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I really hope this goes through. I doesn't look like it's going to cost the taxpayers much money anyhow, and it helps the kids! Go for it Georgia! You won't regret it.

Hmmm... 90% of how many emails were opposed? 90% of 10 emails? ...or 100 emails?

Sounds like the Wintel droids were sending emails in opposition. How any parent or teaching professional could be opposed to this amazing deal would be beyond me.



MDN magic word is first. How appropriate.

$350 at iBook G4!!!! How can they say no???

1st post!!

BSOD--

You know, it could just be that they're opposed to the idea of laptops in the classroom in general. Many don't feel that the expense justifies the benefits. Of course, either way they're wrong.

MDN Magic Word - TRY... he TRIED to be first post but didn't try hard enough!

I hope it goes through too. Seems like Apple has begun to play Microsoft's game... take money earned on one product (iPod) and use that to subsidise entry into another area (this deal). How else could they offer such a cut rate? They just want to get in there so that they can use that to parlay to other school districts in the future.

If you're OK with it, you don't generally write an email saying so.
If you're opposed, you'd me more inclined to voice your opposition.

Thus, those statistics mean nothing.

alot can be done with $70 million. I'm sure those oppossed have reason to beleive that money would be better spent elsewhere. Or kept in the pockets of the taxpayers.

I like to see laptops in the hands of our youngsters. It levels the playing field and gives the poorest kids another chance at an education. A poorly managed program can be a terrible waste of time. I think schools are getting better at it though.

A school system near me (Ann Arbor) just bought a bunch of iBooks. I haven't seen their plans yet though. I just hope it's done right and the teachers are educated and that they don't become more of a distraction. Kids carry far too many books though and if a laptop can solve that problem I'm all for it.

Where is the electronic paper? Chips printed with injet printers you can fold? Where'd all these inventions go?

ok - you idiots need to stop with the first post crap. it never works.

magic word - zebra
as in racing stripes, the zebra wins the day. and no, i have no idea what the relevance is with the thread. my creativity is being zapped working on a Dell at the office. can't wait to get home to my G5 at home.

350 dollars is the annual leasing cost per computer, not the total cost per computer.

From another article I read I gather most of the opposition has to do with the fact that many don't feel that the program that the money is coming from was intended to buy laptops. I guess it was worded pretty vaguely though.

But boy! Talk about an agressive price from Apple!! How can they be making any money from this? They must be going for it as a marquee account and to "hook" new Apple users.

FIRST POST!!!

All right, I finally got the first post. Hallelujah!

Doesn't say anywhere in that article why 9 out of 10 disagree... they make it sound like it's because they are apple laptops, when the real issue is spending their extra money on any laptops period!

I live in GA, not far from Cobb actually. This story was on the radio this morning. The problem people were having is that some of these kids can't even read. Don't get me wrong here, I'm all for laptops getting into more hands, especially Macs, but the government here seems to think the way to solve the education problem is to throw more money at it. What good is a laptop going to do if the person using it can't read or write? A good point was brought up on the radio, too; what about giving the kids with the highest grades laptops? I'd much rather work with someone who is intelligent and can't work with a computer than an idiot who can. Technology is not the answer to solving underlying problems with schools, and this money could be better spend on other things.

I disagree Plush. Getting the computer might very well help them to learn to read and write. There is a lot of excellent educational software out there that these kids could benefit from. And if they're in a poor home without a computer at all, this will get their foot in the door. Not to mention they'll learn much needed computer skills that they'll need someday out in the real world. I've seen first hand how much a young child can learn in a very short period of time once they've received their first ever computer.

Maybe it's just me, but the impression I get is that the 90% of emails are opposed to the laptop program as a whole - not specifically the purchase of APPLE laptops. Since the technology program is funded by a special purpose local tax, I don't see any reason for such opposition.

Plush, I sorta guessed that.

I live in Los Angeles. If the Los Angeles City School District annouced that it was going to do something similar, I'd be against it. A) The schools are full of the children of illegal imigrants. The poor kids don't even speak English, let alone read and write it. The LA City School District is always touting how many different languages are spoken in schools as if it's something to be proud of.

B) Education is not about throwing money at the situation. That's always the solution here also. Let's spend a billion dollars more as if that's going to teach a kid to read, write, and run a business.

Ha, my magic word is "mind." A mind is a terrible thing to go to waste, but pouring money on it doesn't save it.

RE: Plush

A child can start to read and write by using a keyboard. Reconizing the letters and finding out how to make them into words. I have been to schools where first grade kids are making iPhoto slide shows that tell a story, then producing it into a DVD to give to their parents so they see what they have learned and what they are doing. Some of higher grades were doing spreadsheets to do calculations, iChat to colaborate on projects with students in another classroom. Laptops, any laptop, but especially Apples with its easy to use creative software, helps kids learn.

I know this because I was a part of a study at Penn State to see if kids could learn from playing online games, and there had already been a partial study done. That study wasn't looking for certain things, but it was easy to see that poor kids, when given a laptop learn quicker. Of course the person that was doing the study wasn't looking for this so had no concrete data to back it up but the person could see it. Thus why we were doing one to get statics that can prove it. I'm not sure how it went because I was an under grad in this graduate study program and I moved on after graduation, but I'm sure it went really well. Plus, there have been schools already using laptops that have shown that grades have improved after adding laptops into the classes.

Most people are probably having problems with how the money is being spent. Like the time where a school was going to get laptops, but everyone protested saying they didn't want their taxes to be spent on their kids education. Thus, it fell through because they removed the board members with people who would vote the laptop deal down. Just so the parents could save a few dollars.

All I can say is F our kids now and you put them behind for life. Computer are apart of life wiether you like it or not, the sooner they learn, the better off they are later.

JB, we're not talking about little kids here. These are high school kids who can't read. They aren't going to use educational software. I'd much rather see this money going to start programs to teach things like financial planning. As for helping poor kids get their foot in the door, I do agree. I think they should have to prove they would take advantage of laptops by getting good grades to begin with. That would cut down the amount of money needed for laptops and open up money for things a lot more useful than computer skills. Can you imagine how much better off we would be if people, right out of high school, knew how to do things like paying their own taxes? Just basic skills needed for the real world.

So the fact that they can't read, means they shouldn't have the same opertunities as everyone else. Maybe it never passed your mind that someone that can't read at their age, can still learn. There are adults that are still learning to read, and the younger you start them on the path to learning, the better. So give the kids a laptop, some software, a teacher who encourages the kid to use it, and you have everything you need to give that kid a brighter future.

Brando:A child can start to read and write by using a keyboard

eh? how do you learn to write using a keyboard? I thought that is what pens and pencils and paper were for. Personally I am not against kids using laptops of any sort although using Apple is a bonus (for Apple). I am from the old school ( I started school in 1975 just before the original Star Wars movie came out) and I learned to write by using a pencil or pen and paper, and as far as I know that is still the ONLY way to learn how to write. In terms of learning how to do lots of other stuff on a computer, an iBook is great although great artists still use pencils and paper for drawing and sketching.

Aaaah, but what about the sports programs that need new uniforms? Surely that is much more important than learning how to read and right. "Johnny is dumb as a box of rocks, but boy can he carry a football!"

Sadly, this is the case at a lot of schools. Athletics, although important on some aspects, have slowly started to take precedence over the more important basic life-skills and core eduacation. For example, in many schools more money is dumped into sports programs than the arts and other creative-type classes. Many schools have lost that "balance" between core education, sports, and other extra-curricular activities and the arts. Face it, without the arts, we wouldn't have music to listen to or movies to watch. Creativity needs to be nurtured as well.

If laptops in the hands of these kids can help achieve that balance, then they would be foolish not to do it.

Or you give them better teachers and a program for the younger children to teach them to read when they first start off in school and they are much better off. I do think they should have an opportunity to get ahold of these laptops. I also think they should prove they want to learn before they get all this money thrown at them. I see people every day at jobs working cash registers who can't do basic math. I'm not talking calculus here, I'm talking adding and subtracting.

Computer skills are very important. But when you have a 17 year old kid who can't read, doesn't want to learn to, and doesn't think he needs to, a computer isn't going to help. If you don't understand the concept of subtraction, a calculator isn't going to help. But a 2nd grade teacher who gets through to kids and shows them why learning is important will help. And showing high school students who had that teacher in 2nd grade how to manage a bank account will help.

I can't stress this enough, I'm all for equal opportunity, no matter how much money your family has. And if you make these kids get good grades before giving them technology, you are giving them all the same opportunity. You are just making sure they will use it.

See, I can "right" well. I meant write! woops!

In this era of conservatism, people will oppose anything the gov't wants to do. Here in Virginia, people are always opposing everything yet when a candidate for Governor several years ago proposed abolishing our car tax, he was voted in with flying colors. The only problem was, that the car tax (property taxes charged by cities and counties, not the state), was not abolished. The state just paid your car tax for you. The cities still received the taxes. And now, the state spends more on paying everybody's car tax than they do on schools. But hey, we're conservatives. We believe in smaller gov't. Yeah right.

Yes, because a keyboard has letters. When a child is told to find a letter on the keyboard, that child can associate what he/she is told to a letter by finding it on the keyboard. Hell, its just like the teacher writing it on the board and saying this is an "A" but the kid is doing the writing by finding the key and hitting it. Once the kid knows what and A looks like since the associationg witht he letter has been made, then they can find it on the keyboard, thus showing they remember what and A looks like. Moving along, that A can then be put together with more letters he learns into the word "Apple" (no pun). Thus, a kid knows how to make words. They can also then learn how to write too with pen and paper, but they can start the association quicker on a keyboard. Learning how to physically write is still going to be pen and paper and will still need to be taught, but how many reports do kids now a days submit that were written by pen and paper. My mom, and English teacher doesn't take hand written anymore (9 to 12 grade). She even asks for an electronic document so she can use http://www.turnitin.com to see if the kids copied anything from some where else. She has even moved to having the kids submit to turnitin.com before they submit to her so they can make sure they are in the clear. Technology is moving forward people, probably at one point typewritters were said to not be needed in schools. Now most schools have some sort of typing class that is manditory (my school did). Don't be left behind because you think the world is still flat.

As much as I like technology (I've worked for various router manufacturers over the years), I find issue with school systems pumping in big money for ephemeral technology.

There is a place for it (language labs, etc.), but handing one to every student does not gaurentee a better education. Frankly, I'd like to see the money go towards better teachers and respectable teachers salaries. What good is a laptop if you are still drilling the same memorized crap instead of teaching the material?

I think the money is better spent on better teachers, not in a network that'll be obsolete in a couple of years (that nobody really understands how to maintain), or laptops that will get wrecked in school year or two.

There will be some retarded decision to save money that ends up hamstringing the whole project, too. For example, the HS that I attended spent a few hundred thousand to renovate the auditorium. It looks wonderful! But even though the music teacher who pleaded for a couple of thousand to be spent to run conduit from the lighting points and stage wings up to the control room to future-proof whatever type of cabling or technology might be used for future projects was denied. Now they have an expensive renovation that is no better in operation than the 40's technology they left behind. And the School Committe wonders why they spent so much on useless room?...

Look, our parents got good educations with far less. There isn't much that is taught in schools today that is new (other than histor that changes). Other nations kick our collective butts on aptitude tests (for example, Ireland) and they don't have laptops and wireless networks in schools.

I've seen that basic lack of understanding you mentioned as well, Plush. I remember seeing a girl, probably in her mid-teens, at a clothing store with her mother. She was asking her mother how to figure out how much a shirt was going to be that she saw was on sale. The shirt was originally $19.99 and was 30% off. She was stumped. The kicker is that she had a calculator in her hand and STILL couldn't figure it out. Yikes!

I do agree that the foundation needs to be started early on, and hiring highly competent teachers to build that foundation is key, and paying them well for it is a must.

But from my previous post, I still believe that the laptops can also have a profound influence on how the kids learn and can lead to a more balanced education. Technology can sometimes be the catalyst that sparks a childs interest. It is by no means a fix-all, but a viable means to an end just the same. Some kids simply need a kick to get them interested in learning. A laptop just may be that kick.

From the article it does seem as though those opposed are opposed to the program, not to the fact that they want to buy iBooks, and I'm glad to hear that. They apparently want a study done to see whether it will work. There have been several similar programs started at various school systems around the country over the past few years and from what I've read, they've all been very successful in that test scores have gone up, etc. The idea being that the kids are intrigued by using the computers, so they take a more active roll. It's too bad that's necessary. Maybe if more parents would read to their kids at an early age they wouldn't need computers to capture their attention, but that being said, i can definitely see how this could save schools money in some ways - after all, books can be very expensive too.

I think that the issue is giving laptops to every student, not whether its Mac or PC, hence why it's "controversial."

Ok, I don't know why we got on the subject of all the kids in these high schools don't know how to read and write, so who ever brought that up as an argument to not giving them laptops, where did this come from? Where are your statistics for this? What makes you believe that all of them can't read? And if these kids can't read in the first place, where the hell are the parents to complain that their kids can't and why havn't the teachers all been fired yet?

90 percent of the negative emails were people opposed to using computers at all.

Peoplee with brains aren't bozos and know computers are good for kids, if they're used correctly.

How can they get parents to buy into laptops in the schools, when Cobb County is too busy worrying about disclaimers on science books dealing with "evilution" err Evolution?

For the sake of the children, I hope they do get laptops in their hands. When I was in school, subjects that involved using computers for learning helped me far more than just textbooks and droning teachers.

Er.. Georgia's finally getting Books..

Won't they be disappointed when they turn out to be computers...

No seriously.. The iBooks will a joy to use, and no bizzare Windows prompts, asking you to touch your nose and recite the alphabet backwards before your reset the computer...

Brando, I brought the reading thing up. It came from hearing complaints like that on the radio this morning over this subject. No, I don't have statistics on any of this, but I went to school two counties over. It's less than a half hours drive from where I live, these are the kids I grew up with. As for the parents, they are complaining, but they aren't doing much to fix the situation, other than throw money at it, without even managing where the money goes (Cobb isn't exactly a poor county). As for the teachers being fired, it is happening. And it's causing a giant teacher shortage, too. Many counties in the state are making teachers reapply for their jobs, and many of them aren't motivated and/or can't do what they could when they were first hired. It's pathetic. Which is why I think laptops are the least of the problems, and I can see exactly where these complaints are coming from: their is, as always, a limited amount of money, and it's not going to what it needs to go to. Laptops are what I would call a second tier item. Teachers and teaching the fundamentals need to come first. On a personal note, I think parents should be able to choose where their kids go to school, basing their decision on the teachers and environment than what school district they live in.

"The problem people were having is that some of these kids can't even read. "

So there are many who can read. So should they lose the oppotunity because some kids cannot read.

Also, if the textbooks are in electronic form (Adobe Acrobat?), may be they can use their computers (text-to-speech) to read their textbook. This will help them keep up with their class and possibly help them learn to read.

We saw essentially the same kind of resistance in Humboldt County and Mainse with the 1-to-1 computer initiative. But guess what? Experience after experience showed that students actually became much more engaged in learning, attendance and test score both went up. DON'T IGNORE THE REAL RESULTS.

A lot of people seem ideologically opposed to technology in the classroom. "Kids can't even read!" or "They're just little theives who'll end up breaking expensive equipment - money down the drain!"

Sure, a lot of school administrators use technology as an excuse not to do their jobs. That's what you get when you get Dell dumping a bunch of cheapo computers that sit around unused, that effectively can't be used because of all the anti-virus, spam-filtering, and anti-spyware software you need to install.

But Apple provides in-depth training and consulting for the teachers involved. They did so with the teachers at Humboldt and Maine, and other smaller 1-to-1 initiatives. So the teachers knew how best to INTEGRATE the computers into their lesson plans.

I have no doubt the Georgia experience will be the same. To those who say this is a waste of money, all I have to say is, "Wake up!" This is the 21st century. American kids in general have deep educational problems, especially with basic reading and math. But what are you going to do about it?

More hours forcing them to memorizing passages from boring textbooks or figuring math problems by rote isn't going to improve the situation. The solution is to get kids excited about learning in general, for the long-term, and Apple has proven that it has the committment to make sure technology is used to the fullest potentital. Just look at what kids are doing in Humboldt and Maine, and tell me the computer funds there have gone to waste.

90% of the people who SUPPORTED the effort already knew about it long ago and weren't typing fresh emails. That would probably be the 90% who care to do something about the future of their community. I hope the board takes that [stand].

Do you know that if you bought a 12-in iBook using Apple Credit, you'd only pay $24 a month ($288/year)? If you buy for education pursoses, the price goes down further.

I was able to go through high school without a laptop and turned out just fine. The computer labs at school were a joke and I don't recall any good use for them. I don't object to the purchase of the laptops, but I would like to know their plans to use them. As with all technologies, you need to have a good understanding of why you need them and how you will use them. The $70 million for technology is only worth it if it provides an educational boost. I would love too see a study of the use of technology to improve education. All I can imagine is that the laptops are so that the kids can take it home to write their papers and do their research for projects. This helps in communities where the average family does not own a computer. (Yes, some people still can't afford computers or just don't know how to use them!)

Hey, my magic word is "student". I think MDN uses words from the article to make the magic word...

Georgia?
Don't they grow peaches there?

"So there are many who can read. So should they lose the oppotunity because some kids cannot read."

Once again, no! Students who will use technology should not be held back by those who won't. But at a high school level, they should have to learn to read before they get bonuses like laptops. If we were talking about elementary schools, this would be a different argument.

Taxpayers dont want to spend 70 million dollars on machines that cant print as well as their old selectrics and that dont have displays as nice their old RCA tube TV's. The best prints available from AppleWorks look as if they are on the other side of some one elses glasses. This isnt an Apple vs P C thing ==this is the consumer and the taxpayer recognizing that the best thing about these machines is sex sites on the internet and they dont want their money spent on half baked teaching machines. How about spending 70 million on books and art supplies???

I know they don't like the mention of Darwin in Georgia, but when it comes to these non-readers that everyone is so concerned about, doesn't survival of the fittest have to come into play?

If they can't read and their parents can't get them there, then shouldn't they just be left behind? It may sound harsh, but that's just life.

Welcome to the fold, lisa. Not enough trolling for you on the other threads?

Based on the lack of common sense apparent in your posts, this non-reading Georgia thing must be right up your alley. Heck, you probably just got off the short bus.

BSOD - that isn't exactly fair to Lisa. Lighten up a bit


Real quick - anyone that would read that article and NOT be able to understand that the 90% were opposed to the PROGRAM (has nothing to do with the TYPE of computer) needs to take a remedial course in COMPREHENSION!!!

MDN - crappy way to exploit that article with the title you gave it. Bad boy(s)!!

"I know they don't like the mention of Darwin in Georgia, but when it comes to these non-readers that everyone is so concerned about, doesn't survival of the fittest have to come into play?

If they can't read and their parents can't get them there, then shouldn't they just be left behind? It may sound harsh, but that's just life."

The Darwin thing was a bit harsh, that's just the Christian extremists. But you make a very good point. That's the reason I suggest only giving laptops to students who will take advantage of the opportunity, not just giving them away to anyone who lines up.

I guess all the parants who are voting no are upset because they think they will have to take care of the virus and exploits.

It's a good way to show them otherwise.

You socialists sure are free with other people's money.

Georgia?

Okay, to all you people who keep posting with "Magic Word Is..." and "First Post," enough already!!!

"Magic Word Is..." was clever and cute for the first couple of days it was used, but now, it's way too tired! Give it up already. It's getting "retarded."

"First Post" is even worse!

Eric24601 -

You're sentenced to go live in Georgia so you can develop a sense of humor about life.

having a sense of humor doesnt mean you have to tolerate listening to the same joke over and over for weeks on end.