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Actually, the "brainers" will continue to buy PC hardware much cheaper than Apple sells them for, and run a cracked version of OSX if they so choose to.

Since when did breaking the law and stealing shit become smart?

When it comes to computing, nothing is a no-brainer. While we who choose to compute using the Apple platform think we've got it good, many people who choose otherwise feel they have it equally good.

It really isn't that difficult to keep your PC healthy, surprisingly. Yeah there's a ridiculous number of exploitable holes, it's not difficult at all to block people from being able to exploit them.

This mentality of PC people being "no-brainers" is exactly why the Mac has lost market share. When we as a community decide to quit shitting on everyone else because they choose a different methodology in computing, and start actually trying to showcase to those people what better computing is all about, then inroads will be made.

As long as everyone keeps drawing childish lines on the playground, reinforcing the us vs. them credo, the Mac will have trouble gaining converts.

Article 11 of about 685 on this topic we'll see over the next year.

I just hope it doesn't create a backlash. There are a number of reasons why this might not be a "no-brainer" but if people come to expect it thanks to constant repetition in the press, they might be disappointed when the Intel Macs roll out next summer.

Even if it doesn't come true, one thing is clear: no one is talking about MS and Longwait these days.

Given the choice between Apple's GUI interface and the much more sophisticated and .Net compatible forthcoming Longhorn OS, most users will choose Longhorn.

Simply put, as those in the real IT world know, with e-commerce becoming a large and intergral part of the computing experiences, custs will want the ability to use .Net to navigate e-retail. Apple simply cannot offer that.

I am mocked openly here but I will continue to be the lone voice of reason, showing everyone the future or the world is bright and that as we get more intergrated with the Internet as an indispensable part of our lives, .Net and MS will lead the way.

©

"This mentality of PC people being "no-brainers" is exactly why the Mac has lost market share. When we as a community decide to quit shitting on everyone else because they choose a different methodology in computing, and start actually trying to showcase to those people what better computing is all about, then inroads will be made.

As long as everyone keeps drawing childish lines on the playground, reinforcing the us vs. them credo, the Mac will have trouble gaining converts."

My response
http://www.apple.com/retail

If the virus hackers havent "cracked" OSX yet, what makes you think they will in order to run it on PC's?

Sputnik, come to Earth. You missed the last news: Longhorn is not going to support .Net . It has been removed from the Longhorn initial features.

And I am not kidding. Only a minimal part, inadequate to do any ecommerce will be in Longhorn when released.

Sorry to give you the bad news.

PS
I lied: I AM NOT SORRY :D

RUBBISH!

thank you cpt. obvious.....no really, thank you.

and hammer, how is that a "response"? maybe i'm missing something..but that seemed off topic (apple retail)

Cpt. Obvious...If you have the time, I'd like to introduce you to a hundred Windows using friends that seem to be having trouble keeping their PCs healthy.

you guys are all dolts.

Sputnik is obviously a representive of Windoze IT droids.

Why even respond?

it amazes me that so many of you fall for sputnik's hilarious baiting. As others have noted, sputnik is a mac-fan but a brilliant satirist who makes subtle digs at MS/Longhorn within his own "ms-fanboy" comments. I'm sure he derives great pleasure from the squeals of protest from the self-appointed mac-defenders. (He KNOWS that .net is crippled in Longhorn and simply baited one of you into pointing that out.)

His act reminds me of the hilarious Phil Hendry radio show. Hendry plays hilariously outrageous characters on the radio for about 10 minutes, elicits self-righteous protest calls from first-time listeners driving home from work (in s. calif.), then spends the rest of his hour laughing with long-time listeners at the suckers who fell for the bait. brilliant.

I, for one, welcome our new MS/Longhorn overlords...

Far from promoting a "get two computers for the price of one" angle, Apple has stated it won't even acknowledge publicly that Windows will work on a MacIntel box.

Which means Apple will never give ANY positive recognition to the existence of OS X's arch-rival product.

Instead Apple will target new markets by saying:
Here's a MacIntel,
Here's OS X
Here's your legacy Applications
Voila! they work together!

This will be a major factor. Apple has said they will not support this but also not do anything to prevent it. I actually think it might be cool if they DID support it. Once users have a chance to actually use both, most will end up using the OS X almost all the time.

At my little sisters house they have 4 computers. 3 windoze machines and an iBook. Which computer do you think everyone is always fighting to get on? I'll give you a hint - its white. hehehe

With both OS's in, it will be known as " The Agony and the Ecstasy Mac"

posner, old MDN posters know Sputnik very well. But remember, as with all comics he needs from time to time a *shoulder* so to have a reply. Otherwise s/he will fall silent and we would miss good all laughs from time to time from lost-in-space-Sputnik old debris.

Wow, I read the full article and these reporters are really reporters! They actually did their homework and asked a bunch of experts to get the full lowdown. The article is mostly in a question/answer format and the answers are all pretty much dot on. That is really refreshing.

Check out http://bugmenot.com/ if you don't want to sign up to read the article.

hammer: "When we as a community decide to quit shitting on everyone else because they choose a different methodology in computing.."

It isn't a case of that. The shitting is on the people who promote Windows or all things MS; have never tried Mac; and unbelievably, like to promote FUD on all things Apple!

Those fold deserve ALL the sh1t that falls on them.

AND, as 90% of Mac users here are experienced in Windows, the same criticism cannot be levelled in reverse.

Um, no, it wouldn't be smart to advertise two computers for the price of one. Every time someone buys a Mac, they would have to spend something like a couple of hundred dollars to buy Windows. Why would Apple encourage people to BUY the Microsoft product that made them rich?

any idiot can pirate a copy of Winblows. Its not very hard.

iPodder -- i understand your point. Fortunately the supply of bait-takers appears to be infinite.
So bring it on, sputnik. In my new position as legitimate russian journalist, i poo upon your shameless MS/commie apologism.

Sputnik, get a job. If you have one, your boss must be thick.

wow, that didn't take long!

"get two computers for the price of one" I couldn't of said it better myself. If you buy a wintel you can only use it as a wintel. If you buy a mactel well...
How about someone who uses the Apple to run Windows, (for those who would), then they go on the web using Apple's internet connection instead of explorer?

I always find it kinda funny to hear "the best of both worlds" whith Microsoft being one of those worlds !

If MS Windows is such a poor OS, why are Mac users so excited by the possibility of having access to it???

It will become a no-brainer when Apple finally wakes up and gets rid of the counfounded single-button idiot mouse. I use it, but I guarantee you Windows user will hate it. I expect we'll see a great multi-function mouse soon, at least I hope so.

I'm going to go to the extreme on this... 6 months before Longhorn's release, Apple should start an aggressive "Our hardware is Longhorn ready!" campaign to sell its Intel hardware to people looking forward to Longhorn. Of course, it will ship with MacOS X 10.[4/5] installed. It's possible the user will never end up buying Longhorn after using it. But even if they do... them buying the Mac means more revenue for Apple to make 10.6 even better.

Sammy and Sputnik are the names used by the same asshole who tries to incite people on this site. Ignore him!! Unless MDN uses him to increase hits.

Sputnik is far from the voice of reason. He's more the voice of the unimformed. Half of all businesses are still using Windows 2000.

See:
http://www.techspot.com/news/17841-Half-of-businesses-still-use-Windows-2000.html

They are not .Net compatible, they are not looking to move to Longhorn, if and whenever it comes out. The only way Microsoft can force these people onto XP is by CHARGING THEM A TAX for remining on 2000.

Pathetic.

Sputnik cannot be real. No one has that level of blind love for MS. I work in a .NET environment (C# and SQL) all day at work along with a ton of other developers. Not one of them doesn’t go a day without cursing MS. And I never hear any excitement generated over Longwait. In fact, many of them also own Macs at home.

Work with MS all day, can’t wait to go home to my Mac.

At this point I don't think Apple is considering letting Windows run alongside OSX. If they don't somehow partition the OS and hard drive to run each system, it won't likely happen. Just because Windows can be emulated on a PowerPC (a software, not a hardware emulation), doesn't mean it will run any easier on an Intel chip with MacOSX on board. Running Windows may still require Virtual PC to run on OSX. Once again, it may not be the chip, but the operating system that must be dealt with.

C O N S U M E R S won't dual boot, most don't even know what that means. Get out of geekdom and revel in some reality:

Joe sixpack is NOT going to pay a Mac tax to buy otherwise commodity Intel hardware in a shiny case. Further, he is NOT going to dole out another $200 to buy an additional copy of Windows XP and repartition his hard drive. Most machines sold today don't even come with an XP CD. Instead, the XP software is stored on a "recovery partition" to only allow you a reinstall to the same hardware. This dual boot nonsense makes sense to the Slashdot readers, but no one else.

Regardless if I could run Windows on a Mac why run Windows on a Mac at all?

I have enough issues as an earthling. I see no good reason to compound my problems with Windows. much less take wup space on my hardrive.

I must say, as much as I think Mac OS X is better than Windows. I believe having Intel-Mac able to run Windows might be such a great idea as people believe it to be.

I have quiet a few friends that bought Mac and then declared them hard to use in the beginning because they are too used to the Windows' way. They eventually find out how much better Mac OS X really was and became true switchers, but I think the process does take some time for seasoned Windows users (novice users have no such problems).

So if Intel-Mac can run Windows, then perhaps they would just install Windows to avoid the uncomfort. People are lazy, and if we give them a chance, they usually would prefer to go with what they already know, even if the new solution is times better.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve,

You're right mate. I just convinced my sister to switch to an eMac and she's floundering. One example, her documents that I emailed back to my sister have "disappeared". Buggered if I know where they've gone to.

All I said was to drag them to the desktop and then turn them into Appleworks documents. Sounds easy as all get out, but she's lost the plot.

She now realises that she needs a third party "how to" book. I think I'll also enrol her into a seminar or two at one of the resellers. How many Windows will do this on their own. Hmmm.

As an IT manager in a Windows environment, if the Macs run Windows, I'd consider them as genuine alternative to Dells. Why wouldn't you?

Reasons to run Windows programs on a Mac

a. You're a switcher who wants to ease into Mac OS
b. You're in a company/enterprise that has to run a specific app not yet ported to MAC OS X
c. You're a developer who wants to run programs in both OS's
d. You're a hard core gamer who wants to run the latest games

Ways to run Windows programs on a Mac

a. Dual boot - Install Windows and Mac OS X - reboot to get the other OS - only want to be file compatible between OS's
b. Emulation - Run Windows apps within a window of Mac OS X - lets you copy and paste between OS's
c. Use and pay for a MS OS or run an open source OS like Wine, run Windows apps and don't pay MS anything

Why use Mac

a. Mac OS X - The best OS out there (so say various PC luminairies), quality integration, the latest technologies, a fantastic suite of programs
b. Mac Hardware - Just Works, quality componenets, an excellent mix of technologies, an early adopter of usefull technologies
c. Security by design - no virii, malware, or fear of going on the Internets or downloading files (We all know Windows has lots of holes, Longhorn [supposedly] also will have security by design, Mac OS x has always had it)

So all you FUDers: We'll just have to wait to see how Apple implements Intel in the Mac. Apple has lots of options. They can target consumers or the enterprise. They can maintain strict hardware control or loosen it up a bit. Whatever apple does, I'll bet on faster and more capable systems.

Steve:

One of my customers is a fairly successful toy/games manufacturer. In 2004, I "switched" the MD to a 17" PowerBook - on the basis that he wanted to be able to record the life of his newborn - and also "switched" his global licensing manager to a 15" on the grounds that he was going to roving around the world and I wanted him using a stable system that was seamlessly wireless and secure.

Neither of these guys are "techno-geeks", and both were a little sceptical when I first sold them the idea: however, I never, or at least rarely, hear from either of them.

I've had two calls from the licensing manager in nine months - lost his printers after a Win2003 server rebuild (easier for me to reconfigure his printers than tell him how to do it) and his home Airport Express [the one for his stereo] became invisible (a Bonjour problem) which he proudly fixed himself by power-cycling the unit.

One call from the MD, which turned out to be a problem with his home ADSL router (a D-Link wireless unit) that needed a firmware upgrade following his move to some sleepy backwater village that was literally at the edge of the envelope for DSL performance.

My point is that two previously "satisfied" (i.e. didn't know any better) Windows users have been switched, no longer bug me on a weekly basis, and have both voluntarily (i.e. with no prompting) mentioned how much they love using their Macs: the MD even volunteered an "ex gratia" bonus to their recent retainer renewal on the basis of his satisfaction.

Once Mactels are in the wild and the rest of this company's inventory is fully paid off (2007 onwards), I'm going to switch the rest of the company to Mac leaving only their accounts system as a legacy app accessed through Virtual PC or VMWare or whatever solution manifests itself (I'd still like to see Rhapsody's Red Box implemented). They'll get an easier to use system, I'll be able to spend more of the retainer on making their company more efficient as opposed to support. a general "win-win" for everyone.

I know this story may not suit every scenario, but it shows what might be possible in the new Mactel world…

It think this will be great for the business market:
Booting the Mac using XP - with networking disabled, of course -, a beancounter can run his/her pet business programs.
Rebooting into OS-X, the internet and email is at his/her fingertips with never a worry in the world.
Same goes for every security-sensitive job. Do the drudgery in Windows, switch to MacOS for the fun and the creative work.

"If Intel-based Macs can run Mac OS X and Windows, buying a Mac will be a no-brainer"

unless one can run OSX on cheap hardware. Then getting such a machine is the real no-brainer.

I know that nobody here likes that remark, out of fear that Apple will not be able to boost hardware sales, or maybe that that OSX on feck knows what kind of cheap parts will be not as stable as on the real thing, but I'm convinced it'll happen.

and Cpt. Obvious: - my thoughts exactly.

As I said before, if Apple successfully makes the very same PPC Mac unable to boot anymore on Mac OS 9, why it would be difficult for them to make OS X only boot on Apple hardware?

The CPU alone is not the only factor and it does not need to be limited to a sw feature that some wise guy could crack.

I guess that my Windows background makes me more pessimistic about the ability of any software and/or hardware manufacturer to protect his intellectual property from determined wizkids/hardcore crackers.

And then I'm not even mentioning a 'leak' from Apple. Are we all so sure that they don't see the future as one in which a market dominating OSX provides them with enough moolah to be able to continue building the Rolls Royces of the personal computer world, for which there will never be more than a limited market, because the average user will always choose the cheaper option, regardless of quality? That last principle is what made M$ what they are today.

Are we all too young here to remember Rhapsody? Rhapsody Dev releases where running on both x86 and PPC processors, the difference was in legacy support Rhapsody native apps ran in what was called a "yellow box", and this was a cross platform app capable of running under x86 or PPC. On the PPC side there was what was called "blue box" which was a similar construct to how classic works now. And finally on the x86 was the "red box" allowing legacy support for windows applications. There is no reason why this will not be something that could be brought out, besides, I don't see any reason why WINE wouldn't work

Installing XP will not be a feature of the Mactels, it will be a hack. I can't really see businesses making purchase decisions based on this hack, since it will probably interfere with their AppleCare, and overall support from Apple. If people still want to run XP, then they will have have to buy a Wintel box. Besides, why the hell would anyone buy a Mac and not use OS X? It would akin to buying a Porsche, but swapping the engine with a VW Bug.