MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

GD, if I haven't been on the receiving end of that old water cooler conversation more times than once!

I think you're onto something here.

A more likely scenario is this:

- Hey Bob, I just bought a new Mac.
- What's a Mac?

Unless Apple advertises no one will know.

Wouldn't you be opening your computer up to the same windows virues ?
I have never used Window's in my personal life, so I only use Excel and word @ Work.

Is there any guarantee that Windows will run on the Macintel? If Apple is still doing its own mobo design and chipset, then Windows might not work and I doubt Microsoft is going to make it work.

I hopeful that we'll soon see quite a few very interesting and appealing promotional campaigns directed toward alerting the public about the dual-boot opportunities in the new Macs. Should neither Intel nor Apple ultimately pick up the ball on this, it would nonetheless seem likely that the software developers themselves would be anxious to heavily promote their own dual OS compatible versatility in this regard.

The problem with a dual-boot system is, what incentive do developers have to write software for the Mac OS? It's the OS/2 Warp scenario, and you gotta believe Apple is conscious of that.

If apple could package windows on their pcs, what's to keep dell from packaging OSX on theirs?

The problem with a dual-boot system is, what incentive do developers have to write software for the Mac OS? It's the OS/2 Warp scenario, and you gotta believe Apple is conscious of that.

This is what scares me the most. Windows[-only] developers are lazy enough to not offer their solutions for 2 different hardware platforms, so what will be different when the Mac is pretty much the same hardware platform as the PC and the operating system becomes the only differentiator. Maybe Apple and Intel are doing something special CPU-wise for the Macintels.

The percentage of "Average" computer users who don't know what an OS is probably more like 90 to 95%. I still get amazed when my college educated clients (and friends) think that when you swap out the monitor, you're changing the computer or some just think that the monitor is the computer. I always chuckle to myself. But when I try and explain that the monitor is an output device, they give me this blank stare. By this time, I am dying on the inside. More people are ignorant to computers than you would think. Trust me, an iMac terrifies these "average" computer users.

dank,

apple is the one keeping dell from packaging OSX on their machines. apple owns OSX and macs-microsoft only owns windows and sell licenses to dell et al, so theoretically apple could bundle XP with their computers. apple makes computers and software, microsoft only makes software.

Cool, finally software developers dont't have to waste their time to Macintosh specific application development, because there will be native Windows or fast Virtual PC on MacTel machines. Windows market share will increase with ~3%, thanks Steve Jobs.

I am buying a PowerMac G5 now because it has been time for me to get a new Mac for a while. I was waiting for the G5 Powerbook but now it looks like that is never gonna happen. The G5 kicks right now; it just wasn't gonna develop fast enough. My current Macs (a 667 G4 Powerbook and a 800 Flat Screen G4 iMac) are getting long in the tooth and are too slow to do some of the things I want to do. So it makes sense for me to get the G5 now cuz it will stay current plenty long AND I have been wanting a G5 for two years now.

BUT, I will have to keep my 667 Tibook limping along until the Intel Mac Laptops come out. I have a 4 year old Vaio from work that hardly ever gets booted up, just once in a while to run some software that my company uses that only runs on windows. I have been trying to get my Company to agree to buy me a new Mac laptop but they have been baulking up to now. I am hoping that an Intel Mac may turn the tide and get them to fork out for it but even if they don't I will still buy the Mac on my own dollar if I have to. Life is too short and I spent too much of it on a computer to waste part of it by making myself suffer through windows.

However, if I do end up having to buy an Intel Mac Dual Bootable Laptop on my own coin, I think I will probably be able to at least make my company fork over for all the windoze software. Hopefully though, the new Intel Macs will be just what I needed to get them to pay for the whole deal.

I'm curious... two years ago, SteveJack wrote a column on this very web site in which he steadfastly maintained that Apple would never, NEVER demean themselves by using Intel processors or anything else from the PC world. Now, here they are making the Switch to Intel, and he seems perfectly fine with it. My question is, did someone perform a frontal lobotomy on SteveJack, or is he THAT GOOD at self-brainwashing, or what? Has he drank the Intel Kool-Aid? I'd love to see you compare what you've just written to what you wrote two years ago and reconcile your past and present opinions.

Cool, finally software developers dont't have to waste their time to Macintosh specific application development, because there will be native Windows or fast Virtual PC on MacTel machines. Windows market share will increase with ~3%, thanks Steve Jobs.

True, now all those Windoze-only developers can waste all their time building hodge-podge applications for a hodge-podge operating system; Windoze (and the new "what features can we leave out now" OS codenamed; LongOverDue)!

Regarding Developers not bothering to port their software to the Mac, I have to admit, this seems to me to be the biggest worry about the switch too. I think it will have to come down to economics though. If Developers find that they sell more software if they put out a Mac version then they will do it because it will make money for them.

It sounds like it will be a bit complicated to make a Mac dual bootable though; not impossible, but probably more than the average user is gonna want to figure out.

The stealth tactic will be to get them to buy the Mac with the promise that if they don't like OS X, they can always ditch it and switch entirely to windows on it later. In the meantime, maybe throw in an emulator into OS X that will run windows apps at decreased performance, like VPC maybe, good enough but not great - that will allow them to keep using their current copies of windoze apps until it is time to upgrade. At which point they will have tried OS X enough to have drank the Kool-aid and will demand an OS X native app because that is what they prefer to use as their OS.

The trick is to get them in the door and then use this increased user base to motivate the developers to come out with Mac versions.

How do you get them to buy the Mac when it is a bit more expensive than a bargain basement windows only box? Sell them on fewer (read zero) security problems, great design, robustness, longevity, and high resale value. Also the fact that it will be Almighty and can run BOTH systems is a very simple but powerful advantage over windoze-only boxes that will be very easy for consumers to understand. A lot of windoze users have become Mac Curious because of the iPod recently and the Intel Mac will be the perfect tool to take advantage of that.

If Steve plays this right, he will be gaining mega market share, and that will help insure that Mac Versions of apps are produced. He has to gain market share tho. That is what this is all about.

Another day, another MacDailyNews article painting a consistently rosey image of life on a Mac while simultaneously using the train wreck scenario to try and generally describe a day in the life of a Windows user. While I agree that it will be an interesting incentive to be able to purchase a Mac, but still run Windows; doesn't that defeat the purpose of buying a Mac? And isn't using the ability to run Windows as a major selling point only prompting people to buy the computer for the wrong reasons?

In addition to these questions, I'd like to correct the water cooler scenario and offer, in it's place, a more realistic conversion scenario (minus the rosey mac image and the train wreck windows image):

- Hi Bob, I finally broke down and bought a mac today so I could see what all the fuss was about.
- That's awesome Jim, so how is it so far?
- It's alright I guess.
- What do you mean Jim? Isn't it a lot easier to use?
- Well Bob, it's taking a little getting used to. I'm used to running Windows, so I think it'll be a while before I'm actually comfortable using it. I actually installed Windows on it so I could still work, but could use the Mac in my free time.
- Hmm, I guess that's understandable Jim, but what about security? Isn't it nice to go online and not have to worry about getting a virus?
- Well Bob, I never really had any problems with viruses on my old computer, so I couldn't really tell you.
- Hmm, well what's your favorite thing about the Mac, Jim?
- Well, it's pretty. . .I mean they do some cool special effects with the windows and stuff, and the icons are pretty too. You know, I haven't really had much of a chance to do much with the computer. All my software is for windows, so I've used what it came with, but I think I'm going to have to go out and pick up a few more things for it.
- Anything in particular on your shopping list?
- Well, I think I might pick up maybe a game, and a version of office. One thing that's DEFINITELY on my list is a new mouse. I wish they'd give you the option of at least getting one with more than one button. . .and maybe a wheel.

Ok, the scenario has gone on long enough, but I hope you'll find it to be a bit more realistic.

Anyone ever heard of http://www.winehq.com/ ? Its mimics the windows API on x86 unix... Like OSX....

And Mac still wil be more expensive than macs than PC's so i personaly don't believe in the 2 4 1. I think tough the hack that permits to run ( a presumably illegal ) OSX on a Dell will hurt apple.

Despite Apple's Senior Vice President Phil Schiller saying they will not allow OSX to run on any intel PC, I think that there would be so much money to be made by Apple by making OSX run on any PC that this may be the "true" reason for apples switch over to intel. Perhaps saying OSX won't run on any PC now, is just the way to make a big splash later when Apple announces "the new alternative secure OS for everyone".

This link is even more promising..

http://darwine.opendarwin.org//

and remember: you dont have to install windows to run wdows apps

Karl,

SteveJack wrote this for MacDailyNews way back in March 2004:

iPod success paves the way for Mac OS X on X86. People have argued for years for and against the release of Mac OS X on Intel (and AMD) commodity hardware, but Apple derives such a large portion of its revenue from hardware that doing so could potentially damage the company beyond repair. But, what if Apple replaces that lost Mac hardware revenue with iPod revenue?

Steve Jobs would then be free to drop what amounts to a hydrogen bomb on Microsoft. Mac OS X that runs on "regular" off-the-shelf x86 hardware. Or partner with a Sony, for example - to insure quality. Years before "Longhorn" even comes close to shipping. Moo.

LINK

The scenario described by WindowsOrMacOS is very unlikely. A person who is happy with Windows and doesn't have any of the common virus or spyware problems is not going to buy a Mac. They would have no reason to, and the argument that they would not like the Mac OS is hollow at best.

However, such people are rare. Every Windows user I know has had some kind of malware installed on their PC. It cannot be easily avoided and I challenge those PC users who claim to never have had a virus of malicious piece of software to explain how they managed to dodge it. You'll either hear about people who have never connected to the internet or Uber-geeks that can barricade their boxes from invasion, neither of which is a typical user that would benefit from switching to Mac OS.

"- Hmm, I guess that's understandable Jim, but what about security? Isn't it nice to go online and not have to worry about getting a virus?
- Well Bob, I never really had any problems with viruses on my old computer, so I couldn't really tell you."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh that's rich. We just disinfected a staff members laptop of 6566 viruses (as reported by Sophos). I celaned up a system a couple of weeks ago that had 3,400 or so spyware items on it (as reported by Spybot S&D;.) Another spyware-infested system I cleaned up here recently had 70+ spyware processes runngin at once. the damn thing took 20 minutes just to boot up....

It's what Apple had to do, but it's still a sad period for what could have been.
The technical superiority of the PPC is well recognised; that is not in dispute. Unfortunately both IBM and Moto/Freescale have a very low pain threshold. They both had a golden opporunity which would have paid off massively over the coming decades, after a relatively short period of low margin work putting the pieces in place, if they had've stuck to their commitments and had the same massive vision as Apple.
PPC promised great things, and there is no doubting that the I and M of AIM had the ability to deliver, they just needed to focus and see the big picture. A quick financial fix is certainly very attractive (Cell, XB360, etc), but it's no substitute for a vision.

By choking the flag bearer for PPC/Power, one of the most respected technology companies around today, and a company very much on the assendency, they are really just hurting their own futures. Within 10 years, both the former AIM partners will be going "shit". They'll have only themselves to blame.

At no point did Steve Jobs say that Intel was the best platform, it was simply the only option. Perhaps Steve's attire (black shirt with black chinos) was his way of mourning what could have been.

Oh well, at least we might finally see AutoCAD ported to OS X on Intel.

FactChecker,

Yes, I saw that one, but that's not the article I'm referring to... the one I remember was from March 2003 (sadly, it appears to no longer be available... why?), and in it, he slammed any association between Apple and Intel.

And anyway, Apple have stated that OS X won't run on any old PC, just Apple's Intel-based PCs.

"Oh that's rich. We just disinfected a staff members laptop of 6566 viruses (as reported by Sophos). I celaned up a system a couple of weeks ago that had 3,400 or so spyware items on it (as reported by Spybot S&D;.) Another spyware-infested system I cleaned up here recently had 70+ spyware processes runngin at once. the damn thing took 20 minutes just to boot up...."

I think you just underlined what WindowsOrMacOS was trying to say. . .that's an isolated issue and cannot be used to generally refer to the multitude of users' experiences with windows. My daughter lost her entire music archive after installing a simple update from Apple. . .one that was pulled from the site shortly thereafter. She's also on her second iPod due to a dead battery in the first one. Is this representative of every Mac user out there? Not at all. So you've basically made his/her point by taking another "train wreck" scenario and applying it to the entire user base. I'll admit, I'm a Mac advocate for sure, but I'm not going to lie to someone and pretend it's been all peaches n' cream. I'm sure both platforms have their share of issues.

Where were you last week with that same argument?

What I find funny from my own point of view in all this, is that I was one of the first and few that used that argument about Apple potentially losing developers if a Mac could run Windows natively.

Before the switch that was really my main argument against Apple switching and I argued that in many posts on many sites, while most others were just saying things like "Apple is a hardware manufacturer" or "x86 chips are sh*t so Apple won't switch to them".

I didn't actually believe the rumor until the keynote, so I was shocked. Now I see dozens and dozens of posts with that same argument on many websites and even in news article, with many even using the same type of catchy phrasing I was using, like: Software makers will say to their customers "just reboot into Windows to run our app!".

I'm not saying I'm the sole instigator of this argument, but me and the few others who spend the last month explaining in detail how bad it "could" be, may have been helping to spread a message that could hurt Apple now that they announced the switch. It may have a "reverse psychology" effect on companies though...

My feelings about this changed since monday. I feel that more than ever developers will be excited to be part of this new "head to head competition" with MS. Many are getting really pissed off about MS and will feel that helping Apple is a good thing, even more so in this new context.

That is true for cross-platform software companies, and it may even become true for some Windows companies. With more and more people trying to find alternatives to Windows, being platform independent is a good thing for them.

Yes there will be some companies going the other way and focusing on Windows development to save money. But Apple itself showed that it's not a bad thing to have an exit strategy. We'll lose some games, but many hardcore gamers are shifting to console gaming. MS knew it was coming, and that's why we see them following the profit trail. If games on a PC really becomes an afterthought, this will be very good for Apple overall.

One thing that's been left out of this conversation is the inherent lack of stability and security within the Microsoft model. This is no "train wreck" scenario as I see it. This is a plague...make no mistake about it.

An entire industry of IT professionals owes Microsoft a debt of gratitude simply because they'd be flipping burgers were it not for the inept, lazy and general swiss-cheese roadmap design and implementation of every SP that hit the streets.

Microsoft can gladly sit on its' hands until something better comes along because they have so many Windows users by the proverbial OS nuts.

Leopard will run Windows apps faster and more securely than Longhorn.

SteveJack, you're a real asshole. Your fucking Mac OS X is far inferior to Windows XP. It's extremely slow, requires too much maintenance (repairing access rights, etc.), and not worth a dime.

I know what I'm talking about because I have both Macs and PCs since 1984 in all flavors of hard- and software produced since.

Dank:
"If apple could package windows on their pcs, what's to keep dell from packaging OSX on theirs?"

Ummm.... Apple?

Max:

If you're too dumb to figure out how to use OSX (it's so easy, it's embarrassing), then you deserve to be on XP.

I'm STILL waiting for SteveJack to reconcile his current opinion about an Apple/Intel alliance with his opinion circa 2003. He used to hate Intel with a passion.

How about it?

Max,

I want a list of all your Mac hardware. Be name-specific, please.

I have been listening to SteveJack’s tripe about how inferior Intel is to PowerPC since 1998. First on the MSNBC Science and Technology bulletin boards, then up to 2003 on the lostcommunity.com bulletin boards. Time after time he said OSX will never be on Intel. And now in the near future that’s the ONLY place it is going to run. So now he begins to back peddle using the same arguments that everyone who disagreed with him used as a rebuttal. But such is the disease of zealotry. Another one I used to love from SJ was his answer to Apple OSX solution to Oracle was to use Filemaker Pro. What a hoot! I often wondered if he really was an Apple user at all. And SJ before you start crying foul I do have some screen shots form MSNBC and Lostcommunity I would be happy to post here refreshing your selective memory. Of coarse you could simply be a real man and say you were just a little off on your opinions. But we know that will never happen (see zealotry disease comment above). But just the same it is still good to see your alive and kicking SJ. With all of his crap I still thought he was an OK guy.

This might work on a small scale, but will not penetrate the larger market. The simple truth is that large corporations will not dump their many PCs to change to Apple hardware...and neither will most private PC users. If they had the option to install OS X on their PCs there might very well be a move away from Windows.

Apple would get its share of new hardware purchases, but would stand to become a software company like...Microsoft.

RB

can't see it happening as apple is all for controlling the hardware base so you don't get incompatablities like we see with windows, it's impossable to write software that will work with the sheer range of pc hardware there is out there. therefore for example mac os x will only work on a mac because the software has been written for hardware apple have specified so it will work better all the time

Why would anyone who has ever used a Mac, want to run Windows.
How nuts would that be.

Keep drinking your kool-aid, guys. Nobody's switching from Windows to Macs except grandmas.

hey max i a friend of you i lick the slow prossesor and i put my dick in the hot fan that keeps my pc running hey maby he should like be xp bithes together... not you pussy dick liking fagg.. i do have a pc and like 19 macs and pc suck my cock

Micro$h*t purposely cripples their stuff, just like Mac is purposely crippled as well - or don't U know Microflop OWNS Apple? Look into it. They also own some Linuxes such as Gentoo - purposely making it hard 2 use 2 funnel sales 2 XP junk, etc. I use a hybrid blend of some Win98SE stuff (4 multi-monitor support), ME stuff (nice USB drivers) & the shell stuff from the very first pre-IE 95 - very stable & fast - not BSD of course, but fast AND fully compatable! :D What the world needs is an exokernel thing 2 run on Sony PS3 that will let U run SOFTWARE written 4 ANY os. I've tried XP - it's SH*T - my 96 blend is literally 20X the speed. It boots in 7 seconds, does not crash, actually BETTER 4 networking, etc. Did U know XP - an NT variant (not actualy 'windows' at all) limits the simultaneous connections 2 only 10? U have 2 tweak it 2 get N E higher - meanwhile 95 has NO limit WHATSOEVER - only your CPU & RAM Well I got 95 running 3 gigs of ram & 2TB of drives. Of course, Micro$h*t will tell U this is 'impossible' - so, I invite N E 1 2 pay me a visit - perhaps a programmer - we can release a 'compatability layer' 4 the market? Something 4 PS3? E-Mail me - - http://www.neptuneholographics.com

Oh haha - my main test system is a 400MHz AMD crapola CPU - & the mobo supposedly only supports drives up 2 8 gigs or something. I use a special custom blend of Maxblast stuff 2 run the huge drives as well! :D No can't run scandisk within winblows (something about the bit depth on drives over 36GB or something), but can do it in DOS - oh, which is native in 95 by the way - not XP - it uses an EMULATOR - in other words, half-assed junk that doesn't run a lot of games properly. Microsoft's game is 2 collude with hardware sellers 2 make everything run like molasses - but add pointless 'window dressings' like transparency (which they stole from linux shell replacements by the way). I mean come on - 7 minutes 2 boot a new 3ghz Toshiba Laptom? U R effin' kidding me! 7 seconds 2 boot my 95 blend LOL!!! Wooo 'progress' ) Reminds me how they stick computers in cars 2 make them generate more service problems - or didn't U know cars R designed 2 break becuase they want about 30% of their profit from repair? They even DESTROY the electric cars they were mandated 2 produce by law (after they paid off the politicians 2 change the law). Most people are scum - pure parasites. Be they crooks in an alley, or in a suit & tie heading up some big corporation - their goal is wealth & power, NOT progress. THey only promote progress when it suits profit, etc. Scientists (some of them) R the real movers behind progress - Tesla, stuff like that. Asside from making PCs relatively easy 2 use, Bill Gates has contributed NOTHING. In fact, the world would B much better off with an entirely different model - like Amiga I hear is super-fast - but not good marketing I guess. U know, my other gripe is programs that have 'virtual knobs' in them? What good is a friggin 'knob' when I am using a mouse?!?! GIVE ME SLIDERS OR GIVE ME DEATH! ) Just kidding! Like I always say, most people R idiots - writing 'knobs' into programs, or forcing 'consumers' 2 use COMMAND LINE 'codes' 2 operate something (1 of several reasons Linux is useless 2 consumer market).

U know what's scary, if U calculate this 3.2ghz whatever new Toshiba laptop with 'XP media' bla bla on it, taking 7 MINUTES 2 boot, & then divide into that my crap 400Mhz AMD Socket 7 test bed thingy, well that would take 8X as long 2 do the same stuff, therefore = 7X8 = 56 MINUTES 2 load - instead of 7 SECONDS 4 my Win95 blend. So the hard fact is, it's not really 7X faster - what I am running - it is actually 56X60 (3,360) / 7X faster - or 480X the speed of 'new & improved' Winblow$ XP media bla bla! Do the math - 7 seconds 2 boot my 400mhz, vs 7 minutes 2 boot the 'new improved XP' on a 3.2 GHZ! (3,200mhz) system. What's more, I got the bord with 7 fancy cards on it, & tripple monitors (so it has 2 initiate those). Yea' I also sell cylindrical speakers that R superior 2 box speakers in a lot of ways - interesting how I thought a box was kind of required, but a tube can B used & is stronger (can't flex) & better in many ways! Live & learn. If N E 1 out here would like 2 help the world by sharing my advices into a new sort of software 'compatability layer' 4 the Exokernel Power PC core (Sony PS3 types) PLEASE contact me. I have learned a lot of neat tricks! This 480X thing is not a joke - do the math. I guess that's Y I have not felt the need 2 upgrade my CPU! HAHA - of course, customers R so brainwashed they GIVE ME their 400mhz & even faster stuff FREE. I then give those PCs as freebie 'media centers' (after I reconfigure the software/OS on them 4 speed) with the speakers I sell - works out I guess I'm deffinitely checking out those PS3 regardless- 3X the speed of Nividia's fastest card (by their own admission) & costs LESS 4 the whole machine than just the card alone! wow - can't lose.

Yea' OK I forgot there R bios differences that account 4 much of it - oh well, it's still faster. So, I correct my self, but I'm still sharing something useful here. Dump your 'upgrade slavery' routine. Older is sometimes better. There is a fallacy called 'appeal 2 novelty' - like these days the TV says rap is 'music', & breeding with monkeys is 'progressive'. It is not. It's destructive 2 civilization. & no 'opression' has little 2 do with it. The Abos in Australia has 75,000 years without us bugging them - what did they do? Boomerangs? haha & our own people - corporate types - poisoning the water with fluoride, bla bla - there R people who love progress, & there R people who love 'zero sum' models - only think they can get ahead by screwing others. It's not the case. Join me in helping make a better OS - a "NON"-OS - a 'shell' that lets U run N E software from Mac 2 Winblows 2 whatever. It's a big project, but somebody needs 2 start a group serious about it - not stuck in this 'linux emulator compatability layer' thing, but instead in an 'exokernel' type thing - where hardware resources R fully modularized. bla bla