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I guess Redmond DID get their photocopiers ready....

Hey, what about comparing a Walkman c. 1980 to my iPod. Gee, the iPod has a whole bunch of features the Walkman is missing.... Wonder why!?

MW: "already," as in, it's already too late for M$!

Transparrent windows are less usefull than initially seemed the case. Only now are Apple realising their potential in Tiger with semi-transparent control panel windows and dashboard in 10.4 - other than that they seem largely eye-candy.

This will be on M$ homepage shortly, I'm sure!!

http://news.com.com/Java+glitch+hits+OS+X+update/2100-1016_3-5675631.html?tag=nefd.top

They can't say it'll be fine to wait forever for Longvapour. Between now and end 2006 a lot of people will have made the switch.

It's all good publicity for Apple, so stay relaxed folks.

Do you suppose that some of these Longhorn "demonstrations" are really Windows "themes" applied to Mac OS X?

Jerry -

Transparent windows are exactly that -- eye candy -- and will be until the day Longhorn actually ships, when they will instantly become an important innovation designed to reduce eyestrain, increase productivity and enhance the user's computing experience.

By the time Patchers actually have a sort-of working copy of LongBore on their machines Mac users will be on to OS X 10.5!

Redmond will be in catch up mode forever!

MW: year, as in the year the tables turn on M$.

re: Follower (of many sheep)

one word:

CRAP.

I thought this was a very good article. It was very honest in mentioning Longhorn's proposed features that OS X has had for years, and it even pointed out that Longhorn is still a long way away.

As to comparing two products with very different release dates, while it doesn't seem to be the smartest thing to do, this isn't exactly the only time this happens. For example, analysts will compare the next version of gaming consoles for Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft, even though they won't be released in the same year. They are just giving a preview of the next step from what is current. In all actuality, Tiger is not the current OS quite yet. Even after Tiger ships, it is still not necessarily wrong to compare XP to Panther since both have been around for quite some time. And there may be many people that may be wondering if they should purchase the Mac with the Tiger OS or wait for Longhorn (just like people waited to buy the mini until Tiger was released - it was a question of can I live with Panther or do I want to wait for Tiger). Comparing Tiger to Longhorn isn't idiotic, in fact, I think it's complimentary by showing that Apple's current system is better than what MS can create years from now.

Now next year when/if Longhorn is released, will they compare Longhorn to Apple's next OS? Probably not, and much of that will be because Apple will have released very very few details about their next OS. If Apple talked more about their future products, then the media would probably compare those more often. So I think this writer did a good job and I wouldn't come down too hard on him.

Be prepared. This is just the beginning of a long campaign to convince people that Windows are as capable as Max OSX. Microsoft is planning to launch a TV campaign in that effect. If they can't show anything on a computer screen they will try to show it on TV screens.

That is what all this is about? So I can find my last file?

my 5 year old copy of W2000 does that just fine, thanks.

CNET has always been a major tool.... for MS.

King A,

Ina is a her.

the MS commericials running now about "potential" are enough to make me nauseous. they think that because they sell word to millions of people they are credited with making their lives better? What a crock! Come on Apple make iWork better, I need to get rid of word

It is so exciting to read all of the great press reports of the "soon to be released Longhorn".

The "real IT world" knows that the cutting edge technology that Microsoft is developing will change the future of desktop computing!

The new graphics core and file structure makes Longhorn the most advanced PC OS ever developed. The current releases of Longhorn all ready is years ahead of any offering from Apple and the OS is still in the development phase.

In the very near future the internet will be the exclusive home of Microsoft and Longhorn. Most developers of internet based e-commerence have embraced .NET and require that users must use IE. When Longhorn is distributed and .NET will make API calls locally and execute C# code the Apple OS will be relegated to non-internet use only.

Furthermore, the Apple OS is so slow... why would anyone want to use it. You type and the letters do not show up in real time, you resize a window and it does not move in real time. Apple has created an over-bloated eye candy machine that won't even be able to access most serious internet sites.

©

Hey Joe. How are you liking your mini? How much time do you find yourself on the various systems you have?

I am gonna hold off on my opinion on Tiger til I can actually try it out and use it. I hope they intro new PowerMacs soon tho, none of my current machines will be able to host multi-vidchats.

You know who is gonna love spotlight? My Mom. She is ALWAYS losing files when she saves them.

i'll tell you exactly how far this scenario will play out. Until mac releases os 10.5 and there's still no sign of longhorn.

Hey Sputnik, can I have some of what you are drinking/smoking/popping? Maybe it's cash that you get from MS that makes you delusional.

Either way, go back into your "real IT world" and believe what you want and enjoy the mess that MS creates for you. Turd.

looks like sputnik is a little out of touch with reality, eh?

don't feed the troll, kids

PITY FOR OUR PC FRIENDS

you must have understanding. Windoze users are used to updates every 3 years or so. They think Tiger WILL be the competitor to Longhorn.

...everyone relax, as soon as they see mac updates come more frequently then M$, then all this will stop.

Hmmm, Sputnik, eh? An appropriate name, methinks, for essentially useless technology representing itself as worldshaking FUD.

You speak of OS X and its "slowness" as if you actually HAVE a copy thereof running on a Mac for which it was designed. If you're the Wintel aficianado you claim to be, you wouldn't be caught dead with such a configuration, so I think we can all safely infer you're blowing smoke out your a** here. By the way, as a software developer I have a half dozen PCs running the highly vaunted XP/SP2 right now and they can BARELY boot up! WHY? Because they're OLD, don't possess enough memory to handle such bloatware, and spend half of their processing cycles looking for viruses, worms, Trojans, spyware, and the like. Talk about molasses (and it's not even pretty)!

The OS X reality handily trumps Longhorn fantasy, sir. Wake up, get used to it, and find some intelligent reason in your Neverland World!

"Now next year when/if Longhorn is released, will they compare Longhorn to Apple's next OS? Probably not, and much of that will be because Apple will have released very very few details about their next OS."

Mainly because Apple is innovating. You can bet that if Microsoft had ANY new features that Apple didn't have, they wouldn't be letting Apple know what they're going to be shooting for over the next 15 months. This is back to the old Microsoft that figures they can pull an Excel... remember Lotus 1,2,3? To keep people from buying it, they kept promising that the next version of Excel would do all the same things and more! That's all this is about. Microsoft wants to convince people that Longhorn will give them everything OSX 10.4 does PLUS the ethereal "more".

Microsoft's problem is that Apple is gaining marketshare faster than the rest of the market for the moment. If this continues, then negligible amount of people locked into using OSX for the next four years may become troublesome. They want to make sure those people still using 98 or 2000 who are in the market for a new computer purchase a PC so that they can run Longhorn over a year from now. Just the fact that they're promoting XP means that they no longer think they can just expect Wintel users to upgrade to another Wintel... Apple's hardware adoption rate frightens them.

I believe the Sputnik post was supposed to be humorous.

I have to agree w/ King A that the article was fair by making it clear that Longhorn was a long time from release. These articles are important in that MS release constant "info" on the new and upcoming software making most people think they should wait for it since it will have all these killer "features" when in fact they can buy Tiger in 10 days and get all of those plus much more.

the one feature I think Apple needs to talk about more is the native PDF support. It is so nice to have everyone be able to print to and view pdfs without extra software, I use it constantly.

The funniest thing to me, is that Apple will most likely be previewing (with a possible release 3 month later) 10.5 "Sabretooth" at MacWorld SanFran at about the same time Longtimegone is set to release with most of the "real innovations" removed. Then we will see some comparisons

"Furthermore, the Apple OS is so slow... why would anyone want to use it. You type and the letters do not show up in real time, you resize a window and it does not move in real time. Apple has created an over-bloated eye candy machine that won't even be able to access most serious internet sites."

Troll, troll everywhere a troll...

Sputnick's back!! Long time no see, buddy. Been busy re-installing SP2 and clearing out the spyware?

And remember...

Microsoft said that for Longhorn to run with all this eyecandy, the computer will need to be 'optimized' or essentially, pretty fast. If a PC user's machine isn't fast enough, they will have exactly what they've had for the past 3 years!

What is it that Joe-Sixpack wants? Eye-candy. That is what lures them to a new OS. (I know this emperically... show any PC user Expose or the Genie effect in OS X)

How disappointed are people gonna be when they find they will have most of the same look and feel of XP in Longhorn? Then again, Joe Sixpack doesn't usually upgrade their OS... they just buy a whole new computer.

Micro$in has done nothing but suppress technology and innovation. We are living in 1990 instead of 2005 because of monopoly, strong arming, and leveraging tactics to control something that they only manage to dabble in in the first place. Their goal is not innovation or even money...it is power and control. You should only get to control if you have the best product and the best solution(like the iPod), and with Micro$in, that is not the case. Stupid company taking advantage of stupid people. Good enough is not good enough!!
Now I see Adobe with possibly more leverage than anyone because they are the only major solution for anything visual on the internet. What is left? Frontpage? Freeway? Flash is soooo much an important factor for the future of web pages. Funny, flash originated from a great little Mac drawing program called Futurewave Smartsketch. It was awesome on OS 9 in its day. Amazing how things can take off.

I'm afraid Microsoft will rewrite history again.

"Furthermore, the Apple OS is so slow."

This point might not be so far from the truth.
If this rumor is correct, it's might disappointing for PowerMac lovers.

No PCI Express
No dual Core
No Blue-ray
Small speed bump

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504g5notes.html

Dual Core Operton anyone?

Sputnik's back! BTW, where's Ron?

"Virtual folders" have been on around at Apple all the way back to Copeland now almost 10 years ago It is totally disgusting of that MS spokesman to claim that "They just might have copied us," This was demostrated at the WWDC 10 years ago and we know that MS attended. A lot of these search technologies were in heavy development way back then at Apple. Why do you think Microsoft calls Apple "R&D;south campus"?

I am also impressed with Apple, Microsoft still has 1.5 years of development before its OS comes out. That is the total time of development for Tiger. Microsoft still has plenty of time to copy. Hopefully the next OS X will be ready when Longhorn finally arrives. Lets see, who's OS is better for quickly innovating on?

Microsoft is hating it... They won't have anything to answer Panther with, let alone Tiger, until more than 1.5 years from now... LOL

"''You can imagine videos on top of videos and even translucency,' said Jim Allchin, head of Microsoft's Windows unit. [...] Thanks, Jimmy, but we don't have to 'imagine' it, we've had translucency [...] shipping since September 2000."

Minor nit. I'm not sure we've had translucency and video. I could be wrong, though. If I remember correctly, it has to do with QuickTime 6.x built on top of QuickDraw. QuickTime 7, conversely, runs on Core Graphics so you can get all the cool effects (such as live resize, videos playing as they move to the dock, etc.) Personally, this is huge selling point for Tiger and one of the reasons I'll go buy it right off.

That said, I will be curious to see how many little gotchas like that we end up with in Longhorn...

Open a sticky note, drag and drop in a QuickTime movie, then Note -> Translucent Window...

BING!

Who cares if M$ copies Apple.

It just makes it easier for switchers to make the transformation.

Apple's Tiger might be 1.5 years ahead of PC's, but what about the hardware being 1.5 years behind?

I sure hope those rumours at ThinkSecret are bullsh*t.

considering Think Secret is correct about 80% of the time, i'd say the odds are in favor of the "rumor" being true.

"Mac OS X 'Tiger' should be compared to what's available from other vendors. In Microsoft's case, that would be Windows XP SP2"

Thurott did exactly that He said that Service Pack 2 offered more new stuff than Tiger does

Longhorn isn't vaporware!

Remember, Microsoft announced Windows months before Apple released the Macintosh in Jan of 1984. Sure, it took Microsoft a couple of years to release Windows 286; but who will argue that it wasn't worth the wait? Windows 286 was in color back when the Macintosh only had Black and White.

It's a safe better that Longhorn will also be superior to Tiger. I'll bet Tiger still doesn't have anything to match Solitare and Freecell.

I've got to say -- I hate this web site. It's just a troll magnet, in addition to being some sort of wierd ode to tiny type. Plus, most of the comments here are a mixture of mis & dis information. It's sad, I've got to say.

Really, anybody can post here that they consider Win XP to be the greatest thing since canned beer, but really, if you believe that, you have deluded yourself. Windows XP is the land where spyware roams, where your TCP/IP stack is hoplessly corrupted . . .

Longhorn V1.0 will likely be a Piece of garbage - what program has MS done well in version 1.0? I can't remember any - I believe Longhorn 3.1 will be pretty good though so patchers will likely have to wait at least five years to get something decent.

I find it odd that the article is comparing a finalized but unreleased OS against an OS that is still in development. How utterly useless! More interesting to wait 10 days and compare Mac OS 10.4 to Windows XP SP2. Later, when Longhorn finally ships, we can compare it to Mac OS 10.5. LOL

"Comparing Mac OS X 'Tiger' to vapor from other companies is patently idiotic and seems to us to be the only method Wintel-centric media outlets have left by which to continue prop up the Wintel hegemony"

WHOA! That's some pent up anger right there!!! Chill out! You call THIS news reporting?

Longhorn is not vaporware. I love the Mac, but Longhorn does seem like an improvement in many areas. To each his own. We all benefit. Longhorn will be out sooner than you think though, as MS did a thorough clean-up of the scheduling mess. Stop hating!

"What program has MS done well in version 1.0?"

Not many, but there are some (products/software). Xbox, Windows Media Center come to mind. They're pretty hot.

Actually Bill, to call the xBox a product that was "done well in version 1.0" doesn't hold much water. I've heard several anecdotes about non-functioning xBoxes on display at WalMarts, DVD drives that constantly died and needed servicing/replacement, and then there's that whole mess ith that power cord recall that didn't solve the overheating issue and lulled unsuspecting users into a false sense of security (info here - http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000870036868/).

The M$ kool aid must have some kind of additive that hopelessly keeps some people hooked, even if the beverage itself tastes like urine. Need detox? go cold turkey and take 1 Mac Mini. Dr's orders

MDN magic word = "run" (no comment.)

I thought it was an informative article...allegiance to a system aside, you have to recognize some realities: Windows has its user-base while Macintosh has its own...why fret over it, Microsoft comes out with an Operating System every 3 years or so and provides free upgrades + other free things to help users out...Apple increments its OS every year charging users for each upgrade...two competing models...guess which one works!

If Apple had actually written its operating system instead of borrowing a UNIX core (the real hard stuff to write), we probably would have to wait until 2010 to see the fancy transparent windows in MacOS.

Mike Barros says:
"If Apple had actually written its operating system instead of borrowing a UNIX core (the real hard stuff to write), we probably would have to wait until 2010 to see the fancy transparent windows in MacOS."

That's right, cores are projects unto themselves. There have been three cores over the past 25 years that have amounted to anything: DOS, MacOS and UNIX. For robustness and ruggedness UNIX has clearly been the superior system. Now Microsoft is going to hammer us over the head with their new core saying it's an improvement over everything that ever has been. I think it's just an improvement over DOS. But because Microsoft has everyone's mind it will be easy for them to convince you that it's the greatest thing since the wheel.

They've been successful at rewriting history before. Let's see if they can pull it off again this time.

Mike Barros says:
"If Apple had actually written its operating system instead of borrowing a UNIX core (the real hard stuff to write), we probably would have to wait until 2010 to see the fancy transparent windows in MacOS."

That's right, cores are projects unto themselves. There have been three cores over the past 25 years that have amounted to anything: DOS, MacOS and UNIX. For robustness and ruggedness UNIX has clearly been the superior system. Now Microsoft is going to hammer us over the head with their new core saying it's an improvement over everything that ever has been. I think it's just an improvement over DOS. But because Microsoft has everyone's mind it will be easy for them to convince you that it's the greatest thing since the wheel.

They've been successful at rewriting history before. Let's see if they can pull it off again this time.

-------------------------

I admit DOS sucked (although it served well in its time) and Win95-98-Me sucked BAD! But you can't just ignore Win NT->2000->XP->2003-> (soon to be) Longhorn. I think it's fair to say that it's a pretty successful core. Remember, David Cutler who designed VMS (an industrial strength OS) while working at DEC was the main designer and partially wrote NT, and I think it's fair to say he's no slouch.

Most of the security problems that plague Windows come from crap (ActiveX, even IE) that MS planted in a hurry on top of a good core. Everyone knows MS arrived late to the Internet world so many early design decisions were made in a hurry and weren't properly thought out. They had to move fast. Unfortunately, those decisions had nasty repercussions.

In terms of stability, I bet 90% of Windows' problems come from badly written device drivers. It doesn't matter how good the OS core is; if you have a buggy kernel mode device driver the system will crash, period. Performance seems to be the main concern in writing drivers instead of stability (in graphics cards, for sure), so there's consequences. Also, Windows has to deal with tons of different hardware from hundreds of manufacturers, so problems are bound to exist. Having said that, I find XP a very stable OS, it never ever crashes on me.

In a world where 15 years ago you had special video card drivers for use with AutoCAD, I'm glad that someone came up and standardized a lot of stuff in the software/hardware landscape. That someone just happened to be MS, whether Apple fans like it or not. Personally, I wouldn't give a shit if it were Apple instead, as long as things worked. What I do know, is that this industry needs a strong leader and that leader is unquestionably Microsoft.