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"Steve Jobs will see it as an opportunity to move more of his tanks on to Microsoft's lawn"

Apple just crossed the Rhine!!

Does this necessarily mean that Apple will use an existing Intel chip or could a new architecture be in the works?

MDN magic word "straight" as in: "Job's tank corp went straight on to Redmond."

I know that Apple tends to push forward new technology like USB, Firewire, etc etc before there is necessarily a demand (dragging us kicking and screaming into the future) while the rest of the comodity box PC world pretty much waits for demand before following. Or they wait until a competitor does it then they are forced to in order to compete. For a company like Intel which does better when newer technology is bought I could see Apple having a higher standing with them, disproportianate with their installed base.

For better AND worse Apple is more like a Dictatorship...or actually a Republic then a Democracy, and so iMacs suddenly didn't have floppy drives despite the fact their was no demand to drop it. They went to USB despite their customers having invested in ASB peripherals, they added firewire (forcing us to pay for it when buying a new Mac) despite their not being much to take advantage of it at the time, and now they move to Intel. For a company like Intel that usually has to work within the more democratic arena of the PC world, where demand usually has to come from the bottom up, they must feel like they are held back from innovating too far from the fold.

Having Apple as a customer for their CPUs may be their way to come up with newer technologies that the rest of the PC world would not pick up because it would cause a disruption like those previously mentioned without their even being a demand. Once Apple leads away with it the rest of the PC world will be much more likely to follow. As always we Mac users are on the forefront.

Of course it would seem that may be more long term thinking or completely wrong altogether in the face of the fact that Apple is having developers use a Pentium 4 to move their software over. If it was some radically new chip then what would be the point of that.

"Apple has announced that it will be releasing its own spoiler around that time in the form of Mac OS X Leopard."

The spoiler was already released, it was called Tiger! Leopard will just be the icing on the cake (or the final nail in the coffin).

Uhm, yet another slow news day.

INTEL

- needs to showcase its technology, possibly shrinkwrapped in top-design, something Apple excels at;

- needs to cut the wires connecting it to crappy, bugged, virused OS (read windows) i.e. needs to polish and reestablish a reputation.;

- needs vision

APPLE

- needs fast portables, possibly NOT power hungry;

- needs a path for the next decade;

- needs at least 60 fps in Doom 3 and a way to grant a cheap switching path for people that invested a lot of dough in software for windows;

- has vision

...

Groundless most ridiculous prediction for late 2006:

BG and SJ already agree to MS to buyout Apple. When buyout is announced, BG will remain Chairman and SJ will become iCEO (again) and BB will be forced out. When Apple releases Leopard, they will announce the buyout and also officially rename Leopard to Windows 2006 (Longhorn).

Customers
-don´t want to have to buy new software and hardware every two years...

"more democratic arena of the PC world"
I would not call "PC world" democratic. They were duopoly, Intel and MS. Intel pushed PC vendors to have USB on all PCs long time before Apple implemented USB on Mac, but MS did not ship a stable driver for USB on Windows until after Apple shipped their Mac with USB ports, so USB remained unused ports on PC for few years. For Intel, MS was a heavy anchor dragging them back. With Apple on its team, Intel may able to play MS and Apple against each other to push their technologies out to market faster (not that Apple needs the push. If any thing, Apple and Intel will play on each other to intensify their march toward new technologies).

"Customers
-don´t want to have to buy new software and hardware every two years..."

Agreed, especially now that it'll be the same chips as in a Dell. Apple will put commodity hardware in a fancy case and charge a premium for it. Wintel users will continue to scoff as they will still have to buy in to proprietary Apple hardware to run OS X. This is going nowhere.

Why don't you wait for a shipping product before blathering unsubstantiated nonsense.

Still keep wondering about long term future of Mac software other than from Apple. If virtualPC can run well enough on a MacIntel, why bother making Mac versions at all. There has to be some over-riding advantage to hooking into OS X abilities, otherwise we end up running everything thru VPC/Windows. Doesn't Apple then become much like Sony, making attractive, higher end PCs, but Pcs none the less. "Look people, run all your crap windows apps, only now you are secure from etc etc."

macnut222: "Why don't you wait for a shipping product before blathering unsubstantiated nonsense."

It's about time someone said something sensible.

The bottom line is Market Share Gain. Steve has been after that since he came back and keeps adjusting his attack. It has been starting to happen already and I think this bold move will further that end tho it may cause a slight dip in the short-term.

"Apple may be prepping for attack on Microsoft in late 2006"

Yeah, if it can make it to late 2006. iBooks haven't been updated in close to 9 months, PowerBooks with no upcoming update roadmap (and looking a bit pricy these days), and eMac's looking grossly outdated.

Who wants to buy an Apple other than an imac these days?

"Yeah, if it can make it to late 2006."

What are you talking about?!?!? Apple has over $6 billion in the bank, if they have to take a few lousy quarters, they can afford to do so. I think Apple will release their first Intel-powered system at Macworld SF - PowerBooks (and maybe iBooks) are my bet.

No one doubts Apple's cash reserve (and was not the point of my post). That's not the issue. Can Apple afford to loose valuable mindshare if they appear to have slowed their product releases. Will they loose future customers who have lost faith in Apple being the leader in their sector?

Apple's bank balance cannot and should not be always used as an excuse.

…Meanwhile, the Microsoft platform went with Intel.…

There was no "Microsoft Platform" twenty years ago. Microsoft gathered in the Intel platform. They did it very well. No denying that, but I get sick of false comparisons and staged arguments. Apparently, getting paid to write guarantees writers will make stuff up to get paid.

No, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, but I still have hope for us all.

Wouldn´t it be ironic if Apple now releases a PowerMac with a 3+Ghz chip????

stantheman raises the issue of Apple losing mindshare. This is a bit of a concern and that's why many feel there is something else that is big just around the corner. But it won't be a Mac desktop or laptop. Something that can compete for mindshare with Xbox and Playstation (but not an Apple game console).

Of course, with Longhorn not ready until the end of 2006 and all the Windows box makers just spewing out the same old same old since the OS isn't ready to take advantage of anything, there doesn't seem much competition for mindshare in computers anyway.

By the way, stantheman, you (and many others) need to know the difference between "lose" and "loose". If you used Mac OS, the system-wide dictionary would certainly be of use.

wordcheck - wrong-o.
word check will show that "lose" and "loose" are both spelled correctly. It will not change anything. Word check does not analyze a sentence and then determine if the usage is correct. It just checks speling....

Apple losing mindshare. This is a bit of a concern

------------


lmfao!!!!!

Excuse me.. I've only seen about 243 iPod ads in the last week..

hahahahahahahahahha

what's that you say? There's an Apple Store within 20 minutes of 80% of the US? Fascinating...

mac-aholic: that is a concern. But that's why Apple introduced things like Spotlight, Dashboard, and Automator in Tiger. Those items would not be accessible to Windows apps. We will likely see more such apps-to-OS tie-ins or special kinds of apps in Leopard. And once users see the advantages, users may choose apps that take advantage of great OS features over the isolated Windows app in the box.

What I love is Apple now is squeezing MS from at least two directions. First, the pressure is on MS to take advantage of every advance that Intel makes because if they don't, Apple will, and Windows-based hardware will look last century by comparison. As it is, those Windows hardware partners are leery of MS taking the living room for themselves through the Xbox, leaving those partners to fight for the consumer scraps.

Second, Apple's move to iTunes, which is a Web-based client-server apps for the average consumer. First came music, now podcasts, and who knows what's next. This allows Apple to establish a beach-head inside Windows. MS does have .Net for developers and MSN through a browser for the public. Will the consumer prefer a dedicated media app like iTunes (virus-free so far) or a browser-accessed store like MSN music to acquire their media?

Apple's strategy is intriguing, and I am certain more pressure points will be revealed in the next few months as Apple takes on MS from more and more directions (i.e., the future of iWork)

not wordcheck: you misunderstand.

I didn't tell stantheman to use wordcheck. I told him to look up the meaning of lose and loose, so that he would use the word lose instead of loose. Or do you not know the difference, either?

"Can Apple afford to loose valuable mindshare if they appear to have slowed their product releases. Will they loose future customers who have lost faith in Apple being the leader in their sector?"

"loose valuable mindshare" - sounds like setting your mind on high-priced hookers.
"lose valuable mindshare" - would be giving up space in people's minds.

"loose future customers" - sounds like pre-teens who aren't on a leash
"lose future customers" - would be foregoing revenue from people who might've bought your product

Whatever happened to the English language?

mike: laugh all you want.

But something big is coming from Apple. Can't say for sure when since Jobs has to make sure it's just right.

It would be much more profitable to release before Christmas than to have to wait until MacWorld SF. Of course, if the next round of iPods can carry Apple through Christmas, then Jobs can certainly wait to use it as a post-Christmas boost.

Hey wordcheck, leave not wordcheck alone. He must use a Windows PC and doesn't know what a system-wide DICTIONARY is; all he knows is wordcheck.

hahahaha

I think the author meant to say: "Apple will tank before it reaches Microsoft's lawn."

Strategy: No one is buying iWork, so I wouldn't consider any future product under that name to be a "attack" on Microsoft.

By 2007, the marketing campaign will have gone from "Think Different" to "Anyone Remember Apple?"

I knew I could bait someone to respond by mentioning iWork.

iWork's future is still unsettled but if Apple deems it to be an important future avenue of attack, you can bet Pages and Keynote will be enhanced, and the whole suite beefed up with a spreadsheet and some version of Filemaker. And all of iWork smoothly linked to iLife and Apple's audio/video apps.

If MS had refused to guarantee Office for Intel-based Macs, don't you think such an upgraded iWork would've been ready to go by 2006?

Loose-Lose
It's got to be one of the most misspelled words in the internet. Don't know why, but it drives me crazy -

I wish I could remember how to spell 'different' - always want to use one f.

mac-a-holic: "If virtualPC can run well enough on a MacIntel, why bother making Mac versions at all."
May be "virtualPC" will run Wintel software better than Windows. Apple will have to bypass Windows OS to achieve this goal, but it is a possibility with Wine.

hey man, what ever it is that you're smoking please take it out of your pipe and get professional help.

"MS to buyout Apple"

get professional help man, seriously.

I have no interest whatsoever in having Windows on any machine I own

Very interesting thread; some very thoughtful ideas about Apple's future.

But the only thing I have to add at this point is that I completely and utterly concur that people on the Internet need to sort out loose vs. lose. I don't think I ever saw a single person confuse those two words before the Internet entered popular culture, and now it is just completely out of control. And I'm sorry to say it, but people look really, really dumb when they do that (unless English is not their first language, but I don't think that's the case the majority of the time).

And then of course, there's there, their and they're, but don't get me started.

"to s"
It was meant as a joke. However, the idea does make sense for MS. Longhorn is not going any where. It is like Apple's pink, talligent and copland projects. As Apple bought NeXT to fix the problem, MS can buy Apple to fix their OS problem. With OSX moving to Intel, MS/Apple can implement Silicon (Windows API), in addition to Cabon (Mac Toolbox) and Cocoa (NeXT Step).

Yup, feeling crazy just like you guys, ed and mac user 47.

stantheman is sort of a troll here, so I couldn't resist tweaking him just a bit... but not wordcheck pushed me over the edge.

imagine next months Microsoft announces Longhorn will only be made for the PPC processor [aka IBM] and no more X86 versions, just hypothetically, wouldn't that piss Steve off

Re: VirtualPC used as an excuse not to create Windows apps.

I doubt it. Remember, on OS 9, Virtual PC ran pretty dang fast, fast enough to play all but the most graphic-intensive games. I don't recall VPC being used as an excuse not to create Mac software. Oh, there was a dearth of software, but there were other excuses.

I think that the switch is not to step on microsoft toes but more to be more flexible and for the fact that a G5 powerbook is long due.

There is also talk that Apple might be thinking of buying Intel out then what would Microsoft do?

Dotwind

remember - there is no way around it...

I can go either way. I can either take Apple straight after Microsoft or not. Honestly, its all up to Microsoft, to be frank. Our software is going to make Longhorn look silly.. it does now - but wait till leopard... we will have a very very compelling consumer AND business OS strategy.. a "Red Box" based on the Wine project (a la KHTML) that will "just run" those few and far between Windows-only apps every business has - plus we'll be able to tout our still - in 2006 - NO VIRUSES platform, all while running on the same hardware that you have now.

Sure, we'll make the high end, well built, quality component boxes we always have, plus very very sexy make you drool laptops by spring next year.... but then ,but the end of 06 - we will release Leopard on the masses - at $150 a piece, it slams XP and whatever finally comes out of Redmond by mid 2007 - the actual release date of Longhorn.

or not.

you see - we have the choice. We have no pressing NEED to launch a software offenseive against Microsoft... but if the public demands it with the release of the iTunes Music Video store and the iTunes TV Show store - both of which require iTunes 5.0 and Mac OS X - which _COULD_ run on any sucky Dell with a fast enough processor - then we can launch against Microsoft.

Or, we can continue to be the player we are - with about 10% of market share by the end of 2006 - make money, be happy, and simply ignore Windows users beyond their penchant for buying iPods like crack hoars buying .. well, crack.

I can sit back, continue to innovate, keep making amazing non-mac prodcuts, and then decide at the time of my choosing when we do or do not bother to go head to head against Microsoft for the desktop.

Honestly - i don't care all that much. I just want to make great products.. we'll fill a niche when it opens up, or we'll stay where we are, going out of business for the last 20 years, innovating the hell out of things, and watching everyone follow our lead (poorly, and without the quality we put into it)

honestly - its up to Microsoft to see how badly they fsck up the Longhorn launch.. until then, we will do what we will do - which is kick ass and make insanely great products.

What is WINE? I've only started hearing it since the Intel announcement and I am curious.

P.s. Yes, I did check my dictionary widget, I'm not some looser.

What a bunch of loosers!

lose loose
wordcheck - it is a typo error, not a usage errrrorrrr.
"looz" is how it should be spelt.

Wordcheck:
"loose valuable mindshare" - sounds like setting your mind on high-priced hookers.

Hookers, eh? Well, we know where your mind is oriented.
And they are not "hookers" (people that fish?) they are prostitutes.
I hate it when people use cheap slang words, instead of the correct word usage.

unWordcheck

Hookers may smell like people that fish, but actually they have sex for money.

i think this is what everyone is refering to:

http://darwine.opendarwin.org//

"I doubt it. Remember, on OS 9, Virtual PC ran pretty dang fast, fast enough to play all but the most graphic-intensive games. I don't recall VPC being used as an excuse not to create Mac software. "

MathCAD
AutoCAD
Matlab (since then, they did come back to OSX)
Quickbook (ditto)

I'm sure there are more applications, who stopped supporting MacOS and suggested their Mac customers to get a copy of Virtual PC (or actually SoftWindows or PC card at the time. Virtual PC came much later.).

ed

Don't forget your and you're. Drives me nuts!

Uniformed Wondering "comodity box PC world"

Or is that comedy box PC world?