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yeah, true in a way.
but you also have to see that windows controls somewhere around 90% of the market, so when a pc news outlet reviews mac OSX, well, they need something to compare it to, to make sure people understand what osX is. can't compare it to XP, coz it's too far behind. longhorn still won't match it, but it's getting closer. So if you want your PC audience to understand what Apple has done, you have to compare it with longhorn.
and also, guess what??
FIRST POST

When will we see the Mac/Windows tipping point and how will we know it when it arrives? Will it be driven by disillusionment with Microsoft or the excitement of experiencing OS X? I think it's happening already and the vested interests are fighting a rearguard action.

No, Longhorn will still be amazing. I'm very much looking forward to it, as well as OS X 10.5, whenever that comes out.

If we assume that the current OS X +0.1 upgrade cycle is 18 month then Mac OS X 10.5 will arrive at the same time as Longwait..

This article is ridiculous.

I haven't heard a single Windows user (and I know a LOT) talking about Mac os X Tiger simply because Windows users are fine with their system.

*** let me make it clear: Windows users are not affected in any way by the release of OS X Tiger. ***

--> The reason why Longhorn is being delayed and won't be released until 2006 is because Microsoft perfectly knows its users are not currently in need of a new system and therefore releasing a new OS would just be difficult to sell and create more compability issues. <--

I don't understand how releasing a new OS could be a positive sign other than in an objective to support more advanced hardware like 64-bit processors. It just means the current OS isn't good enough yet, which isn't the case with Windows, as long as you have basic computer knoweldge in order to protect yourself from viruses & spyware.

-----
The reality is that Apple users are happy with their macs and Windows users are happy with their WindowsXP.
Both OS serve different functions:

Macs are best for very-user-friendly, basic home usage, like email, web, pictures, dvds, music.

Windows is more oriented towards the gaming public, as much more games are released for it of course, but more specifically, your computer is designed so you can easily change & upgrade its parts. You can easilly change your video card, processor, ram, etc on a windows simply because it does not come in a "standard" hardware package.

Today's Mac & Windows users have different needs. That is why Mac users will not switch to Windows and Windows users feel no intent to switch to Macs. If you're thinking about Windows security problems, let me tell you: Windows always had security problems. They're not increasing, they have always been very high, but we're used to it and we deal with it!

-peace
G-sonic

PS: I will read your answers. Feel free to post them.

I was thinking along similar lines..I don't nead a new OS, Win2K is stable and all my programs run on it, what more do I need?

as long as you have basic computer knoweldge in order to protect yourself from viruses & spyware

That's basic computer knowledge, so basic that maybe 15% of Windows users have it? You really want to protect yourself 100% without the need for this so-called "basic computer knowledge"? Get a Mac! Stupid Windows apologists make me ill, their "arguments" are so retarded to anyone with an IQ above room temperature.

MS is giving reviewers a peak at longhorn build 5048 this week. I think the longhorn spin is less the reviewers and more microsoft.

By the way -- I've updated my video card, processor, and ram on my macs. You have less options than you do with a PC, but they are not soldered in place.

Win2K is stable and all my programs run on it, what more do I need?

A clue? You'd have to be a real moron to buy programs that didn't run on your OS. Don't know about stable, but the whole Windows approach is so idiotic that W2K cost me a well paying job.

Gsonic ..As with most Windows users who comment on the Mac, you obviously have never used one.

For a truly humorous article on Longwait, check this out here

Of course, I can't like everything can I? Well, no, Longhorn does have it's short comings, however Longhorn does have the advantage that, it truly shouldn't be judged in a pre-beta stage. The text in some the icons is a bit jagged, and unfortunately DCE, the Desktop Composition Engine, couldn't be started on my hardware, so I couldn't experience all the visual effects expected in Longhorn final.

Also, there are very small things which could tend to annoy you. Occasionally an icon looks like it's been stretched too big just minor glitches which are normal in a pre-beta enviornment. However, having used Longhorn for a few days now, I have to admit that Apple needs to be worried. Longhorn doesn't even have a name yet, but it's by far the most promising thing to come out of Redmond in quite a while. With the release of build 5048 the bar has been raised, and so have my expectations of Beta 1 and beyond of this remarkable Operating System

You can't make up stuff like this. If this is representative of their supporters in the paid press, Microsoft is in deep trouble. But we already knew that...

Gsonic has got to be a Mac user amusing himself by putting a deliberately stupid post for his pals to tear apart.

I was under the impression that I could do almost all the things he claims to be able to do on my 1.8 DP G5. I haven't looked at the processor cos I don't think I need to change it and, as usual, the new OS seems to have made things snappier again.

I have just started as a substitute teacher in Glasgow and have had to work on PCs for the first time in five years. I have never seen a platform so mutually loathed by its users, but then they aren't asked for their opinions when the hardware and software is bought.

And why do Wintel fanboys continually obsess about games when I would assume buying a dedicated games box is smarter? I might as well complain that a Ferrari isn't very good because it can't pull a plough very well.

I know more about longhorn then I ever wanted to know just trying to find out about tiger.

Great article. Very insightful.

Gsonic is one of the main reasons that Windows is where it is today (in market share). It's "good enough". And since the vast majority of Windows users don't know what they don't know (i.e., Tiger), then how can they lust for a Mac? Steve could go a long way in fixing this if he would just do a little advertising on my TV.

Gsonic: Longhorn is NOT being delayed because MS thinks it's too early for an update. Their 1st targeted release date was 2004, remember? And your comment that "Windows users are not affected in any way by the release of OS X Tiger" is not true either. My daughter's friends who come over and see her G5 iMac running Panther ARE affected by it. Seriously, they sit in awe at her screen and what she can do with it. Likewise with a friend who is a VP at a local pager company here...he brought in a 20" iMac to work and set it on his desk, in an all Windows shop. (Talk about a chic-magnet.) The ONLY person who hasn't lusted over his screen is the IT guy. No wonder at that.

Gsonic, you wrote that PC users were happy with their environment because it was well suited to play games but in actuality most of the people who use windows don't care wether or not it can play games. The only reason I think there is so much emphasis on gaming in these discussions is that the people arguing are often geeks and this can lead to an over emphasis on very geeky issues. most of the computer market does not care wether you can play Fable or if the processor is user serviceable.
A new OS is a positive sign because it means that the company creating it is innovating not stagnating.

The whole "basic computer knowledge" to protect yourself from viruses, spyware, and malware is a basic knowledge that for some reason about 10% of us has. My cousins have a Dell PC and their ISP has a really bad firewall and my aunt stays up all night trying to fix it sometimes.

Not only that, but antivirus protection isn't free. People are paying $20 a year just to keep their computers protected.

Not to mention how much RAM and CPU usage these programs use because of how they have to check everything you download and everything you do and make sure it's not harmful.

And to say that everyone is happy with their OS choice is not true. I know so many people who just hate computers and just have one because they are necessary in the world today. Windows users DON'T KNOW there's a better option out there.

As for Longhorn, for the amount of features it has and productivity improvements (almost none) it's weighing in pretty heavily at 4 Gigs and Microsoft expects you to have the latest processors (3500+ or more) and 2 Gigs of RAM just for the darn thing to run decently.

Longhorn will be released around Christmas 2006--maybe. Think about that ... that's almost 2 years. That's a long, LONG, time in the tech world. It'll be a different world by then. Longhorn will be dated before it's even released.

I loved the line that said "Nearly every segment of the PC food chain needs Longhorn to succeed... (including)... antivirus outfits like Symantec".

Gimme a break. It is the same as suggesting that the world needs people like Saddam, Osama and Kim Jong Il just to keep the army occupied. Or that we need cockroaches in order to keep exterminators in business.

<Macs are best for very-user-friendly, basic home usage, like email, web, pictures, dvds, music.>

They also happen to be good for graphics, media development, and video editing. Last I checked, these are a bit beyond "basic home usage."

If I want to play games, I'll have a Playstation 2, become some people don't like sitting at their desks for "fun."

I was thinking along similar lines..I don't nead a new OS, Win2K is stable and all my programs run on it, what more do I need?

----

Ha! Well, MS is mighty annoyed, sir, they want your money...5 years since you paid MS?! For shame!!!

"almost always contain references, criticisms, or praises about how well it works with Windows and/or Windows files"

- This is very important. How many people do you think would be using Macs if they had to convert all their music files, photos, and documents to a different format just so that they could use it on their PCs? What if you couldn't network a Mac to a Windows server or to other Windows PCs? Yeah sure, you could still be productive on your Mac, but a lot of people would find it's too much work when most of the world is using Windows. There would definitely not be as many switchers if none of their files would work once they tried to transfer them to their Mac.

"The reason for Longhorn being injected into Mac OS X Tiger articles is obvious. Right now, Windows users who are reading about Mac OS X Tiger have a very unpleasant feeling. It's painfully apparent that the personal computers they are using...are far behind Apple's Mac platform. To protect against people switching en masse from Windows to Macintosh, people need to be told repeatedly of the promise of Longhorn"

- I'm sorry but I just don't buy that. If there is some conspiracy that is going on to protect the Windows crowd, why does Steve Jobs and Apple ads reference Longhorn so many times? If there is some conspiracy, then Jobs must be in on it too.

You don't need to make up wild theories to try to explain Mac's small marketshare. We all know which OS is better, just be happy with that.

I like the fact that every article mentios Longhorn being so far away. It reminds those Windows users who know Mac users how far behind their computers are getting. Just remember, it only takes a small percentage of Windows users to move over and Apple doubles its Mac sales.

Alex K. made me think of an interesting point...
How much money do you think is spent annually on power used by processors that would otherwise be idle but are instead either fighting viruses/spyware or doing their bidding as an infected spreader?
Let the world have it's SP3... I'm not too certain how capable our economy would be were a paradigm shift to occur within the next 18 months.
The grass is greener on our side of the fence because the steer has been put out to graze...

Gsonic, either you are stupid, ignorant, or you have never spent any real time with a Mac. Go download a virus and shut up the nonsense!

XP SP3 is definitely what Longhorn is turning into. I don't think it's so bad that they mention Longhorn in every article to keep reminding the PC users that you have to wait at least a year and a half before you will see anything new. And as Microsoft keeps cutting what will be new it looks even worse for them. Keep drilling it into people that what your waiting for isn't going to be any better than what you have now and I think more people will switch.

Why does every Tiger article reference Longhorn? Well, duh! Marketing, people! People who already own Macs know they're better. The 90% of the computing world who are still saddled with their Windows machines need something to have reference to so they can relate to the article. It wouldn't do any good to compare to any current Windows iteration, they all suck and everyone knows it. People would say "yeah, but the next one will be better...". Uh huh. When it shows up 18 months from now, and no it won't be better and even MS knows that. You have to mention it to answer the question "Why is your product better than the product I already have?"

And as for Windows being fine as long as you have "basic computer knowledge" - bah! My poor mother is on a first-name basis with The Geek Squad (who are fantastic, by the way) trying to keep her computer functioning, even WITH Norton SystemWorks and Firewall. There is an entire security and knowledge-base industry out there dependent entirely on Windows flaws. You don't need basic computer knowledge, you need 6 extra hours a day to read newsletters, security updates, software updates & tweaks just to say a step behind! Why are AOL, Earthlink, and others in that market hanging so much of their value to users on protection, and that THEY DO IT FOR YOU if the knowledge needed was "basic"?

Basic my arse. Oh, wait, I really meant basic my Mac!

Today Rob Enderle is now basically claiming that Apple ripped off spotlight, widgets, and the UI from Longhorn

HE goes into 64bitness but fails to mention much (or anything) about OSX 64 bitness...

Speaking of trolls......

This is all a moot point....Linux is gonna EAT microsnorf!

Woody, perhaps you might revisit what you wrote... the trans-national military/industrial/complex is a hungry beast. Most Governments 'need' ememies to justify themselves.
MW. 'while' ...While the lobster enjoys the warm water, before long it gets ... you know the rest.

Ridiculous article and observation about Microsoft... Virtually every article/review I've seen that comments about Longhorn doesn't assuage the masses, but points out that it's been delayed and is, at least, a year and half away! And emphasizes the Tiger is here NOW!

It's far more reasonable to make a case that the reviews are pitching switching and making the case for Apple.

But then I suppose I just fell for this troll of an article.

As to the posters who said they're happy with Windows, what more do they need?... the first issue is what less they need... fewer viruses, spyware, etc. and to stop feeding the Microsoft machine. Plus, it's time to enjoy the most aesthically pleasing combination of hardware/software on the planet.

"Macs are best for very-user-friendly, basic home usage, like email, web, pictures, dvds, music."

This is true. But they're also spectacular for business. I should know. I've got 100 macs networked running my high end construction business and use the Macs in so many business ways it makes your head spin. This Macs aren't good for business is a complete sham! I'm totally sick of hearing it.

The only thing that should be compared in these articles is what is shipping now, Windows XP period. Not Schlongwait. Who knows if Bonghorn will ever be completed.

Woody wrote: Gimme a break. It is the same as suggesting that the world needs people like Saddam, Osama and Kim Jong Il just to keep the army occupied. Or that we need cockroaches in order to keep exterminators in business.

And the "War On Non-Prescription Drugs" is needed to keep the DEA in business, not to mention all the confiscated money and drugs that enrich local and state police entities. All these things are true. The US hawks (Dick Cheney was one) provoked the Soviets during the cold war to ensure big orders of new weapons systems, enough to destroy all life on earth 10 times over. Humans suck, okay?

Virtually every business has to have at least one PC running Windows for shipping. Neither FedEx nor UPS has software for Macs. If we all complain to these companies, perhaps some positive change will ensue, and businesses can actually be PC-free.

Tiger killed, multilated and fed on Longhorn! Moo.

most of the reason they are postponing longwait (other than the fact that thier product blows) is that they are still waiting for business to upgrade to XP, MANY MANY businesses have not moved from win2k yet (hell we JUST got it last week and I work for the US govt, and we loooove to waste money)

once they force everyone to make that XP purchase, then they will start focusing on getting longwait out

they own the world, and they can do what they want to do on their own time


sad ain't it?


loosing a few million users to the Tiger is no big deal to them at all

ok, now I am depressed

For Gsonic

who said:
"I haven't heard a single Windows user (and I know a LOT) talking about Mac os X Tiger simply because Windows users are fine with their system."

Why then, its clearly time to rearrange your cotton. Take it out of your ears and stick it into your mouth.

The reality is that Microsoft now feels that its necessary to run TV ads again, extolling XP. I wonder why?

YMMV, it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure out why: they've realized that they're in a world of hurt, becuase the tide is turning against them. Granted, it might be just "mindshare", or it might be actual substance...but the Marketplace will ultimately decide.

Consider the recent report that stated that Mac sales and market share were up 45% in 2004, to a 2.4% market share.

Consider that today, Merrill Lynch projected that Apple may have a 4% market share by the end of 2005, which would infers a 65% growth rate.

Splitting these growth rates and rounding off to an even number, that infers around a 50% growth rate outyears. YMMV, but this is probably a pretty reasonable guess for for 2006, which Longhorn might cause the slide to end...this takes Apple's Market Share up to 6%.

However, this is where the crystal ball gets slippery. If Longhorn turns out to be the equivalent of OS 10.1, then its not unreasonable to say that Apple has a darn good chance to continue to gain marketshare through mindshare leveraging until Microsoft catches up to where OS 10.4 right now.

Assuming 1 year per OS +.1 to get to 10.4 would be 3 years. Assuming Apple moves roughly half as fast, they'll be at OS 10.5, so MS still has to play aggressive catch-up...assume parity at OS 10.6 in five years.

Continuing to assume the 50% rate would infer market shares of 9%, 14%, 20%, then 30% and 45%. Given that there's a Linux wedge in here too, it potentially means that Apple could hit full marketplace parity with Windows in by the end of CY 2011.

Thus, Microsoft is trying to blunt that potential threat today with "XP is wonderful" TV ads...even if we don't see the potential, they certainly do.

-hh

"Guess what? I don't give a sheet how well I work with Windows and I won't even after I start reading critiques of Windows based upon how it works with Macs."

AMEN STEVEJACK. But you know what? The mac media and mac fans are just as guilty of stalking M$. Just take a peek at the headlines listings and note the M$ Obsession.

I'm sick of it! Granted that it's a good idea to keep an eye on them from afar, I go to mac sites to read news about APPLE, not what musical key Bill Gates farted in today.

Just let it go already.

This should have read "Just take a peek at the headlines listings __ AT MACSURFER.COM __ and note the M$ Obsession."

Longhorn will be the biggest upgrade since windows95... People need to get rid of the sterotype of windows in the win9x/me days. Windows 2k/XP are near perfect. Any noob can protect themself from viruses.

From what i've seen Mac OSX Tiger is nothing more than a few tools slapped together with maybe a few patches, hell i could slipstream such as update with a windows xp cd....

is it just me or does anyone else care if mac gains in market share or users? i like being in the minority on this. i love watching and hearing my friends complain about their pee seas and then watch their jaws drop when they see my mac blow threw giant files or play dvds while i work in photoshop and dowload music at the same time with out crashing or (best case) ask to load drivers.
i have never run into something i wanted to do on my mac that i couldnt find software to complete. so what if i cant run "bass fishing showdown" because its a pee sea game only. i can live with that. so what if i cant find software in the close out bin at compusa for .99 that will run on my mac. ill survive. with bigger market share and more users come more no-life hackers to spam us to death and write mac-specific viruses.
i love living under the radar and am happy to pay a premium to do it.
just my .02.

I was just at a business meeting (I am the only member of a company with 600 employees who uses a Mac for business) and spoke with a few people about longhorn. A lot of them had never even heard of it. Most computer users are not nearly as savy as people who read sites like this one and will make decisions based on sound bytes and what they hear from people around them. Sooooo, I really think that Apple has to get more sound bytes out there.

Loved the article. I am sold on Macs and can't wait for OS X 10.5!!!

All those raving articles about Tiger are usually written by Apple fans. It is THEY who keep mentioning Longhorn, because they think Tiger is as good as or even better than Longhorn (which is more wishfull thinking than anything else. Longhorn isn't there yet, so you can't compare it). If you repeat something often enough, people will believe it's true. Well, as a user of both systems, I don't fall for that stuff. Give me the finished product and I'll judge for myself, I'm not going for a product based on the ravings of some fanboys or their pathetic conspiracy theories.

How idiotic is it to be a fan of either MS or Apple? Get real, they are not popstars or anything like that. They SELL computers and as far as I'm concerned they will need to work damn hard to get my cash.

Well said Hybrid! At last a wise person! It's really funny to see how mac and pc lovers r doing catfight! Seems they're totally obssesed. This is something like how Britney and Christina teenage fans dish each other idol! But Bill gates and Steve Jobs r not pop stars or politicans (no difference) to amuse us and make us to fight. They r supposed to make some good stuffs for what we do. I use WinXP cos I have to use programms such as Autocad, Photoshop, corel draw, 3dmax...so I don't have any other choice. The problem with Winxp is being on top without any real competitor so they in Microsot don't feel enough necessity to make a better version as soon as possible. I don't know how is with Mac cos never used it. But I'm really waiting for Longhorn and wish to find it cool. And I have to say WinXP was sooo way better than Win98 so it's expectable to find Longhorn better enough to satisfy PC users. But waiting till 2006? It's too long.

Let's get a few things straight:

Jobs and Gates ARE pop stars (stars of popular culture). Their rivalry has enjoyed an audience for many years.

Being a fan of MS or Apple is just as entertaining to some as being a fan of sports, entertainment, or any other preoccupation for another.

Dual platform businesses are all the same — Windows users primarily work in Word, an email program and a web browser (some users specialize in Excel and some in PowerPoint) while the Macs do the heavy lifting with production of marketing materials in print and web and so on. (No flaming, please. I'm quite aware that there are exceptions to this rule.)

Windows users in business (unlike Windows users at home) don't give a rat's arse that their operating system is lousy as long as an IT staff is around to keep things up and running.

Mac users in business don't want the IT staff anywhere near their Macs!

Gaming is an irrelevant topic in today's computer/OS debates.

90% of the PC/OS market accepts Windows the same way they accept fall-apart IKEA furniture, McD's burgers that don't really taste like burgers, third-world Wal-Mart merchandise, Britney Spears, rap, crappy cinema, reality TV drivel, and their ever-expanding waste lines.

Microsoft will deliver yet another knock off of the Mac OS (with its answer to Dashboard and Spotlight, etc.) and will be lauded for its innovation and supremacy once again. And zealous PC users will once again claim that Apple copied it all from Microsoft.

I am from the "devil" XP side with some Mac experience and i have to say that many Apple users are dazzled from the propaganda of the steve jobs. My experience with IMac: very unstable, much more the my Dell system. The pure CPU power is NOT so fast as Steve jobs would like to have it (Last review of the bes german hardware PC AND MAC magazine ct´( 11/05): G5 2,7: SPEC_INT2000 : 21,4 compared to an cheaper dell Xeon 3,6 :31,4.) This is just 50 percent slower !! And this is a true CPU compare, not some tweaked "oh, my good, this one special compiled Photoshop filter is 2 times faster" benc. Some with grafic adapters. The new apple ATI 9650 card is nearly 4 times slower in 3D than every cheapest super market PC card.

And for the tiger thing: Spotlight is nice, but there was a free Windows extension called MSN Desktop search (Beta) 3/4 year out before tiger. Now it´s final and much faster then the apple one (and still free, tiger is not). The "new dashboard" is just a little improved "Konfabulator", look at there homepage, the Mac version was there long time before tiger released and even the windows version was earlier. What a shame from Steve Jobs, to copy a nice tool and say "its from Apple". It´s not, its a copy and it´s stolen, ask the developer on the konfabulator site !!

Some thing about Tiger 64 bit. There are many very detailed reviews in the ct´magazine, so the same (issue 10/05, tiger review): Tiger is NOT a 64 bit system at all like Longhorn or even Windows 64 Bit. It´s NOT !! The underlaying kernel is 64 bit, thats true, but the hole user interface from tiger is 32 bit!! Every programm with a graphic interface is 32 bit !! If you want to use the 64 bit tiger, you have to program without ! graphic user interface. Of course Steve Jobs will never tell you, because he can sell it much more better if he let the poor apple user in their simple knowledge. (by the way, the first 64 bit DESKTOP processor was NOT an apple like Steve told you, there was an DEC Alpha 64 bit computer in the highscreen stores years before, together with windows NT 3.1 64 on it.But it wasnt´t an success..)

Open your eyes, Apple is trying to cheat so often in the past, saying apple is faster and NEVER it was true.At the presentation from the G5 they even cheated the Benchmark programms and deactivated all fast extensions on the Pentium.

Look for yourself:

http://spl.haxial.net/apple-powermac-G5/

This article is a joke, right? Does anyone really expect us to believe the claim that Longhorn is mentioned and praised in most OS X reviews? This simply isn't true. Contrary to what SteveJack writes, the mass media has gotten off by bashing Windows operating systems any way they can. Not that I base my OS opinions on the GUI, but when WinXP was launched, media squirrels the world over attacked the interface, calling it "childish", "candy-colored", and so on.

Flash forward to OS X's release. These same media outlets bleed absolute praise for its look, saying it ushered in the future of desktop computing.

Face the truth: OS X was inspired by WinXP, graphically as well as functionally.

Face the truth: XP brought bigger advancements to the computing field while OS X was just a twinkle in someone's eye.

Face the truth: This idea that Longhorn is being mentioned in OS X reviews is nothing short of absurd. The only people who ever mention Longhorn are the ones who judge and bash it long before its release. SteveJack is clearly one of these people.

Face the truth: You know why Apple releases so many revisions of OS X? Its because they constantly need a new feature to hype if they want to keep up with Microsoft.

Microsoft's philosophy: Release an OS with ALL of the new features, support it, and begin work on the next major OS, allowing more time for optimum innovation.

Apple's philosophy: Release a graphically enhanced version of an existing OS to counter Microsoft, and force users to upgrade to a brand-new OS every three to six months just so they can have one new feature per OS. Hype that feature up as being something new, (new because it will work on 10.4 and not 10.3.9, or whatever they number it as...) and watch the media fall blindly in love.

"My daughter's friends who come over and see her G5 iMac running Panther ARE affected by it. Seriously, they sit in awe at her screen and what she can do with it."

there is nothing so fun as having 8-12 apps open on my iBook and F9 drag things from one to the other in some regular work day routine and hear "holy freaking $#!% what was that you just did?!?" from over my shoulder. i am so used to it by now that i forget just how cool it is......

and they always ask where i downloaded it, and how they can install it on their win boxes. i LOVE that part...

"Face the truth: OS X was inspired by WinXP, graphically as well as functionally.

Face the truth: XP brought bigger advancements to the computing field while OS X was just a twinkle in someone's eye."

hey genius, you might wanna just check your dates on that one...... find out when XP was released, then when OS X was released, k? get back to us.....