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Thurrott: Microsoft’s Windows Vista Beta 1 vs. Apple’s Mac OS X Tiger (Part 2)
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 08:55 AM EDT

"In part one of my comparison of Windows Vista Beta 1 and Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger, I looked at three key aspects of each system: Look and feel, desktop search, and data visualization and organization. For the most part, OS X came out well ahead of Windows Vista, as you'd expect, since it's a polished finished product. Vista, meanwhile, is all knees and elbows, an awkward teenager on its way to maturity. Microsoft will iron out the details, I'm sure, but the end result will likely not change much. Specifically, OS X will always be elegant, and Windows will almost certainly lag behind in the fit and finish department. The only questions are how much Vista will improve when compared to previous Windows versions, and whether it will be enough to keep customers from moving to OS X," Paul Thurrott writes for Supersite for Windows.

"In this second part of the comparison, we'll look a little deeper, and examine security, networking, and power management. Whereas the features in the first part of the comparison where largely related to user interface issues, this time we're dealing more with the nitty-gritty of safety, connectivity, and productivity," Thurrott writes.

Here are a few selected tidbits regarding security from Thurrott's in-depth article:

Microsoft claims that Windows XP and, by extension, Windows Vista, were architected for security, thanks to their NT roots. That claim is, however, bogus. Windows NT was designed in the pre-Internet days, and though the system's architecture is extensible, modern Windows versions are further hobbled by the inclusion of the buggy and insecure IE Web browser and other design mistakes. In short, Windows is a house of cards that seems increasingly incapable of handling today's demands. Mac OS X, meanwhile, was truly designed for excellent security, thanks to its wonderful UNIX roots and clean architecture... he Vista beta adds some security features that OS X has had for years, and it does have a few niceties that OS X lacks. But it's hard to vote against OS X here. The Vista beta, after all, is still Windows. And though it's unlikely that pre-Beta 2 versions of Windows Vista will be targeted by a wide range of hackers, future releases most certainly will be.

In OS X, the root account (which is the equivalent of the Administrator account on a Windows system) is disabled by default. And even those user accounts with administrator-level privileges are safer thanks to a graphical version of the UNIX "sudo" command, which provides an authentication dialog box any time you try to do something that could harm the system (Figure). You provide an admin-level user name and password (which in most cases will be identical to the account you used to logon to the system in the first place) and the authentication is granted for just that single act. For all other actions, the system reverts to your standard user-level access.

Not surprisingly, Microsoft is copying this system for use in Windows Vista. So Windows users will soon see the same kinds of authentication dialogs (Figure) in Windows as we see now in OS X. There are just a few problems with doing so this late in the Windows life cycle. First, Windows was never designed to accommodate this type of authentication process, so the entire system has to be retrofitted to work with user lowered permission levels and pop-up the dialogs when needed. Second, and perhaps most damagingly, the millions of available Windows applications out there today all assume that the user has total control of the system. So Vista will have to be kludged in an unprecedented way to accommodate backwards compatibility. The way it will do so is messy, and involves virtual folder structures that fool legacy applications into believing that they are accessing an older Windows version.

Comparing that system with the cleanly designed OS X is almost comical. If Microsoft can pull it off--and this is an uncertainty at this writing--Windows will finally pick up security functionality that the Mac has enjoyed for years. My educated guess is that Vista won't be as secure as OS X, however, because cobbled together systems are rarely as foolproof as those that were designed correctly from the start.


The full article covers:
• Security
• Logon (User Accounts)
• Parental controls
• Data encryption
• Firewall and system services
• Anti-malware, or stuff Windows needs that OS X does not
• Security updates
• Networking
• Power management

Full article, with much more, here.

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MacDailyNews Take: MacDailyNews Take: As we wrote after Thurrott's initial article, comparing a beta version to a shipping product that won't even be the shipping product (that'll be Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard) when Windows Vista ships is an interesting exercise. The two products likely won't ever be competing against each other (unless Microsoft is early and Apple is late), but Thurrott's comparison gives us a sense for where both Apple and Microsoft are today and where they might be heading with future OSes.

Related MacDailyNews articles:
Thurrott: Microsoft's Windows Vista Beta 1 vs. Apple's Mac OS X Tiger - August 29, 2005
Thurrott: Apple Macs offer a safer computing experience than Microsoft Windows PCs - July 20, 2005
Thurrott on spyware: 'we should have paid more attention to those Apple Switcher ads after all' - July 08, 2005
Apple to unleash Leopard on Microsoft's Windows Longhorn; Mac OS X 10.5 due late 2006 - early 2007 - June 07, 2005
Windows tech writer Thurrott: 'In many ways, Mac OS X Tiger is simply better than Windows' - May 07, 2005
Thurrott: 'Longhorn is in complete disarray and in danger of collapsing under its own weight' - April 27, 2005
Thurrott: Longhorn 'has the makings of a train wreck' - April 26, 2005
Thurrott: Longhorn demos 'unimpressive, fall short of graphical excellence found today in Mac OS X' - April 26, 2005

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Nov 29, 05 - 10:11 am Comment from: carlo

okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Nov 29, 05 - 10:14 am Comment from: MCCFR

Who is this man and what has he done with the real Paul Thurrott?

Nov 29, 05 - 10:17 am Comment from: moiety5

from MDN take: "(unless Microsoft is early and Apple is late)"

Thats the best one I've heard in quite awhile!!

Nov 29, 05 - 10:17 am Comment from: roberto

wohoooooooooooooo!!!!!

Nov 29, 05 - 10:20 am Comment from: iSteve

Either he is back on his medication or Microsoft stopped his payments. Whatever the reason, I like this version.

Nov 29, 05 - 10:21 am Comment from: R

He used to be on something. Now, he seems to be on to something. tongue rolleye

Nov 29, 05 - 10:25 am Comment from: the one true ron™

So now you man-pudding-loving, tree-hugging, hippie pinko MAC fags have turned Paul Thurrott into a fruit, too?

I wonder how much Apple is paying Thurrott to pimp Crapple MAC?

You sausage-swallowing, splooge-gulping, baby-batter-licking MAC fags need to realize that 99.99% of the world uses Windows. You are about to be come extinct. I can't effing wait for you pompous, gay, bone-smugglers to go the way of Commodore.

The only real PC runs Windows. MAC is a toy that can't play games. Worthless except for lovers of hairy man ass.

Nov 29, 05 - 10:29 am Comment from: the one true ron™

Hmmm, hairy man ass.

Nov 29, 05 - 10:30 am Comment from: me

I agree with the MDN take that Leopard, not Tiger will compete with Vista, but SINCE we have no Leopard, I appreciate the Thurrott comparo exercise.

One thing important to note too is the perceived value OS X upgrades offer over Windows upgrades. We all know someone who is running an old version of Windows...maybe not Windows 95 old, but perhaps 98, 2000, NT or ME. Microsoft has had a hard time convincing people to upgrade to XP. In fact, most people aren't. Instead, MS happily licenses a new OS copy when they upgrade their computer because they purchased a cheapo $500 Dell instead of a $1000 Dell. Corporate purchasing is even tougher. A 700 person company doesn't want a hodge podge of PC hardware and software to support, so they contract with Dell or whomever to lease a standard config. If a new hire comes along a year later, even is Vista is available, they won't be putting that software on the workstation. This is bad for MS who needs those Vista licensing fees but who also is not good at backward compatibility.

Nov 29, 05 - 10:33 am Comment from: Santa

'...it's unclear whether Apple can respond as quickly as can, say, Microsoft. The evidence thus far is pretty damning.'

What evidence ????

Microsoft acting 'quickly'?.....my eggs just came up

Nov 29, 05 - 10:36 am Comment from: Left Rear Tire

the one true ron™

You even trademarked your title.... how cute.

Nov 29, 05 - 10:36 am Comment from: Macaday

Pigs are flying...there...there...and there! Thurrott is being honest.

Just as we might have guessed Vista is going to be a rehash on top of a rehash on top of an SP2 on top of NT. Uhh?

And they think that will be MORE secure? It will have more holes in it than WIn95 and if it doesn't it will use 50% of its resources doing it and be a nightmare for the user (even more than currently imo).

Microsoft is on the way down, way way down. Apple is on the way up, way way up...

Nov 29, 05 - 10:37 am Comment from: carlo

the one true ron,

looks like youre a bit homophobic there buddy, whats the matter? your piece of shit windows media player can't download the proper video codecs, and now youre all blue-balled from not being able to watch that kiddie-porn you love so much?

brother, hug a tree and lets work this thing out.


hahahahaha.

Nov 29, 05 - 10:39 am Comment from: Macaday

the one true ron™: Dreary little shit... do us a favour and take your sewage-self elsewhere.

Nov 29, 05 - 10:42 am Comment from: gwm

Remember how we used to always post 'It's happening!' ... except that it just quite wasn't .. yet? And we knew it too, 'cause our Macs were all slow and rare and shit, even though we pretended they weren't.

Gawd .. it sure feels good this time, don't it? heh.

Nov 29, 05 - 10:43 am Comment from: MacDoctor

Well at least Paul got some of something right for a change.
I guess that one could call it a start.

Nov 29, 05 - 10:45 am Comment from: Hairy Bottom

Can't was all just get along? Along sausage and some hairy butt? cheese

Nov 29, 05 - 10:46 am Comment from: MCCFR

I've never heard Mac usage equated with homosexuality before and now I'm worried, am I about to start listening to Judy Garland records whilst deciding how to decorate my bachelor pad with chintz?

And does that mean the Dubya has also started practising the love that dare not speak its name.

Too many questions…

Nov 29, 05 - 10:46 am Comment from: Bill

I think we've spotted the one true mary in the room and his name is Ron.

On a serious note, Thurrott makes a very valid point. Microsoft has a culture of patching their OS together to be all encompassing which in the end is bad for everyone. Until they're willing to walk away from the past (i.e. 3.1 through XP) they'll never achieve the security that their paying customers deserve. But I'm not holding my breath. I think we've got a better chance of the software companies creating Mac versions than MS actually producing a quality OS.

Nov 29, 05 - 10:49 am Comment from: Jim

Judging by all the oral sex nicknames the one true ron™ has in his vocabulary, it's my guess that he actively participates in group oral sex sessions daily with all his boyfriends.

Me? I just tell my wife to suck it.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:07 am Comment from: globewriter

Am I missing something? NT was developed in the pre-internet days...ok..and UNIX was developed last week Wednesday?

Nov 29, 05 - 11:10 am Comment from: the one true phil®

Ron. RON!!!

Get back in here, you little bitch. Leave those MAC fags alone.

You've got some stool-pushing work to do in here, buddy.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:11 am Comment from: ron

Thu rot has set in.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:12 am Comment from: to the one true ron

Something Ron fails to recognize in his "go the way of the Commodore" analogy is that Apple was around when Commodore was #1...Apple was right there...now Commodore is gone...Apple is still around. True, Apple wasn't #1 and may never be. Windows could always be the top operating system...but The One True Ron fails to recognize again that Apple is a HARDWARE company. They happen to compete with Windows on the operating system that accompanies their HARDWARE. This too may change but at the time of this writing it's true. My only regret is that I can't be as articulate as "The One True Ron".

Sorry Ron, as much as you may want this 6% to dissappear, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:16 am Comment from: ron

the one true (yeah, right!) ron

> MAC is a toy that can't play games.>

Yes, you're correct, we don't play games. We work efficiently and make money on our Macs.

Games are for porkers, oinkers and fat people of that ilk.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:18 am Comment from: DakRoland

"Don't feed the Trolls...or react to them".

I'm pleasantly surprised by Thurrott's analysis. He doesn't wander off into fanboyish tirades, and his article actually seems to be written from fair and critical point-of-view. He points out the very security concerns that we all have pointed out in the past. And he makes no excuses for them. I don't know what happened, but if a rabid Microsoftie can suddenly see Windows for what it really is, then anything is possible.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:22 am Comment from: Lord Arawn

"Am I missing something? NT was developed in the pre-internet days...ok..and UNIX was developed last week Wednesday?"

Yes globewriter you are missing something... History.

UNIX was developed along with the internet. It was THE system that universities where using as the internet was created. Therefore the security issues were addressed early in the life cycle of UNIX. I was an admin of one system when the FIRST internet worm was released by Morris. It was a long night as code was analyzed and patches created so we could all get back to our real work. That was almost 20 years ago.

Lord Arawan

Nov 29, 05 - 11:23 am Comment from: Neil

Mr. Thurrott has hit the nail on the head.
Very good article.
Basic message: Vista lags Tiger at almost every level.
I suggest we all send this article to all our Micros**t sufferering friends with the note - Vista is not going to compete with Tiger, but with Leopard.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:34 am Comment from: globewriter

"So Vista will have to be kludged in an unprecedented way to accommodate backwards compatibility. The way it will do so is messy" . You mean like the Classic Environment? I am a mac user - and always have been - but I don't delude myself that ours is a perfect world.

Windows is a perfectly fine OS for most people - it just happens to be different. I will say that i hope the Mac OS gets back to being the easier one to use for newbies. Put a Mac and a PC in front of new computer user now and I suspect the "start" button will be a more obvious beginning point to them. Having to explain "click on the happy face, then click on applications then pick your application, then click it twice"..seems a bit of a kludge. I know we can drag a copy of the app folder to the dock ( or the HD) but that is not an obvious thing to do for a new user. Also, even then, unless they know to hold the mouse down on the folder and wait..they will just open a finder window if they do the obvious thing and click the dock icon.

Then we have the weird .dmg process...the average person would assume that downloading something means that it is there on their desktop. The concept of having to drag it off the virtual image into a folder is not a sensible metaphor. I can't begin to count the number of people who I have convinced to switch to the Mac who tell me "but I downloaded it and it was gone when I restarted the computer".

There are some things on OS X that need to be improved as well. Like, Windows OS X is a work in progress..they both have room to improve.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:34 am Comment from: macbones

Someone has been brewing POLYJUICE potion in Mr. Thurott's neck of the woods. . .

Nov 29, 05 - 11:38 am Comment from: deedubya

If one true ron likes his gay porn pop ups then he should enjoy his windows for years to come.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:39 am Comment from: globewriter

Dear Arawn, Lord of the Underworld, I was simply saying that his assertion that NT was developed before the internet was a foolish argument ..as so was UNIX. Both systems grew to accommodate the new technology. Whether one grew faster or better is an entirely different argument. I do, however, appreciate hearing from someone who has been around through the development stages...very interesting.

Cheers.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:40 am Comment from: Naraa Haras

The Firewall in Mac OS X is off because it's largely unneccessary. Most things are off unless turned on. It would be silly to have a running web server only to block all access from the firewall.

Also if you are sharing your network, the firewall can get in the way by blocking access through your Mac. Apple made the right choice here IMO, but I'm no security expert.

Paul made an error about the wireless networking. If the Mac picks up a new network it will provide a dialog that notifies the user of a new network and asks permission to join. Only when the network is known does it automatically connect.

I found this article interesting. It makes me wonder what further refinements and radical changes Apple will make with Leopard. I hope they do move the firewall into networking and get rid of the "configure" button in Networking. I wouldn't be there if I didn't want to make changes.

MDN, it would be nice if your users would be moderated out when they go off topic.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:46 am Comment from: Jack A

Wow, do you think that he has goofed with OS X enough that the clear superiority has started to penetrate even that thick skull of his? Or is he bipolar?

Nov 29, 05 - 11:50 am Comment from: alvarez

For all of you that are trying to be funny by mocking Thurrot, check out the other MDN links and you'll see that this is basically the same message he's been preaching all year.

Nov 29, 05 - 11:51 am Comment from: alvarez

Jack,
...and do you say that to all switchers? nice, real nice

Nov 29, 05 - 11:52 am Comment from: Naraa Haras

Paul manages to state that OS X has enjoyed a lack of malware, spcifically viruses, because of the smaller market, but then goes on to illustrate why a virus would have such a difficult time on OS X. It seems he wants to perpetuate the security through obscurity, but when listing the facts, talks himself out of it.

It's strange reading an article that so plainly shows how superior Mac OS X is to Windows, but the author desperately wants to believe Windows is really better than it sounds. I bet it took him a long time to write this. He probably had to keep rewriting sections that he realized were completely demonstratably false, although he still left in the bit about security through obscurity.

Paul has a Powerbook and he treasures it, even flaunts it at Microsoft gatherings. I think he believes that Microsoft has everything they need to make the best computing experience, but just need to be shaken up a little.

2006 will be a shake-up alright. If not 2006, then 2007 when Leopard is in full-swing and Apple has moved fully to Intel.

Nov 29, 05 - 12:00 pm Comment from: Lord Arawn

Actually globewriter UNIX and the internet growth were intertwined. The internet was UNIX boxes. It was only in the late 80's early 90's that Microsoft tried to get Windows on the net... Well they did but it was not secure and still is not..... So one (UNIX) was born for internetworking and the other (Windows) was a standalone system from birth juryrigged for the internet...

Nov 29, 05 - 12:00 pm Comment from: XXX

hey there . . . the one true ron™

you need to go have sex with a man and get over it. The fag that you hate the most is the one inside your head!!

seriously
XXX

Nov 29, 05 - 12:00 pm Comment from: dogfriend

bipolar

Nov 29, 05 - 12:04 pm Comment from: Ron is a FAG!

MAC is a toy that can't play game

That's funny! and oxymoronic, good work Ron you Douche

Nov 29, 05 - 12:08 pm Comment from: globewriter

Arawn. I suppose, then, it might be safe to say that the Internet was "born" out of UNIX boxes? I read recently that Tim Berners-Lee used a NeXT box when he was developing the web...which i know used an adaptation of UNIX.

I have to say though, having recently used a friend's Windows machine ( that is slower than my Macs), it seemed to load web pages noticeably faster..perhaps it is just my imagination.

Thanks for the informative comments.

Nov 29, 05 - 12:21 pm Comment from: Lord Arawan

'I suppose, then, it might be safe to say that the Internet was
"born" out of UNIX boxes? I read recently that Tim Berners-Lee used a
NeXT box when he was developing the web...which i know used an adaptation of UNIX. '

globewriter, I would say you summed it up well. Doesn't surprise me that the father of WWW used a unix based computer. You have to remember that back in the early 80's most if not all "REAL" computer research was done in labs with UNIX or IBM mainframes....

Nov 29, 05 - 12:36 pm Comment from: bikersrule

Dear Bill,

Mate you're dead right. As painful as it is when anew operating system comes along Mac users often have to dump heaps of old software. Ouch! In the final analysis we end up with a new operating system.

Putting it another way, I was talking with one of the I.T. teachers at the college where I teach and Sandy put it this way:

" Because macs use a new operating system it's like a building being constructed on a new foundation. Windows on the other hand is more of 'come one come all' operating system. Everything will run but the foundation is old and unstable."

In the long run mac users do experience financial pain in having to dump perfectly good programs but the upside is a modern and stable operating system.

Nov 29, 05 - 12:51 pm Comment from: globewriter

Oh yes, the halcyon days of the early 80s. I remember PL1, APL, COBOL and my punchcards strewn all over the place. Not to mention the IIe, IIc and my Amstrad ( ok...that was late 80s)..

Nov 29, 05 - 12:54 pm Comment from: MacWrath

globewriter: Not your imagination. I have had the same unexplainable page loading experiences. It is frustrating and an obvious notch in the WinTel belt. Broadband Optimizer did not (neither Apple's nor the original freeware version by another maker) seem to improve things discernably.

One of the Mac's obvious weak points is it's slow rendering (by comparison). This alone gives Windoze apologists the ammunition to discredit their only previous nod to the Mac, "It's better for graphics". Although this statement is most often used when referring to graphics/video production the average user still thinks of graphics as pictures rendered on the screen.

Thank God that the OS is finally making SOME headway in the mindshare of those that help to steer the ship: the IT Admins (non-windows geeks of which I am a proud member), the popular press, and everyday users for whom speed is never an issue as long as the machine keeps up reasonably well.

Nov 29, 05 - 01:22 pm Comment from: Macaday

alvarez said: "For all of you that are trying to be funny by mocking Thurrot you'll see that this is basically the same message he's been preaching all year."

No alvarez, I think you will actually find that Mr Thurrott has had a period of schizophrenia, he's jumped around so much in his views, his agonising, even perhaps his metamorphasis (?) that he even confused himself at times. It seems he might be coming out the other side now...

Nov 29, 05 - 01:22 pm Comment from: Petey

There are already viri out for Windblows Vista and it's not even out of beta!

Imagine how many lovley windows viri are gonna on the net when it finally gets released!

I look forward to the press about how many viri are crippling Windows Vista afew days after it's launch.

LOL!

Get a Mac you idiots!

Nov 29, 05 - 01:22 pm Comment from: Michael Cheung

"Second, and perhaps most damagingly, the millions of available Windows applications out there today all assume that the user has total control of the system.So Vista will have to be kludged in an unprecedented way to accommodate backwards compatibility. The way it will do so is messy, and involves virtual folder structures that fool legacy applications into believing that they are accessing an older Windows version."

This made me laugh! Probably the #1 reason for all windows users citing as the key reason for staying with Microsoft.... and now its going to be swiped form under their feet.
It sure is nice to see Thurott make sense at last. I do pity the guy that he loves Windows so much, but is frustrated that MS is not doing enough to make it competitive.
Lord Awarn: I like your comments. Very insightful to hear from your personal experience at that time. When I was at university, 90% of all computer room clusters were UNIX machines for the very purpose you stated... it all makes sense now.

Nov 29, 05 - 01:30 pm Comment from: Michael Cheung

Petey,
I was at one of the Microsoft Tech-Ed seminars, and asked that very question about the early virii on Vista. The guys (Steve Riley and Jesper Johansson, who are funny guys really!) said they they didn't see it as a problem. They said that it was in fact preferable to have it being declared BEFORE the final release so it can be patched there and then. Much better than having it exposed after release. Kind of like sub-contracting security testing to hackers, I guess.

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