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Who you gonna call?

Well after driving a steam roller over both feet and their credibility with a recent piece about the processor switch opening the door to virus gloom on Macs they had to backpedal fast and publish something real.

nice Ghostbusters reference, MDN.

Holy hell, what is the temperature down there today? This is a shock and a half. eWeek publishing something truthful about the Mac...it's a rare thing indeed.

BTW, MDN, perfect choice for a quote. Ghostbusters references are just awesome. :D

Don't get too excited, this article raises the old "the reason there aren't any exploits for Macs is because Macs aren't popular" canard.

Sigh.

Re MDN Take: "...eWeek publishing common sense regarding Mac OS X security..."

But this is unheard of! MDN actually saying that the following is common sense:

"Why were there no major exploits of these vulnerabilities? Was it because they were too hard to do? Of course not. They weren't worth exploiting because there are a dearth of actual Mac systems out there..."

Which leads to the logical conclusion: as the number of Mac systems increase, so will the probability that hackers will target them.

But that's heresy! OS X is invulnerable!!! There will never be a virus written for it! All Mac users should remember - do not buy anti-virus software and make sure to send your
daily dose of hate mail to those security firms and IT types so they leave you and your blessed OS alone.

Remember that.

Evil_MS_User

Shouldn't you go count your huge salary?

Some security tips is worth it

http://homepage.mac.com/hogfish/Personal9.html

Oh. You saw that. Hey, I apologized already, didn't I? Give a guy a break. It's not my fault my boss loves me...

I'm being duped. Identity theft! Identity theft!

I swear. Really. I believe MS rules. Rules forever. One EUA to rule them all.

Bwaaa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Tools. You are all MS minions. Quicktime is a smokescreen. Steve will sell Apple at the peakof it's value in about a year and a half.

Or MS will take it over by force before then.

Suckers.

Boy, using the same sig all the time probably isn't a good idea. Some Mac fanboys sure have a sense of humor .

Anyways, the tone of a post is a lot more difficult to emulate.

So everyone should be able to tell when it's the real deal that's posting - not some joker.

John Gruber at Daring Fireball: http://daringfireball.net/2004/06/broken_windows

An excellent read on this very topic.

And crackers/hackers can "target" the Mac OS all they want. It's a non-story until they actually DO break through, which will be a truly momentous day and all those doom and gloom Ghostbuster reasons will TRULY come true. I bet Bill Murray will be long gone before it happens, though. Every corner of the media universe will assail Apple mercilessly for weeks upon weeks if that ever happens. And it probably will. But not for a LOOOOONNNG time.

There is a real side to security through obscurity. Apple posts security patches regularly to Mac OS X. If you take a really old version of Mac OS X, there are known exploits for it that Apple has long since patched. Run that old version of Mac OS X on your G4, and nobody is going to take advantage of those exploits because nobody gives a crap.

MDN, you folks can't be as ignorant as you seem to be every time that you post your security vs. obscurity argument. Every logical virus maker would target the most common operating system so that their viruses could do the most damage. Just because macs have 5% of market share does not at all mean that they receive 5% as much virus targeting as windows. That's just common sense.

Also, viruses came out for Vista when only 10,000 people had it because virus makers know that soon millions and millions of people will have it. They are just trying to get a head start.

Lastly, I believe you when you say that OS X has had zero documented viruses, but, especially for the number of times that you post that information, I wouldn't mind it if you also posted a source.

I have never owned a computer that is not a Macintosh. Macs are obviously significantly more secure than Windows PCs (not to mention better in just about every other way). But we must admit that everything has some flaws, and perhaps if OS X was targetted as often as windows is hackers might have found a couple of ways to create viruses.

Hey Evil,

I've been running OS X since it came out, and I've been "going commando". Yep, that's right: No viruses, no malware, no spyware, not a one. Now, would you/could you claim the same thing? Probably not. I'll continue to do so. I won't claim that no virus will ever be built for Mac OS X, but I will say that if the hackers and crackers and virus writers thought that they could do it, they would have built one by now. Take a look at all of the viruses out there. Every single one has the writer's sig on it somewhere, so that they can claim it. To be the first Mac virus author would give you infamy. But it just hasn't happened.

Now, if you *REALLY* work in the IT field, you should understand a little something about security. And if you really do use a Mac and really do use Windows, you'd instantly understand this whole discussion. Macs ARE secure. The OS was built to be secure. I doubt I need to explain this to you. Windows IS NOT secure. It never will be as long as it continues to be built on the same faulty code over and over.

So, you come into this forum talking about "mac fan boys", yet you are the one that is showing his fan boy side. Does it make you feel superior that you are using Windows (no doubt because everyone else does)? That is something to laugh about.

Jimbo, my friend. All I ask is that you peruse the MDN archives for all my posts. After you have a more definite idea of what I do we can have a livelier discussion on OS security.

I don't know why I try. To educate you Macheads is almost futile.

I don't HATE the Mac OS, it's just not as versatile. Educate?!? Enlighten?!? Share another perspective??!!??

"Blasphemy!!!!!! Macs are invulnerable!!!!!! You are a troll!!!!!!"

Come on ... get a clue. More OS installations = more Viruses and attacks. It's simple logic. Except around here.

Get a clue, fanwankers.

Evil -- There must be some leftover whippets or something lying around here.

Help yourself, Cheese.

Evil_MS_User,

Please stop making Windows users look like complete asses. You're wrong. OS X is not only safe via obscurity (a non-sequitur) but it is ALSO safe by design. Simple as that. Until Windows is as strict about requiring the use of an admin password to modify system files or install ANY program, it's simply a fact that OS X is more secure. Not shut up about it and quit reminding people. You are no friend of Microsoft!

Regards,

Carnegie...er Billy

"Until Windows is as strict about requiring the use of an admin password to modify system files or install ANY program, it's simply a fact that OS X is more secure."

Partially true. IT departments learned this a long time ago, which is why you will be hard-pressed to find any corporation nowadays that hasn't "locked down" their users' desktops. I actually started using a non-admin account for everyday use back when NT 4.0 was released and have been doing it ever since.

The big problem has always been these legacy apps that required local admin rights to run properly. I know about them very well - I can't count the number of apps I've had to repackage to work around this problem. But it's actually getting better - the other day I installed a small photo album app for a Philips digital camera and I was fully expecting to have to tweak it to get it to work without admin rights. But lo and behold - it worked right out of the bat. So the developers are finally coming around to programming to Win2K specs...

The overwhelming number of IT installations require oversight and off-site (or near-site) administration from within the confines of the resident IT fortress. That's the building (or department) where the average employee doesn't have a prayer in hell of getting into. This mentality serves to further secure the IT department's permanence and safety from corporate downsizing attack.

This mentality is predominant in corporate culture. And it's precisely why Macs will never make a dent in the corporate business infrastructure. They are simply too secure and far, far too user-manageable. With current IT loss rates at only -1% per annum nationwide, no IT manager in his right mind will recommend a switch to a more secure Linux or OS X paradigm, lest said department suddenly begin to experience greater loss and employee defection rates -- probably in the neighborhood of +33% or higher.

It's really simple human nature.

I made a poopy.

Just caught the above two posts. You should really hear me laughing now. This is hilarious!

Love it. 8-P

Keep it up...

You ARE a poopy.

You ALL suck! ALL of you!






I'm going for a walk now.


<sound of door slamming>

Let me blow a hole in this nonsense.

If I were a criminal, my first inclination would be to maximize the return on my criminal endeavors. If I'm going to take a risk, I want a big payoff.

Now, I might write a program that captures passwords and credit card information as a victim shops online. Who should I target this malware toward? Let me see:

A) as a percentage, Mac users overwhelming use the internet more than Windblows users. This is statistically borne-out in virtually all online usage data. Mac OS/browsers are represented disproportionately high relative to the Mac's alleged "marketshare."

B) Mac buyers/users tend to be better-educated and more highly paid than Windblows users. This has been borne-out in virtually all marketing research studies done on the subject since the dawn of time. (Don't believe me? Google it for yourself.) Thus, there is a higher credit limit potential from a Mac victim.

In light of the two factors above, my nefarious malware efforts would be better spent, with greater potential ill-gotten earnings, by targeting my malware at Mac users.

So, Windblows apologists, why hasn't this happened yet? Don't spew me anymore of that "obscurity" nonsense.

You young folk, lets take this further. OS 7 had an even smaller user base than OS 10. But there were over 50 viruses for OS 7.
If the argument of Security Via Obscurity is true, then what gives for OS 7 ?

What, can't figure that one out?

Idiots.

I lick asshole.

STOP IT!!!!!

STOP IT YOU MUTHAF-CKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I SWEAR I'M GONNA DO SOMETHING REALLY, REALLY BAD!!!

YOU BUNCHA SCUMBAGS!!!!!!

NO ONE MOCKS ME!!! NO ONE!!!

I'LL SHOW YOU.

WATCH THIS, RETARDS!

[BLAM]

Dude - you ARE funny. Nevermind - laughing makes it hard to type.

I see you, clone. I've been hunting you for years and I'm getting close. You know I am.

Please keep posting, I'm THIS close to getting your I.P. address.

I WILL FIND YOU AND KILL YOU, CLONNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

[BLAM, BLAM!]

. . .

Shit -- Missed.

attackers suddenly have a better shot of finding Macs to attack

The above in just silly and shows lacks of competence. A Mac has the same number of attacks per hour as a Windows or Linux platform. About 400.

Computers online are seen as IP numbers and the virus/malware knocks on all of them. If behind there is Windows running than the computer gets infected. Otherwise not.

We are again at the same silly image of catching cold in a stadium: "if the stadium is full then you catch a cold (Windows) if the stadium is empty you cannot catch the cold that easily".

The above mental picture is just an idiocy: there is only one virtual stadium, the net, everybody is in: the weak ones get sick, the strong strive. Just that.

What you unwashed Mac-hippies don't seem to understand is that in the REAL world, if you want to get ANY work done and make ANY money at all, you have to be using WINDOWS. While you leftist macboy wackos are out "tappin' hoes" in front of your iSight macbooks and listening to some "sick beats" on your iPods, I'm out in the real world pulling in SIX FIGURES. SIX. FIGURES. And it's thanks to Windows. You want fries with that, macboys?

And what are you doing while I'm doing that? Probably smoking "the weed" out of the back of a VW bus, and messing around with "GarageBand" on your "PowerBooks"

ROFLMAO

Evil_MS_User, when you do 6 FIGURES in British pounds come talk to me.

UHAHAHAHAHA, what do you get? puny $?

Silly, ever read reports that Mac users are among the wealthiest layer of society? You silly_MS_Users have always told Mac users that we waste our money on pricey toys. Well, you know why? Because WE CAN moron!

They might look pricey to you: pretty cheap to me.

I SEE YOU, CLONE! I SEE YOU BEHIND THAT DUMPSTER!!

I CAN SEE YOU THROUGH ALL THE DISCARDED WINDOWS UNITS, YOU FOOL!!!!!!!

[BLAM . . . BLAM, BLAM]

Shit . . .

[BLAM]

I'LL GET YOU, YOU C-CKSUCKER!!!!

YOU WON'T MAKE FALSE CLAIMS ABOUT MY SALARY ANYMORE, YOU PIECE OF S-

[BLAM]

[Moans]

Why, clone . . . why?

Most entertaining series of posts in a long time.

By the way, I have been making 6 figures per year with a Mac since the early 90's.

I haven't been doing it by repairing holes in the OS and reinstalling the OS and all the Apps. I don't do IT work, I do real work.

TO ALL Mac OS X Users (myself being one) - DON'T GET COMPLACENT OR SOMEDAY YOU WILL EAT YOUR WORDS.

Some security issues come down to the users themselves. USE COMMON SENSE.

I clicked on the link above : http://homepage.mac.com/hogfish/Personal9.html and there is some good info there.

No virues - True (at least not KNOWN to exist at this time)

No Spyware - FALSE! Proof: If any of you are still using Windows Media Player for Mac, you are indeed using a piece of spyware. It's not malicious - it's more what I would call "Marketing-Ware". In other words, it collects statistical info on what you view and passes that info on to MS, Wal Mart, live365.com, passalong.com and quite a few others by direct connection AND cookies (not all cookies are sweet). It will do this EVEN IF THE FILE WAS PREVIOUSLY SAVED TO YOUR HARD DRIVE - as long as you are connected to the Internet.

Some programs can and do "Phone Home" (sometimes for good reasons like program updates) BUT - the Mac OS X firewall is not watching your OUT-GOING traffic. It's only monitoring incoming traffic.

Like I said, USE COMMON SENSE. AND BY ALL MEANS DON'T GET COMPLACENT - if you do, you're asking for it.