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BanditBill wrote:

"If Apple could offer a MacIntel running OSX and Longhorn for less than a Dell, delivered as quickly as a Dell. Then it's a no-brainer.

Too bad that isn't going to happen.

Many people are trained on Windows and feel no need for OSX.

Plus, many people will be keeping their existing hardware and just buying Longhorn. Even if it will run like shit."

1. There's no quicker delivery than walking into an Apple store, and they don't charge $100 shipping.

2. People who feel no need for an alternative to Windows and it's security problems are brain dead.

3. Longhorn (if and when it arrives) will not run on any currently existing hardware configuration. They'll all have to buy new machines anyway.

We all know that Jobs won't advertise. Hopefully Intel will.

"I haven't seen it first hand but one of the developers I know reported seeing some sort of program Apple was working on that was similiar to a fast user switch that allowed a client to seemlessly move between the two OS with minimal boot/restart time..."

If this happened, this would probably kill Apple permanently because developers would never be bothered to write a Mac OS X version of their programs. They would always say: "Oh, you want Mac compatibility for our program? Just boot up into Windows mode on your machine and you can run our program! We don't do native Mac OS X... just flip your computer into Windows mode."

As you can see, this would be the DEATH of the Mac, once and for all. No developer ever again would EVER write a piece of Macintosh software.

If these new MacIntel machines will run both OS's natively, isn't there still the problem of viruses and spyware (when running W-XP) and how would that effect the whole computer (when you want to change to OSX)?

I personally could care less about W-XP; I mean, if my car (or anything else for that matter) had the same problems as M$, then I would scream bloody murder to the dealership!

Am I the only one to hear Bill Gates' scream in terror and panic when Steve sat at his Intel iMac and displayed an awesome exercise of computer power?

Microsoft has been making people believe that you need more power to do awesome things on a Pentium. But, after Steve's demo, it is obvious that it is WINDOWS XP, not Intel, that is the cause of everything being slow and crashing. No longer are Apple and Microsoft/Dell on separate playing fields.

Now, any idiot tripping down Main Street can see the differences and not have to think about the Microsoft lies.

Very similar computers and two completely different operating systems; one is slow, crash-prone and bug infested, the other is smooth and swift. Okay, Mr. Gates EXPLAIN THAT?!!!

I don't think Apple will be able to keep up with the wave of eager customers jumping like rats from a sinking ship.

"No developer ever again would EVER write a piece of Macintosh software."

Scott, if MS stopped writting Office for Mac, it would open the door for Apple to step in and deliver an Office "killer" suite which they arlready partly have. The same goes for any other software company. Software companies would be very smart to continue to support the mac don't you think?

Chip speed and supply has always been Apple's Achilles' heel.

At least, in going with Intel, all of Apple's competition is in the same boat. If Intel can't cut the mustard, so to speak, Apple and the others will just painlessly switch to AMD chips.

Why buy an overpriced Apple 'Macintel' when competitively priced Dell PCs will run both Mac OS X and Windows with a patch or a hack soon?

"They run Windows fine. All the chipset is standard Intel stuff, so you can download drivers and run XP on the box."

http://www.macintouch.com/index.shtml#other.2005.06.08.xlr8

MDN Magic Word: "moment" ... of truth!

ooops:

http://www.macintouch.com/index.shtml#other.2005.06.08.xlr8

maybe that will work better.

sDrawkCab---I have both pc and mac...photoshop (and other programs) run faster on my pc. both pc and mac are comparable in processor speed.

-----------

reality check - correcto!!!
anyone seeing a dell intel 4Ghz and apple intel 4Ghz and then see how fast photoshop (or other type program) compares in speed on both (apple better be faster!)....then see that the dell is $500 to $1,000 cheaper than the designer apple version is going to go with the cheaper computer.
No one can justify to a boss the same computer, but this one costs more because it is an apple.

It would be like Porsche taking a Ford truck and making a cool looking Porsche body on it and then charging double...for a Ford truck.

drat. k. Here's the original source at xlr8yourmac.com

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/

Comments/Info on the Mac X86/Pentium 4 Development system

... "They run Windows fine. All the chipset is standard Intel stuff, so you can download drivers and run XP on the box." ...

Sorry for all the slop. We need editin capability in here, eh?

this whole thing gives me a headache...
i think it is time to not visit mac websites for about 6 month to a year and then let all the people that know what they are doing figure it out...

Reality Check,

Do you think Apple's that stupid not to protect the family jewels after hedging it's bets on the PPC for the last five years? Please explain what's over-priced relative to the equivalently-featured PC.

leodavinci,

Yah, "hurried" is the word. I wonder if the author bothered viewing the Keynote speech. If he did, then he clearly doesn't understand the technology about which he advises people. Or, just takes any dig he can, facts be damned.

You dont attack buy giving up to the other guy. You look like you
have no credibility because you have said for years that your chips were
faster and better and then all of a sudden you say that wasnt true--You
said you were unique and different and then you give that up. Apple
HAD a leg up on these guys because of longhorn problems, security
issues, and intel failures--There were options--CELL and dual core---
The people who will be hurt are the people who have already taken
a bite out of the Apple whose already obsolete Macs wont continue to be
supported. Apple lost its niche. All Jobs did was give Mac owners
a license to switch.

The choice of running Mac OSX or Windows? Hmmm. Here's the latest email from my poor Windows slave mother crying for tech support:

"Remember when you used to run my computer from yours? Can you still do that? I am so mad, I am getting things popping up on my screen and I don't know why? Also, Barb sent me a site to play free slots on and when I open it and start to play my computer freezes up??? I know, I should have bought a MAC!!!"

Yeah mom, you certainly should have bought a Mac

"Oh, so one could buy a Mac and run both Windows and Mac OS X or buy a Dell and only be able to run Windows. Muahahahahah!"

Teehee. He loved typing that I bet.

Lisa,

So in a couple of years when IBM doesn't supply laptop CPUs any faster/better than now, and when the 3GHz G5 fails to materialize, and when dual-cores come too late, and when CELL doesn't have Altivec or requires a greater change in OSX and application code than the alternative, will you be saying the same thing?

Intel grew and is growing. Their laptop CPU have FAR better speed/power ratios. And have you seen what Intel has shown Apple for their roadmap?

Did you buy a Mac soley because it is unique? If so, perhaps an Amiga would suffice? The OS is unique and the best there is. If you can't tell what's running under the hood, why do you care so much? Image?

Apple hasn't given up. It would have sticking with IBM. Apple attacked, and Intel wants Apple to succeed. Does IBM?

And what if... you could just bypass the whole Windoze thing and just run the applications natively in MacOS? That is the way I hope it goes as Windoze is the really annoying part of the equation (I use it all day at work and just can't stand the extra rooting around it requires).

"Why buy an overpriced Apple 'Macintel' when competitively priced Dell PCs will run both Mac OS X and Windows with a patch or a hack soon?"

Another valid question - in the same league - would be:

"Why buy an overpriced coffee maker when competitively priced Dell PCs will both make coffee and grill bread in the morning with a patch or a hack soon?"

Idiot, todays Apple computers cannot BOOT on OS 9, nor can install it if not in Classic. No sw crack or patch or hack can make todays Apple computers with the VERY SAME PowerPC chip run on previously perfectly legal OS 9.

I know you are a Windows user and used to be cracked and hacked but the real IT world does not work this way. It is frigging easy for Apple to absolutely prevent any PC, even with the very same CPU inside, to boot/install/run OS X. So friggin easy that it is not even in the radar of Apple. They could actually even prevent Windows to be installed but they declared they are not doing that because what best to give Windows users the possibility to spend money on Apple hw even if they do not want to run OS X. But if they do, you are truly a simpleton if you think the limitation is going to be just a software hack away.

"Why buy a Dell when Apple 'Macintel' computers will run both Mac OS X and Windows?"

Because in a couple of years Photoshop will run only on Windows. Do you sincelrely think Adobe (or any other major software developper) will develop two versions of PS when only one will be usable on any whatever-tel computer?

Reality Check: IUTIHEHOUHUHOHHOHOEHAHOEAHUAOEHAOEHUAOEHUHAU

you made me spill my coffee. Tell me you are joking. No one on hearth could be THAT stupid, even on Windows camp.

UHUHEOHHOHAOHAOHAOHEHAOHAOEHUAOEHAHOEUHEAOHAUH a Dell running Leopard with a sw hack..... UHUHAHAUHAHAHAUHHAUUHUHUUAH

UHEUHOHHOAHAHAHOAHOHAOHAOHOHUEUEDUHAHUAEOHAOU

thanks, you made my day. Apple is switching to Intel but Wintel user are still frigging stoooopid. Ahhh, something at least does not change.

"Because in a couple of years Photoshop will run only on Windows. Do you sincelrely think Adobe (or any other major software developper) will develop two versions of PS when only one will be usable on any whatever-tel computer?"

If that happens, then it is not OS X version the one to be ditched. Creative professionals are for the majority using a Mac.

Ahhh, another Windows users confirming the rule.

a hint: Windows does not suck less now that Mac will have Intel in 2006.

It will suck even more in direct comparison. Why spending effort in producing a Windows version when the OS X version runs circles around it.

"Ohh you are on Windows, well, we ship only for OS X now. Buy a Mac, we support more features and are 30% faster.
Didn't you know you may also run Windows there for whatever else you need? Btw, do you really need Windows? "

Maybe you all are forgetting the recent survey on SW sales in the US.
Macs count for 16% of the market NOW. and buy 30% more sw than Windows users.

Intel on the Mac will make the above grow, not shrink. Especially in desktop publishing.

Steve switched to Intel because he was desparate.
He had no further source of processors past what he has today and the next few months.
It was the end for Apple.
He did not want to switch, he HAD to switch.
If IBM had brought out the PowerPc as they thought they could, Steve would be right now denying that OSX would work on an Intel chip and that they were even experimenting with it.
This was not a planned move by Apple, it was a move made out of pure "Holy Sh*t, we are dead!!! The IBM processor thing is not going to work!"
Steve (and all you other Macwidget heads) are going to spin this failure harder and faster than any politician could.
This is half-assed, 2nd, third or 4th choice solution for Apple. But apparently the only choice Apple had.
Put this up as a bad mark for Steve´s management and foresite.
And what is doubly worse, he knew all this before Tiger was launched, but had 2 million of us upgrade and buy new computers based on more and faster and better Power PC processors are coming from IBM.
If he would have told this before Tiger was launched do think as many would have upgraded? Hell, no.
Total deception on the part of Steve Jobs.
There is nothing positive or good about this - it is a half-assed choice forced on us because of bad management by Steve Jobs at Apple.

From C/Net:

"Apple Computer's switch to Intel chips is no reason to raise the security alarm, experts say.

Yes, Macs will have the same hardware at their core as Windows PCs, but it is the operating system, not the hardware, that has made those Microsoft-based computers vulnerable to attacks, analysts and security researchers said."

Expect to see more and more 'revelations' on the theme Windows SUX.

In due time it will be "Yes, Macs have the same hardware at their core as Windows PCs but it is the operating system not the hardware that makes those Microsoft-based computers slow in comparison and unreliable."

Redmond has just ordered wagons of diapers: Ballmer "Mac with Intel? Is there something fundamental that changes with this shift? And I'll leave that to you to answer."

Already in denial and on the defensive. LOL

and a move out of desperation, not foreseen? Bad management?

Of course it is 2nd choice: the best choice and architecture is PowerPC but todays best choice, with IBM not delivering, is bound to become 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice in one year. Then Apple will be with the 1st choice in the market.

Bad management my ass. SJ saved Apple once again. If there was an idiot leading Apple today it would be "Holy shit, this IBM thing is not working, we have no choice but SELLING and CLOSING business".

Spin? What spin? saw the keynote? IBM is not delivering a 3.0 GHz G5 not delivering a mobile G5. Spin? It is a plain "IBM showed us they are not able to proceed". Luckily we never put all our eggs in one basket.
We are not tied to IBM failure and had a plan B all the time.

Outstanding bad management. What do you do for living, grow potatoes?

but we forgive you...

This was a contingency plan from Apple. Steve decided to exercise the option when it became painfully clear that IBM dropped the ball on desktop processors. It's nice to know that Apple has prepared for such emergencies.

That said, the pre-release of 10.4.1 on Intel looked pretty good. As most of us who watched the keynote saw, no one suspected that the machine Steve was demo'ing on was the Intel-based Mac. And this was a single 3.6 GHz P4. What were the requirements for the stripped down Longhorn? More than that, wasn't it? I wonder what goodies Leopard has in store for us?

In the next year to two years, we're really going to see the FUD fly. And when the true specs start rolling in showing signficant performance gains, the real fun begins.

Here's an answer: VMWare (http://www.vmware.com), check out their ACE product. Run pretty much every OS you'd want.

More unlikely would be the Apple-led return of the so-called [I]Red Box[/I] layer from Rhapsody (ah, 1997 - those were the days), which was supposed to allow Windows apps to run without Windows.

But what if Apple licensed "Red Box" technology to another developer, who then created a VMWare-like product that allowed the .EXE files you always wished the vendor would port to run as if they were on a standard Intel mobo, but without the security issues that come with running the Windows virus system.

Now if Apple were to do that, I'd actually pay good money for audio surveillance of the reaction of Kevin Rollins (Dell's CEO) and Steve 'Play that funky music, Monkey-Boy' Ballmer.

Phil? Order 66. Pass the word.

MacTel changes nothing...Not a thing but the chips and mobo's. Apple still controls the system. which means over priced intel hardware in a pretty little apple case.
Just because they decided to go with intel wont change anything. MS will still dominate...

people by on price, not on "intel inside"

I think you're all missing the point. let me explain:

1)Apple makes a system that is OS X / WinXP compliant
2)Users who buy a Mac that need Windows, buy windows or use a previous copy...
3)Microshaft still gets your money. and still grips the industry...

So the question is, Why would you buy a Mac just to turn around, give MS your money, and run windows?

If you must use windows, buy a 300 Dull.

Hi Jeff, very good anticipation (or guess if you will) with the first powerbook "pentium m" in September. As we all know it won´t be called powerbook G5 sniff, huaaaa mummii sniff sob sob! There will never ever be a POWERBOOK G5!! sniff sob (little teardrop).....
Well at least it will still be called "Powerbook" but it deserves
a good "second name" any suggestions... but please nothing with
"intel inside" or something like that
Powerbook Gm?

Cuckoo Clock - HOw about Powerbook GI?

Next gen - Powerbook GII

MrWolf wrote: That excuse died in the 90s.

Uhhh... you've stumped me. I don't recall making any excuses.

(2nd try at posting this... the stupid Magic Word jacked up the last message)

I don't think Steve ever wanted to work with IBM. His prediction of a 3GHz G5 was his way of challenging IBM to do what in the back of his mind he knew wouldn't be delivered on time.

NeXT computers worked with intel I believe and were probably Steve's first choice, but Apple had already committed to the G5. Would you buy your processors from a company that declared: "the PC is dead" ?

The G5 was Steve's second choice. Next year when MacIntel computers are released at lower prices, and are found to burn holes in Windows performance (more severely when Longhorn ships no doubt) we'll all understand why MacOS X was designed for Intel processors.

Only if Apple is priced competitively. Otherwise people will still by Dells or whatever and exclude themselves from OS X usage.

If it costs more to buy an Apple Intel, few people will pay more to run both operating systems. It's the same Mac vs. Windows story all over again, only with Macs able to run Windows at full speed instead of emulated.

Look at the other benefits of mac going over to intel;

1. Ichat AV - Could be compatible with ALL IM clients!
2. Seamless compatibility of .mac for windows and Macs!
3. Possibility of Apple hardware being cheaper!
4. Apple's market share doubling within a year!
5. Multi-national corporations seriously looking at the Mac OS as a viable and practical alternative to windows!!

And theres more too!

I think the main selling point when Steve launches the new range of Intel mac will be 'dual boot'.

This I believe will make Apple's hardware sales go through the roof!

Especially if ONLY Apple can make 'dual boot' machines.

This would be a very unique selling point that NO other manufactuer could do - because for them to do it they would have to licence OS X from Apple and Apple would not licence the OS)

Interesting times... If handled correctly by Apple this intel transistion could double Apple's market share overnight.

"Next year when MacIntel computers are released at lower prices, and are found to burn holes in Windows performance (more severely when Longhorn ships no doubt) we'll all understand why MacOS X was designed for Intel processors."

Dont count on the "Burn holes" part. Windows still has 10 yrs on x86 over Apple.

DirectX is Superior to OpenGL any day on any system.

Longhorn will be faster than XP running on the same hardware (about 35-50 % faster)

(mw)Finally the playing feild is "Level"

Fist off "Muahahahahah!"...ya, this is a very professional editorial. Also, the author is obviously a Mac lover and puts his opinions into this article.

Ok, with those issues aside the Mac OS which runs on an Intel...runs on an Intel weather it's designed for a PC or a Mac. I have a tester version of OS 10.4 X86 and it runs perfectly on my Dell with a P4. Also, if apple makes the moronic decision to code their to prevent the OS from running on other Intel processors then
A) Microsoft will follow suet and prevent Windows from running on a Mac Intel
B) If hackers can get Windows to run on a Macs Intel then they can (and will) just as easily run Tiger on a Windows Intel

Finally, the people Jobs is talking about are hackers, not main stream America, and hackers are no going to a over priced Mac computer when they can build one which and blow any Mac out of the water for half the price, leaving the market the same, not “checkmated.”

Fire Rollins and hire Rawlins! Dell needs the magic!