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Something is wrong.
Things are not going right in Apple land.
Disappointing MacWorld, then this hyped up announcement is just so, so much ado about nothing.

Overpriced minimacs - crap graphics. $100 buck cover for an iPod. $400 for a pair of speakers. Sheesh. No wonder Apple stock is dropping.

But still no viruses!!!

LOL

Man... this was one SERIOUSLY underwhelming presentation. I can't believe they are going with a built in graphics chipset. I really can't believe they've done this. And where's the front row with DVR capabilities? I mean, they hire the president of El Gato and they DON'T add EyeTV style recording capabilities to a box that is PERFECT for it. If there's ever been a perfect media PC, the Mini is approaching it and to come up short at this point in the game is really gonna hurt.

Re: Nick

Wireless isn't built into the Intel chipset, though the module is bundled in Intel's pricing on their website. The price difference between the T1300 set (1.67 Core Solo) and T2300 set (1.67 Core Duo) is only $32 at the non-discounted rate. BTW, the cost of the chipset and the wireless module apparently only makes up about $65 of the cost, so the wireless by itself is probably half of that. So Apple using a 1.5GHz (which is not even on Intel's list) and charging $200 more for the Duo is inexcusable. The price difference for the 60->80 hd and optical drive are fairly small and certainly don't make up the difference on the $200 increase. The whole mess is just price stratification, which annoys consumers.

http://intel.com/intel/finance/pricelist/index.htm

HAHAHAH...the POS has an crap intel integrated video. Look at its pitiful performance: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2427&p=1

Hey MDN, first viruses, now integrated video. It seems only yesterday you were laughing it up how only winblows boxes had integrated video. What do you have to say for yourself now???

WE WANT ANSWERS


here is the answer:

The integrated VGA is on the PCI express chain, pci express has direct access to the system ram, and the system ram being DDR2 is as fast or faster than most ram on most mid range video cards. therefore, ergo: the 'integrated' video on this platform is not that bad. the only downside is the fact that you are losing some system ram. solution: get at least 1GB ram... hell get 2GB.......

I love Apple as much as the next Apple-ite, but today's announcement was anemic at best. I think they may be drinking a little too much of their own Kool-Aid.

Shared-Memory-Graphis in a Mac is like a 3-cylinder-engine in a BMW - no fun!

What is the CoreDuo processor good for anyway with this crappy graphics?

The definitely best buy is a 17" iMac now.

You're all missing the point on the Mac Mini, it's aimed at technophobes. So look at it from that perspective and it looks pretty good. Me thinks this will fly of the shelves.

"Huh":

integrated graphics suck because

1) way slower than any other graphics solution
2) they gobble up your main memory.

<i>Huh - "Ignorant question:
What's the deal with integrated video whatchamacallit? Why's that so bad? This is a sincere question."

NOT an ignorant question. Integrated video uses system RAM instead of dedicated RAM that is on a card. Therefore, it's eating up memory on you - basically with either of these two models a memory upgrade is probably nescessary and that means more $$.

I noticed that Apple didn't push out the delivery dates of the mini's before the announcement. They are getting wiser to the clues of thier new product releases...

People... GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS!

The MacMini WILL NEVER HAVE BUILT IN DVR FUNCTIONS...

Apple is in the business of SELLING TV CONTENT on the iTMS.

They'd be pissing off a lot of network partners and shooting themselves in the foot if they introduced a Mac that records free tv content, while they are trying to sell that same content at the iTMS for $1.99 per episode..

A MacMini DVR WON"T HAPPEN!!

Get it???

NO... NOT... NEVER... GIVE IT UP ALREADY!

Apple stock is tanking on these announcements. Time to buy.

The only thing I find significant about this is the $100 increase.

Great that they moved to Intel, but I always thought the great thing about the mini was that it broke the $500 price barrier.

"."

Wow, $32 difference is even lower than I thought. I found that if I configured the 1.5Ghz Core Solo mini to be identical to the 1.67Ghz Core Duo, it was $100 difference at the Apple Store. So Apple is charging $100 extra for a $32 more expensive CPU, and justifying it by underclocking the 1.67Ghz Core Solo to 1.5Ghz.

I hate price stratification.

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm NOT buying one now. C'mon Apple, integrated video is cheesy crap.

Does this mean the iBook has a good chance of integrated video?

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INTEGRATED VIDEO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I truly hope I'm wrong but this doesn't bode well for the revamped iBook wrt integrated graphics.

Just went to the site and spec'd one out -

Core Duo model, added: 1GB RAM, keyboard and mouse, and AppleCare - 1,126.00

Like I said, too close to the iMac 17"

And if you don't have a display.....there is no reason NOT to get a iMac 17"

4 times faster than what, an ipod? Intel Macs are a joke.

Is everyone forgetting about the speed gains of the new Mini's.

These processors are brand new technology and a minimum of twice the speed of the antiquated g4 chips... They also cost alot more to manufacture...

The price increase is no big deal.. for 100 bucks more you get.

1. Significant speed gains.
2. Front Row
3. Remote control
4. Bluetooth and airport standard.

The integrated graphics is a bit of a bummer, but this is not a hi end machine so it's really not a big deal..

With the HDI output, this is truly a media center... I'm with Aiden in that we will not see a Mac with built in DVR functions..

Overall, this a very nice upgrade.

Didn't the original Mac Minis have only 32 MB of VRAM, like the current iBooks? Seems to me, that given what the previous fellow said regarding PCI Express, this is in fact a graphics upgrade. More VRAM (32 is useless) and better memory interface. Not to mention we now have dual core processor that will add a decent speed boost a few months down the road with more Universal Binaries. That has to help performance as well. I think this is an improvement.

What a bunch of Fusking winers. I guess you should all switch to Dell now. After all you all know how to run a company better than the folks at Apple.

RE: integrated graphics

Problem is it eats up valuable RAM for video. The higher the resolution you want your screen to be, the more RAM you lose for other uses. When using Rosetta you need as much RAM as possible. Less RAM will significantly affect system performance.

Also, don't forget that CORE graphics and many cool eye candy that is built into the Quartz engine cannot be used. If Apple wants to wow technophonbes, you want the eye candy.

The Intel Chipset is not as fast as other chipsets like the ATI. There is also poor graphics performance which limits what resolution and image quality you can run games. This may not be important to mac users initially, however, to PC users who crave games, it may be. Also, I do not know if the Intel CPU and the graphics chipset can do 1080p, or 1080i. This is important to know if you want to attach it to your nice plasma TV and get a decent resolution. Currently, the G4 mini can't do 720p.

I don't think gamers should, in general, be using Mac Minis.

The mini can do CORE graphics

according to a footnote on the Apple website, "The Intel GMA950 graphics supports Tiger Core Graphics and the latest 3D games. "

They really didn't need a media event for this. I think it actually HURT Apple's momentum.

This isn't a powermac folks...

This is the entry level Mac that costs $600..

It has just doubled it's processor performance, became a media center, included frontrow and added airport and bluetooth...

What are you complaining??

If you need bleeding edge performance and graphics the MacMini is not the machine you oughta be looking at...

If you are a casual user and want your first Mac... This is a damn good deal..

There are obviously alot of newbies on the board right now..

Apple stock ALWAYS tanks on the day of a new announcement..

I think that this particular Mac mini will be a stop gap. Something amazing will replace it very soon.

The $499 price point was great for marketing, but in reality, no one bought the base model...

Compared to yesterdays MacMini, we've just seen a hell of an upgrade... Quit your bitching.

You do realize that no PC/Mac at this price point is going to play games well either, right? The old Mini was not for games; nor is this one. The new iMac will run CoD and universal AA very well...

AL - the gma950 does support core image. other than that you're completely right. this is a real bummer. i guess let's just wait for the benchmarks to start coming in. hopefully it won't be as bad as we all think. i guess just remember that the radeon 9200 that was in the old g4 mac mini was just a differently-clocked radeon 8500, which has been around for what, five years now?

Mark & Nick...

The integrated VGA is on the PCI express chain, pci express has direct access to the system ram, and the system ram being DDR2 is as fast or faster than most ram on most mid range video cards. therefore, ergo: the 'integrated' video on this platform is not that bad. the only downside is the fact that you are losing some system ram. solution: get at least 1GB ram... hell get 2GB.......

also: biggieG: that benchmark has slower vga ram by 133Mhz, and if the 92xx from the olde mini doesnt come close to the 6000 series they are comparing the 950 to, so I feel comfortable in saying the GMA950 is not bad.

now that the memory speed is there integrated graphics takes on a whole new meaning.

also people, if you need ram and are really REALLY upset about giving up 64MB to your vga, then a: buy a different computer, or b: get more effing ram.

either way, imo this new intel mini is currently the worlds most cost effective comptuer.

damn, I was hoping it would be free!!

Whiners, Apple is running a business. They are trying to stay relevant in a computer business dominated by Windows machines. Apple has their margins that they are trying ot maintain so that they can continue to sell Mac computers to all of us.
Don't like what Apple is selling? There are numerous other companies that will willingly take your money.

Now, am I impressed by the announcements? Not really. I wa hoping for more. However, the iBooks will be out soon and hopefully we can be again underwhelmed.

I am expecting the Mac Books to have the mobile GMA950, and I am not going to have a problem with it, know why? because its MORE POWERFUL THAN ANY OTHER VIDEO THATS EVER BEEN IN AN IBOOK!.... people are stupid, integrated graphics sucks, bitch you couldnt detect integrated graphics if it was a** fu*king you!

TT:

see for yourself how terrible the integrated graphics performance is compared to competing cheap-ass solutions by ATI and NVidia:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2427&p=2

"Whiners, Apple is running a business. They are trying to stay relevant in a computer business dominated by Windows machines. Apple has their margins that they are trying ot maintain so that they can continue to sell Mac computers to all of us.
Don't like what Apple is selling? There are numerous other companies that will willingly take your money."

...and that is the same excuse you'll be using when Steve Jobs decides to package his day old sh#t and sell it to you for $500. Get a clue already!

So you can share playlists from other computers with iTunes. Can I access my library of DivX movies that are not in iTunes? Just on a drive on another computer?

In case anybody cares...the video chipset on this thing was MADE for home theater! It has hardware motion compensation, MPEG-2 hardware decoding, support for native HDTV resolutions and 16x9 aspect displays..among other nice stuff. It's NOT a big 3d gaming platform but definitely has the stuff for decoding video.

http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/

Nick aka dumbass: read my post!!

"that benchmark has slower vga ram by 133Mhz, and if the 92xx from the olde mini doesnt come close to the 6000 series they are comparing the 950 to, so I feel comfortable in saying the GMA950 is not bad."

the intel 950 is like twice as fast as the 9200! (but still slow for most games)

So yah its better, I wanted more ram anyway, this will just give me the extra incentive to get it.

Crap graphics, but small form factor.

It's an office PC, albeit a bloody expensive one. If you don't like it, stop being so cheap and get an iMac.

It's good news if the Mac evangelists on this site are disappointed... It only means that Apple have a hit on their hands and that it will sell to the masses..

Remember all the whining and complaining about the orignal iPod, the iMac G5, the iPod mini, the iPod nano... All were HUGE products and all of them were slammed by the so called "Mac-Faithful."

When someone came on this board and said that the price Apple pays for powerPC processors is/was cheaper, sometimes half the price of equivalent intel processors, most people laughed. I haven't been able to find out how much Apple pays for the PPC's because neither IBM not Apple has released anything, but seeing how the machines aren't getting any cheaper, haven't added any features, have lost some features, and the only change has been the processor, I'm tempted to think he was right.

I think everyone who expected the intel switch to drop Apple's prices and significantly boost their performance was smoking something. The switch was not made for desktop performance. High end PPC is equal or better than top of the line intel, and eventually all those high end chips make it into desktops. The problem was notebooks and while it looks to me like IBM could have solved it, Apple claims that's why they switched and it's possible, but I'm not convinved. The intel switch is definietly not my favorite thing. If Steve announced tomorrow that it was a joke, and all intel machines were EOL'ed I would honestly be very happy.

To all the switchers and newbs,

This is an excellent deal for an entry level Mac! shared video memory with pci express and DDR2 is not as slow as your grandmother's shared memory Compaq.

If you need more performance and have the bones, by all means get an iMac, Macbook or PowerMac.

To those that are "underwhelmed". You shouldn't be. What did you expect when the venue was on campus?

"I think everyone who expected the intel switch to drop Apple's prices and significantly boost their performance was smoking something. "
No. That's just their way of rationalizing their complete faith in Steve Jobs.

At least it has like 4 USB ports! And that's 1 more than the iMac. Although the iMac has two FireWire ports. It seems that Apple has listened to some of the complaints! Question: Where is the IR port located? Is it on the top where the logo is?

For $600 bucks, this thing rocks. Here are the benefits over yesterday's G4 Mini....

1. Smoking processor twice as fast
2. Faster Ram
3. iLife 06
4. Front Row
5. Bluetooth 2.0 (standard)
6. Airport wireless (standard)
7. Gigabit ethernet
8. Digital audio in and out
9. DVI out for HDTV (media center)
10. Apple Remote

How can anyone in their right mind think that this is not a worthy upgrade over yesterday's G4 MacMini??

MacMania: "To those that are "underwhelmed". You shouldn't be. What did you expect when the venue was on campus?"

I don't know, maybe something that didn't take several steps backwards while raising the price.

cup half empty there Jay?

The intel core solo and duo cpus are the worlds most efficient cpus, how are they a bad choice again?

and what featureas did they take away? it looks all around more powerful to me, bigger hdd, faster hdd, gigabit ethernet, better video, DDR2 memory support, dual channel memory support... more usb ports? shall I continue?

TT aka Kool Aid drinker:

I did read your useless post. You looked at the Intel integrated graphics getting massively outperformed by cheap integrated NVidia graphics and you provided some lame excuses.

Apple could have charged an extra $50 to offer non-poopy graphics, but they did not. They could have kept wireless as a $100 option, but they made it a manditory purchase. They could have offered a $50 upgrade to a Core Duo chip, since it costs $32 more for it, but they did not.

They could have offered a $450 iMac Core Duo 1.67Ghz with no wireless built-in, but instead you have to shell out $799 for something with an iMac Core Duo 1.67Ghz.

realist:

what step backwards did they make? name one?

the video is better so that doesnt count...