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Defending Windows over Mac a sign of mental illness
Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 11:31 PM EST

By SteveJack

"The combination of "Stockholm Syndrome" and "cognitive dissonance" produces a victim who firmly believes the relationship is not only acceptable, but also desperately needed for their survival," writes Joseph M. Carver, PhD for Mental-Health-Matters.com.

Interesting, you say, but what does this have to do with the price of iMacs in China?

Well, nothing, but it does have a great deal to do with a recent issue I had with an IT department head at a company with which I was consulting recently. I won't get into the specifics, but you know the drill, this guy hated Macs for some reason, made outright fun of Macs using all of the usual myths (too expensive, no software, no one uses them, Apple's going out of business, etc.), but was getting pounded by his company's workers and management as his network repeatedly failed due to viruses and patches and just plain Windows crashes.

I think I've figured out the answer to my own article from last November, "I really wonder what some Windows users think about Macintosh."

These Windows users are sick. Sick, I tell you! Mentally ill. Want proof? Okay, but keep in mind that this gets eerie, proceed at your own risk:

Dr. Carver explains the history of the naming of Stockholm Syndrome, "On August 23rd, 1973 two machine-gun carrying criminals entered a bank in Stockholm, Sweden. Blasting their guns, one prison escapee named Jan-Erik Olsson announced to the terrified bank employees 'The party has just begun!' The two bank robbers held four hostages, three women and one man, for the next 131 hours. The hostages were strapped with dynamite and held in a bank vault until finally rescued on August 28th. After their rescue, the hostages exhibited a shocking attitude considering they were threatened, abused, and feared for their lives for over five days. In their media interviews, it was clear that they supported their captors and actually feared law enforcement personnel who came to their rescue."

"While the psychological condition in hostage situations became known as 'Stockholm Syndrome' due to the publicity - the emotional 'bonding' with captors was a familiar story in psychology. It had been recognized many years before and was found in studies of other hostage, prisoner, or abusive situations. In the final analysis, emotionally bonding with an abuser is actually a strategy for survival for victims of abuse and intimidation," Dr. Carver writes.

Stockholm Syndrome has certain symptoms or behaviors according to Dr. Carver. These include:
A. Positive feelings by the victim toward the abuser/controller
B. Negative feelings by the victim toward family, friends, or authorities trying to rescue/support them or win their release
C. Support of the abuser's reasons and behaviors
D. Positive feelings by the abuser toward the victim
E. Supportive behaviors by the victim, at times helping the abuser
F. Inability to engage in behaviors that may assist in their release or detachment

Now, I shall interpret, using my IT friend as the example:
A: Even though completely locked into a failing computer system, he compliments Microsoft when speaking of Windows and Microsoft applications.
B. I was trying to explain the benefits of Mac OS X vs. Windows when it comes to usability, stability, and virus/worm security only to have him make fun of Apple and the Mac based upon myths and falsehoods.
C. His support of Microsoft's system of patching problems as they came up, how Windows worked, etc. was strong.
D. This poor bastard loved Microsoft.
E. This guy was proud that he had been awake for 56 hours, working through two nights straight to patch hundreds of infected Windows machines.
F. He wouldn't listen to me as I offered him an option (Mac) that did everything he needed to do (and more) without the problems of Windows.

According to Dr. Carver, four situations or conditions must be present that serve as a foundation for the development of Stockholm Syndrome:
A. The presence of a perceived threat to one's physical or psychological survival and the belief that the abuser would carry out the threat
B. The presence of a perceived small kindness from the abuser to the victim
C. Isolation from perspectives other than those of the abuser
D. The perceived inability to escape the situation

My interpretation:
A: The perceived threat, I believe, is that my IT friend would have to "learn something new" or, to put it simply, fear of change. This is a very strong fear in some humans.
B: Microsoft had worked with him on licensing, some custom work, etc.
C. My IT friend would not hear the words Mac or Apple or anything other than Windows without immediately shutting down intellectually and resorting to making fun of the Mac and Apple users.
D. He was so deeply invested in time and money with Microsoft, that he couldn't even consider life without Microsoft.

Dr. Carver explains that, "In abusive and controlling relationships, the victim has the sense they are always 'walking on eggshells' - fearful of saying or doing anything that might prompt a violent/intimidating outburst. My IT friend had long ago barred all users from installing any software on their machines, kept Windows restore discs everywhere (even in his car!), and acted like keeping his computer running was the result of hours and hours of fine-tuning (which it was).

I'm going to stop translating because it's just not necessary any longer, just read what Dr. Carver has to say and apply it to my IT friend, Microsoft, and my attempts to offer him the Apple Macintosh solution:

"In severe cases of Stockholm Syndrome in relationships, the victim may have difficulty leaving the abuser and may actually feel the abusive situation is their fault."

"Abusers and controllers are often given positive credit for not abusing their partner, when the partner would have normally been subjected to abuse in a certain situation."

"In relationships with an abuser or controller, the victim has also experienced a loss of self-esteem, self-confidence, and psychological energy. The victim may feel 'burned out' and too depressed to leave."

"Stockholm Syndrome produces an unhealthy bond with the controller and abuser. It is the reason many victims continue to support an abuser after the relationship is over. It's also the reason they continue to see 'the good side' of an abusive [situation] and appear sympathetic to someone who has... abused them."

Now let's look briefly at "Cognitive Dissonance." Dr. Carver explains, "Throughout history, people have found themselves supporting and participating in life situations that range from abusive to bizarre. One way these feelings and thoughts are developed is known as 'cognitive dissonance.'"

"'Cognitive Dissonance' explains how and why people change their ideas and opinions to support situations that do not appear to be healthy, positive, or normal. In the theory, an individual seeks to reduce information or opinions that make him or her uncomfortable. Even though we might find ourselves in a foolish or difficult situation, few want to admit that fact - the more you invest (income, job, home, time, effort, etc.) the stronger your need to justify your position."

Dr. Carver explains, "Studies tell us we are more loyal and committed to something that is difficult, uncomfortable, and even humiliating. The initiation rituals of college fraternities, Marine boot camp, and graduate school all produce loyal and committed individuals."

Add Windows IT professionals to the list of pledges, recruits, and grad students. Emotional Investment, Dr. Carver explains, is the key, "We've invested so many emotions, cried so much, and worried so much that we feel we must see the relationship through to the finish."

My poor IT friend. He's ill. Dr. Carver writes, "The combination of 'Stockholm Syndrome' and 'cognitive dissonance' produces a victim who firmly believes the relationship is not only acceptable, but also desperately needed for their survival. The victim feels they would mentally collapse if the relationship ended. In long-term relationships, the victims have invested everything and placed 'all their eggs in one basket.' The relationship now decides their level of self-esteem, self-worth, and emotional health."

I could go on, but my point has probably made many times over by now. So, how do we break the abused from the abuser? According to Dr. Carver it is a complex problem that may require counseling and professional help. In my case, I just sent along my first draft of this article anonymously. Drastic, maybe, but I don't have an extended period of time here. That was 10 days ago. I'm not going to mention Apple or Mac to him for a while, but I've noticed that he's no longer visibly recoiling at the sight of my PowerBook anymore. A small step, but it seems to be in the right direction.

SteveJack is a long-time Macintosh user, web designer, multimedia producer and a regular contributor to the MacDailyNews Opinion section.

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Jan 21, 04 - 10:29 pm Comment from: Dick Hertz

C'mon. a lot of us don't use Windoze by choice, we use it because that's where the commercial software lives. Show us an alternative that allows us to do our jobs--and I don't care if it's Mac, or OpenSource, or what--and we'll take it.

Jan 22, 04 - 05:37 pm Comment from: Oingo Boingo

Software for Mac - it's here if you care, or does your Dick Hertz too much?

http://guide.apple.com/ussoftware.lasso

Jan 22, 04 - 08:37 pm Comment from: okcalla

mac offers every software option you can imagine there are the mac specific programs garage band i tunes anything you want to do is just as availabe for mac as it is for windows. it may seem mac doesnt have many programs but thats because the bad ones are dealt with pretty quickly. even microsoft makes programs for the mac including there own office suite. it even works better tho in the new version they seem to have forgotten xml. then you have all the programs that run cross platform. programs such as quicken. as well if you absolutely cannot find it for the mac you can buy virtual pc and run the windows os on your mac as well you can run alll the apps ever mad efor that version of windows be it 95 98 xp however be forewarned your vulnerable to the same viruses as a regular windows user. stupid microsoft.

Jan 23, 04 - 09:51 pm Comment from: office user

Sure the Mac has a lot of software. There's music creation, image creation/manipulation, heck even Microsoft Office which is file compatible with Windows versions. HOWEVER, what about software for big business? Where's the corporate accounting? Human Resources/Payroll? I'm not talking about little business, I'm talking IBM sized systems. Without big businesses moving towards a Macintosh world the average corporate john and jane are going to continue to get Windows machines at home to match their work machines. Face it, Apple makes nice hardware, there OS is technically supior again (it has been a LONG time since that's been true) but hardware is still more expensive for the basic computer....show me the $675 Macintosh.

Jan 24, 04 - 08:48 pm Comment from: bill gates jr

The last apple I liked was tht IIe.
The main reason I don't use MACs is price.
The second reason I don't use MACs is that every leftist leaning loony in hollywood and every environmental wacko uses them. Long live capitalism. I vote Bill Gates for GOD.

Jan 26, 04 - 05:43 pm Comment from: Red Wings

"Bill Gates for God"? That is extremely scary
Im a switcher and Im glad to be getting away from XP, It was a windows update that killed my Sony, and also, isnt it funny that my computer froze more often when I used Windows Media Player for my mp3s. After I downloaded iTunes for Windows I had few freezes and they werent from playing music. I will gladly pay a premium for better quality then settle for just anything that works most of the time. Life is too short to be screwing with weekly updates that most of the time cause more problems than they fix.

Jan 28, 04 - 05:15 am Comment from: Mark Smith

Some windows fans are ill here is the ultimate proof!!!
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1133/index.asp

I was nearly sick!!

Jan 29, 04 - 11:52 pm Comment from: Bi-Computeral

It's this kind of partisanship that makes Mac users come across as wackos to the mainstream.

The fact is, the Mac IS deficient in some software areas. Show me a Mac equivalent to Microsoft Streets & Trips 2004. There is none. I have to run Virtual PC on my iBook just for that app, which I need when traveling.

And my Mac has quirks just like my PCs do. The Mac is great. But sell it on its strengths, not by calling PC users crazy or making up stuff like "it's easier to use" or "it never crashes."

And if the Mac ever does gain back more than 5% of the market, the virus issue will strike its ugly head there. If Macs had 95%, it'd be the Windows users crowing about the lack of viruses. Duh.

Jan 30, 04 - 09:08 am Comment from: stephenr

I must protest the inappropriate usage of "mentally ill". While I understand that this article was intended to be a humnorous piece, as an individual who has been battling depression and under gone shock treatments, I find no humor in such a casual sarcastic use of an illness that is not funny. This only contributes to society's fear, misunderstanding, and intolerance toward those who struggle on a daily basis.

Jan 31, 04 - 12:50 pm Comment from: Ron

Stephen, I don't think the article contributed to society's fear, misunderstanding or intolerance toward those who struggle on a daily basis in any way. He wasn't mocking people who have stockholm syndrome or cognitive dissonance. Despite the likelihood that this piece was satire, there is a core of truth to the hypothesis. Can you say that the guy he's talking about was acting rationally? It is an abusive situation to put up with continuous attacks on a work tool. Would you put up with constant attacks on your automobile, you TV, your radio, power tools or anything you use to do your job OTHER than a computer? Why put up with it in a computer. Why PROMOTE the poorer choice? It is irrational, and does display cognitive dissonance.

Sorry to hear about your struggles, but this was not an attack on you as far as I can see, nor an attack on anyone. It was an explanation, which is not the same thing.

Jan 31, 04 - 01:36 pm Comment from: stanley

Boo-fucking-hoo, stephenr. I'm tired of people scolding others because they have somehow trivially "offended" them. This has nothing to do with intolerance, and in no way contributes to fear, et al. Grow and stop being such a sensitive, illogical, knee-jerking fool. Seriously. And just so you know, I have been treated for depression on and off for years. It's people like you, Stephen, that truly represent a detriment to public representation of such illnesses.

Jan 31, 04 - 01:57 pm Comment from: lighthearted

Lighten up folks. That was an extremely funny piece designed to show the irrationality people sometimes exhibit when defending Windows (even as Windows is abusing them relentlessly).

Mac users have to deal with crap from Windows users who are smug because most of the world uses Windows. Just because everyone uses it doesn't mean it's great software.

It's just plain fun to see someone poking fun at this tendency of Mac-bashers to ignore the evidence right in front of their own faces.

Jan 31, 04 - 04:28 pm Comment from: Cyberqat

Just for abalnce. As a treatedand controlled sufefr from Major Affective Disorder (what a previous poster called "depression") I found this artixle inoffensive.

In fact I found it an intelligent and provacative exploration of how a known psychological phenoenon may explain wide spread seemingly un-explainable behavior.

(Oh and a ps on the business apps. Everyone who has TRIED MS Office X says its bette ron the Mac then on Winblows. Even people still using their M$FT machines regularly.)

Jan 31, 04 - 04:49 pm Comment from: Steven

Show me a Mac equivalent to Microsoft Streets & Trips 2004.

What about Route 66

Door to door route planning for the US and Canada

- Includes also the street network of Canada

- Over 7,300,000 miles of road

- Over 6,500,000 streets

- Over 4,000,000 Points-of-interest

- Over 75,000,000 house numbers

- GPS-compatible

Jan 31, 04 - 06:31 pm Comment from: David

Or, you could say the exact same thing about the hard core Mac lovers. I have both, and they're both useful for certain things. But just like in all things whether you go one way on an issue or the other way, if you go far enough you end up at the same spot: being a socially inept raving lunatic.

Jan 31, 04 - 07:07 pm Comment from: Beer_Smurf

" The main reason I don't use MACs is price."
I just can't figure this one.
It is flawed logic at it's finest.
No matter how much you claim you PC is cheaper in purchase price, the Mac will save you that in a matter of weeks in productivity.
How many hours are spent patching for viruses, worms, exploits etc?
Please also count the time to download and reboot for each patch.
Windows reinstalls and hard drive reformats?
Time on hold with tech support?
Now bill all this time at full shop rate because it's time you have wasted.
Add this total to the cost of your PC.
How much have you saved now?

Jan 31, 04 - 07:35 pm Comment from: Pat Conner

I saw a study a couple of years ago that compared the production levels of Mac and PC users in ad agencies. The Mac people produced over $17,000.00 of billable time per year MORE than the PC users. Show me a MAC that costs $17,000.00 more than a PC.

And imagine the difference in the quality of the work produced when you can concentrate on the project rather than the computer.

Jan 31, 04 - 10:43 pm Comment from: neminem

Nice article... but I mainly use Windows because I'm lazy. Also, you can't deny that Macs used to suck. Not that Windows didn't *also* use to suck, but... anyway, I still have strong memories of when it was actually smart to make fun of Macs. Anyway, if I got over my laziness and switched OSes, I'd switch to actual Linux, not Windows, because reflects better on my geekiness wink.

Feb 01, 04 - 12:13 am Comment from: badturtle

Anyone who complains about the price of Macs should do some homework. I sell computers. One tool I use to sell Macs is I show how much cheaper they are. I compare the 17" iMac ($1799) with a custom built PC. When I do just the hardware, the iMac is about $200 cheaper. When I add software to the PC to make it do the same things the Mac can do out of the box, the difference grows to about $1000. Yes, you can get a PC cheaper than a Mac, but if you want something you can get anything done with, the Mac is cheaper.

Feb 01, 04 - 01:42 am Comment from: Cobalt

LOL... The more I read these anti-Gates/Windows/PC "opinions" (satire or not) the more I'm convinced that there are only three actual Mac users and they all have the same opinions, job and sense of humor. Now, the three of you - go get a companion (marry them if you have to) and freaking get laid. Hell, pay for it if you have to, just get over the fact that Apple has NO presence in the enterprise because it has no SERVICES to sell with it's hardware, limited presence in the consumer space because it's perceived value is FAR lower than it's cost and a shrinking slice of the content creation market because small and medium sized production houses are finding out that Windows IS stable and powerful.. you just have to have operators that aren't afraid of mice with more than one button.

Cobalt

PS the lower TCO argument some of you are getting ready to make... don't - in your favorite studies that show Apple users being more intelligent, productive, wealthier... ect, Apple is (usually) compared to the WINDOWS PC INDUSTRY not individual companies like BOXX, SGI, Carillon or Alienware. Let's see that Mac OS X Serves uptime vs 16 blade HP ProLiant BL10e G2 - huh how about that?

Feb 01, 04 - 06:49 am Comment from: nunyabidnes

one small point that everyone has missed.

Compare the amount of electricity that is consumed by your "cheaper" PC..

If you compare the Dell that is commonly sold to the education market to the eMac the commonly sold Apple...

The Dell costs about $50 more per year to operate in my area when looking at the CPU alone. When you look at the rest of the power requirements for the rest of the stuff in the box it comes out to roughly $75 more per year.

Say that you use that machine for 4 years (can easily do that with a Mac) you would you will spend $300 dollars more on what you think is a cheaper machine. BTW at the time of the comparison the eMac was actually $50 LESS to purchase! But I won't count that since Dell would likely drop the price or you could get it on sale.

And about comparing them to SGI, Alienware etc.... why? Alienware machines cost MORE, as do SGI the last I checked (which was awhile so I could be off on that). And would still cost more to power then the Apples! The greater amount of waste heat generated by most of the newer powerful X86 machines also has to be factored into cost. That means additional cooling costs for an office that can be a considerable amount per year. Especially in a big business with a hundred desktop machines per floor.

When I worked at the local baby bell we did a study that showed that if we replaced the 750 desktops in one of our buildings with Macs we would save between lower power costs for the machines themselves and reduced cooling costs for the building (even in the winter months we had to run the AC between the machines and the bodies it got steamy at times) in the neighbourhood of $300k! And referencing the figures from Intel on the costs associated with maintaining the Macs that they have as an example of how much we could have saved on IT it came out as another $2 MILLION in salaries alone.

Now take those rough figures and realize that this is just for one of many locations across the US and you can see that it can add up to some REAL money! And we are not talking about replacing any of the Big stuff in the back office! That would remain untouched. Just changing the desktops that the rank and file were doing their work on.


But we could not get them to drop the hammer on it! It would have saved millions over four years and they would not do it for the standard reasons: One button mouse, Apple is going out of business etc!

Feb 01, 04 - 06:24 pm Comment from: Tea Boy

I agree!!!!!

Feb 01, 04 - 08:39 pm Comment from: michel

what a bunch of stupidity are windows fans !

there ARE BIG BUSINESS PROFESSIONNAL APPLICATIONS IN ALL OPERATING SYSTEMS !

need big databases for millions transactions ? : linux, aix, solaris !
need big file servers for enterprise ? linux, osx, solaris
need VERY BIG 3D Software for cgi ? linux, windows, osx, irix
need big B2B applications ? linux, solaris
need professional graphicals applications ? windows osx irix
need huge automate and industrials applications ? linux rt, qnx, others
need network based applications ? osx, linux, solaris
need professional office applications ? osx, windows and with time, _linux_ (believe me )

and ho! about people and nice desktop : OSX (so much easier) ,windows and slowly but surely : linux (gnome project, kde project, full of nice applications to listen music, edit photos, chat ,whatever, more and more easy and nice)

about GAMES ? Windows of course! a little of osx , a tiny tiny bit of linux.

so what ? STOP TO BE RELIGIOUS with WINDOWS.

NOT Windows NEITHER UNIX, NEITHER VMS or that supreme crap which was called netware Is THE BEGIN and the END ! never it was , never it will be.

if linux is MY choice, it's because if fits MY NEED. if windows is yours, are sure it's because it fits perfectly your need or because you are just a clueless users without no interest in all of that ?

if some people says macs are better, there are REASONS.
in my jobs, I will support WHATEVER (osx ,solaris, hp ux, linux, windows, aix) is the BEST for a TASK. and _never_ I will compromise my choice of software and the security of the network I manage with STUPIDs prejudice.

you are a windows users annoyed by arrogant linux users or elitist macintosh owner ? GO TO LEARN !

for others windows users only enjoying good computing : don't lost time with stupids debats, go on with windows.
it's fine. you know how to survive virus, patch, security hole and bugs.


my main problem is windows _geek_ people (or so called windows professionals) are completely crazy.

no good reason, only prejudices, and the insane believing than windows HAS TO DO ALL. (_All_ , manage shuttle , games , databases, r2d2, webservers, all all all all )

and when people fall on a perfectly fine apple laptop, or an huge sun server or a very nice and efficient "desktop linux", they completely transform into a sort of stupid ignorant clueless person : "hoooO what is it ?? it's not windows ? holalalalala!!!"

Feb 01, 04 - 08:40 pm Comment from: michel


don't you see ? real technicians, or scientist in the computer domains, ingeneer or others computers litterates don't give a crap about what you believe to know . they will use the best tools to do the job. and it can be windows or.. ho magic... linux/apple/sun/hp/ibm/sgi/novell/... solutions .
I will dare to say it's more and more linux. (my experience, linux is more and more recurring)

and I will dare to say before all the gods : Macintosh computers are damn fucking GOOD computers for _people_ not giving a crap about complexity, bugs, virus ...

baah, the typical fan/geek windows users will stay in his/her bubble, will be angry because of my nosely post and will never dare to test/try/learn why some people don't use windows and are not dead. the typical fan/geek windows users will always repeat prejudices and fud.

Feb 01, 04 - 10:49 pm Comment from: shane

"And if the Mac ever does gain back more than 5% of the market, the virus issue will strike its ugly head there. If Macs had 95%, it'd be the Windows users crowing about the lack of viruses. Duh."

what an interesting arguement. so you are saying that despite having a fine BSD pedegie and shipping with with most services closed by default and not yet having any workable exploits, somehow, if there were more Macs, they would all get hit by a virus?

lets see, apache has more market share than IIS, yet IIS has more than 5 times as many exploits. marketshares matters how?

microsoft makes insecure products. face it. deal with it.

yes, i am sure that at some point, there will be a serious linux or Mac virus. but microsoft patches more *exploited* holes in a typical month than have been discovered in in OS X in the 3 versions it has existed in, what, 3+ years? no system is perfectly secure, nor will there ever be one that is, but to date, microsoft makes the most insecure systems by several factors of ten. another 10-20% of the market for Apple or *nix won't change that.

...think next time before you post.

Feb 01, 04 - 10:53 pm Comment from: shane

and lets all hear it for Cobalt, the man the article was written about, showing us *exactly* the solid reasoning and fine grasp of critical thinking that is being discussed.

thanks!

Feb 02, 04 - 01:01 am Comment from: Mace Soul

You're an idiot. You're swinging from a meat hook with twice the monopoly (hardware AND software) and you try to slam people who want the choice of what video and sound card they use? Mac users must be closet communists.

You deserve to be on a Mac. Loser.

Feb 02, 04 - 01:02 am Comment from: macesoul

>>microsoft makes insecure products.

Bullshit. The fact of the matter is that virus writers don't want to write worms for 2% of computers.

Feb 02, 04 - 04:38 am Comment from: Henrik

>>Bullshit. The fact of the matter is that virus writers don't want to write worms for 2% of computers

No, thats bullshit!
Look att the underlying architecture, you don't run a mac as root. But how many run windows as administrator?
And even if your not running as administrator, you can access a hell of a lot more than on any UNIX or LINUX system. (Oh, if you didn't know, the mac runns UNIX)
And that's why viruses is so easy to write for windows, you don't have to worry about security.

Feb 02, 04 - 07:55 am Comment from: Black_kitty

>>>" The main reason I don't use MACs is price."
I just can't figure this one.
It is flawed logic at it's finest.
No matter how much you claim you PC is cheaper in purchase price, the Mac will save you that in a matter of weeks in productivity.
How many hours are spent patching for viruses, worms, exploits etc?
Please also count the time to download and reboot for each patch.
Windows reinstalls and hard drive reformats?
Time on hold with tech support?
Now bill all this time at full shop rate because it's time you have wasted.
Add this total to the cost of your PC.
How much have you saved now?<<<

If you can't get a loan from Apple and you don't have the cash, but you can get a loan from, say, Gateway, that makes all the difference in the world. That's the "flawed" logic; some people only get what they *can* get.

No, I'm not bashing Macs, but they are a bit more costly and a loan for one is harder to obtain. And it's tiresome to hear "no they're not more expensive" when I know from experience that they are, and about how they're so much better that they save you more money in the long run - if you don't have the money in the first place, them saving you money in the long run doesn't do you any good.

Feb 02, 04 - 01:44 pm Comment from: Ultmast

">>microsoft makes insecure products.

Bullshit. The fact of the matter is that virus writers don't want to write worms for 2% of computers."

Aside from your obvious and unnecessarily dramatic exaggeration of "2%", your assertion is most definitely not "fact", and merely serves to demonstrate your great ignorance of the architecture of Microsoft's competitors.

Mac OS X _is_ far more secure than Windows _by design_. There are fewer ports open by default, admin passwords are required for installations that affect the system, there's no centralized, corruptable registry, and there's even a built-in firewall as part of the Apache web server that's also built-in.

Do you realize, sir, that you are fully justifying the premise of the article, which until people like you started commenting on, seemed entirely tongue in cheek?

Feb 02, 04 - 02:38 pm Comment from: Alexander

""and I will dare to say before all the gods : Macintosh computers are damn fucking GOOD computers for _people_ not giving a crap about complexity, bugs, virus ...""

73h 1337 run OSX b/c its got bsd at the core, but you dont have to murder yourself to do simple things like play music or video. I am a comp sci major and run osX because of this, and now have a better reason (Xcode).

"Apple has NO presence in the enterprise because it has no SERVICES to sell with it's hardware, limited presence in the consumer space because it's perceived value is FAR lower than it's cost and a shrinking slice of the content creation market because small and medium sized production houses are finding out that Windows IS stable and powerful.."

Ok.. every quarter shows exponential increases in sales. Ipod alone could keep apple afloat in the midst of a recession(even windoze users like it despite the fact its apple made). I bet you own an ipod cobalt. If not you probably bought one of its hack degenerate copies.. the dell dj doesnt even play the rest of a playlist if you select something in the middle.

Not to seem too millitant, i do have one thing, and only one thing i use vpc for, that is sysreset fileserver script. Sadly the number of users of both mac AND irc simply hasnt grown enough to see a port of that script to mac. I invite anyone who knows that hodge podge #$%#$ language that is mirc scripting to port an apple version and set me free though =).

Feb 02, 04 - 03:57 pm Comment from: David

I just spent the better part of my lunch break reading through the entirety of the comments, particularly paying attention to the folks who are Windows fans. Perhaps they have a valid point.

Nope! I have to agree with you, Steven. Not only are they mentally ill, a great many of them are just plain stupid and illogical. I know... it's name calling, and Mom did teach me better, but come on guys - give me a break!

I work on both platforms daily. We have a Network of 300+ WindowsNT machines at our high school. When our new superintendent came on board, the first thing he did was sweep through the district with "anti-Mac broom" and literally ripped out working Mac labs all over the school district. If that was not the height of stupidity, I'd like to know what is!

We were all forced by policy to work on Window machines because, "it's what big business uses". You would not beleive the daily crashes, lost files, corruption, blown power supplies that me and my associate have to deal with on a daily basis. The district has spent millions (literally) on this anti-Mac endeavor. When the Mac labs were in, one guy (me) ran the entire network with never so much as a hitch. This new systems requires so much security and tweeking as the make the computers nearly useless to the students.

When they came into my lab to take my MacG3 server which I was using to serve up the high school’s web site, as well as the sites of 5 other schools in the district, I put my foot down. There was no way I was going to be forced to work with a clearly inferior tool. Lucky for them, they relented, otherwise the web sites of 6 of the district’s schools would have gone off-line. I also lucked out, because when our new principal came on board at the high school, the first thing he did was buy me a new G4. There are about a dozen of us still waging the good fight against the dark side.

Oh well, I digress. It’s just amazing after reading through the comments that every one of the points in your article was supported. The unadulterate ignorance of some people is amazing. Keep those articles coming. I’m printing this one out to mail to a few of my Windows friends who a tottering on the edge. Good luck!

Feb 02, 04 - 04:03 pm Comment from: Ultmast

From macvspc.info:

"For instance, the computer our school district was choosing (Dell Optiplex GX-110 + 15" monitor) uses 50 watts more power than a comparable iMac. Multiplying this out (3500 computers x 8 hours per school day x 200 school days x 7¢/KWH) results in enough savings to get some 25 brand new iMacs for FREE: EVERY YEAR. And this does not take into account the extra cost of air-conditioning. THINK about this..."

Feb 02, 04 - 11:40 pm Comment from: Jonathan

The article is funny because you can just as easilly switch the two sides of it and it is just as accurate and meaningfull.

All in all, though, quite humorous.

Feb 03, 04 - 01:28 pm Comment from: Fcasas

Bottom line: go with what you are comfortable with!
You can use a PC and a number of OS's, not just Windows!
You can use Windows because it is familiar, and it's ok.
You can use a Mac for a variety of reasons, and it's ok.

So stop the religious nonsense!

Ps. We have both PC's and Macs in our laboratories and we have had our share of problems with both.

Feb 03, 04 - 01:45 pm Comment from: Fracas

LLNL used to be the largest Mac campus anywhere. Now Windows PC's outpace Macs 5 to 3, and UNIX has decreased as well among administration staff. Mostly, the die-out occurred before OS X and certainly before the G5 and VT's Cluster fsck X!

Now infoWorld reports an LLNL enterprise assessment of Apple, as well as hints that Apple may begin to take the enterprise seriously:

http://weblog.infoworld.com/techwatch/archives/000268.html
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/23/04OPreality_1.html

Feb 03, 04 - 11:47 pm Comment from: George Lewan

I work with Mac at home and PC at office. The office network is so bogged down with network administrator's control features that I can't access documents and programs that I created. The office computer on my desk is a laptop that cannot boot when pluged into network connections at other desks. The system for monitoring schedules, tasks, files, people assignments and facilities has never worked on that computer, it is only useable somethimes for reading email. My Apple II years ago was more useful. When I installed OSX on my G4 at home, it likewise became a candidate to give away because most of the sofware ceased working. That was more expensive than the computer!

Feb 04, 04 - 02:19 am Comment from: Magic Rat

If Mac had 95% of the market, the World would be a much better place and Apple would not be at war with the rest of the open source computer community - the cause of the current virus attacks. See news reports for details. If Micro$oft had only 5% of the market, there would be no need for them and therefore they would not survive.

There is a trend currently prevalent in popular culture which holds ignorance as a virtue. It's origins are a matter for debate, but its survival is due to the vast number of followers this dire trend has gathered into its wake. Ignorance is not a virtue, never was and never will be. Look at the facts, make reasoned intelligent assessments and learn, instead of attacking what you don't understand because you are too lazy to ask.

If you are happy with freezing screens, virus infestation, patches for bugs which should have been sorted at the Beta stage, ugly boxes, confusing GUI, Gates worship and all the loss of productivity that goes hand in hand with them, keep using your Windoze boxes. But consider this:

Apple make computers that look good. Few people argue with this. A host of design awards won every year for their products proves the point. But good aesthetic design is only skin deep. The real advances, and what makes a Mac a better choice for your personal computer, are in the architecture of the hardware and the sheer brilliance of an almost faultless operating system, which we in the Mac community have over the last three years, come to take for granted. We know we are lucky. We even have moments when we feel sorry for you as you suffer bugs, crashes and viruses in Windoze land. But we have fewer such moments when you display prejudice and ignorance and fail to make a single valid point to support your argument.

Get a life. Get a Mac.

Feb 04, 04 - 10:29 pm Comment from: Mental

It may have already been said, but I run Winblows because I play games. I know u can emulate and stuff, but i dont have the time to play around to play around =P i just wanna play )

Feb 05, 04 - 02:40 pm Comment from: hurtle


I don't understand why windoze users hang out on a mac forum, I very much doubt that you'll find any mac users on pc boards. Sure, you find mac users on boards that aren't platform specific, slashdot, Ars etc. But why on earth would you frequent a forum that covers a computer platform you hate? and whose users you think of as misguided zealots

Unless. . .

Feb 05, 04 - 09:27 pm Comment from: phaser

When I went shopping for a new computer I configured a MacG4, and a Dell with the same components. The Dell would have cost me $300.00 more than the G4. So much for saving money buying a PC.

Feb 05, 04 - 11:34 pm Comment from: Magic Rat

hurtle, I don't know how old you are but that's a kinda strange question you're posing there Buddy. Windoze users hang out on Mac sites for the same reason you hung around outside the the candy store or the bike store as a kid. There was something nice there and you wanted it. But your Mom and Pop didn't always let you have it. But you went anyhow. It's a wish fulfillment thing. For the Windoze user, their PC box is a busted up wreck if a bike that don't work too good anymore, in fact it never did. The Mac is the bright, shiny new thing they're dreaming of owning one day. And as phaser says, they shelled out the bucks and got sold a dud. Now they're married to the wreck and the payments never stop. There aughta be a help-line.

Feb 06, 04 - 02:38 pm Comment from: Gatesux

I run my entire business with two locations entirely on Macs. So much for the myth that Macs aren't for business.

Feb 08, 04 - 09:45 am Comment from: SystmError13

possibly one of the most truthful articles i've ever read. my school is stacked full of crappy IBMs installed with windows 95. and i swear, if one of them says that i've "performed an illegal opperation" one more time, i'm going to toss the stupid thing out the window. Long live the Mac!

Feb 11, 04 - 01:12 pm Comment from: dascribe

The truth hurts many...... But thats to be expected. The sadest thing is some of these poster's don't realize they too suffer from SS... Even when it's in front of them.......

Once again, we pity those sorry folks who remain living in the darkside.

"Mac OS X - 'Cause making Unix user-friendly is a hell of a lot easier than debugging windoze"......

Feb 11, 04 - 06:16 pm Comment from: JackStraw(fromWitchataw)

Please, WINDOZE UZERS - Please stay with windows!

We don't need your "market share" on the Mac.

Feb 16, 04 - 06:37 pm Comment from: Chris

This whole site makes me sad. Apple users used to be really cool, friendly people. All I see here are really hateful people pushing their views while not doing a good job of backing them up. Reminds me of a few crazy religions I know...

I guess its not just this site though, I just read this:
http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,62157,00.html
The guy actually got death-threats from Apple users!

Why are you so hateful? It makes me want to run screaming from anything Mac related--is this the point? (The above post from JacStraw seems to corrobrate this...)

Feb 17, 04 - 12:42 am Comment from: nox

omfg. Seriously, I understand that Macs have potential. But for God's sake, how many of you actually do hardcore coding with Macs? Windows, at least has a lot of software available for it, but God damnit, if you think you're a 'real' computer user, go Open Source. If anything, you're still paying too much money for either a pretty computer or a BSOD prone computer. Go sell your Mac and download FreeBSD.

Feb 26, 04 - 05:48 pm Comment from: Hugin777

nox, I love FreeBSD. But it's just not ready for desktop use quite yet, IMHO. I strongly prefer FreeBSD to Linux, but neither is good enough for everyday use for me.

So I switched to OS X half a year ago, and am really happy. I'm a CS major, and use Emacs and Xcode for all my coding needs (and VirtualPC for compiling under Windows). You may not think I'm hardcore, as I prefer Ada95 over C++ (C++ is like Windows in my opinion tongue laugh ).

Feb 26, 04 - 05:51 pm Comment from: Hugin777

Oh, I forgot - OS X has "stolen" all the user level command line utilities from FreeBSD, so when using the Terminal I'm still (almost) running FreeBSD grin

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