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Apple is fscking up due to their GREED. It is clear that Apple is mistreating Mac users here in favor of Wintel PC users. A Mac user scorned can be quite a dangerous animal. Be very afraid, Apple. Apple needs to reconsider and fix this obvious mistake ASAP.

I read through this posting for about 4 minutes before I realized that I'm sad and pathetic for spending 4 minutes reading about a wire.

Any news is fightin' news for the Mac geek.

...and another thing. having two cords in the box just makes the product more complex. 1 ipod, 1 cd, 1 cord. Simple.

That's why they have a 1 button mouse. Even though 2 is more pratical (in my opinion. I don't complain when have to go out and by my Kensington.

It's likely that FW800 would not result in faster transfers anyway. Those little drives ain't that fast.

So the Shuffle was the beginning of "the end?"

Flash memory can't transfer even AS fast as USB 2.0. So Firewire would have no advantage. Straight from Apple (Phil S. or somebody) re why the Shuffle takes more time to transfer one song.

What is the big friggin deal!!?? Did anybody notice that the iPods are cheaper?? And thinner?? The iPod does NOT need two connection options. Maybe... just maybe it was a purely business decision to cut overall costs?? And let's not kid ourselves EVERY friggin computer now has some form of USB.

Get over yourselves people this isn't about "screwing Mac users."

i bet you the "switch" to USB 2 has something to do with camera sync. AFAIK there is no CONSUMER digital still camera available that has FireWire. I believe that even the majority of pro digital cameras also have USB 2. FireWire is very good for transferring audio at a sustained rate, and for video transfers, which requires a stable throughput ( an area where USB2 sucks ), but for iTunes to iPod transfers, USB2 is fine.

Trust me, as long as there is iMovie, FCE, FCP, Shake, and Logic, Apple will not give up on FireWire.

I love how DudeMac implies that installing a FireWire card is just as simple and easy as buying a FireWire cable. ROTFLMAO.

Yeah, Dudemac is a moron.

Btw, the 1.8" drives in the iPod is well below the speed of USB2 or FireWire.

The way I see it, most computers have USB 2.0. Macs have been offering USB 2.0 for the last few years. As long as USB 2.0 works just as well for transferring songs, why should anyone care?

I love my Macs and suggest them to many of my friends, but you have to know where to draw the line. I mean, please stop, take emotions out of the picture, and ask yourself:

- Does it REALLY matter?
- Aren't there bigger issues out to spend your energy on?

Scoo

Jumping Christ in on a Pogo Stick, who CARES!

Don't you people have more productive ways to spend your lives than playing armchair CEO and second-guessing every nitpicky little decision that Apple makes?

"Oh good god, I'm up in arms because one of the pixels on the little Apple icon in the menu bar looks like it was rendered premultiplied but composited with straight alpha!"

"Oooh, this little Apple device uses a serial connector that is only twice as fast as I need, rather than three times as fast as I need. Please let's all sue Steve Jobs and his evil minions."

Three words, Sheeple: Get. A. Life.

A nice gesture would be to offer a swap to those who want Firewire. Only those who know the difference would care to complain about it and getting the desired cable would be the adequate solution to the complaint. It is worth walking into your Apple store with your packaged USB cable and asking for a trade.

mike k.:

As stated before, USB2 is plenty fast enough for iPod transfers, despite FireWire's technical superiority. In fact, I'll bet you that , because of the slow drive in the iPod, FireWire transfer is no faster than USB2 transfer. Don't assume that just because FireWire is the faster bus, that the transfer itself will be faster.

USB 2.0 vs. Firewire? Not the issue. I bought 500 shares at $19.56. It’s now at $87.96. That's the issue. USB is not a compromise, its smart business. Thank you Mr. Jobs. I love my Mac. Now I even have a little extra cash for the new PowerBook.

Reis,

I know the feeling...500 at $14. Ain't it sweet? Go Steve!

Why a half measure, if the idea is to lower the cost of iPod products - then remove BOTH cables.

Offer ALL models with no cables (zero) .

Have the customer purchase which is appropriate for their needs ON purchase of the iPod product. The retailers/orderhouses will either be efficient with their supplies, or lose out to those that are.

Maybe what's bothering the Mac customers - or atleast those that prefer FireWire - is that they still must pay for the included USB2 cable - that they CHOOSE not to use (or can't use), and then have to pay EXTRA to use their CHOICE (or ONLY option) of a FireWire cable.

How many here enjoyed buying a USB cable for their inkjet printers, when a serial/parallel cable was INCLUDED in the price? Exactly!

This is inefficient. Remove both cables.

MacBuddy has said it best. No one should be penalized because they can't support the other peripheral!

1) Either both cables come as standard
2) Neither cable comes as standard
3) Make either cable an option at purchase time

Most Macs don't have USB 2, so most Mac users would have to buy the FW cable, which sucks, especially since PC users can easily buy a $20 FireWire PCI card and install that. PCI cards are worth $20 bucks, peripheral cables however are not worth $20 bucks. If Apple sold them for $5 bucks, then no one would complain, though free would be better.

The replies here are indicative that Apple could not have pleased all its users all of the time. I for one have an extra USB cable that came with my mini that I would rather have had the cost savings. Apple is making financial decissions to stay ahead. The actually quality of the product did not go down nor really the cost per items included. The just offered the unit with or without charger.cable. It is a shell game, the pea is STIIL under one of the shells, just not the one you thought.

Apple was one of the first to use USB and of course pioneered Firewire. However, now all new Macs ship with USB 2.0, I think Apple is trying to push old Mac users to new Macs. Apple appears to be saying that USB is for general equipment and that firewire is for specialized equipment, video and external drives.

Well we'll see if Apple puts firewire 800 in there entire lineup and eliminate Firewire 400. I think that is what they will do next.

"Apple appears to be saying that USB is for general equipment and that firewire is for specialized equipment, video and external drives."

Er, stingerman, iPods are external drives, either hard drives or flash drives.

Apple screwed the pooch (and loyal Mac users) on this one.

all i have to say is that I will never, ever, ever update my ipod or mini using USB 2.0 instead of firewire. USB 2.0 is significantly slower and less reliable than firewire, I don't care what the "specs" say and I don't care how many PC fanboys post otherwise.

that said i think it's fine that apple quit shipping 2 cables in every ipod box, that always seemed like a needless enviornmental hazard anyway, how many hundreds of thousands of FW/USB cables got thrown in the trash due to being redundant.

what Apple should do is offer Mac users a free firewire cable if they request it at time of purchase, or at least have them availabe for a nominal fee of $5 or $10.

With the $150 price reduction of iPod Photo models, you can buy a new fireware cable. They didn't drop firewire support - you use your prexisting firewire cable or buy one for $20.
And the $50 price drop on the 4Gb mini more than covers the cost of a new cable.

I much prefer the 1 iPod, 1 cable simplicity. If both cables still came in the box I'd probably use firewire. But USB 2.0 works well for this application, and the firewire speed advantage isn't worth $20 to me.

The worst thing is that you cannot boot into OSX from usb, but you can from firewire.

[how many hundreds of thousands of FW/USB cables got thrown in the trash due to being redundant.]

Zzz...,

Not to single you out. But, don't people keep all the paraphenalia that came with their iPods considering the RESALE value of doing so.

If 'I' throw out my never-to-be-used USB2 cable, then I can ONLY sell my used iPod to a FireWire owner! That's dumb.

89% of computer owners apparently use USB2.

This logic should extend to keeping BOTH cables, no?

And Apple - in an effort to reduce costs - should NOT include either cable.

MDN MagicWord: planning. I'm planning on keeping my useless USB2 cable to increase my chances of selling my used iPod.

Considering the positioning of nearly every firewire and usb port on every machine out there, Apple is overlooking a major point. Firewire is easier to plug in than USb when the person is not looking directly at it. EG. reaching around the back you cant often see the port, one would find FW much easier to plug in since its not symmetrical.

Apple give-ith, and Apple take-ith away. Too bad Mac users are no longer Apple's target customer. You guys might bash PC users but now they are the one's that keep Apple going. Cold hard fact...

Firewire is for daisy-chaining peer-to-peer networking. USB is for host-to-peripheral networking. The iPod can't be daisy-chained and it acts like a peripheral to the Mac.

Apple still has big plans for firewire but it has to do with AV networking, not peripheral to host connections.

What was that bit about mapped function key on Mac and Windows key?!?

I agree with what MacBuddy and DudeMac:

"MacBuddy has said it best. No one should be penalized because they can't support the other peripheral!

1) Either both cables come as standard
2) Neither cable comes as standard
3) Make either cable an option at purchase time"

Like I said in the other article about the minis, I think this is a TERRIBLE mistake: USB 2 is ungodly slow compared to FW, plus it sucks down a huge amount of processor cycles to work (and I'm running on a dual 2.5 GHz machine!).

Apple is, IMHO, making a terrible mistake here trying to shave a few $$ off the price and appeal to Windblows customers. Booo!

this may have been said, I didn't read all the comments, but the reason the shuffle doesn't have FireWire is it is 1/2 and 1 GB, not anything that USB 1.1 can't handle...

I just came to your website to read an article. One of your sleazier advertisers has figured out how to bring up a popunder They're hawking "spyware protection" and tell me I have problems on my C: drive. Funny, my Mac doesn't have a C: drive.

You ought to be more selective about your advertisers.

Didn't Apple originally force Windows users to buy the USB cable separately?

Just wanted to bring that up.

Stereo audio tranfers really don't require more than what USB has to offer and let's not forget that Apple pushed the acceptance of USB over slower serial and parallel connectivity with the introduction of the iMac.

Firewire 800 will be ideal for transferring higher quality multimedia content. I'm sure when the time is right, this successor to the original firewire protocol will again place Apple's technological advantages to the forefront. The real question would be what type of device would Apple create with a high lust factor that would start out as Mac only which would require a faster transfer rate than what USB 2.0 has to offer? The thing is only the Prosumer/Professional Macs come with Firewire 800 as standard.

OK, so Apple wanted to change the iPod's icon as an elite machine and approach the least common denominator regarding financial ability and computing culture. Just because it saw that it was in a good position to pull a Dell out of it and compete with iRiver, Creative and the odd noname players.
One of iPod's advantages over the competition is the superior connectivity of Firewire that Apple used to support and impose. IIRC it was the lack of compromises in architecture, design and performance that sold millions of iPods up today, not just ITMS. And that iPod's success history is what is going to drive iShuffle sales. If you bring down the coolness and superiority of the hign end devices, iShuffle sales are going to take a hit because at this market it is a war Apple can not win.

And I don't care if I sound emotional. I don't buy from a company that I feel it doesn't treat me as 1st class citizen. It's my money.

Can't we all just get along?

As a "switcher" I'm disappointed to see the strange way you Mac people take ownership in something you've NEVER had any say about in the past and will NEVER have any say about in the future.

Apple is a business, making THINGS for you to use. That's it. Nothing else. Buy their STUFF or buy someone else's STUFF.

I do however believe it's OK to be in love with your THINGS. After all I do love my Apple products. Keep up the good work Apple.

After an initial disappointment with the news that USB 2.0 was the new standard connection for iPods, I've since come to realize a few things:

1) The demographics tell us that it's the leading-edge Mac users buying iPods.. those that will eventually upgrade anyway, so they'll have a computer with USB 2.0 eventually. No harm there.

2) PCs are "recycled" more frequently, and USB 2.0 has become standard on most (except, ironically, not on the low-end PCs).

3) This paves the way for FW800 to become the new standard.. it's had to compete with FW400... no reason for two separate ports on our computers (since they have different connectors).

4) How many people have a need for two cables? Some do, but most don't. Cuts down on waste.

5) Would be nice for Apple to offer a choice, but many people buying iPods are PC users that don't have a clue, so why make it harder than it needs to be?

At the end of the day, the cost of adding an FW cable to a new iPod is still cheaper than buying an iPod a week ago that came with a FW cable in the box.

My disappointment has subsided.

I, too, am disappointed that Apple is giving up on firewire in this case. It's quite obvious that it's not going away; it's a superior technology for A/V work, as well as for fast, reliable external HDs.

Still, though, the age of USB 2.0 has just dawned in the Mac world recently. While it might be a pain to offer two different boxes (one with USB 2.0, one with firewire), and the inventory control would be much more difficult, I still think it should be some sort of option. I don't feel that we're by any means "entitled" to it, but it would be nice.

And what of the AC adapter? I'm assuming the one that comes with the standard iPod/Special Edition is still a firewire-based adapter, but what about the iPod Photo? It comes with a USB 2.0 cable and an AC adapter. Does the AC adapter now have a USB port on its back instead of a firewire one? Now, if we buy a firewire cable, do we have to buy an extra AC adapter to match the cable?

I can understand dropping to USB 2.0 on the Mini, and it's an obvious choice for the Shuffle. But if someone's going to spend $450 on an iPod Photo, one would think that having a FireWire card is pretty likely.

It would be interesting, though, to see the differences in transfer time specifically with USB 2.0 and FW on a Mini, standard iPod, and Photo. (Also tested on both a Mac and a PC, since the Mac's USB 2.0 implementation seems to leave a little to be desired).

While coming up with a sane response to Apple regarding the recent iPod decision, I poked out this. Read it thru' - you may actually approve


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It's been suggested that 80% of iPod owners are throwing out their FireWire cables. That would mean that 20% of iPod owners are throwing out their USB-2 cables.

The public are being told that Apple is reducing costs and passing on the savings to it's iPod customers by not including the less 'popular' FireWire cable.

Some folks have suggested, that Apple reduce the 'cost' a further $20. They think that this massive waste could be ended if customers could choose which is appropriate at the point of purchase. (Thinking, an outfit like BestBuy or FutureShop will acknowledge that most of their customers will need the USB-2 cable and correctly manage to have supplies that cover those customers. Conversely thinking, a Mac retailer will acknowledge that most of their customers will need the FireWire cable and correctly manage to have supplies that cover those customers.)

Many feel that as a consumer product - leaving out a connectivity cable would inconvenience ALL iPod customers.

I think that the difficulty that some of your Apple iPod customers (20%?) are having reconciling this decision, is that they are ALSO your Apple Mac customers. The delemma they see - is this is a decision that negatively effects their (Apple) computer product, not positively effects a consumer product - even an Apple one.

Leaving out the (superior, Apple) FireWire cable now - in favor of the USB-2 cable might be prudent IF most Mac users had USB-2. Currently, most don't. This probably would have been a non-issue if Apple had chosen to do this particular change 12-18 months from now.

As for today, do you think that a 'FireWire-for-USB2-Cable-Walk-in-and-Trade-in' program would work for your Mac customers that are also your iPod customers?