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Microsoft’s Longhorn fantasy vs. Apple’s Mac OS X reality
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 10:02 AM EDT

"After months of speculation, Microsoft has released XP Service Pack 2 in order to fix problems in its operating system. Amid reports of problems and some successes, I recommend prudent users continue to wait before deploying this service pack. It has security holes and its own set of problems. Meanwhile, the company is pulling features from its next operating system, code-named Longhorn, in an effort to get it on the street by 2006," Charlie Paschal reports for The State.

The Register has reported, "Two mainstays of Windows Longhorn will be 'decoupled' from the 2006 release, with Microsoft dropping the WinFS storage and query system. Originally intended to be a full-blown replacement for the NTFS file system that put a database at the heart of Windows, WinFS will now be available as an add-on no sooner than 2007 for Longhorn, XP and Windows 2003. Or to be more precise - and here is another new piece of jargon for Redmond watchers - WinFS will be released as an 'out-of-band add-on pack.' Got that?"

"A cut-down version of Avalon, minus the compositor and the new device driver model will be backported to Windows XP too. Microsoft had already pledged to backport the next generation of middleware APIs, code named Indigo, to XP. All of which has left developers questioning the necessity of a 'big bang.' 'If WinFX (including Avalon and Indigo) are going to be available for WinXP and Win2003.  What is going to be the point of Longhorn?' wrote one developer on Microsoft's bulletin boards," The Register reported.

This is confusing to MacDailyNews, since we remember reporting in June 2003 that Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer had written in an email to Microsoft employees, "Some way off in the future lies a generation of technology that Microsoft promises will change the lives of every computer user. Codenamed Longhorn, it involves a complete revamp of the company's two core product lines - the Windows operating system and Office productivity suite. It promises to bring greater ease, reliability and security. In short, it will be 'the next quantum leap in computing, which will put us years ahead of any other product on the market.'"

Tech writer Paul Thurrott tried to spin this mess when he wrote, "For a broad range of power users and technology enthusiasts, Microsoft's Longhorn promises have been severely diminished, even if it happened for good reasons. But I think it's important to keep one thing in perspective: Longhorn will still be a major Windows release, on both the client and the server, and with recent improvements to Mac OS X and Linux doing little to nip away at XP's technological and usability leads, Longhorn will likely still stand at the apex of personal computing when its ships. Put succinctly, though the kitchen sink approach is gone, Longhorn remains the OS technology to watch."

John C. Dvorak is calling for Tinhorn, errr, Longhorn to be renamed, suggesting "how about XP 3? XP, XP SP1, XP SP2, XP 2 (there will be one! Now for sure.) Hence, Longhorn is XP 3. It's 'polite,' but yet jabbing, rather than a grand revolution, it is just a creep-up...'"

MacDailyNews Take: So which is it, folks? Is this gutted 'Longhorn' "the next quantum leap in computing that will change the lives of every computer user and likely still stand at the apex of personal computing when its ships" or is it more as BusinessWeek's Jay Greene describes below?

The Longhorn mess points to a recurring problem at Microsoft: Hype often gets way ahead of the company's computer science. "The priority is more on marketing than development," says Alan Paller, research director at the SANS Institute, a computer security training organization. That doesn't bode well for a company that hopes to lead the computer industry in the 21st century.

With Longhorn, as with other past products, Microsoft talked up a technology it couldn't quite deliver. It set out to overhaul a central piece of desktop computing -- the way users search and store information. But it proved too difficult a challenge -- especially at a time when it is under tremendous pressure to make its current version of Windows safe from a plague of viruses, worms, spam, and pop-up ads.

Some in the industry believe that Microsoft could learn from one of its rivals -- Apple Computer Co. The Mac maker does a great job of keeping both its new hardware and software under wraps, then thrilling its fans with whizzy breakthroughs -- something it did once again in late August with the unveiling of its gorgeous new iMac computer. In contrast, when Microsoft doesn't deliver on its promises, it loses credibility with PC makers, software publishers, and customers.

Last spring, as the first signs of Longhorn delays emerged, techies began referring to the operating system as Longwait. Now, with WinFS cut, critics have renamed the software Shorthorn. The name-calling poses no threat to Microsoft's hegemony. But its stumble with Longhorn gives rivals an opening at a time when Microsoft needs to get its business revving again.


Full article here.

MacDailyNews Take: Mac users, of course, will have cutting-edge search technology with the upcoming Mac OS X 10.4 'Tiger' which actually will ship in the first half of 2005 with Spotlight, a radically new and lightning fast way to find anything saved on your personal computer. Email messages, contacts and calendars, along with files and folders, will all show up in Spotlight results. Find out more about Mac OS X Tiger's Spotlight here. If you really want to stand at the apex of personal computing, you need to use a Mac, of course. Right now that apex is known as Mac OS X Panther featuring Quartz Extreme and everything! Available, and in use on millions of personal computers, today. Imagine that.

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Sep 14, 04 - 12:11 pm Comment from: Sum Yung Gai

Ah, if only Shorthorn would run natively on a Mac. Then I could join in the heroic fight against viruses, adware, malware, and all of that.

Sep 14, 04 - 12:13 pm Comment from: mike

again..whenever longhorn ships..at best it will be equivalent to jaguar

except for one thing...

when they first started talking about LH.. they were talking about building a new OS from the ground up.. not based on MS DOS or based on Win2000 or any of this stuff...

but... now they're talking about LH being an XP upgrade in stages...

so they're using XP as the base code...

what a freakin' waste of a good/logical idea..

Sep 14, 04 - 12:17 pm Comment from: Perfusionista

first po... oh, never mind

Despite the fact that, once again, a respected publication slams M$ for tardiness, incompetence, megalomania, whatever, when the horribly inefficient product finally ships the press will go ape-shit over it, praising it to the heavens and imploring everyone to buy it.

Sep 14, 04 - 12:21 pm Comment from: Judge Bork

Longhorn with an intact Avalon, at best could've hoped to be compared to Mac OS X 10.0. Windows XP is still worse than Mac OS 9, for Steve's sake!

People who think Shorthorn (even in its pre-gutted vapor form) will compare to Mac OS X 10.3 'Panther' give Microsoft far too much credit and have never used Mac OS X.

Sep 14, 04 - 12:21 pm Comment from: digital boy

It continues to amaze me that anyone uses a PC running Windows. Absolutely mind-boggling.

Sep 14, 04 - 12:42 pm Comment from: mac dood

Just think.....

theres an off chance, that if / when this bloated cow finally DOES ship...that LongHorn MIGHT be as stable as..... say ...
Mac OS 7.6 !!...

Hey, it COULD happen !!

Let's all give Billy Gates some benefit of a doubt !!

Sep 14, 04 - 12:47 pm Comment from: mac dood

.... and to quote the Great American Philosapher...
"Bevis"...

"....yeah...and monkees might fly outta my butt, too !.."

Sep 14, 04 - 01:00 pm Comment from: Aryugaetu

"Some in the industry believe that Microsoft could learn from one of its rivals -- Apple Computer Co. The Mac maker does a great job of keeping both its new hardware and software under wraps, then thrilling its fans with whizzy breakthroughs -- something it did once again in late August with the unveiling of its gorgeous new iMac computer. In contrast, when Microsoft doesn't deliver on its promises, it loses credibility with PC makers, software publishers, and customers."

In some ways this seems true, but I tried to find "Longhorn" at Microsoft.com but all I could find was some hyped up press release. At Apple, I easily found Tiger by clicking on the large "Mac OS X" tab and then the very noticeable "SNEAK PREVIEW Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger" icon at the top.

Microsoft seems to make hyped up promises then runs and hides. You have to dig and dig just to find any facts. But don't depend on those facts because they seem to change daily, and never for the better.

Apple promises. Apple delivers.
The introduction of Apple's "Spotlight" and the demise of Microsoft's "WinFS" could not have been timed any better.

And in terms of technology, where is Microsoft's equivalent to this...
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html ...or this...
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/automator.html ...?

How can any software developer create ANY software for such vaporous OS such as Longhorn? Are these developers forced to sit on their hands and wait? My advice is to develop software for the Mac platform. You will have a loyal user base and access to the latest innovations in hardware and operating systems.

The only innovation Microsoft seems to have created is a new word, "neo-obsolescence"; becoming archaic before it is created.

Sep 14, 04 - 01:06 pm Comment from: AL

What is everybody talking about???

Longhorn is comming...

I am using an alpha of Longhorn every day on my computer.

It is called Panther (OS X 10.3).

smile

Sep 14, 04 - 01:13 pm Comment from: Jump

From Thurrot's article referenced above:
"Microsoft works better when it tackles projects in small steps...development time and complexity is just too much to ask of customers. In the future, Microsoft will need to work off of a stable base, adding features on a yearly basis."

Hmmmm, I seem to remember PC people crowing about how Apple releases these "minor" (even though they are not) updates on a yearly basis that we Mac fans are crazy to continually pay for. No matter how much these analysts try to put down Apple, the more they talk about how Microsoft "should" be, the more they describe how Apple is. They just don't seem to be smart enough to recognize it.

Morons.

Sep 14, 04 - 01:16 pm Comment from: ndelc

If I were Bill Gates and I had the 6 BILLION dollar R&D;budget that MS has at their disposal, I'd have a team of programmers tucked away secretly building a brand new OS from scratch that would be completely compatible with current Windows flavors but had none of the security/stability problems. Come on, with $6 billion, anything should be possible.

I'm sure that Apple has ideas that they'd like to incorporate into their upcoming OS that don't pan out for technological reasons, but they aren't seen as vaporware because they didn't announce them. When they tell us about the next version of the OS, they know they can deliver what they promise. MS has no excuse. With their gargantuan budget they should be leading the industry with innovation. Not playing the "me too" game with a company that has a fraction of their resources.

Sep 14, 04 - 01:43 pm Comment from: JV

I cannot stand you lemmings. As a Mac user myself, it's clear that none of you have ever used Longhorn, so how in the hell can you tell us what it will be when it actually ships? Have you used it? Do you know real facts instead of pure conjecture? Can you be objective at all instead of just handjobbing a circle of Apple fans?

The bullshit comments about this news exemplifies exactly what I hate about being a Mac user. The whole pissy "us against the world" attitude -- ESPECIALLY while ignorning the facts.

When Longhorn ships, it will be a good OS. It will have thousands upon thousands of applications written for it. It will have massive developer backing. It will be the top-tier OS choice for anyone purchasing a new PC.

Oh, and about the ignorant "Apple promises and Apple delivers!" comment posted somewhere above this. Does Apple really promise and deliver? Then where is my 3 GHz G5? Anyone? Bueller? Hello?

Sep 14, 04 - 01:56 pm Comment from: Jump

JV, Go to a PC board and post that you're a Mac user. After they get done with you, you'll come running back to this board with your tail between your legs and pissed off that they dare diss your Mac when they've never even used one. You see, that is one big difference I find between Mac users and PC users is that most Mac users have fairly extensive experience on Windows. Based on the prevalance of the platform, there is really no way not to. You'll have to excuse us if we gloat because we truly know the difference.

Sep 14, 04 - 01:56 pm Comment from: balmer

we are just waiting for Apple to release Tiger, so we can reverse engineer it, and add what we steal to Longhorn. Apple not releasing Tiger on time really put a crimp into our longhorn development. Its all Apple's fault.

Sep 14, 04 - 01:59 pm Comment from: tom

"It continues to amaze me that anyone uses a PC running Windows. Absolutely mind-boggling."

I feel the same as 'digital boy'.

I would like to see more suggestions for new names for "longhorn". That'd be fun! I like "bull horn"!

Sep 14, 04 - 02:15 pm Comment from: ndelc

JV, that's the point, NO ONE has used Logjam because MS cannot deliver what they promised. It's progressively becoming less and less of an update. All of the features that were supposed to make it so revolutionary are being hacked off one by one in typical MS fashion. When (if) it does see the light of day, it won't be much different from XP. All the while Apple will have released Tiger and perhaps even the next cat.

Sep 14, 04 - 02:21 pm Comment from: egarc

While MS is stripping Shorthorn, Apple is adding features to Tiger.

Here is the scoop on the latest build: http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=650

Sep 14, 04 - 02:22 pm Comment from: PS

"When Longhorn ships, it will be a good OS. It will have thousands upon thousands of applications written for it. It will have massive developer backing. It will be the top-tier OS choice for anyone purchasing a new PC."

Is that a fact, JV? Do you know the facts instead of pure conjecture? Have you used it? It's a fact that winFS was to be a part of Longhorn. That's a fact.

Top-tier choice for PC's? How many "tiers" are their in the PC OS world?

Sep 14, 04 - 02:25 pm Comment from: Smithy

JV,

"As a Mac user myself, it's clear that none of you have ever used Longhorn, so how in the hell can you tell us what it will be when it actually ships? Have you used it?"

What a STUPID comment, you really are showing your age (about 8 years old). No one has used it, it doesn't exist. It's vapourware.

There may be alpha builds, but judging by what that piece of shit company Microshaft say it will look nothing like the final product when/if it ships.

So get over yourself JV, and fsck off back under the rock you came from.

Sep 14, 04 - 02:58 pm Comment from: Glick7

Excuse me, but I'm a Mac user, so I'm unfamiliar with some common computer terms... I guess I'll never be a "Pro" computer user like some of my friends that use Windows...

So... here is my question... What is a computer virus?

Thanks... I appreciate it when Windows users help me out in areas where my knowledge is limited.

Sep 14, 04 - 03:23 pm Comment from: Aryugaetu

JV, I am the one that wrote "Apple promises. Apple delivers." above.

I will grant you that the 3Ghz G5 is missing due to process problems at IBM (has nothing to do with Apple).

BUT...

1. You completely failed to address (or ignored) all of my other concerns and questions in that same posting.

AND...

2. I think Apple's production of a $1299, 64-bit, home computer w/ 17" LCD monitor that Microsoft and Intel/Dell/Hp still consider a "Workstation/Server" class system is very impressive. When you can go to Dell and get an all-in-one, 64-bit computer w/17" monitor running on an OS that utilizes its 64-bit power using existing applications and has just HALF the innovations on Tiger, and make it Mom & Pop friendly, with NO virus threats, all for under $1300 ...THEN come back and talk to me about Apple's lack of G5 innovation!

Sep 14, 04 - 03:30 pm Comment from: VirusWriter

Glick7: you use a Mac right? and OS X even, right?

Than I am sorry there is little chance you'll ever know what a virus is. You see, it could be written but it would not easily spread.

We need Windows. Only there one can witness 100k infected in days. On OS X it is not worth. At most we could get few thousands. It is the same as for Unix. The last BIG infection hit 6k computer.
Does not make the news, brings no fame, totally useless to spend time on it.

Thanks Bill Gates, with your OS we could have fame and make big time news.

Sep 14, 04 - 03:33 pm Comment from: Bloodomen

I love all of you mac widgets talking crap.
No matter how much you love your Mac I can still hear the fear and of course jealousy in your writing. Call it Longhorn, Foghorn or F***horn if you want.

Just be sure to call it #1 when it arrives.

Macs Suck, PC's Rule!

Sep 14, 04 - 03:34 pm Comment from: BM

Sorry, but I must agree with JV.

You guys are all so Mac-oriented, that you can't see straight. The distortion field is pulling you all in.

Sure, Mac's are better (no denying it), but JV said Longhorn will be "the top-tier OS choice for anyone purchasing a new PC" - and he's right. Linux or BSD are hardly going to be the top tier choice in the next two years due to complexity, and unless OS X makes a jump to x86, I don't see any falsehoods in his statement. XP is probably the best PC OS available, even with a flawed security system. Microsoft has all but killed BeOS and Apple killed the NeXT OS on x86 and Linux/BSD aren't idiot proof enough.

The thousands of apps JV talks about are probably existing ones, or new ones in the wings (although thousands of new apps could be stretching it, esp, if the direction keeps changing.)

Microsoft have a history of whiz bang announcments and delays - I seem to remember even Windows 95 being really late. They named it and had to get it out the door that year... it shipped in August, which was pretty good I thought. Better than December I guess.

And whilst OS X is great now [I'm getting into my fire retardent suit], as a Mac lover since 1990, I have to admit that the core of previous versions of Mac OS (9 and before) were seriously flawed. I honestly believe 95 was more advanced in many ways and NT at the core (excluding security) was a much more serious OS, much more so than the Mac OS <= 9 ever were.

I'm talking about running multiple apps all at once, without one of them crashing and taking the whole computer with it. Even John Carmack (Id Software) said something that the Zen of developing for a Mac is "be at peace while rebooting" (caveat: the following link does suggest Carmack wasn't using proper tools at the time, but to me, it still suggests Mac OS 8/9 was a somewhat flawed system to begin with, by missing proper memory protection etc.)
http://www.mackido.com/Press/Carmack.html

Don't get me wrong, MS stuff still sucks (too many clicks for instance wink but OS 9 and before were lame under the hood, even if they were easy to use.

Hey, if they were so darned great, why did Apple spend $$$$ on developing a new OS in the early '90s? They knew too guys, otherwise we'd still be using a core from 1984.

And Apple do have a history, besides missing 3Ghz G5's... what about Copeland? That NEVER shipped. NeXT came to the rescue.

Short memories we all have don't we.

Sep 14, 04 - 03:45 pm Comment from: Smithy

BM,

Thanks for the history lesson.

OS 9 did suck. That's why they have developed OS X. It rules, it's solid, it has no viruses.

Once again, thanks for the history lesson, but this is 2004 and OS 9 is dead and buried.

Sep 14, 04 - 04:11 pm Comment from: BM

Thanks smithy - OS 9 is indeed dead and buried for most Mac users.

To be honest, I welcome Microsoft's Longhorn, as I want to see how great or otherwise it really will be (aside from the hype I mean).

I haven't used XP to the same extent as NT, 95 or 2000, but I do know it isn't as easy to use as it was hyped to be (or could have been). But it is clearly MS's best effort thus far.

OS X by comparison is elegant and possibly bordering on a work of art as the interface is exceedingly well designed.

Stuff works because there is a lack of choice - setting up wireless is a relatively painless experience, but trying to get it setup on a PC is a nightmare (well, at least the one PC I've dealt with - it took us two late evenings and a support call to get my wife's work laptop to stay online to our new D-624 router. Much too much time. My TiPB was online and working after 30 seconds.)

Microsoft & 3rd party software suffers from a couple of interesting "points":
- too much choice, esp. control panels, leading to unnecessary complexity (largly unnecessary I say)
- too many clicks on menus in many apps cf iMovie with MovieMaker - again, making it harder to use than it needs to be
- continually changing (maybe evolution?) where apps are stored in the "Start" menu and in particular MS continually change the control panels. Sure, I don't disagree with the enhancements, but if they made it fairly logical in the first place, they wouldn't need to change things around so much.

I'm cynical enough to think MS do this to justify new MCSE courses, since that must be a nice little revenue stream for them as well.

So, will Longhorn be any easier to use or setup? Probably better than XP, but not a patch on OS X.

Bring it on Microsoft.

Sep 14, 04 - 04:12 pm Comment from: ndelc

BM, while you are right about 9 and previous versions, I fail to see what that has to do with this discussion. The bottom line is, MS touted all these revolutionary improvements that would be included in Longhorn, and one by one they've been lopped off. That's not opinion or conjecture, it's fact. And it really has nothing to do with how good now-obsolete versions of the Mac OS were.

Sep 14, 04 - 04:12 pm Comment from: solrac

What's all this trash about comparing Longwait (haha, that's the funniest one, Longwait....) -- to Mac OS X Tiger? Or even Panther?

You cannot compare pre-release software to existing software.

Longwait must be compared to Mac OS X 10.5 or beyond, but that's impossible because apple releases no information about that.

Only XP can be compared to Panther and Tiger. (Yes, Tiger is virtually ready to go, all the features in Tiger are almost finished.)

So this whole discussion forum is flawed.

Compare XP to OS X.

Compare Longhorn to nothing.

Sep 14, 04 - 04:14 pm Comment from: Smithy

Isn't it funny how this is an article about the future of OS development, and we have been comparing OS 9 to XP.

Coincidence? Hardly.

Sep 14, 04 - 04:18 pm Comment from: NoNO

OS 9 Sucks Balls, Big SHLonghorn Balls.

Sep 14, 04 - 04:41 pm Comment from: SnagglePuss

You people think that Microsoft products are crappy, but 600 million users worldwide seem to think they are great, and cheap compared to OS X, which only focuses on aesthetics rather than solving real world problems and scenarios. I don’t think the Dock is either evolutionary or revolutionary, it’s just desperate and that’s the entire theme of Mac OS X since March 2001. Not everyone has the money to buy an average computer from Apple, (PowerMac G5), or an over priced desk lamp (I-Mac). Users want sophisticated software on reasonable but very powerful machines and Longhorn solves that issue. It bridges the gap and blurs the line between who can afford the best and who can only settle for average, those are the things you need to realize. Current Windows users must understand that continuing to be a Windows user will reward them with great new experiences before and after Longhorn is released, I mentioned them throughout this comment. Longhorn will be exploiting the advances in hardware; areas such as GPU will be utilized more efficiently and become more useful to the user rather than just for games. Presenting information in a new visual style that’s intelligent and logical, giving users a breath of fresh air when it comes to visualizing, manipulating and controlling data.

Sep 14, 04 - 04:42 pm Comment from: SnagglePuss

The same applies to all Linux distributions. Linux is not built on fundamentals; it is built upon anger, desperation, immaturity, hype and misunderstandings. Linux is an operating that will continue to grow at a significantly slow pace mainly because it is not focused like Windows. Linux cannot be embraced by the Industry; it has no common ground, architecture or authority. Linux is about confusing users rather than guiding them. PC Manufacturers need to understand clearly that Linux is about suppressing the Industry rather than adding value. PC Manufacturers need to think about the strategy behind Linux, which is mainly to devalue the price of software and computers. I am 100% sure that no major PC Manufacturer wants to be selling computers for $200, it will bring the entire Industry down while limiting the possibilities and potential that can be realized with Windows on the PC. If the Industry were to migrate to Linux, it would take at least 20 years to recover and gain new ground. Linux has been around for the past 13 years but still can’t develop a stable driver model that is comparable to the one on Windows, it’s just ridiculous.

Linux can be compared to a cheap $200 computer that will only last 5 to 6 months compared to a $1,600 PC that will last you a good 5 to 6 years

Sep 14, 04 - 05:15 pm Comment from: Smithy

SnagglePuss,

Quit typin' your shit and read below:

OS X - $119.95
XP Pro - $289.95

eMac - $799 (without educational discount)

So your argument is completely torn apart.

Later, cheapskate.

Sep 14, 04 - 05:16 pm Comment from: Seahawk

No serious sw runs on Windows. And no, corporate and financial sw and FPS games are not serious software.

I see no Windows applications running in the scientific world, genome research, high energy physics, nuclear blast simulation, supercomputers. None of these fields use Windows applications: they all run on Unix, Linux and now OS X.

Windows is commodity computing. It is the Burger King and McDonald 1$ meal that allowed everyone believe they can go dine at at restaurant.

It is pee allowing Windows users believe they drink champagne just because it is yellowish, have bubbles and tastes funny. Just like champagne.

Snaggle: you deserve your flute of pee and 1$ meal.

Your rant is the highest level of idiocy I have ever read anywhere from Windows apologists.

"rather than solving real problems or scenario". Give me a break, what a frigging idiot ignorant slug. Does not sucks big time to be as stupid as this troll?

Longhorn solves what now that it has been neutered? In IT there is lots of backpedaling and Microsoft will notice it in no more than a couple years. Only this month the lab have fought agains 168k virus attacks and 134 PCs got infected even with all the firewalls and network manicure involved. It is striking a cord. Longhorn with no balls carry no interest in IT. Microsoft is getting so low notes even SP2 is blocked here because ineffective and causing chaos.

Where do you live? Still in a Windows-only low rate college dorm? PC manufacturers are starting to put Linux already instead of Windows: haven't you noticed?

You really have no clue.

Microsoft is the biggest liability in all PC industry. If it was not for Linux and OpenSource developers and for independent companies like Apple we will still be punching cards, have a GUI based on F keys and carry around floppies.
Oh wait: I bet you DO still carry around floppies.

Some people really deserve Windows.

Sep 14, 04 - 05:17 pm Comment from: Smithy

"Linux cannot be embraced by the Industry; it has no common ground, architecture or authority"

HILARIOUS! ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS!

Sep 14, 04 - 05:25 pm Comment from: Seahawk

Smithy: nope, that was one of the highest peak of IDIOCY from the troll. The idiot must not even know what GNU is and Free Software Foundation is.

Idiots like this one must believe OpenSource and FSF is like "free beer".

Pathetic.

Sep 14, 04 - 05:30 pm Comment from: Roflmao

" Linux is an operating that will continue to grow at a significantly slow pace mainly because it is not focused like Windows"

ROFLMAO

By the time Windows moved from W2k to WXP Linux got what? 6 new versions?

Since XP froze RH moved up at least 3 version and now there is Scientific Linux, Fedora and Enterprise Linux.

slow, SLOW? it flies circles around the XP dyno it is ridiculous.

LOL

Sep 14, 04 - 05:32 pm Comment from: Troll estimator

The jury conveyed and states that SnagglePussy is to be elected to troll of the month.

Congratulation Pussy, you are Troll of the Month for September.

You may cut & paste your nomination and frame it - if on the crappy PeeCee you have you know how to do it without crashing that is.

Sep 14, 04 - 05:36 pm Comment from: HAHAHA

Have to take a leak: SnagglePussy, get a glass ready I'll fill it up for you.

Sep 14, 04 - 05:42 pm Comment from: DNA

Seahawk and Smithy: Very nice.

Snaggletooth: Put down the crack pipe and walk away from the Billucination. Please.

Sep 14, 04 - 05:46 pm Comment from: me

JV - I have used Longhorn! Now that they have taken so much out it is called XP.

Sep 14, 04 - 05:50 pm Comment from: Thomas Blom

Re:SnagglePuss
"You people think that Microsoft products are crappy, but 600 million users worldwide seem to think they are great..."
6000 billion flies can't be wrong, eat shit... Sorry, doesn't work that way.

Obvously, you have never used MacOSX more than blipping around with it at some exhibiton for more than 5 minutes, if ever. Find another forum for your thoughts, somewhere where someone cares and pays attention.

Shorthorn will solve nothing for you or any of your 600 million friends [sic], since it is not a re-write of a OS with more holes than a sieve, but instead a patchwork again... sigh!

Why, oh, why did not M$ go with something proven when squeezing out NT, instead of re-inveting the wheel (and every security hole in exstence (and then some)). That's your suffering, not mine - I go with BSD (OS X), where enough time has been spent to plug the holes. Have fun...

BTW:
"Linux can be compared to a cheap $200 computer that will only last 5 to 6 months compared to a $1,600 PC that will last you a good 5 to 6 years"
Same hardware, same life time. However, LLINUX will be free during this time, while M$ will cost you enough to forsake tat second car. And to a greater pain. Oh, car? Sorry, you'll know about cars in a couple of years...

However, you snaged me into writing this, congratulatons!

Sep 14, 04 - 06:08 pm Comment from: BDK

I think it's amazing Microsoft is struggling to get it's new search technology off the ground and Apple just makes it seem like butter.

It's also amazing people still stick with Microsoft. Too scared to switch. People that are too scared fall behind and the people that take the leap reap the benfits.

Sep 14, 04 - 06:24 pm Comment from: BDK

Snagglepuss "Linux is an operating that will continue to grow at a significantly slow pace mainly because it is not focused like Windows."

OH MY GOD, are you kidding me? Windows focused? The whole story is about Longhorn cutting features. Did you actually read it? It took Windows 10 YEARS to get a version out that didn't crash several times a day. Microsoft is STILL working on security and compatibility issues AFTER Service Pack 2. You call that FOCUSED?

Thanks for making my day. It's people like you that make me feel smarter than most people.

Sep 14, 04 - 06:33 pm Comment from: yikes!!!

"OS X - $119.95
XP Pro - $289.95"

Use Froogle (http://www.froogle.com)
Microsoft Windows XP Professional
$109.95

I'll assume you knew that XP has dropped in price since it came out, and you momentarily forgot. grin

"Only this month the lab have fought agains 168k virus attacks and 134 PCs got infected even with all the firewalls and network manicure involved. It is striking a cord. Longhorn with no balls carry no interest in IT. Microsoft is getting so low notes even SP2 is blocked here because ineffective and causing chaos."

Is that "cord" striking sound something like "You need to get a new IT staff?"

If you cann't handle a simple XP upgrade , I'd hate to see a KDE migration.

Sep 14, 04 - 06:33 pm Comment from: BM

My point is that many of you guys are very one-eyed supporters of Apple. That's cool, but you have to know that like many things, there are two sides.

Apple wasn't and isn't perfect, but they're products are a lot closer to perfection than MS stuff. Great!

But I would give MS some credit for their work, rather than just trashing everything they do. Longhorn promises to be a pretty good OS I think, maybe not as good as Mac OS X, but hey, this isn't the Olympics, it's business, and I think the company goals are very different, which is why things are the way they are.

I admire Bill Gates for being the richest c*nt in the world, but despise how he got there (destroying competition). And I admire Microsoft for having so many millionaire employees, yes despise the average software so many of them produce.

I admire Apple for having the best desktop OS out there, but despise their apparent arrogance, and especially their "we listened to our customers..." spin (if they did, we'd have a cheapish headless iMac for example, and most likely better graphics cards options in iMacs.)

At the end of the day, they're both just companies - one happens to do the best they can to make their products the best they can and make a fair amount of money on the side. The other just tries to make as much money as it can from it's products - it creates products as good as they need to be to achieve that goal.

Until these opinions change, I think Apple's gear will always be great, and MS's stuff will always sound better than it actually is.

Sep 14, 04 - 06:47 pm Comment from: Smithy

Sorry I got that info from XP Vs OS X, must be pretty old.

It's still $109.95 too much! And shows how much M$ cream off the lemmings who are first to try their new flavour of DOS grin

Sep 14, 04 - 06:57 pm Comment from: yikes!!!

"It's still $109.95 too much! "

I'd say its priced about right, when you consider its competitors are around that amount.

"And shows how much M$ cream off the lemmings who are first to try their new flavour of DOS grin"

WinXP has a DOS emulator, and does not run off of it.

What it really shows is that MS reacts to market pressure, and lowers its price in response. When XP first came out, there was not the level of competition there is today.

I'd say Apple not offering Quicktime Pro for free with a new mac is an example of price gouging by Apple, especially, when you consider VideoLAN (multi-platform), Xine (*nix), Windows Media Player, and others all play full screen without any charges. It works both ways.

Sep 14, 04 - 07:45 pm Comment from: Peter

Quicktime will play full screen. Either write an Applescript, or search the web.

I wouldn't call it price gouging though. When you pay the thirty bucks you do get more than just full screen. What I am not sure, because I wrote an Applescript.

Sep 14, 04 - 07:49 pm Comment from: MacSmiley

Ever watch "Seabiscuit"? Early scene in the movie:
While 2 jockeys joust each other, another 3rd horse takes the lead and wins the race.

IBM may just happen to be that 3rd horse. They made a mistake in the 80s when they trusted Bill Gates instead of writing their own OS for the masses. MS owes its success to that, added to the millions who bought PCs because that's what they used at work.

But it looks like, with Linux, IBM may just catch up and surpass everyone while we quibble, and end up again being the Big Brother they were in 1984.

Check this out:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2004/tc20040510_2149_tc024.htm

With their own operating system, even a simple idiot-proof, dumbed down version that most office workers need, IBM may just surpass everyone while we quibble, including Apple.






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