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Why is everyone attacking the French over one stupid law? Attack the law, not a group of people. This is the same moronic ignorance that permeated the US when the French didn't side with the US prior to the invasion of Iraq.

All you apple headed people, cut it! This law will also force content providers to allow playing movies from DVDs in mobile devices like an iPod or PSP. Stop whining or insulting the French since your country does nothing more than stripping consumers from their rights all the time! It's time someone thought of the comsumers and not the big companies (record and movie especially) and succumb to their greediness.
This law is in order to protect our rights!

exactly as been already said this law is a waste of time. I play CDs of my iTunes playlist all the time. If users will be allowed to convert to a different format it simply won't matter. iPods success is based on way bigger factors than DRM.

Fairplay is good because it is a light reminder of copyright for the average person. Like shrinkwrap around a new CD.

It's not about razors (iPods) and razor blades (music). It's about the razor blade holder and loader (iTunes Music Store).

Apple's value is the service of iTunes Music Store. That value is diluted if third-rate players can use the store and they don't work correctly. Apple gets blamed, not the piece of crap player.

In this case, Apple sells the razor and the mechanism for loading the razor blades correctly and seamlessly every time. Who provides the razor blades is irrelevant.

here's an idea...apple could create an "Export-to WMA" menu function, but charge the user the rate to license Windows Media to enable the feature.

that would keep it under their control.

The French are retarded!!! Don’t do business with them. Years ago, they had a dispute with the Hong Kong garment trade. Instead of relaxing the garment quota as the Hong Kong businessmen requested, they agreed to increase the quota for importing bean sprout into France!!! Morons!!!

Actually, I have a better idea. Since iTunes is the de facto standard on the internet just make all the stores in France use Fairplay . That would piss of MS. (I am joking by the way).

Tim Coughlin

The record labels must be laughing their a$$es off. They have the entire world, companies, governments and individuals all knocking each other senseless for the oportunity to sell their music. What a great position to be in. And the labels don't care what format it's in. As long as Napster is different from iTMS then the two will compete against each other. No sweat off the labels. The labels don't even have to advertise their products, the digital distributors are doing that now. What a racket.

Songs can only be downloaded to a computer. Burn the song to a CD and it will play anyware.

Apple is ALREADY in compliance with the new law!

Tre says, "The bottom line is a reseller should not be able to put restrictions on what type of device content can be played on if they are not the owner of that content...

Apple has the right to develop Mac only software, because it is THEIR SOFTWARE.. However, they should not be able to sell someone else's content and restrict it to play on their device ONLY."

Tre, you need to think this over further. A reseller also sells music on a CD, which can only be played on a CD player that conforms to the Red Book standard. DVD-Audio and SACD are other competing audio formats. The same can be said about Fairplay, and PlaysforSure, and maybe Realplayer. They are competing formats that only play on certain operating systems and portable devices. In a capitalist society, the market will force compatibility, if needed. Apple has done nothing illegal by tying the playback of iTunes purchased music to Apple's portable device. If consumers don't want that they have the choice to purchase their music online elsewhere, or buy the CD, or DVD-Audio, or SACD, or tape, or record, etc.

Also, the "someone else's" content that Apple is selling is owned by the record companies most of the time, and they are the one's requiring the DRM in the first place. So your argument doesn't stand there either.

It's good to see that there are no bonehead racists among Americans.

DRM is bad. Go for it France!! When I buy a song I want to play it on any device that I own. All the Apple aplogists here are wrong. It is wrong for a company to tell you how you can use your music and what device you want to play it on. Big corporations controlling how intelectual property can be used is the stuff of big brother.

Bee Ess!

The loudest voices against DRM and copyright protection schemes are from the very folks who have the largest collections of pirated music and software.

If consumers played fair there would be no need for protection schemes.

Crying foul for your rights as a consumer while laying in ten thousand pirated pieces of music is about as foul as it gets.

PS: Tre, you're not a lawyer, you're an idiot! You and the RIAA deserve each other.

Easy peasy - shut down ITunes/France

Freedom fried head says, "It's good to see that there are no bonehead racists among Americans."

I couldn't agree with you more. Frenchman is a NATIONALITY, by the way. Not a RACE. Sounds like you should not have fried your head, man.

France is once again sticking their insignificant heads into someone else's problem. France has little if nothing to do with Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo, Napster, Creative, Samsung, even Coke (cokemusic) for that matter. Yet they are once again pathetically trying to make policy governing it again. FRANCE LEARN to LEAD! Then you can have it your way...and in French to boot! Or, just sit on your historic laurels and wait 'til you're invaded (physically or metaphorically) and then whine, whine, whine... It's sadly pathetic and predictable.

F-ing French

John says, "DRM is bad. Go for it France!! When I buy a song I want to play it on any device that I own. All the Apple aplogists here are wrong. It is wrong for a company to tell you how you can use your music and what device you want to play it on. Big corporations controlling how intelectual property can be used is the stuff of big brother."

If you read the contract before you purchase, you agree to the DRM. If you don't like the DRM, buy the CD. This is called capitalism, not apologizing for Apple. You as a consumer still have a choice.

Frogs are anti American. Screw-'em.

Just Frogs Ron?

Little history of this law in France.

In december, Renaud Donnedieu de Vabre (assigned to Culture in the french governement) and his governement wanted a new law on digital rights in a project called DADVSI (Droits d’Auteur et aux Droits Voisins dans la Société de l’Information = Author's rights and neighbor's rights in an information society). The project was rejected by all, but not by majors. To face the rejection, the governement decide to make the project 'urgent' which means only one vote by the Assemblée and then one by the Senate. The project was submitted to Parliament and to general surprise, during a night with 20 or 30 deputys, Parliament took the decision to deeply modify the text and authorize a 'global licence' in the first article of the law. French would have been legally asked to pay 10 or 15 € per month to download everything they wanted. Just before Xmas holidays, dealing with majors panic and his own, the governement went back and said 'no more vote on this text' trampling democraty. Disc industry struggle with anger and strangly the project wasn't urgent anymore !

In January, the governement decided that the Parliament must vote another time on the modified project (hoping more majority deputys would be present to modify back the project). But during the last night before the vote, using an old law forgotten by all, the governement decide to suppress the incriminated article in order to please the disc industry. Two days later, facing the revolt of deputys (majority and opposition), the governement introduce back the modified article (authorizing global licence) fearing that its precedent move could be unconstitutional. The article was then modified, global licence was no more.

Now we are learning that governement wants to introduce another article to make cracking legal. You should see that in the context. The goverment makes everything and its contrary, flirting with the constitutional limit every days and making big titles in press every two days.

In a more general context the goverment faces a student demonstration which send around a million of them in street to demonstrate every weeks since a month. The goverment is in extrem difficulty and does not wants to look like it is yielding to anyone. Well France is not in a very good time since rumor of prime minister would resign.

Building DRM into TVs just shows how @$$-f_cked the consumer is in all this!

This is totally on the companies' conditions, you suckers paying for DRMtagged music and movies are just contributing to the problem!

Direct Connect for the people!

chris: "Just Frogs Ron?"

No, "chris", not just Frogs. Ron is right. Ironically, so are you.

Others are anti-American, too. But the point is . . . WHO GIVES A SHIT?!?

SCREW ALL OF THEM! The United States -- and American companies -- should do what is good . . . FOR THE UNITED STATES!!!! That's the way of the world.

So, the French "think" they're trying to do what's good for the French. FINE.

Then APPLE should do what's good for APPLE. And the American consumers. And that is to PULL THE iTUNES STORE OUT OF FRANCE!

F-CK Chirac and the FRENCH!

Actually, and if this law applies to DVD content, too, it is good. Imagine owning an iPod and some flash mp3 player you got as present from a sales rep. Now you want to load some of the music you bought at iTMS on that sorry little thing. Of course, you can work around the problem via the CD, but why not allow people to convert the music they bought into another format, compatible with the $29 player? That's the idea. To protect the consumer. This law will also apply to people who see the light after a period of .wma benightedness and who switch to the iPod. They will be able to use their legally purchased m usic on their new device.
As long as Apple delivers superior products (they do that, don't they?) this may even be advantageous, because the poor schmucks who started their online music experience with the likes of Napster and Creative can switch to the iPod without loosing their content.
And it's going to be interesting to see how the proponents of rent-a-song subscription services will be able to weather this law! If you strip the DRM of a rented song, it's yours to keep.

...given that you can burn a CD of iTMS tracks that are no longer protected, which I believe is a software-related method of circumventing the DRM and converting to a non-iPod compatible format such as mp3. If that is sufficient to comply with the law, rather than allowing 3rd party developers to be able to remove Apple DRM, then nothing has changed.

The industry observers seem to be of the mindset that if there is any way that DRM can be removed from digital media, all is lost. Given that a) it is easy to remove the Apple DRM already and b) people can already rip CDs without DRM (I'm assuming the majority of CDs in France do not have DRM that prevents ripping...forgive me if that is incorrect), and c) people that buy from iTMS are by definition trying to avoid pirating, I do not believe this is that big of a deal.

The only real problem is if they are required to make iTunes sync with the player.

"The law would also mean that other online French music retailers such as Fnac, part of PPR , would have to make iTunes songs available on their Web sites." I don't get this part. It doesn't seem like Apple would want that even if the other retailers were required to do it.

> France is once again sticking their insignificant heads into someone else's problem.

Well, I'm a mac user since I sold my Amstrad CPC 6128 but I can't agree with you. If american people doesn't want to sell songs to french, no problem. Shut the iTMS down ! I will be sad, but in a second, 10 more suppliers will be ready to success. Apple does sell iPod and music in France, it's our problem in our country. When industry limits user's rights to listen a paid song on the device he choose, there's a problem and law could be a solution to solve it.
Apple have to convince people, iPod is the best music player in the world and iPod doesn't need to capture customers with iTunes songs.

Industry's moves have to be regulates, the microsoft case prove it !

And stop this basic anti-french reactions please, everyone is smarter than this ...

It's strange reading through all the above posts and MDN's take, because it's quite clear that only three people have actually understood what this story is about.

Apple's iTMS won't be affected. It's not an anti-American stance. It's nothing to do with cheese, frogs or war either.

All that is being proposed is to pass a law which allows French consumers to circumvent DRM without fear of prosecution.

Up until now I never realised that so many MDN readers were quite such keen supporters of DRM. I had previously been under the impression that it was regarded as a bad thing, or at least as a necessary evil, but it's fascinating to see that there are so many people who are so very vocal in their support of DRM.

Clearly it couldn't be a case of people looking for an excuse to knock anything French and failing to think what the story really was about !

In case anybody is wondering, I'm not French, but I can read.

So, Microsoft would also have to open up its DRM (hence PlaysForSure) to include other computing platforms; like Mac, Linux, Amiga and etc...?

>"The law would also mean that other online French music retailers such as Fnac, part of PPR , would have to make iTunes songs available on their Web sites." I don't get this part. It doesn't seem like Apple would want that even if the other retailers were required to do it.

Given the fact that retailers like Fnac only sell WMA songs, I think it means that those retailer will have to sell songs that are compatible with iTunes/iPod (MP3 at least).

>So, Microsoft would also have to open up its DRM (hence PlaysForSure) to include other computing platforms; like Mac, Linux, Amiga and etc...?

Not necessarily, but if they doesn't no one will blame customers that crack DRM to listen a microsoft song on a iPod.

Isn't it, what everyone wants ?

"SCREW ALL OF THEM! The United States -- and American companies -- should do what is good . . . FOR THE UNITED STATES!!!! That's the way of the world."




What aload of deluded carp. Apple is a global company that serves to make share holders richer. Apple equipment is built by the chinese to sell around the world. The world is a place in which the country AMERICA RESIDES.
Apple cannot afford to ignore any market.

Grrrr!

The proposal appears to allow a person to crack the DRM so they can use their purchased music in the way that they want. It doesn't say copyright is to be removed so in effect it looks like the 'fair use' principle which is available in the US (although for how much longer?). The iTMS is used in the story primarily as a hook to garner publicity.

Now surely that is something to be applauded - the government standing up for the rights of consumers against businesses - instead of having petty mindless bigotry sprayed on here by people who appear unable to accept that others can actually 'Think Different'.

From my time in France I discovered that most people there are wonderful, a few are twats and the government is full of morons. From my time in the US I discovered exactly the same thing. Plus ça change...

Some posters on this site have partial blindness. The law would apply to all European based companies and DRM.

"...The new legislation is triggered by France's need to transpose the European directive on copyrights into its own body of law, which it failed to do by the December 2002 deadline." (This means the French were supporting DRM.)

This move is against DRM and you think I'm going to oppose such a move because I like DRM. After working in that industry for over a decade anything that opens it up and supports the removal of DRM and hobbles the most anti consumer industry has my vote.

For the record I don't use the iTunes Music for two very important reasons.

1. The bit rate is half the rate for what I would call acceptable quality. (It is NOT "near cd quality). It's an inferior product at an inferior price and,

2. The DRM. It's not that we own mp3 players other than ipods (we own two and another will be purchased soon) it's just the principle of of supporting an anti-competitive process.

I now use allofmp3.com because of the aforementioned reasons. I purchase non DRM music at cd quality. I pay through a third party and the download IS at cd quality level. I have no problems with the download and my Visa account is still intact

How many people have never asked a friend for a copy of a cd or if you're a bit older you never made cassette copies of cds, or if you're older again you never made cassette copies of vinyl records. Give me a break.

We all break copyright. It just seems that when it's French or European it must be bad. Well I support this change and anything that buries DRM has my support.

Now I think I might destroy my scanner and all the photocopiers I can lay my hands on because I support copyright. Anything that has helped consumers break copyright has been opposed by print and music publishers. This means mp3 players, dvd/vcr recorders, photocopiers/scanners, cassette recorders etc.DRM sucks and so does copyright.

MDN magic word "time" as in about time

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MAC FANBOYS DEMONSTRATE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME ONCE AGAIN

Consider yourself warned.

In France we have a tax called 'tax for private copy'. French people pay it when buying cd, dvd and fash/harddrive music players. The tax goes directly to artist trough a specialized organisation. So everyone has the right to copy music from a cd/dvd/music player to another to bakup it or listen it.

This move again drm may exist to allow private copy, as artist are still being paid by this tax.

Dear me@you,

Now this is a scheme that I could support. This would help the musicians whilst at the same time it would help bury DRM. Then again there are many who would scream blue murder over anything that allows government involvement in the music industry. Good one mate. And you didn't even try to denigrate the non-French supporters of this site.

Just for a laugh, check this out...

http://www.pavefrance.com

http://www.pavefrance.com/blog/images/headeright.gif

France sucks!!!

Although the chicks are hot there.

A couple of obvious points:

1. Apple doesn't impose DRM on iTunes music-it's required by the music companies who liscence the music.

2. Stripping an AAC file of it's protection won't enable it to play on a portable player that doesn't support AAC files.

3. The iTunes Music Store is a service that Apple provides to consumers. No one forces folks to buy downloads from it, even if they are iPod owners (remember, the iPod existed for a while before the music store). To purchase from the store, I must agree to the Terms of Service and the limitations and restrictions imposed thereby. If I don't like those terms and restrictions, I shouldn't make the purchase. I fail to see how voluntarily entering into a contract with another party in any way restricts my liberties or rights.

4. What this legislation would do, in fact, is negate Apple's (and others, I presume) TOS agreements.

5. If this law is passed, I suspect that all of the major music companies will pull their liscences and refuse to their property to be legally downloaded in France.

When socialist francophone minds set out to right what they see as a wrong, they can end up screwing up the whole country.

Take it from a Canadian who knows.

Make fun of the french when you have nothing else to say ...You are part of the great American power and his victories !!! the greatest one , Vietnam , sorry , i made a mistake you did not win that one , YOU RAN AWAY !!!! , then the bigger ones , Grenada , Panama , Irak ..... all world powers ..... If you are that brave and that powerful what about going to North Korea , China ..........

"The world is a place in which the country AMERICA RESIDES."

They are 5% of the World's population who think they are 95%. And still the only country to have used nukes on another nation. Pax Americana, what a joke.

"Under a draft law expected to be voted in parliament on Thursday, consumers would be able to legally use software that converts digital content into any format."

I haven't heard anything about using Audio Hijack or Wiretap being illegal. Are they just not French localized? This does seem to be about converting formats, not DRM.

To those who say that France is an insignificant market:

France: population 61 million

US : Population 295 million

So France has about 20% of the population of the US. And France is a significant part of EU.
EU has about 700 million inhabitants, i.e. more than twice the sice of the US. So what happens in France is very significant for a US business!

The interesting part of this legislation is that while Apple must open iTMS material to play on other mp3-players, the other shops must also comply, meaning that they must sell content that is playable on iPods. So either they must stop including Windows-only DRM and sell the music in a non-proprietary format (WMA - they must use an open standard like AAC) or MS must develop their DRM fr other platforms than Windows and "PlayForSure". I think the other shops have more to lose from this law than Apple.

OK, I'm not a lawyer, but two things came to my mind when reading this.

1) iTMS Europe is based in Luxembourg, not France.
2) Under the Maastricht Treaty, it is illegal for a member state to ban the purchasing of goods from another member state.

These sort of suggest that only French origin content is going to come under this law. Anyone able to clarify?

Good point Dave H. I also believe that ecommerce products are 'consumed' wherever they are sold, which is why iTMS is located in Luxembourg (lowest VAT).
One might wonder why we (America) are still catching up in terms of mobile communication with the rest of the world.
The "If you aren't with us, you are against us" rant and rave mentality is for kindergarten, so unless you are posting from there....
Does any American really truly believe that the contry has lessons to give? Just let navel gazing Apple executives deal with the French government like Dubai Ports World has to deal with the American.

timber says, "Make fun of the french when you have nothing else to say ...You are part of the great American power and his victories !!! the greatest one , Vietnam , sorry , i made a mistake you did not win that one , YOU RAN AWAY !!!! , then the bigger ones , Grenada , Panama , Irak ..... all world powers ..... If you are that brave and that powerful what about going to North Korea , China .........."

Who pulled out of Vietnam before the US? Yes, the French. How about Germany, and USSR? I don't see Europe doing a damn thing about any of the countries you listed either.

bikersrule are you that stupid or do you really not realize than allofmp3 is a Russian pirate site? They exist through a loophole in russian "multimedia" law. However it (allofmp3) does not pay the Artist or the label a dime. If you are going to steal music at least do it on P2P so you don't make pirates rich.

And while you are stealing music and justifying you smug attitude with rationalizations like artists (and record executives) make enough money so it is ok to steal from them. Think about the tens of thousands of people involved in the music industry, backing musicians, technicians and support personnel. These people work hard usually have long hours and don't make a ton of money You (and people like you) who don't think the should pay for music (or should be able to dictate terms) really make me sick. I really hope someone breaks in to your home and robs you blind, since "I" think you have too much stuff anyway.

The French got it wrong...

...as usual!

Dear Gill,

I try to put forward a reasoned argument and I get trash in reply. For the record I worked in the music industry for over ten years. You know who the pirates are…the record companies.

I did everything from being a venue operator through to being a musician and then working for a musician's union. It's about time the industry dumped their twentieth century attitude (copyright) and moved with the times.

This is one possible model:

1. The musician derives an income from live performances and that's it. Just like most other people in this world. Being a musician is not some ancient craft, it's a job. Copyright is disappearing and increasing numbers of workers who previously enjoyed this luxury are seeing it transferred to employers (just ask any journalist who in many countries no longer derive anything other than a straight out salary).

2. The companies agree to market the band for a percentage of their live performances and for the provision of advanced web design. The musician decides either to charge a small fee to the punters for the download or downloads the music for free to the receiver.

3. The publicity from the downloads then leads to more bums on seats from the punters and thus more income.

I hope you can understand this possible business model or are you just interested in being insulting.

I repeat my previous point. If the iTunes Music Store offered cd quality downloads I'd sign up faster than the bile that flows from your mouth. And as for DRM copyright it just plain sucks.

Oh I've got to go now as someone's breaking into my house…and it must be you.

It's nice to see America isn't the only country the world hates.

Dumb ass efing frogs.