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This will change evrything, but it won't be a huge todal wave. Those on the fence will give Macs a try. The user base will continue to expand, as well. In time, all software will have to play more nicely with one another.

If Apple has Xc0ode for Windows as its next step, wouldn't it then make Apple's software the premeir software programming environment, allowing them to absorb windows in the long run?

so this kind of negates the idea that Apple Computer wanted to keep market share growing slowly so that they would be able to keep up with demand...

MDN MW: big, as in the market share should be allowed to grow in big steps.

This is a sad, mixed blessing. I see the reason for it on a purely business level but the very thought of seeing a Windows desktop framed by Apple hardware makes my stomach churn. If only they would just market the shit out of OS X they wouldn't have to resort to this.

Why would anyone in their right mind buy anything other than a Mac? Price. Price. Price.

masonreloaded:
price,price, price??
so you tell me that you can buy a laptop with the same spics as MacPro wth half the price.
please give me a link I'll I will buy it right away. i mean it. really.

my ibook rocks, never an issue. In the long run, and off the shelf Mac's cost is becoming a moot point. Buyer beware, do your homework, read the fine print (see: Dell), and note all the software that comes 'free' with Macs.

mw: study-like your mom told you to do.

Scarbro: That's silly. We've had Windoze desktop framed by mac hardware ever since we had Virtual PC and SoftPC.

This isn't a "resort." It's an assault.

MW: "real" as on "get real."

Well, let's remember that a "switcher" will have to buy a separate Win XP OS, if they want to dual boot, unless they have an XP disk already. And, that isn't very cheap.

I feel similar Scarbro, though I do see the sense in it - especially if anyone here is also a gamer and has resorted to buying XP for that purpose and as for me I've resisted that and pride myself at being 100% Macintosh (I have 5 Mac's all networked together).

Think on this more; since Vista is only a fraction of what Longhorn was, is it conceivable with the recent slip on release date of Vista that M$ should instead just release Vista as Service Pack 4 for XP!

Well mason yes Mac's cost a tad more, but also save you a whole lot more in the long run. I for one would rather pay more for something that'll work instead of paying some IT Engineer to go away on a long-haul vacation and work on their tan with those hourly rates they charge!

It is quite depressing when your own financial circumstances will only allow you to buy a Windows PC in the hope you'll be able to afford an Apple Macintosh at a later date only to find you cannot save enough of your earnings through paying to fix your Windows PC only too often.

With that if you buy cheap (Dell), don't expect it to work for long or even be close to being reliable.

I applaud that Japanese Bank for shedding 2,300 Windows PC's for Apple Mac's, at last a major player in the business world has taken the intiative, they won't be disappointed and I imagine laugh at their nearest banking competitor when their computer systems go down in what I could term 'The Daily Windows Ritual', and for them to continue on with their business as usual along with gaining on the market at the same time.

How about Win XP security holes when running on the Intel Macs? I hope that the security perception of Macs are not tarnished because people are running Win XP on their Macs.

Stan,
It won't tarnish as Apple is adamant in their literature about Boot Camp how unsafe Windows is.

MW: past.
As in, NetBIOS and Windows are from another century past.

An atom-blaster is a good weapon, but it can point both ways.

Look how excited the Mac community is to be able to run Windows on their computers. So we have people who normally run Windows continuing to do so, with no reason to buy a Mac. Mac users are now purchasing copies of Windows. . .or pirating it, which I find even funnier. And there are those fence people who will buy a Mac, but now must add the cost of Windows on top of the base price. LOL

HAHA, go sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here.

Uhm, Haha, are you so entirely oblivious to reason that you can think of not a single reason why Microsoft users would buy a Mac? Are you then slothful, arrogant, or just delusional? As far as the Mac community, you demonstrate you superior reasoning skills once again -- most Mac users don't use Windows. So what you're seeing is a subset of users expressing delight that they can sell the PC they have for those 1-3 programs they have to use for work or for games. I'm sure you do find this funny, but the PC-only manufacturers don't. Apple has successfully co-opted Sony, Dell, HP, Gateway and the rest of 'em. Not too shabby.

SteveJack you stupid faggot. Why would anyone buy Apple's overpriced shit to run Windows.

Well, I'm pissed!

I just placed a sell order for another stock so I could by some cheap Apple stock … and they drop the f*&**& bomb on me this morning. The stock is up $6.04 since this morning. Couldn't ve they kept this news under wraps for another couple of days? Bummer!

"Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows!"

Er... Last time I saw, people managed to run OS X on PCs just fine. Some trickery involved, yes, but...

Also, Dell has nothing to worry about. It's not about the ability to run Windows, but about giving Enterprise-level tech support and equipment replacement policies.

Call the IT department "Data Processing."

When they say "enterprise," you say "business."

Or "phasers on stun."

Apple MacBook $1999
Same configuration Dell $1213.
Dual core Dell with slightly lesser specs (but you add the extra options you care about) $799.

Lemme see, I can pay 150% to 64% more for about the same thing and run Windows on it...

There's a deal only a Mac lover could love...

There's no hydrogen bomb here, just another PC vendor entering the PC marketplace, and an overpriced vendor at that.

The biggest danger for Apple is that a lot of Mac users will try Windows (Because they now can easily) Find out it's not as bad as they's been lead to believe, and make their next PC a $799 Dell.

A Hydrogen Bomb (or at least a small roadside bomb) would be Jobs announcing a version of OS X that runs on the $799 Dell...

Except I would argue that many Mac users have used XP and have no interest in buying a Dell or from any other PC vendor.

I'm not a Mac user, but you're an idiot if you think a Mac Mini doesn't compare favorably with a Dell Desktop.

Let's really start to compare specs... When you add in all the extras and the quality of components. A Dell with similar features costs far more. You build me a $600 PC (including software) that can handle desktop video as well as a Mac and you win.

The only complaint I have is that Apple is slow to increase processor speeds.

Also comparing Apple to Dell isn't really a fair comparison. Dell is hardly a boutique PC manufacturer. You start to compare Apple laptops to Sony and Toshiba and Apple Desktops to Sony Desktops and you have a much more pertient comparison.

If you're happy with a Walmart quality PC then Dell is certainly fine.

There's also cost of ownership and length of usability. A 400MHz iMac holds up much better today than a similar Dell or other generic PC from the same age. Try running Windows XP on a Pentium II and see what I mean. Apple's overall service rate of repair is much better as well.

Like I said. I'm not a Mac user. I've never owned a Mac.. I'm not even a regular Linux user. I use Windows XP mainly because I use it professionally. This blind hatred and concentration on price from PC users that are perfectly happy with a horribly bloated and awful OS is rediculous.

I plan on buying a iMac or a Mac Mini as my next PC because I can run Windows XP for work when I need to... but I predict that 90% of the time I'll be booting into OS X.

"Let's really start to compare specs... When you add in all the extras and the quality of components."

You have been fooled if you think the motherboard, LCD, processor and hard disk inside your Intel MacBook are better "quality" than those which come with a Dell, heck the same contract manufacturers build machines for both of them.

And on price, I did compare Apples with Apples (Or Dells), the same exact PC is 64% cheaper from Dell, and even includes translucent white plastic trim on the case...

the 150% cheaper $800 dell is cosmetically identical to it's more expensive brother, still a core Duo, just a little lighter on all specs.

So either you buy box A with the same contents and and a Dell name, or box B with the same contents and an Apple name for 150-64% more.

You're not buying any extra quality, performance etc, just a very expensive nameplate.

The equivalent Dell to the Mac mini is $320. an 88% premium. Sure, the Mac does come in a pretter, smaller box. but is about 50% slower than the Dell.

"Except I would argue that many Mac users have used XP and have no interest in buying a Dell or from any other PC vendor"

Yep, a marketer's dream, to be able to sell a commodity product at a higher price to consumers who show strong brand loyalty, just by tweaking the packaging a bit. Well done Apple, but for how long now that direct comparisons are available?

Mr. Why,

Show us the specs for each machine. Post, right here, the specs for the Dell and the MacBookPro you're comparing to prove to us idiotic Mac users that we're wasting our money.

Actually, even if you were right, you're still missing the point. A Corvette is a fast sports car, but I would rather drive a BMW every day. It's just a better user experience.

And Snafu, last I heard, there's some SERIOUS trickery getting OSX installed on a PC. I need my computer to just work. I don't want to spend 2 days trying to get some kludge from hell to work right, I just want to get down to business.

BTW, I know this is wrong, but I will NEVER, EVER, EVER pay for a real copy of Windows for installation on my Intel Imac. Microsoft doesn't deserve another freaking penny for that steaming pile of crap.

The average user won't be affected, but the computer geek in thier family will be. They are the first that need to be converted.

Go to the Dell website, play with configurations of the E1505 core duo system which starts at $799, change all the items to be the same as the Mac Book, you'll be up to $1250 (today)

"Show us the specs for each machine"

Here we go:

Start at $799:

Core Duo 166GHz / 667MHz frontside bus
512MB memory
XP Media center edition
15.4" XGA 1280x800
Intel GMA 950 graphics
Core Duo at 1.83GHz 677MHz Frontside bus
40GB SATA HDD @5400 RPM
24x CDRW/DVD drive
Wireless B/G adapter
Translucent white trim - priceless


Add:

15.4" LCD WXSGA 1680 x 1050 pixels
80GB SATA HDD @ 5400 RPM
8x double layer CD/DVD burner
Wireless B/G networking + Bluetooth
256MB ATI mobility Radeon X1400

Now you pay $1250.

Compare to:

15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo / 667MHz frontside bus
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory

$1999 from that other PC maker...

Ok just to cut off people pointing out differences you say you get a webcam with the Mac, a built in modem with the PC, a little more graphics memory with the PC, a slightly faster graphics chip with the MAC but the systems are very very close in spec.

Yawn!
"If you think nickels you get nickels. If you think dollars you get dollars." - Ray

"Actually, even if you were right, you're still missing the point. A Corvette is a fast sports car, but I would rather drive a BMW every day. It's just a better user experience."

Well I've owned both and I'd say it's a matter of preference.

My Z06 vette is a great piece of machinery at a great price, for performance it beats my BMW M5 off the line, goes round corners better and brought more of a smile to my face.

But isn't as good a highway cruiser, daily commuter or 4 person passenger car as the BMW M5, which itself is still a pretty fun car.

However for commuting it did have better air conditioning and cupholders ever try to use the cupholders in a BMW M5 to actually put cups in?

I sometimes wish I still had my Ferrari 328 which is not as refined or as fast as either the Z06 or the M5, and also has kind of a cheesy interior, but has that magic something.... Design, exhaust note, feel.

But there isn't that difference in the PC hardware. A Mac running XP and a Dell or IBM or HP running XP could probably be confused for each other by the average consumer if you took all the badges off.

There's no way that's going to happen with a Ferrari and a BMW and a Corvette, each of which have different distinct personalities.

"If you think nickels you get nickels. If you think dollars you get dollars."

Take care of the pennies, the dollars will look after themselves.

I went to Dell's page and tried the same thing, to configure an E1505 Dual Core as close to a MacBook Pro as possible. I got $1962.

Of course, to make the feature comparison less laughably lopsided, I had to add Windows XP Professional rather than the Media Center Edition, and add a remote control (which is funny because it doesn't even work with XP Professional), the Windows XP Professional reinstall discs (can you believe you have to pay extra for that?), Office Personal Edition (which is a bitter substitute for iWork plus iLife, but whattaya gonna do), and the "UltraSharp" screen with TrueLife (no match for the MBP's TFT, but still).

And you know what? That Dell machine, for about the same price as a MBP, wouldn't run Mac OS X, wouldn't come with any software for editing movies or burning HD DVDs or editing web pages, ...

Oh never mind.

Why would you be adding XP Pro? Don't understand if you want the media options?

Oh well, Lucky Apple has customers as dumb as you who can't effectively configure Dells. $1200 extra to have someone put everything in a box for you, perhaps that's a fair price.

And don't you know, XP home and Media Center Edition include software for editing movies?

I have a bridge for sale, drop me an email...

What kind of drugs are you smoking boy?

The remote adds $23, or $104 if you want it to come with a TV tuner (read actual multimedia video handling TIVO replacement, not talk about being a home media hub)

Microsoft Works adds $55 bucks, full office $0 if you work for a company who already brought you a copy in the office (Yes home use is legal thru the Microsoft Home Use Program).

The install disk if you want it is $8 extra, but you can still reinstall from the hard drive if you need to.

So in terms of hardware you had to add, that makes another $23, plus $8 if you don't want to call up a Dell guy to get him to reinstall software for you, plus another $55 if you can't get Office for free from your company.

And if you're not a home user but are any sort of serious company who doesn't use Windows, you would likely have purchased (or stolen) Office for the Mac anyway so that's a wash.

Why the hell would I ever want to use Windows - enough of the bickering on the cost comparisons between Dell and Apple... who cares about the hardware costs? Hell, I'd pay an extra $1,000 to use OSX for the next 5 years!

"Hell, I'd pay an extra $1,000 to use OSX for the next 5 years!"

That's Lucky! because it sounds like you need to!

...um... first post.

I've been a long time mac user and cant imagine life without them. I think what apple has done is a brilliant move adding boot camp to the mix. I own a company that has 90 percent macs and 10 percent pc's. The 10 percent I have, was a must, because there was no could work around for the app I needed to run. The only thing Bill Gates is brillant at is being a master at monopolizing the world with his operating system! He didn't rule because his product was the best. You have to ask yourself if all apps in the world ran on windows or OSX, which kind of pc would people buy? I have no bad feelings toward windows at all, the market place will always decide who wins or loses, it's always been that way!

Her's the deal, where Apple will steal the show in the future will totally come from the Ipod and not it's computers. Apple has had a brillant plan for a long timel! Get the demographic of 8-18 using Ipods and apple technology and they will want to use macs because they will see the ease of use and how well they can store there photos and music and movies. This age group doesn't give a flying flip about business apps! Kids in this age group have no bias, all they care about is what technology best meets their needs!

Also kids love excitement and buzz and that is something that no other computer company on this planet is doing as good as apple! I would like to say the reason I am a mac head is the constant excitement that they have brought to my life over the years and especially how much they have ramped it up the last couple!

To Mauifisher

yes, young kids, this is exactly the kind of demographic that will pay an extra $1200 for a PC because young people have LOTS of money.

That's why it's usually the young people you see living in expensive houses, driving nice cars and eating out at expensive restaurants.

Compare the ipod scenario: there are products at $69, $99, $149, $199, $249, $299, $399. They’re nicely spaced to extract the maximum possible cash even from price sensitive consumers. And there’s no real price difference between them and competing players.

That’s a whole different ball game. I can bet if a competing player cost $159 and had about the same specs as a $399 ipod, a lot less ipods would be sold.

Now with that $1200 saved on th notebook, you can buy about 17 entry level ipods or four of the top of the line ones, or a lot of beer and pizza.

"People who've never used a Mac are about to get a wonderful and shocking awakening. Nobody "prefers" using Windows outside of the Ballmer household - and that's because the Ballmers are brainwashed. I'm not targeting Reuters here, I'm using their quote as an example of a mindset held by many, many people."

Well then, if it's held by many, many people, don't you think you should give it more credit than just comparing it against your opinion. Your pretty much saying, "Eh, they're all wrong, I'm right, Mac is the best..." etc. etc.

I rarely see any unbiased comments around here.

OSX has it's good parts and so does Windows. If you haven't used Windows since Win98 or 200 then I think you'd be in for a shock at how much more reliable it is now.

I think for most people that need to call tech support and have all sorts of problems with Windows just don't know basic knowledge about computers. All you need to know is use a good antivirus, enable the firewall on your router, and don't use crappy malware Kazaa programs and stuff.

In my first couple years of dealing with Win98 and 2000 I think I had a couple viruses cause of Napster and the like, after I wisened up though I haven't had one yet. That's with over 1TB of files and harddrives and constantly on computers and networks.

Anyways, I don't want to talk about how people *should* use windows, the smart ones use them right so you don't hear many problems about them. All the people buying computers for $300 at Walmart though, they're the ones that need something foolproof like a Mac or Linux system. I really don't think most of those buyers would want to spend the extra for a Mac though.

I'm watching the price of the Macbooks now though. If only they could be had with an Nvidia card in them for playing games and working in OpenGL apps in XP I'd be sold.

I love Mr. Jack.

Im a mac user since mid 2005, i used to be a devoted windows follower since windows 3.1 in 1993. Didnt like the versions of the Mac OS 9 and below, even though i did get a chance to fiddle with it once and a while. It never got any appeal, seemed pretty much the same usefulness as windows did.
When the colourful iMacs came out in 1998/9 they looked cool and appealing but OS 9 still didnt cut it for me, didnt have any significant reason for being better then windows and having to switch over.
Then i bought an ipod nano.. it was small and great for workouts in the gym and had itunes available on windows and i had read it was easy to transfer music to and from the ipod, which when i got it found out that it was quick and easy and intergrated very well with the ipod. This made me curious to have another look into the Mac OS and since OS X was now out and had evolved more since its initial release in 2001 i did some learning and researching about the benefits of OSX Tiger.
After extended comparisons, reviews and visits to the Apple store to experiment with OSX i had found an entire new and a lot more advanced operating system that integrates so well with the hardware then windows/bill gates could ever dream of.
And so i made the switch and got an iMac G5, the experience has just got better every day and continues to get better as i learn more and it is actually a joy now to use a computer and not like a routine that i have to go through all the time and endure which i used to do blindly without knowing. Also they are so quiet then any windows PC could ever be and it is a huge welcome to my ears.
And now with boot camp i can play some games that arnt available on the mac (GTA) and i can get rid of my windows box for a few apps that i could only use on windows as soon i buy a Macbook Pro in the next few months. Eventually I will not be needing Windows as now the popularity of OSX increases and so will the compatability of software from windows to OSX.

For all you people still in the pre-historic generation called Microsoft Windows, i can only feel sorry for you guys, you are blindy being mis-guided and tortured.


my 2 cents

This probably doesn't belong here but I'm curious about a couple OSX things.

1. Compared to what I'm used to it feels slow, is there a way to make the windows open and minimize faster? (turning off effects maybe?) Or to be able to delete files with just one button instead of dragging to the trash all the time?

2.Is there a way to have the contents of the window move to fill in the empty space of the window if you make it bigger? I always put icons in list view so I can see more of them, but on OSX it seems it all goes horizontally at whatever the original window size was.

3. Can I make it so I don't have to go to the the file menus to quit the program?

4. The mouse speed is pretty much only an acceleration adjustment, how can I make it the same quickness at light movement as it is at fast movement?

Those are just a few things that are pretty hard for me to get used to, if I can change them that would be awesome!

Firstly i reckon having Windows on a Mac aswell as OS X is a great thing! and when adding up the price of a mac compared to other annoyingly ugly PC systems you always have to take into account the heaps and heaps of better and more powerful software you get, most notabley OS X and the iLife suite. Windows is a great option for those one or 2, mainly business programs or games, that you might not be able to get on OS X

for Drew:

The command key! its the key with the apple symbol on it on either side of your keyboard, its your life line to quick controls.

command key + Q = quit any application
command key + delete = immediately send a file or lots of selected files to the trash without having to drag on drop them.
Theres lenty of settings, likke tunring on the 'genie' effect that will gain you a little bit of speed.
And if you want icons to spead out across a window so theres no free space click on "view" then "arrange by" and "name" name sorts everything alphabetically
also at the top of every finder window is 3 options to have your icons in classic OS 9 list view, a view more like Windows list view, and spread out icons.
Can't really help you with the mouse thing except go to system preferenced and play around with the mouse settings.

Thanks Dan, I'm not a fan of the command key combinations though. That means I have to take my hand off the mouse or look for multiple keys instead of just selecting stuff and deleting. I suppose custom hotkeys could be set up though, if osx supports macros.

I did discover the different views and the other list views but none of them update if you resize the windows. Like if I just opened a window but it opened up too big, I want to be able to drag it to a corner or something and stretch it out and use the space that I stretch it too. Instead it just keeps the icons in a horizontal list and now the scroll bar is a super long horizontal scroll.

I dunno, they seem like simple things that would make navigating osx and dealing with multiple files a whole lot faster. All the Command + a key combinations reminds me of my old laptop with the messed up thumb cursor thing where I had to use the keyboard whenever I didn't have access to a mouse.

"Why", your posts were amusing but so so off the mark. Dell has been playing the price game perfectly, that I will admit. You can get a pretty decent Dell laptop for a good price and it will work pretty well for you, I know this because I have friends with Dell laptops. But don't you think that there's more to buying a computer or any product than just the cheapest you can get it? Is there a premium attached to BMW's and Ferrari's (cars which you claim to have owned) that you soak up because they are freaking cool cars? What justification did you give for that, or is it just that when it comes to computers you want to go as dirt cheap as you possibly can?

Dell wins when it comes to price, no argument here. But what they fail at, and miserably, is being cool. Why would they buy alienware? Because they've become gone from Dell to Dull. They have no significant R&D;as far as innovation goes. They license every technology under the sun, like Sony's Tru-brite screens or whatever you call those glare-ridden embarrassments, but never come up with anything truly unique on their own. People don't fall in love with their Dell laptops.. they just kinda like them (I'm going off what I've observed).

People do, on the other hand, fall in love with apple laptops. Why? Maybe it's the care that seems to have gone into the design: fibre-optic backlit keyboards, light sensing screens, motion sensor hard drive protection, mag-safe power cord, brushed aluminum casing, minimalist and beautiful design, thinness, slot-loading optical drives, bluetooth (before anyone else had it), etc. Plus I NEVER see a 5 year old Dell notebook but I see the old clamshell iBooks and titanium powerbooks all the time.

I think what we're going to observe here is a systematic change in the PC market. People will move away from the build-it-yourself mentality and will also start to wise up to the fact that we are in the midst of a market controlled by a monopoly. Most people, and by most I mean the 92% of the world who own windows PCs but aren't tech geeks, just want something that works, that they don't have to bother configuring (you have to have knowledge or friends with knowledge to do that), that they can call for tech support that isn't outsourced to India like Dell's and HP's and MS', that has all the software they will need in the box so they don't have to shop and pay for x aftermarket solutions, that won't get destroyed by viruses and spyware, that looks good anywhere (Even in the kitchen!), that they can be proud of, and that has stuff in it that they might not know they even need (camera, bluetooth, pci-x, frontrow, etc).

I'm sorry, but we are going to start seeing a gradual change in the way people think about computers. I work at CompUSA on the weekends and everyone I talk to is an EASY sell on a Mac. Even if they balk at first it's only a matter of showing them the machines and explaining the differences in even just the hardware before they willfully plunk down twice or even three times what they came in to spend (and no, I'm not THAT great of a salesman).

Oh, and "Why", one more thing. You're totally missing the point of the article. It's highlighting the fact that you can run OS X AND Windows, not just Windows. IMO, running OS X is worth at least another $1000, and this isn't coming from a bais life-long machead; I've been using Windows machines for 15 years now and I only just recently switched over to OS X. The contrast between Windows and Tiger is startling, and it can only be explained by the fact that Windows has been allowed to stagnate for years as a monopoly with no real pressure from any competitors to really stay ahead of the game.

It will all get evened out, trust me. There's a reason why Microsoft ranks absolute LAST in surveys on customer trust, and Apple ranks the highest among computer companies.

Well I hear all you pc lovin nutz, but tI will be the first to tell you I make a living repairing PC's and thank god for MS or I'd be outta biz! I service both, but the mac just has way fewer problems manley due to the lack of that hiddeous registry MS uses. Most user problems are related to the reg, though they don't know it they think its thier pc hardware. For customers I like I help them switch for the idiot A-Holes I let em keep on callin me with there windows delemmas. Macs are just better theres no corvette beamer scenario it's just simple Macs are far more reliable, easier to use, and darn it all around prettier! Wanna headache by a windows box, want a wet dream buy a mac.

"Is there a premium attached to BMW's and Ferrari's (cars which you claim to have owned) that you soak up because they are freaking cool cars?"

Firstly a Ferrari 328 isn't a particulary expensive automobile, you can have one for less then the price of a new corvette, they cost about $40k, at least when I brought mine.

And yes, I brough the Ferrari because of branding, design, history and performance, and well, everyone's gotta own a Ferrari sooner or later. The fact that it cost less than most mid/high end cars you see on the road is just a bonus. You've just gotta get used to the $3000 service bills for even the smallest jobs.

The Corvette Z06 is in essence a high end Dell, A fast good handling car with performance and handling which exceed both the Ferrari and the BMW. Yes it lacks some magic in body design compared to the Ferrari, has rubbery gearshift rather then the beatiful gated Ferrari item but outperforms it in every other aspect.

The Corvette is crude design in comparison swapping fat tyres for good chassis engineering and cubic inches for performance tuning and weight reduction.

But nevertheless the end result is very good. The only reason to buy the Ferrari is because you like the design the prancing horse badge on the hood and the growl of that lovely little V8.

Contrast the BMW, It's faster and better handling than the Ferrari. it's almost as fast and more comfortable and practical than the Z06. it's so boring in it's styling that it can easily be mistaken for a normal 5 series. It's more expensive than either. Why would anyone buy it? When it comes down to it, 4 seats and a larger trunk and a more comfortable long distance cruiser.

But the point is still there are very real differences between these cars, and solid reasons to pay more for them than a Ford Focus, and solid reasons to choose one instead of the other based on your preferences and requirements from the vehicle.

That's really not so with the Apple and the Dell running XP. They are identical in every important spec, perform about the same, weigh about the same and look about the same.

Effectivly it's the choice between a Ford Focus and a pimped out Ford Focus.

So I do see the argument of people who say they like the Mac because they prefer the look of it's case even if it isn't a particulary good deal for price or performance. But at least be honest about that, realize that the Dell is a cheap PC which performs the same and your reasons for buying an Apple to run XP are more Aesthetic than fuctional.


"People do, on the other hand, fall in love with apple laptops. Why? Maybe it's the care that seems to have gone into the design:
"

fibre-optic backlit keyboards, - My new IBM has that.

light sensing screens, - OK, doesn't have that.

motion sensor hard drive protection - Just about every notebook has that now.

mag-safe power cord - OK might take month or two for that to appear on PCs, once Apple gets the "bursting into flames" problem solved.

Brushed aluminum casing, My dell only has a painted magnesium/plastic casing, my IBM a quite nice hard black coating on it's magnesium chasis.

minimalist and beautiful design, - OK Apples industrial design is good, but everyone else is catching up. Good design just isn't that expensive a thing to add.

thinness, OK - My 3lb IBM core Duo notebook beats Apple in the thinness, lightness stakes about half the weight and much smaller. My 2.5yr old Dell is smaller and lighter than any Apple notebook too.

slot-loading optical drives, - Nice, but I never take an optical drive on the road with me.

bluetooth - Hardly an issue now that everyone DOES have it,and any PC with USB can be retrofitted with it for $19.95

"Plus I NEVER see a 5 year old Dell notebook but I see the old clamshell iBooks and titanium powerbooks all the time." - I don't want an old notebook, I like that my company gets me a new one every 2-3 years. in PC and Mac terms 5 yrs ago is roughly when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

"I'm sorry, but we are going to start seeing a gradual change in the way people think about computers."

Yep to complete commoditization. Who can't afford a small light good looking cellphone today? Once those where a premium product. Who won't have ipod like capability in their cellphone in 5yrs, no-one. Will all PCs start to look better and more similar. Sure. Will Apple be able to sustain it's current pricing policy? Highly unlikely.

For $1200 I'd consider the Apple. The product seems reasonably right, the problem today is price.

Why,

In your differences comparison above, you forgot to mention the biggest selling point of buying a Mac.... OSX! That is where the other box makers can't compete..

Soon I will be able to come home again. I switched to Windows a few years ago, because I wanted to play more games, and it was a lot cheaper for me to build and upgrade a PC than buy it was to buy a mac. I swore at that point I wouldn't buy a mac again. Wrong...I'm still an Apple loyalist deep down, hince the two ipods and OSX Tiger for my G4 733, and my .mac account. But I will tell you this. I've had both my PC's hardware fail several times, but my mac is as stable and reliable as the day I bought it, and has never failed me. I changed my ways after seeing how sweet Tiger is, and that's where I said to myself I want a Mac again.

I look forward to the day the Intel Desktops come out. I can get rid of two computers, I will be able to edit video again, (any low cost PC editing software sucks, Premiere sucks too)still play games and there will be no loss in investment with my PC software. Can't wait!

By the way regarding the Reuters quote up top...
"Apple hopes to draw people who want Macs, considered by many as easier to use..."

If you load Windows on a Mac it's no longer easier to use.

Mike K,

The original premise I was responding to was that it was an advantage to run XP on the Mac and that would encorage people who would otherwise buy a Windows PC to buy a Mac and run Windows on it.

Microsoft's been the company that's made a series of smart business decisions throughout it's life and defended it's turf well.

You don't get to own 95% of a market just by luck. You get there because 95% of customers (or more correctly the people who make the buying decisions for those people) think your product is the best one for their purposes. Not neccesarily best overall, but best blend of features, price, stability, compatibility, software availability, supportability etc.

Apple in comparison, by choosing, many years ago the closed box approach missed the opportunity to be the leader instead of Microsoft. It's pretty clear that if 20 years ago they'd licensed their hardware designs and O/S then the PC landscape would look quite different to what it does today.

As it is with the same closed approach, there's no way Apple will be other than a bit player in the PC marketplace. Even if they got up to 5%, 10% or 15% share, it's not concievable that all the other players in the industry will suddenly give up, go home and leave the other 85% of the market to Apple.

Apple should get OS X out on budget priced standard PC hardware. Then things might really get interesting.

Why:

You do have compelling arguments about a Dell running Windows being a better purchase than a Mac running windows, and if that's strictly the operating system we're assuming is running for the sake of this argument, then yeah, I myself would have a hard time justifying the Apple frills. However, I'll belabor the point a tad more in pointing out that while you were able to mention that laptops are starting to get a lot of the stuff the powerbooks have had for years now, not one of the manufacturers out there combined them all like Apple did. Think about the choice of a powerbook 3 years ago with all the aforementioned features and compare it to a Dell 3 years ago and I think the price difference becomes a bit more justified. The point being that Apple usually stays pretty ahead of the curve when it comes to this stuff, and who knows what we can expect to see with their new macbook non-pros. In fact, if they get out duo cores for under $1500 with 13.3" widescreens and a few extra clever Apple only features in the same vein as magsafe then I think my argument will be quite justified based on hardware alone.

However, as it currently stands, the argument is moot as far as I'm concerned. I'm not even sure what claim you were refuting since nowhere in the article does it mention anything about running exclusively Windows on the Macbook. What made me switch away from XP was OS X and I did it at a time when I could truly care less about Apple's industrial design. The fact of the matter was, when I realized I could get out of the box programs like Garage Band that made all the other music production software I'd been tinkering around with on my Windows box seem bloated, overcomplicated, and unintuitive by comparison, and the rest of the iLife package for free, plus work in an environment that not only feels like its ten years ahead of what Microsoft has to offer in XP, but actually is about 6 years worth of development beyond XP. For me, it's ALL about OS X, and the whole falling in love with at first my tiny Mac Mini, and now my sleek Ferrari like iMac 20" pretty much came later. I think that for the average person, if you CTO an HP desktop with similar specs as the iMac, add a 20" widescreen LCD monitor, throw in media center, add the $200 worth of software needed to compare to iLife, plus add in the yearly cost of about $100 for virus protection and whatever other features (camera, bluetooth, remote, firewire, microphone, 4 button mouse, keyboard with USB hub built in, etc) the iMac has you are WELL above what you're paying for the iMac. It's a fairly compelling argument, I think, even if you never even boot into OSX and eliminate the savings you get on virus protection and the iLife package.

Apple's real ace in the hole is OS X as you mention. However, I think that the stability and overall quality would start to slide to that of what XP is if Apple just started licensing it out to every random hardware manufacturer out there because that would mean that many more configurations Apple would need to throw in support for in OS X, not to mention Apple wouldn't be able to be there for the customer on every software, OS, and hardware related issue (which for most people its weight in gold). So to me I don't think it makes business sense for Apple to compete with MS at their own game (which you're right about, MS plays it so well). I think that Apple really has something here with controlling the whole widget, and if any other company offered a competing all-in-one solution like Apple, say.. Google, or even MS themselves if they decided to make hardware and complete digital lifestyle packages, I would welcome them with open arms.

I'm not an Apple fanboy, but I really think they've got the best thing going on right now (especially in light of all the Vista delays and XP security issues... how embarrassing.. we're talking on par with the BMW in your example catching on fire every 20,000 miles).