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Aug 11, 09 - 06:00 pm Comment from: Bob

Didn't they just come out with an update. Go Apple, Go!

Aug 11, 09 - 06:01 pm Comment from: Yours Smugly

Snappier as it goes... Lots of these tiny incremental updates to Safari lately.

Aug 11, 09 - 06:02 pm Comment from: TowerTone

OK, I'll say it-
It's very clappy!

Out of interest, anyone know why the size is 13mb larger for Leopard? Just curious...

so snappy it now anticipates my mouse clicks

I only want the Blue Progress Bar back!!!!!

@Your Mom Bluray

Why? You still using a dial up modem waiting for pictures to load?

Aug 11, 09 - 07:02 pm Comment from: BC Kelly

Week or so ago, finally made jump to regular 4.x

Which means kept using 4 Beta for long time, why ?

Like the Tabs on top

(yea, a majority of one, but always did Think Different™)


Use Window Shade a lot, so was able to still see Tabs when Window was "rolled up"

Can't do that any more, and miss it .... sooooo

Were lots of "app/stuff" to move Tabs DOWN with Beta

Any "app/stuff" around now to move Tabs back UP TOP ?


Appreciate any feedback/tips, thanks, BC

I'm with You Mom Bluray, I want my blue progress bar back.
I don't mind going to the preference window, it doesn't have to be the default. But I do want it back.

does it require a restart... like the other Safari updates? if it does.. then... boooo.

It does require a restart..! WTH Apple..! why do I have to restart my damn computer just to update the freaking browser? I guess they are trying to make the switchers feel at home????

Aug 11, 09 - 08:48 pm Comment from: Arnold Ziffel

Waa waa. So it requires a restart. BFD.

Aug 11, 09 - 08:54 pm Comment from: TowerTone

Jesus Christ! What's with the salty language?

Aug 11, 09 - 09:07 pm Comment from: MainMan

That's great that they updated it. Shame I still can't use it. Every version of Safari 4 (including the beta!) has never opened up on my MacBook Pro. I have a 15" 2.2MHz 120GB I bought in 2007 and every version has refused to open. I can only use Safari 3 on this computer and can't afford a new one.

Aug 11, 09 - 09:09 pm Comment from: MainMan

It does work on my 15" flat-panel iMac I bought in 2001 running Tiger! Go figure.

Aug 11, 09 - 09:31 pm Comment from: ken1w

@ MainMan

Are you running the latest version of either Tiger or Leopard?

Have you run Disk Utility and used "Repair Disk Permissions" on the First Aid tab?

If so, try creating a new admin user account in System Preferences Accounts pane. Log out and log in to the new user account. In the new account, try running the latest Safari. If it works there, there is something amiss in your normal user account. Perhaps you can try trashing the Safari preference (.plist) file.

MainMan.. have you tried repairing permissions?

Arnold.. Waa my but. If you think it's ok to have to restart after a minor browser update.. there's a Win 95 box in hell waiting just for you

I understand that Apple is trying out a new installer engine.. but having to restart after a minor patch is very Windows-like.. in fact.. us Mac fanboys used to make fun of the Windows fanboys for having to restart after every minor system change.. and now we are drinking the same punch.. or. at least.. Arnold is.

Aug 11, 09 - 09:34 pm Comment from: Jim - TIV

or MainMan could just book an appointment at the Genius bar and they could fix it in a snap. It does sound like a preferences file corruption to me also...

Aug 11, 09 - 09:37 pm Comment from: ken1w

Not surprised by the fast update. Since upgrading to 4.0.2, I've had some spinning beachballs at seemingly random intervals, while using Safari. They do go away after about 15-20 seconds, but during that time, I can't do anything in Safari (although other running apps are not affected). Going for the update now, after I do my usual "Repair Disk Permissions" in Disk Utility.

Aug 11, 09 - 09:40 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

Snappy? I say it's crappy. Because it's from MAC.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Aug 11, 09 - 09:41 pm Comment from: ken1w

@ Jesus

It requires a restart because the underlying Webkit components are updated. Webkit is also used by Mail, iChat, and probably other applications that may or may not be running on your system at the time of the update.

Seems quite a bit quicker to me.

Aug 11, 09 - 09:53 pm Comment from: ken1w

@ Mark S.

> Seems quite a bit quicker to me.

Yeah. Really. And this is not a "it's snappier" joke. With the previous 4.0.x versions, I had a 5 second or so delay when starting Safari as the first window opened up. That is totally gone. And opening sites from Top Sites seems faster too.

SUCKS!!!!
Updated and now I get page freezes!

The last update was a little buggy -- occasional freezes. But, this one has occurred more often -- Safari definitely doesn't like Facebook!

Aug 11, 09 - 11:09 pm Comment from: alansky

Safari 4 is occasionally quitting since the 10.5.8 update. Installing Safari 4.0.3 doesn't seem to have improved the situation. Sigh...

that still does not justify having to restart the system. a restart is a system-wide event... updating an application(s) is not... unless your talking about Internet Explorer and Windows... catch my drift?

Aug 11, 09 - 11:20 pm Comment from: ken1w

Installing QuickTime requires a restart. That is because a lot of applications use QuickTime. Just like with WebKit. A lot of apps use its components. If you noticed, installing iTunes does NOT require a restart. Because installing iTunes is self-contained to just iTunes. Catch my drift?

Aug 11, 09 - 11:23 pm Comment from: El Guapo

It runs on my 800MHz eMac with Leopard.

Aug 12, 09 - 12:22 am Comment from: derekcurrie

BUG in Intel Safari 4.0.3 INSTALLER:
If you install Safari v4.0.3 and you find it locks up while loading a page, permanent sit-and-spin mode with the twirling lollipop of doom, RESTART your Mac AGAIN. Problem gone.

This is the second time within a week Apple have distributed an update with a faulty script. Shame on Apple. (And kids, I am no troll. When Apple f's up, I say so. This is not flame bait. Settle down).

The other faulty script: For the original Combo update version of 10.5.8. It damaged the permissions database. Read all about it at MacFixIt. (The normal Software Update updater script was apparently not affected).

Aug 12, 09 - 12:32 am Comment from: derekcurrie

Anonymous 'Jesus' sez: "It does require a restart..! WTH Apple..! why do I have to restart my damn computer just to update the freaking browser?"

Why: The update requires and installs a newer, more secure version of Webkit, which is a fundamental piece of Mac OS X. Webkit is used by many other applications on the Mac, not just Safari. In order for any application, including Safari, to use the new version of Webkit, the OS must be restarted. PITA reminiscent of Windows restart hell, but in this case it actually makes logical sense.

Aug 12, 09 - 12:35 am Comment from: derekcurrie

Anonymous 5andman sez: "SUCKS!!!! Updated and now I get page freezes!"

See my first comment above about restarting your Mac AGAIN after installation. It's a bug in the Intel installer script...

@ Jesus you ignorant slut;

What part of "Webkit is also used by Mail, iChat, and" other Apps can't your feeble brain equate to being a system wide event?

Numbskull?

Webkit is NOT Safari, it's a core technology used across the system and therefore IS a system wide event.

MW "saying" as in I'm just saying you're a poor excuse for a troll

Aug 12, 09 - 04:46 am Comment from: enzos

@MainMan

Listen up, good buddy. Take the contents out of /Library/InputManagers .. Safari should then work.. and, if it's anything like my problem, you can then put the contents back in the InputManagers folder and it will *still* work (why? I do not know ..)

Aug 12, 09 - 04:58 am Comment from: enzos

I might add that got really tired of Firefox by the time I got Safari working again. Just a matter of taste I guess... too many knobs and bells and whistles.

mooo, yes.... I'm a slut.... but that has nothing to do with my point.... every update to safari has required a restart in recent memory.

one of the major problems with Windows in the past was having to reboot after every update.

Having to restart after every Safari update reminds me of windows.

Not too long ago.... you pretty much never had to restart your Mac for anything but an OS update.

I understand why this needed a reboot... but it's the idea of having to reboot every time Safari is updated that I am complaining about.

Microsoft has felt a lot of pain because of the way the integrated IE into the OS... I hope Apple does not go down the same road.

Already? Did Palm get a workaround that fast?

Aug 12, 09 - 08:09 am Comment from: ken1w

@ Jesus

> every update to safari has required a restart in recent memory.

And Safari every update in the future will as well, for reasons already explained and apparently not understood.

I did not realize there was an absolute rule that said, "If it's an application update, don't require a restart." So you actually think it would be better and less confusing if the Safari software update process brought up a dialog that said, "Please quit the following applications: Safari, Mail, iChat, AddressBook..." and then monitored the system to make sure those applications (1) were closed and (2) were not reopened during the installation. And if the user forgot which apps they could not run and tried to run iChat, bring up a dialog that said, "iChat cannot be used at this time."

Ten times as many clueless Mac users would be complaining about having to quit Mail to install Safari, and you would no doubt be one of them.

As usual, Apple made the smart choice and decided it was simpler and less confusing to tell the user a restart was required and lock the user out during the installation process, then restart the system. Obviously the right answer.

I believe it's you that is missing the point.

I understand WHY the update requires a restart.. it's not for the reason you stated above, btw (because it would be confusing for the user...). But lets run with that idea anyway. You honestly think its better to have an unnecessary restart instead of the update process simply interrupting the applications it is updating?

I should have to stop my work so my chat client and web browser can be updated???

Not an efficient way to do things.. and Apple stayed away from this philosophy for years.. which made the Apple experience that much better.

As I have said before.. integrating the web browser with the OS is a horrible idea... Doing so has been a major contributing factor to Microsoft's security woes.. and will likely be a problem for Apple too (think "drive by" web exploits).

So lets clear this up.. just in case you still don't understand.

We agree that Apple has made it necessary for a restart after a browser update.

You think this is a good idea... your reason given... so customers aren't confused during the process?

I think it's a bad idea.. for security and usability concerns.

Aug 12, 09 - 08:53 am Comment from: ken1w

@ Jesus

> As I have said before.. integrating the web browser with the OS is a horrible idea...

Please tell us how Safari is "integrated" into the OS. You make a statement as if it is true, yet do not present any facts. Just because a restart is needed to install Safari does NOT mean Safari is part of the OS.

@Jesus,

I'm pissed because I have to reboot my Mac when I install RAM. WTH? I have to shut down, plug in new stick, and push the power button! Is this 'thinking differently?' NO!

Yes Arnold... installing RAM and updating your browser are in the same league... what was i thinking. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Ken, see moo's post above regarding Webkit.

And if moo is wrong... ? and this is really only an update to the browser and it's components.... having to reboot is even more ridiculous.

Aug 12, 09 - 09:44 am Comment from: ken1w

moo is just another poster. I don't count him/her as an authority any more than I count you as one. I'm asking YOU to point to actual facts that indicate Safari is integrated (as you say) into the OS. You said it like you knew it was true, with no doubts about it.

I've already given my argument why it makes sense to require a restart. I don't think my reasoning is "ridiculous," because Apple is all about keeping it simple from the user's perspective. Telling the user that a restart is needed is a more "useable" solution that telling the user to please quit these X applications. Locking the user account out during the installation process is also more "secure," which (now that I think about it) may be a more important reason for requiring a restart.

Be aware of your frustration.

Doh!! Safari, not iTunes, Dummy.

What I get for posting before the coffee is made.

You have to do a reboot in OS X after any update that has Kernel level access.

WebKit is a .kext (Kernel Extension).. and as you pointed out.. many other apple applications need webkit to run.

Kernel and firmware updates should be the only things requiring system’s reboot.... everything else, including iTunes, iPhoto, , Safari....and Webkit, can be done with a simple service restart... but for some reason.. Apple tucked webkit deeply into the OS.

There is a big difference between having the OS tell you that it needs to quit your open webkit-based ... and having to drop everything for a reboot... The only user interaction in the first scenario is to press a button.. the second scenario requires you to drop everything for a reboot.

Aug 12, 09 - 11:31 am Comment from: DLMeyer

There are a couple of Memory Leaks in the stuff that runs on my computer. While I suspect World of Warcraft is the main villain, I KNOW it is the one that does the most complaining - and failing. So ... I wait until the situation gets annoying (WoW becomes erratic) then update and re-boot. Sometimes I just have to reboot without the update. Almost like running Windows, but much less frequent. I'm hoping SL (and more RAM) will either fix the problem or make the delay between reboots VERY long ... yearly?

Wake me when this POS comes with an UNINSTALLER.

Aug 12, 09 - 02:24 pm Comment from: derekcurrie

Anonymous 'Jesus' is very disappointing. He sez:
"WebKit is a .kext (Kernel Extension).. and as you pointed out.. many other apple applications need webkit to run."

A) No one said it is a .kext. It is integrated into Mac OS X in two pieces that were replaced by the Safari 4.0.3 update:

(1) /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/WebKitDashboardSupport.framework/Frameworks/Webkit.framework/Versions/A/Webkit

2) /System/Library/Frameworks/WebKit.framework

These are system level pieces of Mac OS X. You CAN'T just quit an application and restart it to have the application use the new frameworks. You have to RESTART THE OS. Got it? No? Then please STFU and do your homework before you post again. We are not here to do your homework for you.

are you that dense! That's entirely my point! The browser and it's components are so deeply embedded into the os that every update requires a reboot! You think it's ok for your browser to be that deep into the system? Did you like Windows 95? Why is this so hard to understand?

You have no point.

Safari isn't embedded into OS X at all, and WebKit isn't a component belonging to it. "Deep into the system"? It's about as deep into the system as Text Edit.

Maybe you should try using a Mac sometime.

Aug 13, 09 - 01:40 pm Comment from: derekcurrie

@Jesus: BWAHAHAHA! So determined to be a troll. OK, I give. You're a troll.

Watch out for the light of truth! You'll turn to stone.