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Nobody seems to care about the environmental benefits, or rather the disadvantages of bundling all those unused cables.
I think the best solution as someone suggested is a cable swap-over program. It is just wrong to bundle 2 cables with a product when 1 will do, and packaging each product with 2 versions depending on cable would not be practical either.
The dual cable is plain ugly too IMHO

I am also surprised the analysts have not realised the millions of $$$$ of extra Margin this will generate across the iPod line. This move makes the most business sense and will help Apple maintain their lead and growth in the market.

And no, bundling the dual cable with iPods is not an option. It's god-aweful ugly and both Ives and Jobs would find it blasphemous to bundle it with the beautiful iPod.

"Duh... my iPod doesn't have a Firewire cable for the socket on my Mac... urrrrr - I'd better buy a new Mac so I can use the USB2 cable then."

"Duh... my front door doesn't close... urrrr - I'd better buy a new house"

Gawd, why do we constantly give the PC world material to make jokes about us?!?

Serious pansies on this board...

An Apple eMac customer of 1 year ago is now a second class citizen for the Apple iPod.

When you people realize the iPod is it's own product and not a Macintosh peripheral, you'll be far better off.

An Apple eMac customer of 1 year ago is now a second class citizen for the Apple iPod. If you're happy with a company that treats its customers like that, then no firewire cable won't bother you. I'm not happy with a company like that.

until someone tries to swap cables at the point of sale and gets denied this issue has run its course.

New show of hands, how many opponents of Apple's decision have firewire cables in their homes right now? I'll go first again.

For this reason i am less concerned about this issue than i might otherwise have been. So long as they keep the dock connector the same i will be fine for any future iPod i buy. Same goes for the dock (although the 4G is a little wobbly in there, Enderle would freak out because of the hazard it would pose in case of an earthquake).

How long until the whole non mini line of iPods goes colour? Before or after Paris? A colour 30Gig iPod for $299 sounds good to me.

they're both Apple products. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about them so much here.

If your sense of self relative to having $20 less in your pocket than the guy next to you is of your utmost concern, you don't have any business buying an iPod to begin with.

rageous,

Well said.

eMac owners? If you could only afford the eMac, then I don't imagine a $300 iPod is in your budget. By definition, the eMac owner is the lowest rung of the Apple computer ladder. That is just a plain fact.

cough*MacMini*cough

every Mac mini ever made has USB 2.0

touché

wait ... so does every eMac. What are we arguing about?

oops. you said ever. sorry.

/uninterested in this argument

This entire argument boils down to people with an eMac older than one year or any other Mac older than 18 months being upset that their total cost of ownersip for their Mac + new iPod is now $20 more than they expected.

Big. Fscking. Deal.

I just bought the 30gb iPod Photo. It indeed came with USB cable, but also the outlet plug was USB.

I have built up fireWire infrastructure (hubs and hard drives) on my 15 FP imac that does not have USB 2.0 I am disappointed I will not make use of this cable except to charge the iPod with the outlet plug. I have several other iPods in my household as well as friends that have iPods and was hopeful the plug would be firewire that way I can add to my arsenal - place the outplet plug in another room where I can take any iPod with a fireWire cable and charge at any of the locations, but now this dream is broken.
I prefer they sell me the iPod alone at $329 and sell me a cable outlet combo for $20 ( fw or USB ) or sell the iPod alone for 349 and give the cable of choice in a seperate box, however I would be frustrated if they said yes we have iPods, but are out of cables.
Or even more frustrated to buy a 350$ ipod with USB and plug into iMac with USB1.1 and be slow as a dog and if I were computer illiterate I would blame the iPod for being so dog slow.

new subject...
The iPod photo camera connector WILL allow you to view photos immediately after importing them to the iPod and it will also work with older iPod photos. Good news that I don't think anyone will find a reason to argue with.

http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=910

Simplest solution: NO cable. When you get your iPod they ask - USB or FW and give you the relevant cable

Apple should add an Asterix to the iPod Box.

PC+Mac*

*Note: Only newer Macs will be fully compatible, and if you're using anything older than the very most recent OS, 10.3.4 of Panther... then too bad for you... you're stuck on USB1. Sorry Mac-fans, PCs are faster in this case.

There was no asterix telling PC users their iPod would not even work out of the box as bundled just 2 days ago. At least now it'll work across the board as packaged, even if not as blazing fast as every speed freak decreed was necessary.

Has anyone even tried this combo cable - Isn't it wired so that the power comes from the firewire connector and the syncing comes from the usb side? I don't think the syncing would work with just the firewire side plugged into your mac... Anybody try this?

kerrazyjoe, if you have several iPods, you have several firewire cables. If the iPods have dock connectors, any of them can charge from the USB cable/charger. I don't see the problem integrating your new iPod with your current system.

Everybody needs to quit whining about this. I hope Apple sells a kajillion iPods and even more music. The halo effect switchers will eventually lead to increased Mac marketshare. Isn't that the goal?

Uh there are margin issues because mjost PC users don't have firewire.. you think apple didn't do market research before making the decision?it's a shame they did it but.. they got to drop the price by 50 bucks.. they also pulled out the wall plug..

you know why? cuz hardly anyone uses the wall plug..

this is a great deal.

two things that MOST ppl don't use get taken out and the price comes down.. perfect.

The new iPods have become USB 2.0 devices. If you don't like it buy a used iPod on Ebay or buy a FW cable or update your computer. You could always buy a Dell DJ and switch to Windows. There are many options.

Quitcher bitchin'.

mike,

Don't pc's currently have to use the adapter hooked to the firewire end and sync through USB. I don't think that older iPods charged through USB - am I right??

iPods no longer come with power bricks either.... hmm, how much of the iPod do you think Apple will leave out of the box before they decide to perhaps cut their margins instead ?

I know we should be used to being treated like a minority by now, but when it is Apple that is doing the stomping it kinda rankless a bit more than usual.

They don't include power bricks because the new iPods CHARGE through USB and the previous ones did not....

Some other guy named Peter beat me to the post...

The beef I have about it is that Apple has always been about the "out-of-box" experience. This creates a poor experience for Mac users.

For example: Last year, I bought an Apple iBook. This year, I buy an Apple iPod. So I go to the Apple store, plunk down my $199, and come home just brimming with anticipation over my brand new Apple iPod. I go to hook it up to my Apple iBook and discover...

It doesn't work. It's slow. It won't charge. Whatever the effect is of trying to plug in a USB 2.0 cable to an iBook, I don't know. But it certainly won't be the great experience I've come to expect from Apple.

So I'll end up taking the whole thing back to the Apple Store to ask "Why doesn't this stupid thing work?" And after being told I need some kind of other weird cable that Apple didn't include so that I can hook one piece of Apple Equipment up to another piece of Apple Equipment, I'm going to be some disgusted with Apple. Hell, even HP realizes that consumers expect their HP cameras to work flawlessly with the HP computers!

I suppose this is what happens now that there is a separate iPod Division at Apple. "Oh, we don't need to worry about those Mac guys..."

Stop whinning you all and just buy a FW cable for 18 bucks!!! BTW Some Young Gai, do you like Thai food?

Give it a rest MDN, you're giving this topic way too much play time. Why don't you set up a separate MacDailyWhineAboutNoFireWireCableWithiPod.com web site to cater to all the people who want to complain about this every day.

Talk about beating a dead horse.
--
Magic word: nuclear. "You'd think Apple sold Iran a nuclear weapon with all the coverage MDN is giving to the missing FireWire cable deal."

Since the majority of iPods are sold to Windows users and there is limited implementation of Firewire connections on Wintel boxes, it makes sense to ship with USB as the standard. USB connections are the same across all platforms, whether they are USB 1 or 2.

Also, most PC (especially laptops) that even have a Firewire port, generally use the mini 4-pin connector which does not provide power -- only the 6-pin implementation provides power. Imaging the number of support calls to Apple, from people trying to figure out where to plug in their Firewire connection, when they didn't even have one.

By shipping a USB-only cable, Apple has ensured they have a single cable, compatible with both Mac and PC platforms and shaved a little off their cost.

Also, the new power supply/charger also looks like it has a USB connector... so no matter whether you prefer Firewire or USB, you will still need the USB cable to connect to your charger (if you get one).

Let's face it, spending the extra $20 for a Firewire cable isn't the worst thing in the world, but it is a bit of a hassle for those with older machines.

Firewire is better. Apple invented Firewire. All newer Macs have firewire. They should let users have the choice of what they want or include the combo cable. This is costing Apple much more in bad publicity that the cables would cost. They, more than anybody, should realize that Mac Users often have to find more involved or costlier solutions because of being in the minority and the LAST place we should expect this kind of solution from is Apple.

It's not the money, it's the principle of the thing.

This is not an issue. Move along, ya look-e-loos. There's nothing to see here.

I have about twelve Firewire cables in my closet, of various lengths and colors, that have shipped with the various hard disks, iSights, iPods, camcorders, scanners, and other devices I've bought over the past few years. If I REALLY needed to use one, I would. I wouldn't spend $20 to get one. Unless I were on crack. Which I'm not.

Here's a serious question for those of you bemoaningly nitpicking this oh-so-uninteresting packaging decision: Does even ONE of you whiners NOT have an extra Firewire cable and not know ONE person who does? Or are you all just wasting your breath and our time for the sake of some poor pathetic hypothetical Others who might be in that position, if they exist?

The MDN Magic Word is "ill." Say no more.

Oh never mind, Jack just answered this for me. It's "the principle of the thing."

Man when cable packaging decisions like this pass for Principles, I'm sure sorry I wasted all that time in college philosophy classes talking about the Divine Rights of Kings and other esoteric ethical enigmata.

Oy, I might add.

I don't want no USB 2.0 on my iPod... I want real progress. Give me FW 800 on my iMac and my iPod.

Why isn't Apple breaking new ground here instead of following the pack??

Sum Yung Gai,

Try to hook up one of those Firewire cables from your closet into your iPod.....Doesn't fit does it? Guess you will shell out that nice crisp $20 bill

Hee Hee

MacDailyNews Take: For our Windows-only using friends, information on smoothly adding more Mac OS X stories to your arsenal of 'cranky-Apple-users' jokes can be found here.

Give 'em enough wire eh?

Is anyone else tired of this argument?

They're trying to change a policy here, not bend-over and take it. Go for it, I say!

I can remember when 2400 bps was a fast speed. Quit your whining! Kinda sad that Apple killed firewire on the new iPod, but... what you gonna do? Are we really that obsessed with speed that you'd rather spend 20 dollars on top of you purchase, to get 10 seconds faster responce?

I disagree. I think Apple should offer two different versions: one for PC and Mac while the other for Mac only.

Anything Mac users want, Apple does the opposite. Go ahead, keep askin' for this mythical combo cable. If you keep digging that hole deep enough you might be able to squeeze your coffin in it...

Al said:
"The new iPods have become USB 2.0 devices."

Uuuuhh, no. They have been USB 2.0 devices for a while now. The new iPods are STILL Firewire devices as well. Nothing with the iPod has changed in this area! The dock connector is still there an functions the same way.

It's purely a CABLE issue.

Anyone wanna guess what the ratio of buyers has been lately, I mean PC:Mac?

I think you might find that the combo cable has a power-only firewire cable attached, it has no data connectors. There are plenty of power-only cables on the market too.

What apple needs is a true combo cable with data and power available from either port. then again if they can do that why not just include 2 cables...

What Apple needs to do is listen to its market. And clearly the whining "I wanna FireWire cable for free even though the price dropped $50 and Apple added more useful features" crowd isn't large enough for Apple to bother with.

Folks have said that PC owners are paying less than Mac owners now. NOT TRUE. Only Mac owners who do not have USB 2.0 may pay more. Imagine, our "lowly" PC friends are "stuck" with USB 2.0 transfer speeds. And now some of you are whining you're getting shivved because for $20 you can get real fast transfer speeds by picking up a cable instead of having to upgrade your computer.

PowerBooks and PowerMacs have 10/100/1000bT ethernet ports. To get GbE speeds you need the proper cable and switch with which to connect. If you want faster networking, buy faster networking gear.

If you want faster music syncing, buy the $18 cable. It isn't as if Apple raised the price on their offerings and made you spend more to get what you could last week.

Why aren't folks up in arms about outlet charging? You have to pay more for that now? I guess there weren't enough folks who bothered to use it. So Apple dropped it.

Big deal. Buy the cable. You still spend less than last week and get more in the bargain as a whole.

YES! Add a firewire Cable to EVERY iPod box... oh, would you like your firewire cable with the iPod Shuffle too?

"Apple, you are so stupid... you did not include firewire on your iPod Shuffle." Why hasn't some fool started that petition yet?

I swear; Apple could give out 20.00 bills and you people would bitch that it was not 50.00 or 100.00.

The Dude is getting sick of this BS at MDN.

How about bitching about no power cube to recharge the iPod?

And don't say use your computer, not all of us carry around laptops.

Zupchuck, The Dude, Rageous, et. al.

I finally understand it. You don't understand the otherside of the argument. You are either unable to or unwilling to. Ohterwise you wouldn't keep bringing up the same arguments like -- it's cheaper now then it was a week ago, so quit your whinning. Also, you'd know that your ethernet example is a completely different thing. And since you don't understand the otherside, I would expect your reply to the previous two examples to be: 1. The change in price from last week to this week is relevant. 2. The ethernet example is the same thing.
However you're not alone. The people pissed about the power brick don't understand it either. Your arguments work against those people.

b,

Sorry, I guess I don't understand why it is a problem when a company improves a product, lowers the price, and separates out components as an accessory for the small minority of users that might want them for the majority of users who find them useless.

Even when you buy the accessories that you want/need it is still less expensive than before. Oh horror!

So, for the PC and Mac users with USB 2.0 this is truly a "so what" thing. For folks who want the optimal experience, buy the cable. For folks who don't have USB 2.0, buy the cable.

I guess you'd be unhappy if a car manufacturer (BMW just for kicks) had a car with all the options - including seat warmers, mirror defrosters, winter battery, special all-season snow tires and charged $50K for it.

You live in Florida (just for example).

These items are useless to you.

Next year, BWM charges $40K for the car. It is more fuel efficient and powerful. But, they make the options I alluded to earlier additional cost items. They cost $5K total. If you wanted this same car, it would now cost you $45K - $5K less than last year.

But you complain. You need the snow tires which cost $18 to be included free. And your friends who have PCs don't need (can't use) these special snow tires. And you are mad because even though the special tires let your BWM go faster and handle better, you have to spend $18 more for a better experience than will.

What to do? But last year's $50K BMW? Complain? Or buy the tires and enjoy your BMW more than the PC guy.

If you are so concerned about the price of the option, perhaps BMW (iPod) isn't what you need? Get the iPod shuffle, it plugs into a USB port and needs no cable.

Now going forward from 18 months ago to the future - anybody who bought a Mac (even an eMac) has USB 2.0. How many of these people will pick up a FireWire cable because it is faster to sync?

I DO DO DO understand the other side of the argument. It would be relevant if the end result was that the new product cost less and had less than before. It isn't like you bought a candy bar that was 8oz last week and now 7oz but cost the same. You now have two choices - 7oz or 8oz and both cost less than last week's 8oz bar.

For those who want less, there's the 7oz bar. For those who still need 8oz, it is still there and it costs less than before.

The whole arguement is about $$$$. Well, you're spending less $$$$ for more product now. And you're mad that somebody can get away with spending a measly $18 less than you and enjoy almost as good an experience.

You think you understand the other side, but you don't. The BWM analogy doesn't work. And guess what? People pay more for winter packages. I have no problem with that. The car-computer analogies almost never work. I'll try again:

I understand Apple's move and I agree with it. I just think, as others do, that it was done too early!

I feel, and this is my opinion, that Apple should take a little better care of their mac customers from the previous 2 to 3 years. You feel they shouldn't. I understand that not including the firewire cable is better for the bottom line, perhaps even better for the majority of recent (3 or less years) pc buyers and the even minority of recent (3 or less years) mac buyers.

From the MDN take above -- "If you want to switch iPod over to USB 2.0, that's fine, but perhaps you should wait until the majority of Mac owners have realistically had a chance to acquire USB 2.0 capable Macs?"

I think their position is clear, and I agree with them.

Others feel that it was wrong to drop firewire since they feel Apple should keep pushing firewire (arguably superior) over usb2 (this is the reason Apple chose not to include usb2 for so long on macs). I'm not in that crowd.