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http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050525/images/image046.gif

and thas a low bu/ram speed and only a sinlge core!!

If only Apple started selling MacIntels today! With a voucher for a free Mac OS X'tel on 666.

I haven't seen it first hand but one of the developers I know reported seeing some sort of program Apple was working on that was similiar to a fast user switch that allowed a client to seemlessly move between the two OS with minimal boot/restart time...

It's clearly a golden opportunity for Apple, unless they get greedy on pricing. Keep the sticker price no more than 10-15% higher than a comparably equipped Dell and they go from niche player to 800-pound gorilla. The market is theirs to lose. Again. Steve, please learn from the "$10,000 Lisa" fiasco. Hopefully this Leopard will change its spots.

Apple will remain a niche player on Intel so long as their prices are premium and the general populace are ignorant of the Mac advantage.

They will only become a true OS force if they licence to HP, Sony etc (under strict controls) and let the other PC makers do their marketing.

That said, it sounds like Apple and Intel are cooking up some disruptive technologies that will make as big an impact as the iPod.

Yeah... But if I can pay a little bit more and have a machine that runs both operating systems... Damn that is a bargan...

But my actual thought is that there will be a way to run Windows software in OSX WITHOUT windows installed...

Using mach kernel mklinux developers use to (or may be still do) run two version of linux on a machine to test the new version of mklinux. When new version of mklinux crashes, switch to stable version to figure out what went wrong, so Apple probably has the capability to let user switch between two or more OS.

Some of reasons to buy Dell over Macintel is, Dell does have better extended warrenty/insurance. Apple should consider offering similar warrenty/insurance.

Dell price will be lower than Apple's. Apple won't and should not compete in price against Dell.

Look for Intel Ads in due time targeting the Mac.

paraphrasing Intel CEO "what best could you offer yourself than what the best could offer you? Get an MP 64-bit powered Mac and run whatever you like at the speed you deserve" - Intel Inside logo + Apple Logo.

Daily, multiple times. For months.

>MDN wrote: PCs are turned over every few years

That's because PCs get faster than Macs... and at a faster rate of getting faster. :D

I do agree though, if Windows does run on Mactel then it'd make more sense to buy a Mactel even for Windows ops... IF:
- it is 100% compatible
- the price premium Apple generally likes to charge as a boutique seller isn't too high
- the machines are available (Apple supply problems aren't always other companies' fault)
- the non-Mactel boxes don't offer a better value.

I can't see into the future like some claim to, so I can't say that without a doubt, the Mactel boxes will be better than non-Mac Intel boxes.

:D

Does this mean, as Macs, we will have to mess with that crappy BIOS thingy and stuff like that? Also, will you simply have to hold down th "W" key or choose the proper partition in the Start Up preferences to boot in Windows? Personally, you won't ever see me do that!

There is too much speculation about a Mac with some sort of chip from Intel for what little information we know at least a year away from product launch. For all we know, Intel's final chip design could be significantly different from their current line of chips and NOT be compatible with other operating systems.

MDN, the press, and the whole Mac community needs to take a deep breath and count to X. We are acting just like those who are eagerly waiting for Longhorn.

Peace.

"They will only become a true OS force if they licence to HP, Sony etc (under strict controls) and let the other PC makers do their marketing"

Aint gonna happen.
The "closed" environment that Apple offers is an advantage. It's why Macs run so much better and we have to put up with so much less crap than Windows users.

Steve isnt going to turn Apple into a commodity product. Not gonna happen. As for it being more expensive. Again stupid shortsightedness. I gladly pay a premium for not having to constantly worry about incompatibilites and viruses and spyware. Those things have costs too. It's not just what you pay for at the register. Oh, lets not forget iLife and all the other great apps bundled with Macs. Find something as good on the PC side that's included and then maybe we'll talk.

MDN word; Today. As in, there's no reason not to buy a Mac TODAY.

Mac&PCGuy;: "That's because PCs get faster than Macs... and at a faster rate of getting faster"

I guess that killed the alliance with IBM. The G5 3.0 GHz should have been there a couple of Decembers ago and I should be running a Powerbook G5 by now. Sad but true. IBM had issues from the beginning, starting with not producing enough G5 to satisfy demand. Now not producing new G5s period.

After all the bruhaha I am very pleased Apple will have a supplier that will not leave it dry. There is a lot more to a computer than the CPU, but you get no computer without one :-}

I trust Apple -- if SJ says they needed to make this paradigm shift in technology to maintain parity with AMD and Intel-based systems of the future that will run Windows, I accept this. I don't like it that we customers have to endure yet another technology transition, but I accept it.

However, I am very disappointed that Apple is once again not in a position to exploit its three-to-five year lead on Windows and the next major Longhorn release. It is likely that this lead will be lost (or at least halved) and that Mac sales will stagnate for at least one year, perhaps two.

This is yet another golden opportunity that has been lost. Now that SJ has addressed Mac developers about the transition, he also needs to speak directly to loyal Apple customers about why we should fund yet another transition, and what we can do to help make it successful. I'd really like to see him have this heart-to-heart with the Mac faithful -- a downloadable QuickTime video for us the rest of us would do.

Geo: that would be great and very beneficial too.

>who are eagerly waiting for Longhorn.

I'd love to see Longhorn. I'd say I'm a computer enthusiast more than anything... right now I prefer running with Macs.

Other than your putting-Macs-on-a-pedestal rhetoric, I agree with your post.

Peace right back to you, brutha.

:D

MDN Magic Word: Island
Like in Apple is no longer an Island!

Hrm, soon the only way to distinguish youself as a "true" Mac fan will be to not have Windows installed as well...

"Aint gonna happen. The "closed" environment that Apple offers is an advantage"

That's why I said "strict controls". Mac clones would have to be identical to real Macs in every way for licensing to work. (Like the Apple iPod by HP)

as today it is by not having Microsoft products installed. What is a Mac running just Microsoft software anyway? YUCK

But why would you want windows on your computer???

Why not just buy a windows computer?

Maybe on Apple's new Intel CPU's you would be able to install both but not just on any old PC box. Apple will make sure that Tiger will only run on an Apple Intel box not anyone else's. Probably with special boot roms I would imagine. Remember Apple is in the hardware business so they will want to sell there own hardware. Not just let anyone sell anything that it might run on. But this could be the best way to sell there hardware. I could see the commercial now for Apple. Now you have a choice to run OSX or Windows on any Apple system you buy with the Intel processor in it. Of course OSX would be the default operating system and the user would have to go out and purchase the Windows system but hey, it could be another option for Apple to sell a lot more of there hardware.

"will have to mess with that crappy BIOS thingy and stuff like that?"

Right now, all we know for sure is that OpenFirmware will not be used on Intel Macs, and that "there's no reason you couldn't run Windows." That implies some sort of BIOS-based solution.

However, it's easily within the realm of possibility that Apple will write their own BIOS that drops support for all sorts of crap that's in current PC BIOSes for backwards compatibility. Most of that IRQ stuff is only relevant if you want to run Windows 95 or its successors.

That being said, I've used PCs at work for a long time, and haven't had to fiddle with the BIOSes in years, even when adding a new disk, card, or device... most of them "just work" these days.

S-

I see your point... however Dell has crappy support/warranty. As an IT Director with offices throughout the US, I can tell you first hand that Dell warranties suck. The PCs were somewhat satisfactory, but the servers were horrible, and the support was even worse.

With complete consensus from my entire staff, we have banned Dell from our orginization.

"But why would you want windows on your computer???

Why not just buy a windows computer?"

You might install Windows on your Macintosh to play all those games that never get ported. Which might make the game developers say "why port?" It's really the game developers/porters, I think, that are most afraid by this move.

You would want windows on your apple so you could get viruses that freeze it up so nothing works!

You would want windows on your apple so that when you get bored with working in Photoshop in Windows you can work in Photoshop using the MacOS...

u would want windows on your apple so that when your boss comes in you can quickly switch to windows because only the windows os is allowed in your company...

You would want windows on your computer so you could pay BOTH Bill Gates and Steve Jobs to own their operating systems....and all the subsequent updates...


u would want windows on your apple so you could have this giant hard drive to hold both os and software....

good grief this idea is soooooooooooo dumb.

>iPodder: I guess that killed the alliance with IBM. The G5 3.0 GHz should have been there a couple of Decembers ago and I should be running a Powerbook G5 by now.

I hear ya! I've been wanting, needing and waiting on a PB G5 for long, long time. I hope the PB line crosses to Mactel first. That'd be the dream machine for me.

Happy waiting iPodder!

"Apple will remain a niche player on Intel so long as their prices are premium and the general populace are ignorant of the Mac advantage."

You know this cost myth is really outdated. My company buys both Macs and Dells, and, comparably equipped they cost about the same! What more does Apple have to do?

For more info:
http://www.systemshootouts.org/

Am I wrong, or is this the official end of "Virtual PC"?

Every so often I HAVE to venture into the Dark Side on my Mac (mea culpa), and this seems to mean that I won't have to deal with VPC's machinations any more!

YES!

People need to accept change. This is second transition for Mac, third for Apple (6502, 68000, PPC, X86e), and it won't be the last. I expect another transition 10 ~ 20 years down the road. Apple has been fairly successful with transitions. Microsoft on other hand has failed in most attempts (X86, i432, i860, MIPS, Alpha, itanium).

Who needs VPC if you can run it natively on your intel processor? It'll run at native speed as well.

>Bart: You know this cost myth is really outdated.

The reason it persists is that it's very real. Switching to Macs cost time and money.

- Software needs to be upgraded/crossgraded (costs money).
- Software alternatives need to be found. Some Windows apps don't have a Mac port so a new product will need to be purchased. Many plugins don't have a Mac port. Many plugins have to be repurchased because they don't do crossgrading.
- It's a different OS and needs to be learned. The are some initial time/training productivity issues.

I'm not saying that Macs don't offer great value - they do! But the cost to switch is very real and can't be argued away by saying "they cost about the same".

---
>What more does Apple have to do?

I've oftened wondered this myself. iPod sales went nuclear when it was made compatible with Windows (the most popular OS on earth).

What if Apple did that for the Mac - make it compatible with Windows? Well, it seems Apple is doing just that.

Let me tell you work have slow down alot in the past few month for Dell and It not cause of lack of parts.

I think Intel is in heaven. They finally are working with a company that is innovative and doesn't hold them back. They are going to do amazing things with Apple.

Where is Apple hurting the most right now? I would think that's where they want to make changes first. Not the Mac mini.

Don't be surprised if there is an announcement at MacWorld in September of a new product. And it won't be a new Mac mini. It will be a Pentium M based Powerbook. Apple has no reason to replace the iMac or the PowerMac just yet. Yeah, the Mac mini could stand to get off the G4. But what will make Apple more money, the Mac mini or the PowerBook? I think its been in development for a while and Apple needs to get something out for the holiday rush. And laptops are outselling desktops now.

Now, the next big event is MacWorld. That's where SJ will be addressing the rest of us and not just the developers. Look out July!

What can we expect at MW? Well, my thoughts:

1. some of that new great hardware that SJ says is in the 'pipeline'. Probably a tablet and new wifi max.
2. iTunes rev for podcasting
3. initial details on Leopard
4. some details on new Intel processors
5. possible a video streaming store
6. new rev of QuickTime that allows faster streaming and better H.264
7. demos of OS X running on Intel
8. next rev of Tiger
9. more details on how the switch will affect us all, especially whether Leaopard will come as a universal binary and therefore run one current machines
10. more examples of native Intel software, maybe even Office!

We live in interesting times!

Remember, M$ bought it because people would use Virtual PC for PC.

If anything, this is going to be a cashcow for M$ selling Windows and Virtual PC for Mac. I can't see M$ being worried, especially since I am sure there is something worked out between them and Apple regarding technology sharing (both ways for x86 and PPC) and not treading on each other's territory... yet...

"It's clearly a golden opportunity for Apple, unless they get greedy on pricing. Keep the sticker price no more than 10-15% higher than a comparably equipped Dell and they go from niche player to 800-pound gorilla. Again. Steve, please learn from the "$10,000 Lisa" fiasco." (Winston)

Winston, I agree with your take 100%.

Back-in-the-day, I bought my first Mac for over $7,000! I think it was as powerful as my new pda.

The niche strategy with huge margin was obviously the wrong marketing decision. Lower margin, broad market segments is the ticket.

And yes, Hell, HP and the other "clones" are toast! (Figure it out). M$ is seriously against the ropes.

The masses and pop media will eventually pick up on this.

I came across this article from somebody who does technical "advising" in the publishing industry:
http://www.itworld.com/Comp/2296/nls_solutionsapple050609/

Hilarity ensues, but not for the reasons the author thinks.

So, "pricey" G5 models aren't cheaper than run-of-mill PCs. Go figure! Pricey PCs are more expensive than iMacs, too... Seriously, does one buy a high-end PC to run Quark express? Why would you do the same with a Mac?

And why would Windows running on an Intel-based Mac suddenly negate the product?

The answer to the question is "Because they are cheaper.".

David Coursey predicted this in Aug, 2002. His premise was "may the best OS win".
http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/4520-6033_16-4207510.html

"Why buy a Dell when Apple 'Macintel' computers will run both Mac OS X and Windows?"

Why do people buy crap from the Dollar Store. Because it' cheap and convenient.

If Apple could offer a MacIntel running OSX and Longhorn for less than a Dell, delivered as quickly as a Dell. Then it's a no-brainer.

Too bad that isn't going to happen.

Many people are trained on Windows and feel no need for OSX.

Plus, many people will be keeping their existing hardware and just buying Longhorn. Even if it will run like shit.

If I ever met anyone who would install the train wreck known as Windows XP on his Apple Mac, I would punch him in the face. I switched three years back and haven't regretted it a day since. I have no need to Windows at all. I really don't mind the processor change that much as long as it's transparent as Steve Jobs promises, but I feel sick at the notion that people are even thinking about trying to install Windows on a Mac.

Mac & PC Guy-

easy solution:
Terminal Servises/Citrix!

Both have clients for Mac and I use them daily.
All Windows-only apps can be deployed on MetaFrame/TS and allows seemless integration.

I have been deploying Server-Based solutions since the 90s and have NEVER had a problem using alternate OSes. It is used by 100% of the Fortune 100.

That excuse died in the 90s.

Actually the Macintel nickname seems more appropriate than the Mactel nickname.

Don't forget, in about 12 months, a host of very good Apple apps that were MacOSX only will be introduced to the Wintel world. Some companies should be very nervous.

Watch Steve Jobs knife bill gate's tablet pc with a better apple implemetation.

The fruit will be ripe for picking (pardon the pun). Buy AAPL.

I just want to run Mac OS X, OK?

Windows isn't welcome here!

To cptnkirk, Re your comment, "We live in interesting times!"

I just hope the "times" you're talking about don't turn out to be the kind implied in the old oriental expression, "May you live in interesting times."


To zupchuck,

I run Quark 4 & 5 in Classic just fine on my 2 year old, 17" iMac. Or did (I still do, occasionally). Now I use InDesign 2 in OS X and have switched to a PDF workflow for publishing my monthly magazine.

From the number of typos in that guy's article, it appears to be hurriedly ( and carelessly) written. I wonder why? It's like this guy could hardly wait to say something bad.

It only took one day and new fud was making the rounds.

If sales of current Macs tank because of desire for Intel Macs is so strong, we could see the new processors in Macs sooner than next June. I expect to see them demoed at MWSF in Jan. 2006 possibly with immediate delivery.

The CEO of Intel is already telling people to use other OS than Windows. Remember the quote from a few weeks ago if you want security now?

BanditBill wrote:

"If Apple could offer a MacIntel running OSX and Longhorn for less than a Dell, delivered as quickly as a Dell. Then it's a no-brainer.

Too bad that isn't going to happen.

Many people are trained on Windows and feel no need for OSX.

Plus, many people will be keeping their existing hardware and just buying Longhorn. Even if it will run like shit."

1. There's no quicker delivery than walking into an Apple store, and they don't charge $100 shipping.

2. People who feel no need for an alternative to Windows and it's security problems are brain dead.

3. Longhorn (if and when it arrives) will not run on any currently existing hardware configuration. They'll all have to buy new machines anyway.