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So good. No more bitching about it......Rock on Macbook Pro.

So good. No more bitching about it......Rock on Macbook Pro

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hehe.. geeks will always find something to bitch about, they're so miserable.

Complaints are not moot. Without a native port, we lose use of the slot when we may have wanted to use it for some other purpose - samples of which are listed by Jack himself. Condemn those who want to use FW 800 to loss of the slot for something else and think that complaints are now moot? Think again.

Use ExpressCard to Stop Whining.

It's a concept similar to all the iPod accessories. You can't use the radio tuner and voice recorder at the same time. Soon you'll see new products come out of the woordwork, and Apple will have an ExpressCard category in its Mac Accessories page on the Apple Store.

Patience is it all it takes; we been waiing since last June for these Macs (and they're EARLY!), we can afford to wait a little longer.

Mr. Wells,

Not including the FW800 port allows the MacBook Pro to be smaller, lighter and less expensive for everybody who does not own FW800 peripherals. It isn't only negative for everybody.

Hg Wells,

The cards are hot-swappable.

Mike,

You guessed it.

uhh, neither are shipping so this is all moot.

some of those express 34 are expected 1st Q 2007! Yah-humbug.

Yorktown, the cards cannot be swapped if an external FW 800 (only) drive is in active use. A number of us have Lacie FW 800 drives (or other such peripherals) and would like to be able to use them concurrently with other things as we can now.

Mike & G, I understand that some of you are unable to use basic pieces such as an external hard drive in your iMacs and iBooks, but the world does not only revolve around the needs of newbie Mac users with consumer level computers. Some people do more than Internet browsing, email, and looking at a few family photos.

Daner, you are correct. However, I do also wonder how many additional millimeters in thickness would have had to be added to include FW 800 ( or a faster optical drive). Perhaps too many. Perhaps an acceptable tradeoff. On the other hand, if I can get adapters to use with an external SATA (with which I am not familiar) that is purportedly three times faster than FW 800, then I could be happier.

isn't the firewire800 port smaller than the fw400 port (granted the inside pieces might be smaller but they still included it on the 1" 17 PB) so the argument that they didn't include fw800 to make it smaller is flawed. I still think they should have included it since you might have an external drive connected to that tv tuner so it can record straight to that drive. But I guess it's better than nothing and apple is now using an industry standard so any product that comes out, apple can also use so I guess it's still sort of a win.

Intel does not support FW800. ExpressCard/34 is a good solution. Not everybody wants FW800 anyway. For those that do, add it.

I think FW800 is a gruesome oversight. FW400 is terribly slow, and it strips a critical port from the computer. And HELLO, a card slot is good for only one device at a time; sure you can switch cards out but not if you need multiple functions at the same time. And as many are pointing out vaporware devices are useless. This SUCKS!

They should leave out the Airport, Blue Tooth, and optical drive, too, since not everyone needs those. But of course charge the same price.

Hg Wells said:

Mike & G, I understand that some of you are unable to use basic pieces such as an external hard drive in your iMacs and iBooks, but the world does not only revolve around the needs of newbie Mac users with consumer level computers. Some people do more than Internet browsing, email, and looking at a few family photos.

Real simple then: don't buy it. Write Apple and tell them. I am not a newbie, and I have many external drives [thankfully nothing in FW800], but this MBP still meets my needs, even though it won't allow me to use my Verizon EVDO card [though I expect that matter to be solved]. So, for me, I buy it. But your needs are obviously not met.

Do the various ExpressSlot cards make the issue "moot"? No, I agree with you, but this issue is also not a deal-breaker for many. And those many are not merely newbies. I have been a Mac user since 87, and I own two Aluminum PBs. But the MBP was good enough for me to take that next step. The world also does not revolve the smaller universe of "advanced" users, whatever those are. Apple had to start somewhere in this transition. I am pretty happy with the decisions they made [bought both an iMac and an MBP]. Do I wish there were no compromises? Of course, but that prospect is rarely an option.

what about a workaround the lack of an s-video port, pardon my ignorance, does anyone know if there is a solution to this valuable port going missing in the fast new macbook pros?¿? thanks for any helpful replies

External SATA (eSATA), which claims peak interface speeds up to 3 times faster than FireWire 800

WELL OK THEN!

Of course one can only hook one eSATA drive, so that means a large external drive with 7,200 RPMS and slow as hell.

Sort of a waste right now until someone comes out with a external 15,000 RPM with about 256MB of cache.

Sure "daisychain" and RAID O you say, then your eSATA interface becomes a bottleneck.

migueloncito

There are DVI to S-Video adapters. You can use S-Video out on the MBP via this adapter.

MW: working.

And this is the "Pro" version laptop - wonder what the consumer version laptops will leave out???

To me, the majority of Apple computers are now being built aimed at the average consumer who uses his or her computer to just surf the internet, writes e-mail, plays with photos and downloads videos and music through iTunes. The last part being the most important factor (more revenue $$$$) to Apple.

Why we don't have FW 800 on the MacBook Pro:

"...Apple said it would have required them toi build a specific FW800 card (Intel does not support it), and that they had no plans for it..."


http://www.hardmac.com/news/2006-01-15/#5013 - Article title: "Why we have no official info on the MacBook Pro's battery life"

It's possible that they may add it in a future release, but Apple may have preferred to get the first Intel-powered Macs out of the door sooner in order to encourage developers to port their apps more quickly (not to mention the fact that they would have been left woefully behind in the speed race).

"Complaints are not moot. Without a native port, we lose use of the slot when we may have wanted to use it for some other purpose - samples of which are listed by Jack himself. Condemn those who want to use FW 800 to loss of the slot for something else and think that complaints are now moot? Think again."

I'm with you 100%. Aside the fact that I'll have to shell out extra $$ for a FW800 card, the Macbook now has one less default feature than it used to. I'm not thrilled about the slower Superdrive, either. For what ever reason, Apple seems to be moving away from Firewire lately (see the current iPods), and I find that somewhat depressing as it's better technology than USB2.

As a Mac user since 1988, I can't remember the last time Apple took away non-obselete features when upgrading a product and then charging the same money. I hope this is just a case of them rushing the 'book to market to beat the Windoze competition and not a sign of things to come.

Either way, I'm definitely going to wait until at least Version 2.0 to buy a new MacBook (Hate that name. They need to go back to Powerbook ASAP).

I really hope they bring all these little gadgets to market soon. I would love to pick up a ExpressCard Compact Flash reader for like $20-$30. FW800 may be useful someday, but currently I have no devices that use that (it's a cool connector though).

Also I thought FW800 was hotswapable, I know in OS X you probably should "eject" the disk before unplugging it, but big deal...then you could hotswap your express card for whatever else...better than the SCSI days. I'll bet manufacturers will come out with all types of expansion ports for these - dual USP, Dual FW400&FW800;, hopefully SATA.

Sing-along!

"Old MacDonald had a MacBook, eee-aye, eee-aye, ohhh!

With a MacBook here and a MacBook there, here a Mac, there a Mac, everywhere a MacMac,

Old MacDonald had a MacBook, eee-aye, eee-aye, ohhh!"

What's more inexcusable is that they left out the modem.

I've never used the FireWire 800 on my PowerBook G4. I have used the modem a lot!

The external USB modem is a joke for true road warrior like mayself. It is just another damn thing to lose!

Maybe all the hotels in Cupertino have high-speed Internet in the room, but out in the real world it is still a rarity. Hence the modem is essential for staying connected. Lose that damn USB modem and you are SOL!

So let's start squawking about the missing modem!

(The lack of a modem on the desktop iMac is not a problem to me.)

MW = ready => Without a modem, a MacBook Pro is not road ready.

If you need the FW800 get yourself a powerbook and quit complaining, or wait until the next version of the Macbook comes out and see what options are available.

This is Apples FIRST Intel Mac.

Geez, what a bunch of complaining babies out there.

I think the song goes like this:

"Old MacDonald had a farm, eee-eye, eee-eye, ohhh!

And on the farm he had a MacBook eee-eye, eee-eye, ohhh!

With a MacBook here and a MacBook there, here a Mac, there a Mac, everywhere a MacMac,

Old MacDonald had a MacBook, eee-eye, eee-eye, ohhh!"

YoWhiners - ain´t it the true, nothing worst than whiners whining about whiners!

It seems that there are many people here who have no use for and no interest in FW 800. That's fine. There are many things that I don't use, too. It seems that some people have a problem with Apple including more features instead of less features. Don't additional features increase the calue of the unit rather than decrease it in case you do find a future need for it?

In fact, this issue won't affect me right now since I am waiting to see what Apple does with the 12" configuration. However, why even post on an article dealing with FW 800 if you have no interest in it. And why criticize those who do have an interest and a use for it. It affects those people alone. So, it is those people who correctly have a right to be concerned. Just as it is important for modem users to complain about the dropping of an internal modem. And I certainly also agree with that concern - especially in a portable. I get the feeling that Apple designers put a higher priority at staying within the 1" thickness than being sure the features people want or need are properly included.

When it came to FW 800, you didn't say anything because you didn't use it.
When it came to the modem, you didn't care because you didn't need it.
When it comes to what you do need, there will be no one around to speak up for you either.

What is a modem?

Why 9 R

YoWhiners - ain´t it the true, nothing worst than whiners whining about whiners!

That be you then.

All of DELL laptions revisions suck. Sony discontinues their models 2 months later.
At least Apple gives you what Job's thinks will be the future. Stop whining.

Geesh, if all of the car buyers would come in an complain about the options, I would have a mental breakdown.

To omit FireWire 800 from an officially designated Pro machine is a pretty bad move. My feeling about the missing FW 800 is that the MacBooks were essentially a rush job.

There were reports that Intel was designing or co-designing the motherboards of the iMac and MacBook. Since no PCs I've ever heard of have ever included FireWire 800, it stands to reason that it would have been a bit too much work, under tight time constraints, for Intel to include FW 800 and do it right.

Remember, Intel has a big stake in Intel-powered Macs succeeding!

Maybe Apple is planning on introducing FW 1600 or even FW 3200 in their next round of machines. Let's hope so!

Put all your suggestion in Steve Job's suggestion box, Thanks you

Well, I just bought a LaCie drive yesterday with 3 connectors - USB2, Firewire 400 and Firewire 800.

For me, the lack of FW800 on the Intel notebooks isn't a huge issue, but a nice to have, since it doesn't mean I'm losing my "standard" FW port if I plugged into it (leaving room to plug in older iPods, or the real iSight camera for example.)

The lack of modem is going to be a pain for many - I used to use it for tech support (since where I worked "VPN" probably meant something to do with virgins to the powers that be.) I haven't used it in years however since I left that job, but I can imagine many still do.

I believe that having to shell out for these ports - at exhorbitant prices of course - isn't the answer. $50 for a modem??? C'mon! Wireless routers almost cost that much. I'm sure it doesn't cost that much to add modem functionality in on board, or FW800 for that matte. I think it's just another avenue used to rip consumers off.

The best thing to do is NOT buy these products until they have what you want, even if it means buying 3 generations in (difficult for many, but easy for some.)

Ironically, the Magic Word is "Costs".

Travel constantly. Use a modem about 6 times per tear. USB modem is fine. What do you modem complainers want next, an internal floppy drive?

MDN MW: "probably"

If the Macbook Pro was a rush job, why are people buying it and what motive does Steve have in releasing junk? I guarantee that the next Macbook won't have FW800 either.

Firewire is dying... it's not even supported for syncing new ipods anymore as a cost- and space-saving measure. I'm thinking the same approach was taken here. Form over function? Maybe...

Ha Ha. All you whiners love Apple so much you complain about Apple's choices in their products. Us PC users accept any decision in what Michael Dell does in his notebook line and add an adaptor to the cart for $49 bucks.. I laugh again.

Off-topic, but related to the above post:

Do they even read the suggestion box at Apple?

I remember suggesting they do something to sort out that annoying gap between songs on iPods, ruining classical music, concept albums like Sgt Peppers, Dark Side of the Moon and Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds, as well as live concert albums.

I complained about this soon after the 3rd generation came out.

I'm still waiting to see that "suggestion" taken care of.

Btw, the bulls*** excuse about being able to join the tracks into one track is just plain stupid... esp. when these tracks would end up being 50 mins long... Come on! Even vinyl records had "gaps" between tracks so you could tell where to start if you wanted a particular track! I've seen an online petition, but that won't work... complaining to anyone doesn't seem to make a difference in this case.

I'm still waiting for a patch for my PowerMac G5 Boeing engine fan noise and lock up during screen saver and power saving mode. 3 generations and people are still complaining. No fix. So like Apple will listen to us complaining about the missing options on their new MacBook Pro.

I bet a modem is used by more people than FW800 or even the external monitor port - removing the modem is a probably a crazy thing to do right now.

I remember laughing at those PCs which used to have dicky looking PCMCIA cards sticking out the side for the modem and ethernet jacks b/c they werent standard - yet this is almost what we're back to with the external USB modem/FW800 cards.

What I want to know from Apple is what is Apple's future plans for FireWire.

• Is Apple going to keep FireWire or concede to USB2?
• Will FireWire continue to have two different plugs or will they in the future standardize on one?

Microsoft just made an official commitment to Office for the Mac. I wish Apple would do the same for FireWire.

Keeping FW boot and target disk mode with the MacBook Pro is great news. I hope Apple keeps it for the new iBook, er, MacBook Amateur.

FYI - I do have a FireWire 800 drive but it also works with 400.

DBS ain´t so what say that I am what I wrote: "YoWhiners - ain´t it the true, nothing worst than whiners whining about whiners!"

`Cause I am whiner whining about whiners who whine about whiners!!!

And I am all for whining!!!! Nothing changes unless people complain about it.

Dear Steve Jack:

I'd like to tout my own horn for a second;-)

I beat you to the punch!

I posted pretty much the same FW800 arguments twice on MDN:

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/8214/
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/8213/

"I'm still waiting for a patch for my PowerMac G5 Boeing engine fan noise and lock up during screen saver and power saving mode. 3 generations and people are still complaining. No fix. So like Apple will listen to us complaining about the missing options on their new MacBook Pro."

Are you talking about this: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302212 ?

If you are, Apple took care of this in November, 2005 - two months ago. It's available for users of 10.3.9 and 10.4.3.

The new Mac Joke Pro boots from firewire. I believe the quote on macintouch was 'only from firewire'. Firewire isn't dead. The best point made in this thread is:
"I can't remember the last time Apple took away non-obselete features when upgrading a product and then charging the same money"

Yep...where's the price break? So...on the other side of the bridge all those companies use apple parts to convert from ata to fw? Uhm...like No. Not a DL superdrive..erm..burn.. If it wasn't for the fact that we know Apple has at least a 20% margin over this I'd say it was cost cutting on 5 buck parts. Let's just be realistic. This is not the intel powerbook that Apple wanted to release. lame name isn't helping either.

So yeah..the express card thing is nice...of course there are very few peripherals and if you use it for fw800 you're giving up a port over previous machines

Sure..we get a high speed switched architecture over a big tree of descending devices...unfortunately we still get no fw 800 AND a good ExpressCard device. If it's that fast then aren't we going to see devices that go above the "ExpressCard Bandwidth support:• USB 2.0: 480 Mb/s "
and shoot for the "• PCI Express: 2.5Gb/s". Do we need to give up all the rest of that available bandwidth for fw 800? Is it even profitable to make devices that cost more than 1 buck to make and don't use it all? Not much of a surprise that one of the first cards is a card reader *rolls eyes*

'it's not really a powerbook...it's not exactly an ibook...damn..we need a new name so nobody confuses it with a powerful or inexpensive macintosh...erm..erm...*cognitive failure* Eureka!!! Mac Book Pro'

How about a new Airport Express Base with an internal modem?

Ehternet connector, modem connector and wireless LAN.

If you're not in reach of a wireless network, use your Airport Express.

Apple sells Logic "Pro" for its "Pro" machines. Many audio interfaces and DSP hardware utilize Firewire. To say Firewire "doesn't matter" reflects the trailer park opinion, not that of professionals that truly utilize the hardware to its fullest to earn a living.

This is good news. I have one question though...

Will the ports be flush with the Power... errr... MacBook, or will there now be components sticking out the side? I suspect the later, unless the new card slot is taller than the old PC card slot that I am currently looking at on my Powerbook. The Firewire port itself is taller than this slot.