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no reason to wait... too good to wait.

Like a universal architecture type Apple machine that may have PPC now, but that you can also pop an Intel into in the future so you don't have a perceived or real legacy machine?

When did Jon Stokes start working for Apple? His "roadmap" is nothing but a speculative guess. Face it people, we have no clue what Jobs and Co. really have in store for us. The possibilities for what could be in store are endless, and I'm sure we haven't a clue as to the real plans behind all this. Everyone in journalism needs to chill and take a few minutes to unwind their panties.

How is waiting for an Intel chip in a Powerbook any different than waiting for a G5 in a Powerbook?

This was my main worry about the processor switch. It's going to kill off the stream of people coming over to the Mac just as it was gaining momentum. By the time the Intel Macs start coming in bulk, Longhorn will only be a few months away, rather than at least a year and a half.

I think Apple will be really lucky to sell 700k+ machines a quarter for the next year. I just hope that once the new machines arrive, those users who were holding out haven't given up hope already and bought a Wintel.

A lot of people are NOW buying Powerbooks because they don't want to wait.

I love how everyone is throwing the term "LEGACY" around now like it's a swear word.

This is only somewhat different than purchase freezes on announcements of regular hardware upgrades — G4s to G5s, MHz bumps, etc.

Ian - because the Intel chip in a PowerBook might actually happen.

In the computer world (at least from an admin POV) it *IS* a swear word.

Given:

a) nothing ever works how you want it to right out of the box
b) with enough money, you can make a thing work the way you want
c) no matter how much money you've got, you won't make the legacy thing any better than it is right now.

That's a swear word.

The Bandit has got a point - people have been holding off buying PB because they thought a G5 was around the corner.

Now that they know that an Intel PB Mac won't be for at least another year - why wait.

Hopefully that scenario will be significant, versus the wait until Intel Macs arrive before buying.

If I were in the market for a new mac, I probably wouldn't wait.

Steve Jobs isn't stupid. In fact, he's a genius. And he's surrounded by some very smart people. It would make sense that Jobs and Apple have a plan.

Yes..Jobs isn't stupid, but I have come to learn that in general, people can be very stupid. I am just hoping that Steve has such a brilliant plan, that it will keep Apple in the black for the Transition period. I'm more than sure that it will happen.

For those that don't know Steve (like 99% of "analysts) they will wait because they will apply the fear they have felt from other computer companies.

For those of us that know Steve as the genius captain of Apple that he is, we all know that he has NEVER left ANY of his users in the cold... well, he did use the word "laggard" to describe those still using OS X 10.1, but he is STILL there for them!!!

If I needed a new Mac, I wouldn't hesitate a minute, and I'd run right down to my nearest Apple store.

A sales drop-off is indeed the biggest threat Apple is facing. Indeed, it should be Apple's biggest concern.

However, consider that there is still a lot of uncertainty in the air. A lot of people are reacting emotionally. What Apple needs to do is get realistic and follow-up by turning lemons into lemonade. Let's see some immediate price cuts. Let's see new models that are pimped to the max in terms of available technology. More price cuts.

I mean, let's get realistic. Who wouldn't want to pick up the current 15" PowerBook G4 for $1499? Or the 12" PowerBook for $999? Or a 12" iBook for $799? How about a Mac Mini for $399 - $299 for Christmas? Apple's gonna need to cut prices to these levels to tell users, "Hey, PowerPC is still great and the party is just beginning!"

Sitting on its collective ass and hoping to squeak in to the finish when the first Intel Mac appears is the worst thing Apple can do. There are plenty of things Apple can do to make PowerBooks a great buy today. Who wouldn't pick up a It just takes guts and the insight.

Honestly I am completely lost. I just purchased my PPC G5 a year ago and I dont know what is going to happen as far as supporting my hardware configuration. All of this Intel stuff is puzzling, supporting two different chips is not something new (Intel and AMD). I just dont like being in the dark about all of this. I dont care who owns a Mac or who is going to by a Mac in the future I am worried about my Mac and now. So if you have any insight please let me know.

Every computer becomes legacy the moment it rolls off the assembly line and into a box, because that computer will not receive the latest and greatest technologies being built on that assembly line from the following day forward.

You might not wait - I will though. It just put a halt to a computer purchase for my family until more information became available.

It will hurt - there are a lot of folks just like me that stopped in their tracks.

I bought a Mac mini yesterday, and will probably buy another in a week or so. There's no reason that they won't server there purpose for a long while. Additionally, I have 800MHz PowerBook. There are better, faster, more tricked out PBs now, but it doesn't stop my current PB from being just as fast, just as useful, and just as much a plain joy as the day I bought it. No matter what you buy today, there will ALWAYS be something different and faster around the corner. Just as I've used Classic mode to handle the (thankfully) dwindling of apps that weren't OSX native, it looks like Apple has covered legacy software issues pretty nicely with Rosetta. If I had a need for another G5 PowerMac I wouldn't hesitate to buy it now...IF I had a need. That's the question. If you can put a new Mac to productive use now, you should buy it now, cause it's going to be a couple of years before the really juicy stuff hits the streets.

>Steve Jobs isn't stupid. In fact, he's a genius.>
Genius is not far removed from insanity.

" I mean, let's get realistic. Who wouldn't want to pick up the current 15" PowerBook G4 for $1499? Or the 12" PowerBook for $999? Or a 12" iBook for $799? How about a Mac Mini for $399 - $299 for Christmas? Apple's gonna need to cut prices to these levels to tell users, "Hey, PowerPC is still great and the party is just beginning!"

Yes, let's get realistic. As a stockholder, I would rather have Apple lose a few (or many) sales and get 0 profit from them than have them get sales at a negative profit.

It's like the old saying: "We lose a dollar on every one, but we make it up in volume". Not a way to get ahead in any business.

whatever, don't worry about your G5 - it has plenty of legs left in it. You can do exactly the same thing you were able to do last week, right? Does the announcement prevent you from accomplishing any task on your Mac?
Will it even stop you from getting your work done 6 months or a year from now? The answer will be no.

In fact, you should learn to enjoy your G5 and stop worrying about whether it will become obsolete. The fact is, all computers become "obsolete" after 3-5 years, depending on the user.

Consider how comparatively little you can do with a gumdrop iMac G3 today compared to your G5. You wouldn't be able to run Tiger. No iLife '05. No GarageBand. No iSight video conferencing. No iTunes 4.8 or iTunes Music Store. With only USB 1.1 ports, your iPod experience would be positively awful and forget about editing movies in iMovie. And that iMac would be running on a PowerPC G3 chip, and it'd be FAR more obsolete today than your G5 will be in 2007.

So don't worry, accept the fact that you can get a very product 4 years out of your G5, 5 years if you stretch it. And don't stress out thinking, "I have to buy an Intel Mac in 2006" because, really, you won't need to. With today's G5, you should be fantasizing about what kind of Mac you will be able to pick up in 2008.

Enjoy your G5. It's still a kick-ass, trouble-free, virus-free, adware-free computer that purrs like a Tiger.

I was going to by a new Powermac G5 (was waiting for a dual core PPC) but not now. I'd rather wait for something that software vendors will be writing software for in the future.

(About the only way I'd buy a new dual core G5 Powermac if is the price was slashed by at least 60%. I don't want to throw away $3000.00 on a cool looking boat anchor).

I don't know why Apple doesn't start selling these Intel boxes now...

- Mark

critic wrote: "Yes, let's get realistic. As a stockholder, I would rather have Apple lose a few (or many) sales and get 0 profit from them than have them get sales at a negative profit."

I'm a stockholder too, but I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that Apple is somehow making zero profit from their Macs at the current prices? That's pretty laughable.

Apple has one of the highest margins in the industry. Their Macs have an average gross margin of nearly 30%. Apple has a LONG way to go before it begins selling any Mac for a loss.

But if Apple cuts gross margins to, say, 20%, that could not only prevent a sales collapse, it may actually boost volume. Because people can never resist a deal. Staying with the current margins is a recipe for disaster.

At this point in time, with Mac sales growing 40% on a year-on-year basis, it is more important for Apple to keep the momentum up and take a small hit on profits (which can be offset by profits on Tiger sales, iTMS, and iPods) while continuing to maintain 40% growth in Mac sales. Apple needs to create the impression that it is going into the Intel transition BIGGER AND BADDER THAN EVER instead of shrinking and retreating in the minds of consumers.

That's reality.

Why buy a mac now for premium prices when an intel/imac will support both operating sytems? Sure it's 2 years away but isn't worth the wait. It has nothing to do with the longevity of a new mac more than the potential of an intel/mac.

That being said I just shipped back my new iMac G5 for the second time due to dead pixels. I will now use my refund and buy a dell 24" monitor right after I perform an operation on my aging powermac.

This is from an Apple advocate. The one thing that this intel news has taught me is that brand loyalty should not compromise a pragmatic approach. i.e. Apple/Intel's joint venture.

how short the memory is, this transition is going to be far less painful then the move from the 68K processor the PowerPC processor, and look how well that went.

Apple are strong for it, and now they make the next move.

For those concerned over losing support for OS 9, well for those not making the move to OS X, the new machines will be a great incentive.

As Steve pointed out, software will be sent out for both PowerPC and Intel, so as long as developers don't hold back, most should not feel that much of a problem.

As someone has already mentioned, no G5 Powerbook, so how much longer is the wait going to be for the Intel version when IBM where having so much problems getting the G5 to work in smaller units..?

There are always going to be people writing the end of Apple, they do it with every change that occurs, but when a 'what if' plan has been in place at Apple for nearly 5 years, Steve and the rest of Apple are hardly just supply deciding to move to Intel, they did not decide and cross their fingers...now is a good time, Apple are riding high, onwards and upwards.

:o)

thanks Newtype for the reply

Mark wrote: "I was going to by a new Powermac G5 (was waiting for a dual core PPC) but not now. I'd rather wait for something that software vendors will be writing software for in the future."

This is a red herring that will apparently never die and something Apple needs to actively fight the whole way.

Exactly what software will vendors stop writing for the PowerPC in the next two years?

Microsoft Office 2004 is PowerPC native. The next version of Office will be native for BOTH PowerPC and Intel.

Adobe Photoshop CS2 and Illustrator CS2 are native for PowerPC. The next versions will be native for BOTH PowerPC and Intel.

iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, GarageBand, Pages, Keynote are native for PowerPC today, and the next version will be native for BOTH PowerPC and Intel.

Same for Final Cut Pro.

In fact, virtually every application will have PowerPC versions for years to come for this simple fact. There are more than 16 million PowerPC Macs currently in use and by the time 2006 arrives, that number will have increased to 20 million or so.

Just because Apple introduces an Intel Mac in 2006 doesn't mean those PowerPC Macs will suddenly stop working or those users will stop buying software. It would be incredibly stupid for any developer to stop writing PowerPC apps for the next 2-3 years, and what means you will still have Office 2007 PowerPC native and Photoshop CS4 PowerPC native.

After that, support will probably drop off, but hey, I don't see anyone running Photoshop CS2 under Tiger on a Blue & White PowerMac G3 these days, either.

So enough with the "I was about to buy a $3000 PowerMac but now I won't buy a Mac until 2007 because all Macs today are obsolete" - just be honest and admit you weren't really intending to buy a Mac until 2007 in the first place.

Apple needs to really advertise the OS. Use quotes from the media. People will buy the current hardware just to run OS X knowing that it will be supported.

And by the time the new Intel Hardware is released, there will be many preorders.

Of couse sales will slump. BUT, Apple does have cash reserves to survive.

"I love how everyone is throwing the term "LEGACY" around now like it's a swear word."

What's worse, "legacy" or "early adapter"?

Never buy version 1.0 of anything. The Intel Macs will be an all-new platform, and IMO it'd be best to wait for them to be street-proven and be given a few updates first.

That gives you a 1-1/2 to 2 year timeframe before seriously considering the new platform. If you can wait that long with your current hardware then do it; otherwise pick up a new Mac now and fit the Intel Macs into the regular replacement cycle. The biggest issue is software, and with future "fat binaries" it's a non-issue.

whatever, no problem! These are uncertain times, but it's quite clear that Steve Jobs and the rest of the team at Apple has planned this very carefully and put a lot of thought into it.

If it is any consolation, my Mac at home is an aging PowerBook G4 running at 400 MHz (the very first G4 model). The thing is 4 years old already and still does most of the things I need it to do. It's running Panther (10.3) but only because I have chosen not to install Tiger on it.

But after 4 years, it is due for a replacement. There are few things it can't do today, like iSight video conferencing or running GarageBand which needs a 600 MHz processor or better. The biggest annoyance is that is that I'm unable to play virtually any game out there because it has an ancient ATI Rage video card with only 8 MB of video RAM.

So in many ways, the 400 MHz PowerPC G4 chip in my PowerBook is obsolete, but it's been a great 4 years. And I would definitely consider buying another PowerBook G4, but I'm looking for certain features like 1920x1080 HD screen and/or 256 MB video card.

And remember this. Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) will be out at the end of 2006 or beginning of 2007, just in time to compete head-to-head with Longhorn. Your G5 will be able to run it, along with iLife 2007. My PowerBook G4 probaby won't be able to, yet no one fretted about G4 Macs going "obsolete" in 2007 when Apple introduced the G5 architecture two years ago.

If I was stuck using Windows and saw what OSX offers - I certainly wouldn't wait. And Winusers won't, They'll be buying in their droves throughout 2005. If the share price falls on the back of all this talk I will be BUYING.

I am guessing 90% of people thinking of buying a Mac will wait. Me, included. Yes, I would like to have a new one - but don´t really need one. (Who really needs a new computer - those that use it for business reasons, probably ...but is my 2 year old Mac that slow that I could not wait another year or two??? How much faster will Illustrator or Photoshop be - my guess, not much. In fact a friend showed me that Photoshop on Tiger is slower that Photoshop on Panther.)
So I will wait and watch the drama unfold.
Who knows what is really going to happen and when - Steve is always closed mouthed and secretive about it all, so we will just have to listen to the rumor mongers and speculators.
I plan to spend less time at MDN, too. There will be little new news here, just the same "should you buy a mac now?" and "what does it mean" regurgitated over and over...

Will MDN change its moniker to Mac & Intel Daily News now????

I can´t imagine we will see any "Switch" type ads from Apple in the next year or so.
The average PC guy is thinking, "Hey, Apple is switching to my Intel processor computer....
Guess Apple made the switch..."

MDN take - Trust Steve

Steve's very first Apple presentation was done on an Intel laptop.

Coincidence? I think not.

This has been in the works for 5 years. They won't get a penny from me until the switch is completely finished. I was an early adopter through the first 2 transitions, someone else can help pay for this one.

A good computer now is a good computer. And all Apple products are good computers.

Tomorrow's computers will be better, but today they are worthless because you can't use them.

Mac OSX will continue to be both PowerPC and Intel architecture native (as it essentially has been for 5 years), and programs made for it will continue to work on both architectures.

If you need a computer, buy a good one now. If you might someday need a computer, buy one then. It's inane to wait for the best one, because it will always be the one that isn't available yet. You only deprive yourself by waiting.

Besides, with Macs, they'll last as long as you want them to, and still have value for someone when it comes time for you to upgrade to the next level (when it comes out).

The Mac computer two years from now will be totally different than the Mac computer today.
I´m waiting.
Who knows? Between now and then maybe Steve will piss off Intel and announce he is switching to AMD chips.
----------
Grrrilla: "Besides, with Macs, they'll last as long as you want them to,.... "
All the more reason to wait and keep using the one I bought. Unless you want to buy me one...

What if Apple announced that, instead of using Intel, all Mac will be migrating to Power PC G6 by end of 2007!!!! Will people still be holding off buying what they need to use now and wait for IBM to put out the G6???? Absolute not!!! It will not make any difference. There are always people who find excuse to wait and there are always people who can't wait and wants to buy now!!! This kind of writing only reflects the trend of the standard of "journalism" of late: sinking further to the bottom. What is the qualification to be a writer now a day? High school dropouts?

The only thing that's stopping me buying a new Mac mini is that it's due for an upgrade this summer. I know that the mini is first on the list to be a Macintel, but I can't imagine that it won't be upgraded before 2006.

And do you know what? I bet 95% of potential Mac mini buyers have no clue that Apple is switching to Intel. That's why I believe the normal 6 - 7 months upgrade schedule will be maintained by Apple. If it's selling well now, the company will act as though everything is just the same right through to the switch.

I'll buy in 2005 because PPC is fine with me. First of all, I have no interest in being a first adopter (read the hundreds of posts about rev A of the iMac G5 - even rev Bs are having lots of problems); secondly I'm running Classic apps that meet my needs just fine. And whether they'll work on the new Intel based machines is uncertain right now.

Why would anyone wait for a machine that is in Alpha testing phase when you could buy a ass kickin G5 right now?
I know where my money is going, and if the new machines are that much better in 2007 in final roll out, I will buy one too.

An addedum to my previous post. Can anyone imagine no new hardware announcements from Apple for the next 6 months. So it's possible that the next mini upgrade could have the x86 inside, even before 2006.

I was gonna buy 257 new G5s.

Now I'm just gonna buy 257 XBoxes.

I hate roadmaps. Apple should use a GPS system. Far more accurate.

Damn, my PowerBook G4 1.67Ghz will no longer be cutting-edge at some point in 2006. I guess I might as well throw it in the garbage right now.

I was planning to buy a new powermac in later 2006 or 2007 anyway. So this works out for me. If, for some reason, my current powermac should have an unfortunate accident I wouldn't/couldn't wait. If for some reason by 2007 I need a powermac and can't wait anymore, and the new powermacs aren't out, I might buy a lower end macintel machine.

"I don't know what is going to happen as far as supporting my hardware configuration."
"I am worried about my Mac and now. So if you have any insight please let me know."
<<whatever>>

Watch Steve's speech,
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc05/
It should answer some questions and help put your mind at ease.

After watching the QuickTime video myself it seems Apple went out of their way to make it easy for developers to make universal binaries. (and for OSX to work seamlessly on both chips)
Developers have been begging Apple to bring them a bigger market share, and therefor more customers. Now, developers are getting their wish.

Too much waisted effort on the PowerPC/Intel battle.

Apple - Advertise OSX!

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the first MacIntels shipping in 12 weeks time. Remember, Steve said they would 'be ready by' next year's WWDC - which could mean any time between now and then. Of course, if Steve announced the first boxes with Intel would be out in 12 weeks time, Apple would have 3 months of TOTALLY DEAD sales - including the lucrative back-to-school period. By leading people to read '12 months' into his statement, Steve has suggested a suitably long-enough period for people to still consider a current purchase - as well as laying the ground work for a massive 'stop-the-press' announcement in, say, mid August. And we all know how expert Apple is at keeping a steady stream of good-news stories breaking to keep the company in the public eye.

Sales dop off potential is the same as when OS9 went to X. It's peoples' worry, not a failure in technology. After some time, things will likely smooth out just fine.

Hey wait a minute! Isn't this maybe a case of the glass being half full or half empty? A different article recently in MacMinute said:

"According to a recent survey conducted by MetaFacts, more than half of households with Apple computers are planning to buy one, or have previously owned one. "The Apple-faithful make up more than half of Apple's customers for the first time in more than a decade and up slightly from last year," said Dan Ness, Principal Analyst with MetaFacts. "This is good news for Apple. Even more good news is the percent of Apple households planning to buy another Apple home computer also increased.""

http://www.macminute.com/2005/06/07/metafacts/

You also have to wonder how large of a percentage of readers would have said that the PowerMac not reaching 3 GHz or the lack of a G5 Powerbook has had "a negative impact on your private or corporate purchasing decisions".

AND if you take the fact that Apple sales were growing at a rate of 26 percent or something like that, will this "50% negative impact" mean it will only grow at 13%? That is still over the average for the PC industry so Apple would STILL be gaining market share, just not as fast.

Apple made the right move.

Today I halted all Mac purchases, period.

I am not going to have new 2nd rate machines and 3rd rate hardware in 18 months.

Reality is settling in on Jobs decision. NO MORE PURCAHSES.

Twenty Benson - I think you could be right. As I said in a previous post, it's inconceivable that Apple won't make any new hardware announcements before Intel Macs are ready to ship. There were rumors about a Tablet, but under the present uncertain circumstances who really cares about that.

Something big must be coming down the pike- and the more I think about it, it will be the Mac mini that kicks off the switch.

Apple is Over.