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I just love the humility of the Repubs on this thread. Very telling.

C´mon effwerd if you had won you would be rubbing it in like salt in new wound.

For the last year the press and all your fellow democrats have been pounding away at Bush will all that B.S.

To the victor goes the spoils.

Don´t get mad at Bush and us fellow Republicans. Get mad at the left-wing, ultra left, elitist Democrat leadership - they got you a lousy candidate.
As you can see by the map of the US the democrats are totally out of touch with maintstream America.
Hint: Watch Hillary. She is going to try to move the Democrats back to the middle.
That´s how Bill won.

See, here in America, we have this problem. It's called Middle America. If the northeast and California were to split from this country (as well as they should) there wouldn't be anyone to pay the bill for Middle America's wars and churches.

Australia, from what I hear is looking for qualified tech workers.

natis sez: "Australia, from what I hear is looking for qualified tech workers."

Guess that rules you out.
Flipping burgers is as high as you will advance.

The same thing happened in Australia, our prime minister is no different to bush

The Australians are smarter than some realize.
Go Aussies!

You know, in 4 years, the Democrats will be moaning that Jeb Bush just stole the election from Hilary Clinton.

See, things could be worse. 4 years from now the choice could be between Bush the Third or Clinton the Second.

Nah...Rudy Guiliani will beat Hillary in her re-election bid in 2006.

It will be Rudy or Sen. McCain vs. Edwards or Kerry again. That is unless Teresa divorces Kerry and he is left with no financial base.

"Osama is not crying, he is hiding...on the run."

who's smoking the crack pipe now?

ugh.. this is depressing... what did you guys vote for.. issues..? uh.. no..

foreign policy? oops..
Economy.. oh shit..
Religious Right Wing Wacko in the White House..?
You bet!

What a lame place to live..

G-Spank:

A good point.

Osama bin Laden surfaces just a few days before the election to "inform" the US population that it doesn't matter who is President, and to berate the incumbent and he achieves what was probably his intended result wich was to keep Bush and (more importantly) his disasterously incompetent cabinet and advisers in power.

These two entities need each other to exist: the NeoCon establishment needs a "Clear And Present Danger" to unite the country against a common enemy, thus diverting attention from domestic policies that are largely free of imagination or effect; and radical Islamists need a right-wing "crusading" American administration - preferably laden with 'shoot from the hip' types - to demonise whilst radicalising a population of young, adult males who are either economically or politically disenfranchised.

People like bin Laden, Zarqawi and their kind succeed partially as a result of the USA, UK, France and others having disasterously poor taste in who they're willing to deal with: the USA has supported Iran and Egypt (CIA-trained secret police), Iraq (arms), and Saudi Arabia (you name it). The UK has supported Bahrain, Saudi (corrupt arms deals), Qatar, Iraq and others. France likewise.

It's incredibly easy for radical Islamists to paint western governments as sponsors and role models for the corrupt regimes in their own countries.

Once you've got a poorly educated, but highly motivated individual 'all fired up', you just step away and let his own misguided/warped sense of justice take over on auto-pilot.

Here's a question for all the Homeland Security types here: how many of the many hundreds of arrests of alleged 'al-Qua'ida' cells made in the USA since 9/11 have resulted in actual convictions that have stuck? Do some digging, it's a laugh. Of particular amusement are cases in Detroit and Buffalo.

Reality check: there won't be a mass exodus of liberals from the US, and they'll continue to exercise their democratic right to Bush-bash for the next four years. That's the beauty of democracy: you don't have to like the umpire's (read: the people's) decision, but you continue to have the right to speak out.

I just wish celebrity lefties who threaten to leave would make good on their promise.

The reality is, America wouldn't have been much different under Kerry. Those talking of a police state under Bush are the paranoid ones.

And those slackers who didn't bother to vote have no right to complain.

Oh, and sd, when it comes to the terrorists you were damned if you did elect Bush, and damned if you didn't.

Electing Bush might prompt more recruiting for Al-Qaeda (though America is considered The Great Satan regardless of who's in control), but electing Kerry might have given comfort to terrorists.

Hywel said:

"But at least it's a proper win this time. With the popular vote and the no apparent rigging. "

I wouldn't be so sure about that:

http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Rigged_2004_Elections.htm

The Christian Reconstructionists control the electronic voting in the U.S. They have begun their takeover of the country.

Hey solid, look out your window. I'm waiving from that black helicopter. Oh wait, you can't actually *SEE* the black helicopters, can you?

Yes, Ronald Reagan started putting cloaking devices on them in the '80s. Yes, cloaks...another by-product of the SDI.

Oh well, just wave and trust we're waving back. We'll leave a refill for your meds and a reminder for your next therapist appointment at your door.

Congratulations George W. Bush!! and other conservative winners...

Today has been a GREAT day for America.

To the wacko lib posters on this thread: the mother ship will not be coming back for you, so make the best of it.

Bush is a dumb man being played by the republican elite.

Given enough time it's said that you can get a monkey to type the works of the Bard. It's taken many thousands of years for that to happen. And its only happen once.

But its take only a few hundred years to elect a monkey into the most powerful country in the world, twice.

Well done America! Your living up to your true heritage...

What´s cool about listening to the whining liberal Democrats is that not only did the lose the PRESIDENCY (again),
BUT they also do not have majority in the
HOUSE
and
SENATE!

How is that oh wise Democrats?
You talk of a country divided yet the Presidency, Senate and House Of Representatives belongs to one party. The Republicans. That´s not divided, that´s a majority.

Whining Democrats do not blame anyone else but yourselves for your losses.
Next time put up a candidate that people believe in, not an "anybody-but-Bush", most liberal Democrat there is.
(TIP: Clinton won because he was a moderate. And if the press had been more fair in its reporting and gone after Kerry with the same zeal as Bush, Bush would have won by a landslide.)

Democrats you need to clean house - sweep out the types like M. Moore, George Soros, the Hollywood left, the Kennedy left, the Jesse Jackson left,the MoveOn losers and cheaters.
Get rid of Joe Lockhart, Terry McAuliffe, Shrum, etc., etc.
I wish you good luck in cleaning house. The United States needs everyone working to make it remaind the best country in the world.

And to all you foreign contributors to this forum - hey, deride your own country´s government and people and leave ours alone! We will take care of ourselves, we don´t need outsiders butting their noses in.
I have travelled all over the world and lived in Europe for several years. America is the greatest country in the world. And will remain so.

John Jacobson writes "And to all you foreign contributors to this forum - hey, deride your own country´s government and people and leave ours alone!"

Tell you what, it's a deal – when the US stops interfering in politics in Venezuela or any other country of whose government it disapproves (hmmm, another oil producing country - no pattern there then), we'll stop commenting on the US.

Or, if that's too much to hope for, how about the US paying attention to foreign policy issues other than those which have a direct benefit to the USA, like Zimbabwe or Kazakhstan where repression and torture are commonplace.

Jacobsen: "We will take care of ourselves, we don´t need outsiders butting their noses in."

Ironic statement of the Decade

America is the greatest country in the world.. Good thing you don't care about your debt..

"just because I voted for Bush doesn't mean my sister is an idiot or that I'm a dumb hick"

Yeah it does. You have to be some kind of Neanderthal to vote for that bigot.

If only the US would butt out of world affairs when it isn't wanted, then perhaps foreigners wouldn't have much interest in US elections.

As it is, I can't wait to see the response next time Osama or some other nut bombs you. Apathy, I imagine.

Are Republicans just joking, or are they really morons.

I know that you lot complain that liberals accuse you of being morons, but they do so because it is true. You're all absolutely thick as pig ****. There really isn't any other reasonable response. Your arguments are the worst kind of trash and none of you have any conception of how modern economies work.

I'm sure glad I don't live in the US. Must feel really good to be black or gay there right now.

Ag, as much as I share your displeasure at
the result maybe, 'all as thick as pig S**t', is going a bit far.
The two things I find worrying about America is the naiveity regarding their own security and the perceived danger, and the untasteful mix of politics and religion.

Americans need to stop believing the bull regarding the threat that they are supposedly constantly under. Take a look at what you have had to concede,
your freedom, your wealth, your world wide popularity.

You are NOT in significant danger so chill and have some of that californian wine will you!

Did anyone watch that series on BBC2(UK)last night, the power of fears (or somat like that), very interesting indeed. They said that a worldwide structured terrorist network simply doesn't actually exist and that Bin Laden was not actually responsible for the 9-11 attacks.

Hey MCCFR, AG, Mike, why don´t you hassle your own country´s governments to tackle those problems you mention?

Because you know they can´t do anything but whine and whine and shuffle their bureaucratic feet while taking kickbacks and bribes - the "worldly" way that things are done.

What is your government doing to bring democracy and liberty to the people of the Middle East (and around the world?
What is your country doing to help the poor and uneducated of the world?
What is your country doing to help the oppressed people of Dafur?
What is your country doing to fight terrorists?
What is your country doing to fight pollution and improve the environment?
When was the last time your country took the lead and did something international that was not directly in its own self interest?

And MCCFR - Venezeula??? A dictatorship in the making that you are supporting?

Whine, whine, whine - did any of you even vote in your country´s last elections? Do they even have voting in your country?

chris w sez: "Take a look at what you have had to concede, your freedom, your wealth, your world wide popularity."

What loss of freedom? What did you lose?

Loss of wealth? How? Where? I make more money today and have more things today than 5 years ago. The cost of security is a lot cheaper than a nuke bomb destroying London or New York.

Lose of World Wide Popularity? Ooooh - I did not know it was a popularity contest. Is France ahead of Italy in the top 10 most popular nations or has Iceland finally nudged out Singapore as most popular. Silly.
And your ignorance of history is showing. During the cold war- from 1946 (approximately) until 1989 the entire Soviet bloc world had nuclear missiles pointed at the west they despised/hated/feared the west so much.
According to the commies the U.S. was not very popular.
Which country is most popular to you and what in the heck does it mean or prove?

And chrs w sez: "Americans need to stop believing the bull regarding the threat that they are supposedly constantly under."
That is because the actions against terrorists by George Bush and other governments around the world work!!!
Bush busted up the terror networks, took away most of their money supply, made Bin Laden fear for his life and hide in some cave. The terrorists are losing! Hurray for the leadership of George Bush!

Librium: IN case you didn't know, In Utero is the title of a Nirvana, as is Nevermind.

Wasn't having a dig. There really was not point in arguing, it would have fallen on deaf ears. Better to wait for 3 1/2 years and start trying again.

Either it will be even more obvious what an horrendous mistake has been made, or miraculously, Bush will have turned things around. I think he's expecting miracles, what with God being on his side and being on a crusade against 'evil' and all.

Hey Shaun... I like your type. The type that tells it like it is.

Hywel says "...what with God being on his side..."

And I take it you think believing in God is bad?
Strange.

In response to not chrisw:

Loss of freedom - I mean people being held without trial, databases of information stored on people, inconveniences due to travel and movement restrictions.

Loss of wealth - I mean the multi-billions spent on the Iraq war and a bogus war on organised terrorism, plus a president that has borrowed huge piles of cash do this while taking his eye off the economy.

Loss of popularity- Very important, the simple straight talking president may appeal to middle america, but it sure as hell pisses off young, demorilised islamic men.


Regarding...'During the cold war- from 1946 (approximately) until 1989 the entire Soviet bloc world had nuclear missiles pointed at the west they despised/hated/feared the west so much'

Yes and isn't it better now they don't because today there is constructive dialogue between Russia and the USA.

Hey foreign ass wipes,

we are very glad you don't live here too. Stay the f*ck out and go screw yourselves while you're at it. your pathetic little countries do nothing but cause problems and leach off the US. You people do absolutely nothing to make the world a better place. We hate you too!

Good Christian love to you too Fritz

Chris w,

you are demented! Reagan ended the cold war and not by being weak.

who gives a shit what france and germany thinks. we're not going to base our security on whether or not they'll get upset because they got caught arming our enemy when they should have been enforcing the UN resolutions.

I'd much rather have a little inconvenience traveling then have a terrorist blow up anything!

People like you are so out of touch it's pathetic. Once these angry islamic men have some freedom they probably won't be angry any more. If they are we'll take care of them.

Chris, you suck!

The truth is Bob, that the sovient empire crumbled because although it was believed to be strong, it was in fact very weak.

Keep it comin Bob, I just love to be told how much I suck!

not MCCFR or Ag or Mike:

Yes, we have free and fair elections here in the UK - and you don't even have to spend close to a billion dollars to buy them.

[B]What is your government doing to bring democracy and liberty to the people of the Middle East (and around the world? [/B]

Actually, the same as yours - just like we did between 1939 and 1945, whilst your country was busy profiteering from Nazi collaboration. Did someone say Ford or General Motors?


[B]What is your country doing to help the poor and uneducated of the world? [/B]

Writing off third-world debt.

[B]What is your country doing to help the oppressed people of Dafur?[/B]

Pretty much the same as you actually.

[B]What is your country doing to fight terrorists?[/B]

Well, we've been fighting terrorism for the best part of a century - the vast majority (Irish republicanism) of it liberally funded by Americans, such as lovable old hoofer, Gene Kelly.

[B]What is your country doing to fight pollution and improve the environment?[/B]

We signed up to something called Kyoto, and the average engine size in this country is between 1600cc and 2200cc as opposed to three litres plus.

[B]When was the last time your country took the lead and did something international that was not directly in its own self interest? [/B]

Going to war with the Germans over Poland ring any bells. Peacekeeping in Bosnia. Peacekeeping in Sierra Leone. Any of this ring any bells.

[B]And MCCFR - Venezeula??? A dictatorship in the making that you are supporting?[/B]

Democratically elected does not make a dictatorship, no matter what USAID or any other CIA front organisation cares to say.

Kazakhstan IS a fully-functioning dictatorship, and yet both your country and mine (shamefully) appear to be willing to condone torture and repression there.


[B]Whine, whine, whine - did any of you even vote in your country´s last elections? Do they even have voting in your country?[/B]

Didn't vote in my last election, becuase I'd just moved and had missed the registration deadline.

Other than that I've voted in every election - local, national, and EU since I reached the age of majority 24 years ago.

So I think the phrase I'm looking for is BITE ME!

Chris W:

Actually, it was The Power Of Nightmares and wasn't it a hoot over three episodes.

I particularly liked the bit in the first episode where somebody was argung that you could tell the Russians were up to something in 1975-6 because you couldn't find any evidence of any activity which meant that they must be doing something they shouldn't.

Oh, how I laughed when this all linked back to Rumsfeld as Ford's Secretary of Defense and Cheney as his Chief of Staff - oh, the irony.

Its the kind of programme that the BBC should be encouraged to make.

Chris, chris, chris, you are confused!
And if there was no US of A to beat the Soviets economically and militarily you still think that the Soviet Empire would have crumbled because it was weak??? Dream on.
The U.S. (along with western Europe, plus Japan and South Korea and Australia) beat them because we have a better political and economical system, plus much better military forces. It took nearly 50 years, but the U.S. won the Cold War and the Soviet empire crumbled. Reagan went in debt to do it, but the Soviets couldn´t put up the cash to meet Reagan´s gamble and continue developing their military or bribing/controlling all its colonies.

-----------
And regarding your comments:
"Loss of freedom - I mean people being held without trial, databases of information stored on people, inconveniences due to travel and movement restrictions."
REMARK: Do you personally know anyone that that has happened to? Not me. Visit Europe sometime. In Germany if you move to a town, you have to register with the local police. Move to another location, register with the local police. Everyone is issued a government ID card, a health card - why? to track all 80 million of them. You have no idea what loss of freedom means.

"Loss of wealth - I mean the multi-billions spent on the Iraq war and a bogus war on organised terrorism, plus a president that has borrowed huge piles of cash do this while taking his eye off the economy."
REMARK: Cheaper than what would happend if the terrorists were attacking in the U.S. The economy is plugging along fine after recovering from a Clinton recession, 911 attack and two wars which we won. It is getting better all the time. You rely too much on anti-Bush press for your information.

"Loss of popularity- Very important, the simple straight talking president may appeal to middle america, but it sure as hell pisses off young, demorilised islamic men."
REMARK: The islamic men were already demoralized from living under all the Middle East dictorships. The U.S. is trying to spread liberty for these people and democracy so they can enjoy the freedom of thought and expression that the western world has.
Why do think the terrorists are fighting in Iraq? They don´t want democracy installed in Iraq they want a religious dictatorship.
And don´t forget about the poor oppressed Islamic women that have to endure the daily discrimmination and mistreatment by the Islamic men.
Non-religious democracies would do wonders in the world.

Well now we know that not only are you anti-American, but also against your own UK government.
Must be real frustrating living in the the free western world and wishing to live in a pro-islamist, socialist country or a South American dictatorship.
Where could you move to?
France is not far away.

MCCFR, you just killed on your response - congratulations. Unfortunately, logic rarely has a place with these people. Most of them have voted based passionately on a) pro life, b) hatred of foreigners (Bush embodies this), c) their fear of getting their guns taken away, d) their fear in general of terrorsits (inexplicably they think Bush will protect them), or e) their anti-gay, anti-artist, anti-free thinker stance. These are the people that now rule the roost in America, and that is why it now is a truly scary country. God help us.

You and MCCFR should move to France together.

Regarding your list on how people voted:

I am for a woman´s right to have an abortion.
I am married to a foreigner.
I don´t own a gun.
I do fear terrorists - if you don´t you are a liar.
I am not anti-gay. I have many friends that are gay and one of my brother´s is gay.
I am an artist. (My fulltime job.)
I am a free thinker.
I am a registered Republican and I voted for Bush.

still, macs are great

"And to all you foreign contributors to this forum - hey, deride your own country´s government and people and leave ours alone! We will take care of ourselves, we don´t need outsiders butting their noses in."

Sorry dude when you make an attack on humanity, humans will respond. Your paranoid xenophobic isolationism will not save you, unless you pack your bags up, close your embassies and take your crap armies back to your country. I sure hope the UN moves out of there too.

If America is the greatest country in the world then why do the french surpass you when it comes to sex.

You are the best at war mongering, nothing more.

Attacking terrorists (alQueda) and dictators(Iraq) is not an attack on humanity.

How would you know that the French surpass the US when it comes to sex?
Are you referring to sex with sheep?
And glad to see that is where your brain is focused on.

Road Warrior sez: "You (the United States) are the best at war mongering, nothing more."
REPLY: Words of a true moron. Everything you eat, drink, sleep, wear, listen to today was either invented or discovered or produced or made better by someone from the United States.
If it was not for spirit of creation, entrepreneurship, innovation, education and politics and goodness of the people of the United States the world would be tangled, depressing mass of backward thinking, oppressive dictatorships. Think North Korea, Iran.

"You and MCCFR should move to France together"


riiiiiight. I'm sorry my mistake, you aren't those things, you're just a bigoted dickhead who thinks that the United states would be better if liberals left the country. As a free thinker you sure as hell don't use much logic. Anyway, I don't have time for your anger and your masturbation on this thread.

"Everything you eat, drink, sleep, wear, listen to today was either invented or discovered or produced or made better by someone from the United States."

Italian pizza is better, and your beer is crap. In fact, you boil all the flavour out of your food, and Hershey's chocolate tastes like a block of vegetable fat sprinkled with cocoa.

As for the American spirit of education, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha........

Come on, you have to admit that your argument is so full of holes it's like cheese (the best comes from Switzerland).

Why don't you call me on the MOBILE TELEPHONE (Finland), or use a JET AIRPLANE (France) to visit and tell me I'm wrong?

A belief in God is not necessarily a bad thing for an individual. Many of the teachings are simply about being fair and decent and honest (something a neo-con knows nothing of and the Christian right fail to understand).

The leader of the only superpower being a Christian nutjob, using words like "Crusade", is definitely a bad thing. A very bad thing indeed.

America's government is leaning too far towards Christian intolerance (it's a war on Islam as much as it is on 'terror' or for oil or regime change). It needs to be secular. The president should keep his religious beliefs for private or personal public moments. It should not be part of his official public image. It sets an appalling example.

Some of the reasons for founding America were for freedom from religious persecution. This is why secularism is enshrined in the constitution. Christian creationist nutjobs in the US mistakenly believe it was founded as a Christian nation. IT WAS NOT!

Persecution of Christians in America: Say What?

So Christians deserve as much protection in the constitution as every other religion or choice. But they certainly do no deserve more. They should not be able to amend the constitution to do that. If they do, they destroy the fundamental nature of America.

According to not MCCFR, to be opposed to Bush's government is to be anti-American. To be opposed to one's own government is somehow wrong.

This is the old 'you're either with us or against us' polar nonsense. By that token, almost 50% of the voting American people are anti-American.

That's as absurd as saying Buddhists are anti-American because they're not Christians.

G-Spank is right on the money. Your replies are simply lacking logical thought.

And did we ever get the links to the Happy Iraqi blogs ? I don't remember seeing them.

American instructions: Say

" Everything you eat, drink, sleep, wear, listen to today was either invented or discovered or produced or made better by someone from the United States."

Repeat as often as needed until you believe it.
Repeat as often as needed unitl you make it truth.

Well I can see you want to make the Americans the master race. Seig Bush.

Oh and for some truth to your claim. The most effecient method of converting light energy into chemical energy is still unsurpassed by you feeble yanks.

Your ego on the other hand, well I have to admit, nothing I have seen surpasses that.

But sometimes you yanks can be surpassed.
You can bully some of the people some of the time.
You can bully all of the people some of the time.
But you will never, ever bully all of the people all of the time.

Everybody here (except me) hates democracy!

"Everything you eat, drink, sleep, wear, listen to today was either invented or discovered or produced or made better by someone from the United States."

This is a joke right - no really, it must be.

American cuisine is an oxymoron. Coca-Cola is sugared water with caramel and caffeine.

Everything I sleep?? WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN. Americans sleep better or more than us - well that explains the general corpulence of the country, but I had absolutely no idea that sleep (an autonomic body function as far as I'm aware) could actually be improved simply by being American.

And Giorgio Armani is definitely better than Levis Jeans (German), or Tommy Hilfiger (Scandinavian) or even your "native" designers like Donna Karan or Ralph Lauren.

As for everything I listen to: the MP3 format was developed in Europe and I once heard that much of Dolby Laboratories initial money-generating work back in the Sixties was done in the glamorous confines of Camden in North London. And CDs were invented by little Dutch men in Eindhoven and I seem to recall the audio format for DVD-A is actually the work of a British audio company.

That and the fact that British loudspeaker technology is still the most widely respected in the world.

I know it goes against the grain for Americans to not believe that they invented everything, but really you didn't. Although you did steal a heck of a lot.

If it was not for America defeating the Germans in Europe in WWII all you Europeans would all be speaking German, all blacks, Jews and other minorities would be wiped out.

If it were not for America standing up against the Soviet Union in the Cold War all you "free thinking" Europeans would be either Stalinized or in some gulag or dead.

Nothing we have in todays would be if it were not for Americans. Even your Apple computer was created by an American.
The internet you use to moan about America was developed and commercialized by America. This website (I believe) is run by an American.

If it was not for Americans standing up to the oppressors of the world there would be no MP3 developed in Europe or Dolby Laboratories or any of it. You would either be a part of the Third Reich or a colony of the Soviet Union.

Years from now when liberty, freedom and democracy has spread through the Middle East the world will look back at these times and realize again - it took the United States to take the hard road and lead to a better world....again.

To all you non-Americans, spend your efforts complaining about your own do-nothing governments. You can´t vote in our elections, we do not care for your whining.