PC, I think WMP 10 is a hell of alot better than any other WMP evr released, High def support, dvd support, hi-Mat, pictures, more formats, and last but not least TV and movies, straight from the web. We’re not pissed, were preterbed that Apple is, The same old Apple.
One source close to the matter says that Microsoft has made several overtures to Apple to make its store compatible with the industry-leading iPod but has been rebuffed. “If it comes to the market with Microsoft’s might, that’s a double bonus.”
So if they (Apple) allowed MS to sell AAC, they would sell more iPods.
Apple would be foolish to sign the WMA player license agreement with Microsoft. The agreement contains several killer clauses:
1) The licensee agrees to not sue Microsoft if Microsoft is found to be using infringing technology. The clause is legal in the USA, but is causing a stink in Japan. Can you imagine Apple agreeing to effectively allow Microsoft to rip off Apple tech with impunity?
2) A player license is needed for iTunes on Mac OS as well as for the iPod. Here’s the fun bit: The licensee agrees to provide Microsoft with prototype hardware and software incorporating the licensed components, while not holding Microsoft liable for infringement, leaks, or other problems that may arise.
Licensing WMA has the interesting side effect of handing over the keys to Apple to Microsoft.
Thurrott.. the iPod demand isn’t exactly waning.. WMA adoption would suck because Apple would lose music sales to ALL THOSE OTHER MUSIC STORES OUT THERE..
Thurrott? Free licensing.. pffft yea right!! hahahahahahaha MS wouldn’t do it.. what conjecture…
Best to just let the RealMusic Stores of the world squirm for a while, or Walmart… etc.
THurrott, you don’t get it.. it feels good when MS fails.
Hey noNo,
M$ has NO interest in supporting AAC or FairPlay. If you have proof that Apple rejected M$’s attempt to support a non-M$ format, I sure would like to see it. M$ is trying to establish WMA as a standard in the music download market for their own greedy interests. M$ thinks that Apple should bow down and support their efforts to dominate the music download market.
I’m glad you think WMP 10 is the best version yet. Being a Mac person, I wouldn’t know because M$ doesn’t see fit to support anything non-Windows. And, from what i”ve seen, saying it’s the best yet isn’t saying much at all. I’ve got my fingers crossed for you that, after you spend a ton of money with MSN, some script kitty doesn’t come along and take advantage of the Active-X controls and wipe out all of your WMA music. Of course, you can always contact M$ to get a refund, or allow you to re-download your tunes. But, I guess you could always restore from you forth rate player (iPod, Creative, Rio, iRiver in sales order).
As I said before… Apple is just like Microsoft – just in a different phase.
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So far, this iPod incompatibility isn’t much of an issue for me yet since I don’t download music at the moment. BUT… when it does become an issue, things like that will become more important and whatever is more open at the time will probably win out – granted that software for other players improves.
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Mac & PC Guy
As I said before… Apple is just like Microsoft – just in a different phase.
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So far, this iPod incompatibility isn’t much of an issue for me yet since I don’t download music at the moment. BUT… when it does become an issue, things like that will become more important and whatever is more open at the time will probably win out – granted that software for other players improves.
—
Mac & PC Guy
MDN: Although Apple’s continued refusal for license their FairPlay DRM makes us wonder about Apple’s contention that the iTunes Music Store exists only to help sell iPods. Perhaps Apple sees the iTunes Music Store as a real profit center in its own right in the future?
Of course it does! This has been Apple’s attempted bluff all along. Essentially stating to others, “don’t get into this business as there’s nothing in it – all the money goes to the record labels and credit card companies”. Retailers for years have been complaining for years on how low the margins are on music – doesn’t stop them investing shedloads of capital into a high street prescence though.
In the unlikely event that Apple manages to scare off the competitors and retain their similar 60% + market share 3-4 years from now. On these current adoption growth rates (200-300% per annum), Apple will own music per se in its full vertical market glory. Device, format, distribution and ultimately price leverage, which means they will indirectly own the record labels. Hell, when you retain a position of strength such as that possible magnitude, then Apple will attract Microsoftesque anti-trust crossfire, but also be able to possibly abolish the need for record labels by offering a greater direct to market solution to artists. The labels are fully aware of this scenario.
Hard to see that happening though, anyone’s dominance in the marketplace is bad news for everyone concerned. That’s why everyone is working behind the scenes to even up the playing field and halt Apple’s dominance.
Of course, I hope Apple bend them all over the rails because, like most of us here, we trust Apple’s values and innovative ability to progress, improve and continuously offer value even in a monopolistic position.
Here’s the actual translation. MS Shill to Apple, “We want to extend our monopoly by controlling DRM and you’re just not playing fair by not allowing us to rape you”.
Reply to NoNo::
I remember when AAC first came out, Apple made statements to the effect that MS should support AAC. MS did not. MS wants to control the industry through licensing with it’s own proprietary DRM. Essentially turning the digital music industry into the PC industry. Where by everyone will be making hardware that not only MS controls but also profits off of. All the people that believe Apple should allow WMA to play on the iPod have there head up there collective asses. Apple is doing the right thing as far as WMA goes, fo now. Make MS work for it. The iPod/iTunes is cross platform so any argument that compares this situation to 1984 is ridiculous. I also have to wonder how the other online stores that sell WMA formatted music feel about MS taking sales away from them. After all they decied to go with MS DRM now they are in direct competition with MS. MS again eating it’s children.