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Oct 23, 09 - 04:33 pm Comment from: Macintosher

Well, how about Apple buying out Sony (the two companies have always had some similarities, such as the ability to add high-end media and DTP software that's actually good at the point of ordering, and similar display and casing revolutions) and then we'd see what M$ would do with the remaining over-glossy horrible smarmy HP and the frankly dire Dell.

Actually, Microsoft should buy Dell if they're gonna do something along those lines. Certainly, MSFT has realized the advantage of locking software to hardware as in Halo with the Xbox.

Um, Steve Ballmer *IS* Steve Ballmer's Waterloo.

Oct 23, 09 - 04:41 pm Comment from: nm

One refinement might be to release a limited number of licences each year.

I wonder if Dvorak has read this article: Why Microsoft Will Slaughter Its Windows Mobile and PC Partners, and What it Means for Apple and Google.

Oct 23, 09 - 04:44 pm Comment from: Ray

What hit? How many Xbox's with RED EYE of DEATH syndrome does it take for people to understand that in the technical excellence category M$ is trash. The only hardware that M$ makes that I will consider buying is their input peripherals. It seems to be the only dept. at M$ that does good work.

just my $0.02

Oops, clicked "submit" too soon... relevant paragraph: "This will subsequently make it tempting, if not simply necessary, for Microsoft to release its own PC in order to keep its retail stores afloat, just as every other retailer sells its own house brand. After killing off its PlaysForSure partners and Windows Mobile partners, how secure will HP, Dell and Acer be in thinking that Microsoft won’t take away their businesses as well? After all, it makes no sense for Microsoft to operate retail stores that do nothing but lose money while its PC makers profit."

Oct 23, 09 - 04:51 pm Comment from: Microtard

This is a totally stupid idea. Why would Microsoft go after their hardware partners? That would surely drive some of them to other solutions such as Linux. In my opinion, a Microsoft retail store makes no sense at all. I predict they will be closed with one year.

Oct 23, 09 - 04:55 pm Comment from: iSteve

They make their own big ass tables so a MS laptop is the next step.

I was just wondering if any of those laptop hunters won't be able to upgrade to Windows 7 due to the poor/low specs.

Oct 23, 09 - 04:58 pm Comment from: Microtard

The Big Ass Table (BAT) is irrelevant to this discussion. No individual is going to walk into a MS store and purchase a big ass table. Also - there is no-one else marketing a big ass table - so Microsoft did not have to worry about competing with a partner (or potential partner). A Microsoft branded laptop makes no sense at all. Maybe even less sense than a Microsoft retail store.

He's just trolling for hits but Dvorak is actually right. M$ wants to be like Apple and the only way to do that is to "build the whole widget". Won't ever happen of course & even if it did it's M$ so they'd screw it up.

Oct 23, 09 - 05:08 pm Comment from: Famous Grouse

First Enderle and now Dvorak. A couple very large villages are missing their idiots today.

Oct 23, 09 - 05:11 pm Comment from: John E

if MS started selling MS PC's, all its doublle-crossed OEM "partners" would start selling cheaper Linux PC's. that would be the beginning of the end of the Windows monopoly. so i don't think so.

although ... there are credible rumors that MS intends to do exactly this with a WinMo 7 "pink" phone next year, stabbing its smartphone OEM's in the back (in the face, actually), who will then mostly switch to Android (which is Linux).

so maybe MS will test this idea with smartphones first and then, if it pays off, do it with PC's too in a couple of years. could happen.

(except an MS PinkPhone would be another Zune-like dog and flop.)

Apple will never license OS X to PC makers, period. They are a hardware company that uses software to differentiate themselves. It's part of their brand and their reputation. Giving that to other companies would be a terrible mistake. They're doing just fine the way they are.

Oct 23, 09 - 05:17 pm Comment from: MDmac

What happen at the Windows 7 Launch paaarties?

Oct 23, 09 - 05:25 pm Comment from: Predrag

..."Microsoft retail store makes no sense at all. I predict they will be closed with one year."

Microsoft never killed a money-losing product or a service after barely a year. What they always do is keep dumping money into it, in hope of wearing out competitors and coming out on top. It may have worked with X-box, but mostly, it never works (witness Zune, WinMobile, MSN Search, MS Live, and very likely, soon Bing and Pink as well). They will keep these divisions running, losing money, year after year. How long? We don't know, since there is no precedent; their prior money-losing ventures are still running, losing money. The only thing to go on would be Microsoft Bob, which was quickly killed after it failed, but this was very long time ago, and the IT world was very different.

Oct 23, 09 - 05:27 pm Comment from: Spudly

Yup. The whole world's been waiting for brown PCs that squirt!!

Oct 23, 09 - 05:30 pm Comment from: qka

If Dvorak recommends canceling the MS stores, and he is always on the opposite side of correct, does that make them a good idea?

Oh wait, their Ballmer's idea. That makes them a bad idea.

I'm confused.

Oct 23, 09 - 05:50 pm Comment from: Jim - TIV

@MDmac...

just saw this quote from the MS video explaining how to burn a CD in the new version of Windows.

"First I just find the genre of burnable things. I click on that. Then, of course, I narrow down the categories of things to burn and click it. Then I find what I want to burn, then I click on it again, and then I tell it I want to burn it. Then I confirm that I want to burn it. Then I pick a name. Click. Click to confirm. Then I select where I want to burn it. I confirm that. Then I choose Audio, of course. Then I confirm burning an Audio CD. Then I confirm the name of what I want to burn. Then I confirm that I'm finished, and then viola! It's burns the CD. It's just that easy!"

That portion of the video had me laughing my @$$ off at the absurdity of it.

Oct 23, 09 - 05:55 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

I love the idea. More choice and competition is what Microsoft is all about. MAC sufferers don't have choice, but Windows enthusiasts do. That's what's so funny about MAC dorks being elitist, smug bastards. Hey MAC lemmings: you're stuck!

I'm sure HP, Dell & the rest of them would welcome the chance to fight it out with their partner, like a tennis match between business competitors at the country club they share. At the end of the day they would have drinks and congratulate each other on a game well played. Networking gear, Surface, Zune and xBox are awesome examples of Microsoft's prowess in hardware engineering. What's that smell? Oh that's right. Fear. It's coming from Cupertino.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Oct 23, 09 - 06:00 pm Comment from: Cowboy

It wouldn't surprise me if MS made this move. They continually shaft their partners... (and customers)

MS gets more pathetic every day.

Your post is just so sad. Microsoft enthusiast. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I cannot stop laughing at the idea.

Oct 23, 09 - 06:08 pm Comment from: Microtard

@Zune Tang. LOL. No choices. LOL. Hard choices. Yes. Let's see. iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac Pro, Mac mini, X Serve.

HP, Dull, LOL.

@Jim - TIV:

I'd love to see that video clip. Do you have an address for it?

Business 101. Stick with what you do best and be the best.

Moving to hardware? I dont think so. But if they do they should consider their demographics and do wheel chairs.

Oct 23, 09 - 06:22 pm Comment from: Demon

Microsoft releasing is own PC and/or Laptop would be the end to Windows OEM PC Box builders, as the abandon Microsoft. Some would go to a generic UNIX/Linux and then build their Own Custom UI. Other would toss the door wide open for Google's Chrome OS to walk right in an kick OEM Windows to the Curb.

Enterprise would also start to move away from Windows as the OEM's move to another OS.

Who in their right mind would take a hit whore like Dvorak home to mama.

Oct 23, 09 - 06:36 pm Comment from: Jubei

Wrong Mr. Deborass. MS should spend every single bit of dollars they have now and build the exact number of Apple stores to counter. Spend it all Ballmer, you can do it.

The "desktop PC" is already dead. Sure, some corporate/enterprise sales will continue, but the much bigger profitable segment from future consumer electronic sales will not come from a deadtop box.

Oct 23, 09 - 06:39 pm Comment from: Apelock

I just bought Snow Leopard at an Apple Store. I like the Apple Store. I played Sims on an iPhone, checked email and created an ugly desktop for the computer using PhotoBooth, and nobody hassled me, but when I wanted to check out, there was an assistant right there to get me on my way. Somehow I imaging the MS store experience going down a whole different avenue.

I know its old news - but it still fits.

http://notnews.today.com/2009/01/24/microsoft-uk-launches-msn-musicturd-service/microsoft-zune-anus-logo/

I love you John C Dvorak!

Oct 23, 09 - 07:22 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

It's already happened. I posted on another article about last nights' episode of '30 Rock'. There was a guy using a black laptop with a white Windows logo on it. Honest.

Oct 23, 09 - 07:39 pm Comment from: Elsic1975a

MS has made some amazing hardware, including hardware that was the best in the entire market. The hardware? The Sidewinder joysticks and gamepads. Amazing design, sturdy, reliable (I should know; mine got chucked across the room. Thanks, Wing Commander).

Oh, wait...they killed that line and introduced the Xbox with the Rocky controller for people with gorilla hands.

Oops, my bad.

well, that's possible because MS has wasted so much money for doing nothing. they still have so much left money whatever they want. but if they make their own brand PC, I will be interested or buy it. I guess that design will be just cool like zune HD with lower price. I can see easily see their future what if they would make.

Oct 23, 09 - 08:23 pm Comment from: ken1w

Apple should continue with the current no licensing of Mac OS X model until Mac market share reaches about 25%. At that point, Apple can consider if selling Mac OS X licenses (presumably to a larger audience) will be more profitable than selling Mac hardware with exclusive Mac OS X. Yes, it may be possible to continue selling Mac hardware while licensing Mac OS X to others. But that's what Apple tried to do before, and it was disastrous.

As long Apple sells Mac and Mac OS X together, Apple's competition is HP, Dell, Acer, Toshiba, and the rest of the crowd. Apple's true competition is NOT Microsoft. As soon as Apple starts licensing Mac OS X, the current competitors become partners and Microsoft becomes the competition.

So, in my opinion, on the day Apple decides to license Mac OS X (if it ever happens), Apple needs to do it in a big way. If Steve Jobs is calling the shots, I know it will be a huge move, not some half-assed "you sell the low end and we sell the high end" scheme; it won't be a compromised "play it safe" attempt like last time. It will be a radical change, like the change from PowerPC to Intel, only bigger.

And that's exactly why Microsoft might actually do what Dvorak suggests, because unlike Apple, Microsoft does make compromised decisions and half-assed attempts. They did it before with music players, where they turned former partners into competitors while still pretending to be good partners. And that move destroyed most of the iPod's competition. Now they are thinking about doing the same thing with mobile phones.

This
"Dvorak writes, "It's time for Microsoft to take the next step in its evolution "

Should really say this:
Dvorak writes, "It's time for Microsoft to take the next step in its emulation "

It's absolutely sickening how Apple is Microsoft's R&D;source and how Microsoft, with over 90% world wide market share HAS TO COPY ALMOST EVERY THING APPLE DOES!!!

Oct 23, 09 - 08:37 pm Comment from: Steveeee

No. Apple will never license OSX to anyone. It don't need to.

Oct 23, 09 - 09:44 pm Comment from: alansky

So who's gonna design these Microsoft PC's? Clarabell the Clown?

Oct 23, 09 - 10:41 pm Comment from: An Optimist

It would be easy for Microsoft to get into PC hardware manufacturing. They can acquire Dell. It would be a better deal for Dell than MS, and would give Michael Dell an exit strategy.

Looks like Zune-Boy is off his meds again....

Such hostility! Why is This Village Idiot here instead of hanging out with his peers?

If that's not a sign of mental illness, I don't know what is- nice life, Tang-O! Having fun yet?

(Either a "yes" or "no" is incriminating..)

Microsoft's entire concept of a store is stupid. They already have enough product exposure. Apple opened their stores so they could dedicate the customer's time to seeing Apple solutions sold by a staff that could evangelize the Apple products.To come out with PCs with the Microsoft would just put them in conflict with their biggest customers .. their OEMs.

Oct 24, 09 - 12:40 am Comment from: m159

Dvorak sees the decline, but not the cause. Microsoft today reported a loss of 39% of licensing revenues, and yet a drop of 52% in licensing earnings, too large a discrepancy to blame on economies of scale. In other words, clients are fleeing msft's mostly-profit licenses, the source that funds all the bad ideas and evil crimes committed by this company. They can't replace that fountain of free money with proceeds from low-profit hardware sales. microsoft is rotting and they don't know how to actually create anything. Their leadership has always been unimaginative and technologically illiterate.

@ken1w:

I don't think it will be about market share being around 25%. It will be when the profits from the Mac division are sufficiently low as a proportion of the overall profit.

IOW when the revenue from other sources - iPhone, iTunes and whatever else comes down the track, is stable and sufficient to hold the company up whilst it takes the hit from lower profits on licensing.

Even then I think they will be very selective in who they allow to license OSX

Won't happen. They'd be respnsible for both hard- and software and have no one else to blame. The symbiosis windows and pc vendors is perfect for them; neither one needs to take full responsiblity for customer frustration. Most customers can't even pinpoint the blame. The result is frustration and what will ultimately bring down the two.

Microsoft would never create its own PC.

To do so would alienate all its customers, and the customers would be forced to create their own LINUX machines. HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc... would roll out Linux optimized hardware, or maybe try some Tier 9 niche system like Haiku or whatever.

That would be what I'd call "fantastic fragmentation" for Apple.

I can't wait for Microsoft to release their Windows PC.

The WOW would really start!

"The day Microsoft releases a Microsoft PC is the the day Steve Jobs signs strict Mac OS X licensing deals (in which Apple closely approves and certifies the hardware) with HP, Sony, Lenovo, and/or other PC box assemblers"

When are you going to get this, instead of rambling on forever in Enderle-esque ingorant bliss: Apple will not, repeat NOT!, license OSX. Not willingly. Just do the numbers. What would they do it for? "Market share"? Of what? Number of OS:es? I think they'll continue to set their sights on market share in profits, where they do excellently, thank you very much. They have more CASH than most competitiors MARKET CAP fer chrissakes! Why would they risk this to sell more 29.99 copies of OSX while losing 999 iMac sales? To look better in a OS statistics column somewhere? Get over this. Give it up. Get real.

Oct 24, 09 - 09:51 am Comment from: m159

Correction to my earlier message, 5 posts north of this one. Should read: Microsoft today reported a loss of 39% of WINDOWS revenues, and yet a drop of 52% in WINDOWS earnings.... Thus the conclusion their licensing business is drooping. Such a trend would have profound implications for msft profitability.

Oct 24, 09 - 09:57 am Comment from: LTD*

"Steve Jobs signs strict Mac OS X licensing deals (in which Apple closely approves and certifies the hardware) with HP, Sony, Lenovo, and/or other PC box assemblers (Dell can SIDAGTMBTTS). With $30+ billion in the bank, iPhone, iPod (and maybe even a tablet) Apple could easily afford to take whatever hit to Mac hardware sales would occur with such a move.* The personal computer operating system landscape would change dramatically for the better overnight."


I had to read that twice to believe it. What's with the drug-induced MDN take?

The sole reason, the SOLE reason Apple's Mac business is thriving (in a recession!) is because of its differentiation. OS X tied to the hardware.

Strict licensing deals?? What?? Apple can barely keep tabs on stupid Nvidia, and you can bet that dictating terms to AT&T;isn't child's play. Microsoft can barely control its partners (hence, its horrible business model), who are all jockeying for the bottom end . . . because they have NO WAY to differentiate themselves. And Apple is going to be able to dictate terms to these unimaginative, generic, also-ran box-makers? Sony is NOT Apple. Lenovo (ugh!) is NOT Apple. The only way Apple can assure quality control is to either stick with a single manufacturer (Intel) or buy Sony, Lenovo, and anyone else it wants to sign these "strict" fantasy-like licensing deals with.

Playing on the exact same field as MS is a losing proposition. OS X will become a Windows clone, and there goes any and everything that makes OS X desirable. Right out the window.

And what's more, in light of Apple's ridiculous success (in a recession!) with its current model (recession proof!), why on earth would anyone want to change it?? In fact, the rest of the industry is doing all they can to emulate Apple!

What, Sony and Lenovo are going to come out with a special "premium" OS X line?? Dream on. IT'S STILL NOT A MAC.

This universal licensing garbage has been tried before and it failed. It will fail again, now more than ever, since differentiation, brand power, and the benefits of ruling the Premium market are today's keys to success.

And MS can never create its own PC. To late for that, unless it wants to completely destroy its relationship with the box-makers. HP, Lenovo and the rest are already fighting for the bottom-end, so now you think they'll also be able to eat a drop in unit sales?? Volume sales is all these companies have now. So will that make them run crying to Apple? They most certainly can try. But Apple would be dumb to take them.

What an absolutely senseless MDN take. Really out of character.

Oct 24, 09 - 10:33 am Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

@ themotie and LTD*,

I too was taken aback by that statement by MDN. It appears to entirely go against their long held philosophy. But personally, for quite some time I have thought that this scenario was possible under the right circumstances.

Unless one is privy to the mind of Steve Jobs and can peer into the future, then MDN's take is no more senseless than anyone elses. Never say never.