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What Zeal MDN!

you can imagine.. MDN probably started reading this thinking it was ABOUT Spotlight.. then burst out laughing when they found it was a guy who was being serious... talking about his organization skills...

Okay.. willing to figure out MHz Myth? nope..

Spend upwards of $2000 to play video games on a 17" screen? Hell Yeah!

Willing to manually organize anywhere from 40-160GB of data? Sure..

PC users are so confusing..

Well, having SpotLight is very handy indeed, yet I am certainly not going to do away with saving my files with a sensible name in a sensible place! Saving everything on the desktop, even on a Mac with Spotlight is clumsy!

And the beauty of spotlight is that it will only get better - it will no doubt get faster, offer better search options/queries, have improved search results (ie results have their colour labels and are more like they look in finder.) and as more applications take advantage of the addition of metadata and we start adding it ourselves our results will get better and better.
Used in conjunction with something like Quicksilver it's a boon.

Also, irrespective of having spotlight or not why does this guy need to use a filename structure to work out when a file was created? Just look at the created date of the file1 Interestingly you can also see when a file was last modified by looking at the last modified date.

If Spotlight is as good as its advanced billing portends it to be, can it help me find all those lost days, nights and weeks when I should have been studying at college instead of partying?

THEN I'll sing the praises of Spotlight at the top of my lungs in the middle of Redmond, WA.

The power of Spotlight is not because it does away with the need to organize your files. Organization is always important (especially in a corporate environment) regardless of how efficient the search feature is.

M.X.N.T.4.1,
Regarding naming files with dates, it can be very useful to include appropriate dates within the file name. For example, your iPhoto folder names are based on dates. Sometimes it's easier to sort through files when the date is included in the name, especially if you don't want to view the file created date or if you pass those files to someone else. Or if you have multiple files for several different dates that have the same filename, you can keep the same name but also add the date to keep the filenames unique but also useful.

But...this new way is only since Tiger...how long has that been?
I think MDN is being a little too over zealous.

Kool,

you don't have to keep things on your desktop with Spotlight. (I've never had anything on my desktop since I've been using OS X)
Spotlight means you can get away from the heirachical file system, or as you paraphrase it, a sensible name in a sensible place.
You can forget all that now! It takes a bit of a mental leap - but it's worth the try.

Spotlight is a massive paradigm shift. It will take awhile for most to realize what a change it brings. Windows is clearly a dinosaur. MDN obviously clearly sees what a change Spotlight provides - it'll be awhile before many understand. I threw all of my files into a single folder last week. No organization necessary - Spotlight handles it all now!

I'm an old dinousar mac tiger user anyway

Does anyone out there miss the "old" search function in Panther's Mail like I do? Maybe I am missing something, but I liked being able to specify a mailbox, and what type of content I was searching for within that mailbox (or mailboxes). Like only searching the "From" field for a name. Having to search through everything seems like a big step backward... and at the moment it seems slower!

Am I missing the easy way to do this still? Help!

maybe it's just me, but the idea of throwing everything into one folder, all willy nilly and that, seems really stupid. maybe it's because i do a lot of print, motion and video design and work at a printing company, but i like things to be organized into their appropriate folders instead of looking all over the place. i don't even need to open spotlight up and i already know where something is. i must be in the minority, but i can't really say i find creating and naming new folders to keep things organized such a tyranical burden.

rick,

You're stuck with stale thinking. Think outside the box, dude. I you really use Spotlight, you'll begin to understand.

izod,

Search for your term and click the "From" button that pops up above the search results pane. There are also "Entire Message," "To," "Subject" and other options to specify mailboxes available. Click "Save" to create a Smart Mailbox that will keep track of everything matching your search. For example, if you want all messages from "Mike Smith," Search for "Mike Smith," click "From," click Save and all messages from "Mike Smith" will be in that new Smart mailbox you've saved. And new messsages will be automatically added to that Smart Mailbox. It's very powerful stuff!

izod those options are still there, they appear after you have punched in your search term, just under the delete/junk/send buttons. This makes sense to me since you don't need them until you are actually looking for something.

You can still sort based on sender, subject or entire message. To sort by specific mailboxes just click on them in the left hand pane before your search. It took me a couple of tries to get used to it over the old system but it now makes much more sense.

I still get lots of beachballs on my Powerbook when sending mail in 2.0 though, which is a nuisance.

Spotlight does not help if you give your files random names as we do for our website.
Check out a jpg from amazon or other big website...
for example here is powermac at amazon- the file name:
B0007OW502.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg


We give random names so to make it harder for people to link to or search for graphic files on websites.

Rick,
There's nothing wrong with your view towards files and folders, in fact, it's actually a wise view. In a corporate environment there is absolutely no way you'd get away with throwing all your files into one folder, and there's good reason for that. The advantages of organization far outweigh the few seconds it takes to name and organize your files.

And I think that people that throw all their stuff into one folder will eventually have problems with that approach. What happens if you accidentally name or rename a file incorrectly? What if you share files with other people? What if you want to backup select files and folders? Maybe a file structure won't be as important with Spotlight, but it is still a good practice to be organized. Go over to Apple headquarters and look at their file system. I bet you're not going to see everything lumped into one folder.

Smart Folders is really the key that changes the way you interact with your computer. Being able to group files in different ways without changing the folder structure is actually very useful.

King Al,

Please give an example of how you name a file with dates on it.

Thanks

MDN is joking, yes?

Finding my collection of files in the folder I put them in is MUCH faster than programming some complex search into Spotlight, or sifting through a giant list of items returned by a broad search.

Spotlight is for when you don't know where it is, not for creating a lazy-man's burden.

RUMOR - Tiger 10.4.2 is going to put all the system files in one folder called "2400sdn340" buried twelve levels deep inside a folder marked "beward of the leopard," and each file will be found by Spotlight and used that way.

Jeremy,
I was thinking more of how I incorporate dates into files that I work with at work. For example I have daily order entry reports that might be named something like " daily order entry 20050517.txt". Each month will have approximately 20 files, and since you can't name them all with the same name, you might as well differentiate them with a date. All of those files would then go in a folder called something like "Daily Order Entry 2005-05" inside another folder for the entire year.

Sure, I could use Spotlight to try to find the specific file I want, but it seems just as quick to navigate to the correct folder since I know exactly where it will be.

"stuck with stale thinking", eh? haha, yeah.

if you want to put everything into one folder and use spotlight to find everything, more power to you. but i agree that people who do this will run into serious problems down the line by taking a 'dump it all in the junk drawer' approach to using their computer. i can't see how anyone using macs daily to make a living could do this and survive in business.

King,

That makes sense. Thanks.

I'd have to say you're a fool to depend on Spotlight for organization. I'm juggling upwards of 200-300 individual files per week at work. If I dumped them all in one folder there's no WAY I'd be able to keep track of what I'm doing. And I don't buy the "stale thinking" argument. There's a reason corporations tag everything with a job number or an inventory marker of some kind: it gives everyone involved a common point of reference. New technology is no substitute for common sense.

Just got back from vacation. We took over 4,000 photos.
Each named with a name of the file like: IMG_9938.JPG
4,000 photo files with generic names.

How the heck is Spotlight going to help me find the ones of me and the wife on the beach in France?

Here´s what Steve Jobs would say: "Rename all your files so they are more descriptive for Spotlight to do a search".

Yeah, sure...who is going to spend the nerdish time to rename files.

I will be impressed with Spotlight when I can give a visual description of the files contents ("brown dog", for example) and it will analyze the photos in a split second and find the images with brown dogs in them.
Now that would be REVOLUTIONARY!!!

Spotlight does not remove the need for folders. People who dump everything in one folder probably put all their eggs in one basket too. In many production environments you want to keep projects grouped in folders with supporting files. Folder names that include dates (usually just the year for me, but sometimes month and/or day too) are not a bad idea either. You can't rely on the created/modified date of the folder or its contents because those don't always reflect the relevant date you need to identify them by.

MW: account, as in there's more to take into account than search power

Gackle use Automator to rename all the files, then use iPhoto to put them into folders/playlists, then rename the files again by folder.

Sure it is a bit of work, but it is the kind of organization you would do anyway for showing these photos to friends, or viewing them again later, which is presumably why you took them in the first place.

Why is it that all the comments presume that there are only two ways to organize yoiur files: completely anal or completely anarchic? Many (?most) of us have something in between and while I can probably find most things quickly there are a lot of times when I'm looking for something I vaguely remember saving six months ago. Spotlight has worked very well for this. Please extend it's capabilities to Safari history so I can find that website I saw last week that has the information I didn't know I would need today...

Fred Mertz and Mike K

Thanks for the help! That makes a lot of sense - I guess I was looking too hard before actually searching a term!

Hmm...OR, you can just use the Spotlight like function in Windows Called MSN Desktop Search and forget about the whole organization thing.

http://toolbar.msn.com

I'm just a plain old dinosaur roamin' the plains lookin' for an iguanodon to chew on. Slim pickins these days, let me tell you. Slim pickins.

"Gackle use Automator to:
-rename all the files,
-then use iPhoto to put them into folders/playlists,
-then rename the files again by folder."

Oh yeah, that is really going to save me lots of time...NOT.
Once I do all that why in the heck would I need Spotlight? Eveything would be organized for me to easily find!!!!
The point is Spotlight only works if you are already somewhat organized and your files have names that you remember. The only thing Spotlight does better is it finds it all instantly.....so now you can spend lots and lots of time wading through files that have the letter "r" in them (if that´s what you are searching for)....

Or google desktop search:

http://desktop.google.com/?promo=mp-gds-v1-1

good point Bob. Most people tend to be in the middle when it comes to organizing files and folders. For these people (probably like 95% of all users) Spotlight will be a very nice tool. It lets you get away with not needing an overly rigid set of rules when it comes to naming files. It's the people that think that there is no middle ground between being organized and chaotic that should change their thinking.

Google and MSN Search do not index on the fly. They cannot do what Spotlight can do. They are tools for dinosaurs still stuck with Windows.

Mike,
MSN Desktop Search does index on the fly. The interval is set to 1 hr. So Your right it doesnt do it instantly, but if you've already forgoten where you put a file just one hr later, I think you might have some STM Loss issues...In other words, you need to lay off the weed before using the computer.

Oh yeah and Mike,

"They are tools for dinosaurs still stuck with Windows."

Yeah, and your one button mouse isnt?

Like, Apple is SOOOOOO Innovative. Click Click..

Microslut Whore,

I use a three-button USB mouse with a scroll surface with Mac OS X 10.4.1 Tiger. The third (middle) mouse button is programmed for F9 which, for you dinosaurs still stuck with Windows, activates Exposé:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/theater/expose.html

I used Windows XP Pro yesterday at work - it's sad people have to use such backwards and shoddy PCs.

Well Thats great Mike, I use a Microsoft 6 Button Mouse with 4 way scrolling.

My Sixth button (back right) is a hotkey for Expose for Windows...

http://www.otakusoftware.com/

Your Right Mike, it's sad people have to use such backwards and shoddy PCs.

But I Dont! Just the Dull, HP and Gayway users do...

Microslut Whore,

Same mouse you use works with Mac OS X. $10 for a weak Exposé fake? Whatever floats your boat. Sounds like you wanted to get a Mac.

Please excuse me, I have to go participate in a crystal clear four-way video conference:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/theater/ichat.html

maybe it's just me, but the idea of throwing everything into one folder, all willy nilly and that, seems really stupid.
---

Uh.. you know if you do that on XP you can bring your system to a grinding halt. Im not even joking about that.. BE VERY CAREFUL...

Sorry about the punctuation Ièm using a freakinè Dell at school... (mac lab full!).. and the keyboard Fu**inÈ sucks..

Gackle, sorry didn't mean any offense. I just have gotten in the habit of doing these little things which make using my Mac much more enjoyable. Sure they are a bit of work, but once you get used to doing them it is not really any more than a few seconds out of your life.

Take iTunes for example: if you are good about tagging your files, setting genres which you actually use, putting specific things in the comment field, and other such things then using Smart Playlists is unbelievably helpful and fun. Making playlists for driving is my favourite, based on excluding certain genres, insisting on a minimum beats per minute ... same for jogging mixes.

Obviously doing all the tagging at once seems like a massive chore, and not save any time. The same is true for iPhoto and most other iApps, and now very much true for Spotlight. I do agree that some organization is needed to use Spotlight effectively, but most Mac users who use OS X tend to be quite organized since the OS sort of suggests it out of the box (music, movies, documents etc.)

Actually Mike. 10$ Is a small price to pay for something with 100 times more functionality than Apples Implementation.

Obviously My Mouse works on a Mac...Duh. Otherwise Id be using my white "one" button.

"Please excuse me, I have to go participate in a crystal clear four-way video conference"

Hmm, Office live meeting works great with 128 clients. Just as clear as iSght with quality camera's..Not your free logitech from comcast.

Dinosaur,

Microsoft Office Live Meeting:
5 Seat = $375.00/month
10 Seat = $750.00/month
Pay-per-use = $0.35/minute

Apple iChat AV = Free, included in Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger

Excuse me, I'm off to watch HD video via QuickTime 7:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/hdgallery/

But did Office live meeting come with your operating system? Many people fail to see how important that is...

Mike the self-aggrandizing Mac User,

http://www.wmphd.com

"iChat Server works with the iChat client in Mac OS X Tiger as well as with popular open source clients available for Windows, Linux, even PDAs."
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/ichat/


works with windows, too.

Oops

http://www.wmvhd.com

Kensington has had two or four button programmable mice and trackballs for macs since the mid-80s. So what.

I programmed three of my four trackball buttons to be a standard mouse click, and one is the equivalent of hitting the Enter key.

I fail (after 20+ years of heavy computer use) to see how a two button mouse is such a leap of ingenuity. I have absolutely no need for an extra mouse button.