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May 08, 08 - 02:18 pm Comment from: Brian Allen

Is he thinking that the future is based on people being able to change the apps, hardware, and so fourth.

This is crazy. We don't get car improvements because I can tinker with my car.

May 08, 08 - 02:20 pm Comment from: Ampar

What a load of horseshit.

From the same article:

"The rise of viruses and fraud has also led to tighter controls on PCs, particularly those in schools, universities, offices and public places, Zittrain says."

He's obviously never used an iPhone or a Mac.

May 08, 08 - 02:21 pm Comment from: twodales

Hey, jackass, the iPhone and devices like will put the power of the internet in the hands of everyone on the planet. That power will transform this culture in ways that we have not dreamed about. The social aspects of these devices is staggering.

This was obviously written before the release of the iPhone SDK, which promises to remove some of the "sterility" that he bemoans.

As to the ability of a "box owner" like Apple, Microsoft or RIM to push updates to the consumer, I think on balance that most consider this a good thing in a time when people demand improved security and rapid update of features to their devices. I will admit this also can be abused - turning off "jailbroke" iPhones or Xbox's hacked to run Linux being a couple of examples.

How many "consumers" out there really are the sort of tinkerers that he says are being cut out of this opportunity to "advance"? Are they really going to let the evolution of things like Xboxes and iPhones stop them? The number of threads about jailbreaking iPhones seems to indicate...."no"?

I tinker with my iPhone just fine. And so do thousands of others. Just ask the iPhoneDev Team

Publish or perish. This guy published and his idea will probably perish.

There is lots of room for various devices. Recently, the public likes Apple products better than just about anything else.

But then that's the result of a free market, not a tenure system.

May 08, 08 - 02:28 pm Comment from: dd

The iPhone will surely break the InturWebby. The iPhone will remove all those beautiful IE-only sites. Surely, Gatesy and Ballmsy can fix the problem.

@twodales
"Hey, jackass, the iPhone and devices like will put the power of the internet in the hands of everyone on the planet. That power will transform this culture in ways that we have not dreamed about. The social aspects of these devices is staggering."

We just don't know if the change will be for good or bad yet.And we won't know until the change happens.

May 08, 08 - 02:31 pm Comment from: cptnkirk

Marshall McLuhan would have identified the iPhone and the other devices mentioned as hot media. they are definitely interactive and compelling. They are totally different from the TV which is a cool medium and does not demand interaction.

Certainly the iPhone brings a very high level of interaction including the ability to create and distribute new software for its use in an easy and very accessible manner. This feature alone will spur incredible creativity in how people interact and use information.

It's very exciting!!

This guy's just trying to get an audience by being a naysayer!

May 08, 08 - 02:33 pm Comment from: ndelc

His argument is ridiculous because devices like the iPhone aren't <i>replacing/i> computers, they're being used in addition to them. The tinkering that has always gone on will continue to go on.

I read this article a few days ago and re-read it just now. It's not that I disagree with this guy - I just don't even begin to understand what he's talking about. What's more, I don't think he does either.

"Unlike home computers, new Internet-enabled gadgets don't lend themselves to the sort of tinkering and collaboration that leads to technological advances, he says.

OK? But if I can't tinker with my iPhone, how does that affect the internet? And even if tinkering with my iPhone was in some way relevant to internet innovation, it's not like computers and other devices that we can "tinker" with are going away.

Does this article even begin to make sense?

How do people like this actually become Professors of anything, when their intelligence is well south of a 6th form debating society. Most of the innovation on the PC was/is done by Apple, or on the Apple platform despite it being argued time and again this was a 'tied' platform. The so called 'open' platform that is windows has simply stagnated or copied the more innovative platform that is the Mac. equally all the tinkering has led to it as experts are beginning to recognise a bloated fur ball of an operating system that actually fears real innovation for the damage it can do to its innards. The iPhone has already innovated more in its short life span than mobile phones have in many many years. Sometimes it actually really helps to open your eyes before your mouth.

This guy's thinking is very short-sighted. I would agree that if desktop and laptop computers vanished tomorrow, that yes, the internet would suffer if the only way to access or design for it was with iPhones or other mobile devices.

But that's not going to happen — just like these people who say that the desktop computer will not exist in 10 years are thinking with half a brain cell. That's bull.

There will always be a need for the desktop. There will always be a need for the laptop — even as it's form factor changes. And now there will be very good reason to have the internet in your pocket, too. They overlap, folks. None completely threatens the demise of the other.

In fact, taken together, a beautiful desktop (iMac, perhaps), with a gorgeous ultra-portable (Macbook Air, anyone) and a small multimedia device (ahem, iPhone, ahem, Touch) is one hell of a great 1-2-3 punch.

The internet is going to be more than fine. In the U.S., all we really need is better broadband and wireless. THAT's what is stifling innovation here.

May 08, 08 - 02:40 pm Comment from: Dave - Colorado

Does he not understand that most iPhone owners ALSO have computers that are "tinkerable"? iPhones promote more people using the internet, or using it more often than just at their computers. That provides the demand for tinkerers. There is also the fact that people that tinker, do so because they enjoy it. They will still tinker. What about the kid that cracked the iPhone shortly after it was released? People are going to open and tinker with even the "closed, sterile boxes" that Apple and RIMM don't want you tinker with. "kill the internet"....Creative people MADE the iPhone. Creativity cannot be killed by the iPhone. It will probably inspire creativity, even "in the internet".

May 08, 08 - 02:44 pm Comment from: HolyMackerel

If he was talking about consoles he might have an argument…

May 08, 08 - 02:45 pm Comment from: Demon

Actually the iPhone has caused at convergence of sort it's destroying the artificial idea that websites must be Mobile Browser segregated. This is causing a flurry of talk and innovations around browser standards and standards of HTML, CSS and JavaScript.

Without the iPhone web designers would have happily gone along with Microsoft's idea of Mobile Browsing in making everything boring and fitting it to cell phone screens. The iPhone and with it the iPod touch are changing the game by giving users the Full Internet in their pocket.

This "theory" overlooks the simple fact that the preponderance of users have little or no interest in tinkering or modifying, and that for those users that do, there are any number of platforms and options available.

Yea, I can't "tinker" with my commode either and that has really constipated my creativity although it hasn't slowed down the primordial urges issuing from between my loins.

Same goes for my blender and my toaster.

The guy really hasn't done much homework has he.

Calling Unix 'sterile' is a bit much. Can't see him getting many takers for this opus magnum.

May 08, 08 - 03:04 pm Comment from: HMCIV

I agree with Professor Zittman. I would never have come so far on the internet if I didn't have an expansion port on my Apple ][ for custom hardware, or the ability to write my own software.

But thankfully Apple had the foresight to think to the future then. Now I, with the help of a hand made cable and a custom built driver, I can use iPhone as a wireless modem AND a screen to read MDN from my Apple ][.

What?

This guy needs to lay off the coolaid.

Please save it MDN.

You know he has a point. You could be polite and actually admit that. There is a growing danger here.

This is a retarded argument. The iPhone gives more access to the internet, everywhere. It's not a substitute for a desktop, but adequately fills the role when needed. Never before have you been able to have a full internet browser in your pocket. In case you're listening, Jonathan Zittrain, that gives more access to the internet, not less. And you can still go home and fire up your Apple II to get down and dirty.

"Professor Jonathan Zittrain..." "Professor" is just another word for "woefully out of touch with reality."

May 08, 08 - 03:27 pm Comment from: Ampar

HMCIV:

That was hysterical!

Professor Jonathan Zittrain thinks not being able to tinker with his iPhone "threatens to unravel the decades of innovation that helped to build the Internet."

Then get your fellow professors, who you think are responsible for this innovation, to build you something for you to tinker with.

Some of us see the iPhone as the best evidence of the continuation and acceleration of innovation with respect to the internet.

May 08, 08 - 03:34 pm Comment from: Ampar

Olternaut: "You know he has a point. You could be polite and actually admit that. There is a growing danger here."

Maybe they don't know that.

But PLEASE explain why you think there is a "growing danger". I see the opposite happening especially with the SDK and the potential for collaborative mobile applications.

Yeah, we all know how "productive" those folks are who spend their days "tinkering" with their PC. They're just trying to keep them stable enough to do something useful. The iPhone and iPod Touch are providing a stable platform and the tools to build on that platform. How will that not spark streams of creativity?

The next name should be "Cage" in OS X all the cat's are in the cage.

May 08, 08 - 03:44 pm Comment from: CYxodus

This is your typical computer geek who is crying fowl because more and more people are interested in using the technology instead of tinkering with it. They had to tinker with it back then because either it wasn't well built or it needed to be built by hand. Zittrain...this isn't the 70's, it's the 21st century.

I don't care about opening and tinkering with an iPhone, I rather just use it.

May 08, 08 - 03:47 pm Comment from: CYxodus

At the bottom of this guy's article is this:

Current rating: 1 by 10 users

Look, Oxford may be a great university in many areas, but in the area of the internet, it clearly is a laggard, based upon this nut's nonsensical ramblings.

May 08, 08 - 03:58 pm Comment from: CYxodus

If tinkering equals innovation, then why is Linux not the most popular OS in the world and why does it still look and handle like it came from the late 80's/early 90's.

We need to get back to the good old days of tribal warfare, survival of the fittest, living simply off the land and the flesh of our enemies. Technology has threatened to bring an end to all of that, but I foresee a day (maybe not in my lifetime, but certainly in some of yours) when it will be technology that returns it to us.

In the meantime, I've made a wooden handle to tie my iPhone to when the power goes out and I need the iClub.

The people who mention cars make a good analogy. Cars started out as hobbyist-type things, needing plenty of tinkering and extra care to get them to work. Then, as the technology improved, they grew out of the hobbyist/tinkerer arena into technology people can use without having to think too much about it.

Computers and the internet are following the same path. From starting out needing lots of tinkering and attention, to becoming more user-friendly and self-sufficient - the end result is the same, an information superhighway people can use, rather than having to necessarily tinker with.

There's nothing wrong with tinkering, but in my opinion something that *needs* a lot of tinkering isn't fully mature technology. I don't mind the *option* of tinkering, but it shouldn't be a necessity.

WHAT?!

The iPhone has increased productive and innovations for me. I can check ideas, patents, or companys before it goes into the ether. Sorry, like the calculator- progress speeds forward. New tool and we are the ones in control of the ideas or methods.

GGGggggezzzzzzzz.

May 08, 08 - 04:13 pm Comment from: Ampar

"We need to get back to the good old days of tribal warfare, survival of the fittest, living simply off the land and the flesh of our enemies."

Man, oh man. What kind of scary ass neighborhood did you grow up in?

Is this the same moron who, many years ago, whined and complained about the complexity of modern computers by using an iMac as an example of "complexity"? 4 goldarned connectors was too much for this moron.

Further, these jerkoffs simply don't get it. The iPhone is a tool. The creativity, the floodgates of which are about to open, is in the applications that will be installed on these "sterile" gadgets to get them to do the neato super cool things they are capable of...

I have nothing but contempt for this kind of expert moron whose is so far behind what is happening with technology he thinks he's ahead.

zunetang and zittrain sitting in a tree....

May 08, 08 - 04:33 pm Comment from: CYxodus

@Gabriel...Hobbyist is the perfect word for his kind of thinking. That was the exact word I came up with when I tried out Ubuntu recently.

May 08, 08 - 04:47 pm Comment from: twodales

This is the same dude that thought the Altair 8800 was the pinnacle of personal computing because all you could ever do with it was tinker. It is the software you, asshat, I can't believe that someone gets paid for this crap.

@Ampar

Explain my point? I thought it was pretty clear in the article. First of all I love the iphone SDK and all it has to offer and all that.
BUT.........
The sdk does not totally open up the iphone to all of its features. I don't have time to go through everything but you must know what I mean. Bottomline is that there will be an ongoing need to jailbreak the thing if apps need to get full access to it.
In truth the iphone is really a misnomer and its actually a minuturized mac.....but they named it iphone and treat it as a phone. Tell me....can you play an .mp3 on a iphone without first converting the tile? I don't want to type forever but thats just one example of a closed system. As the future becomes more and more mobile the desktop will become less and less important.....even laptops will become less important.
And if the dominant form of computing becomes closed mobile systems then I think thats going to be a big big problem.
Gawd I hope the mactouch or itablet isn't treated the same way as an iphone.

May 08, 08 - 05:08 pm Comment from: Ampar

"I don't have time to go through everything but you must know what I mean."

And we will probably always disagree on whether or not it's important.

"can you play an .mp3 on a iphone without first converting the tile?"

Never thought about. Never had to think about. Don't care. Don't need to care. It plays my legally purchased downloads and syncs beautifully.

For me, the iPhone is a sophisticated tool that exceeded my expectations. The new apps as a result of the SDK will continue to make it more useful and amazing. I don't tinker as others here have also said. I'm guessing that the vast majority of consumers also are not tinkerers. There's also nothing wrong with wanting to jailbreak your iPhone if you want to add some hack. That's your prerogative. Just don't expect support after that from Apple.

The iPhone does have a few minor annoyances that I'm sure will be fixed with updates as some already have with past updates.

I tinkle while holding my iPhone.

May 08, 08 - 05:47 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

OMG - Is this guy serious?

@NGC598: By the way, have you seen any astronomy software for the iPod Touch yet?

May 08, 08 - 06:00 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

@Olternaut,

Yes of course, any iPod device will play native .mp3 files - next.

May 08, 08 - 06:04 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

@Olternaut,

And technically you don't "full" access to any computer unless you happen to be fluent in raw naked machine code.

"MacDailyNews Take: If Zittrain's so smart, why hasn't he changed his name?"

Actually, his name used to be Smith. But everyone in his family has suffered at some point from severe acne. Growing up, whenever the family would go out together, folks would point and say "hey, check out the zit train". Sadly, it kinda stuck.

"We don't get car improvements because I can tinker with my car."

No, but you do get car improvements because racing teams tinker with cars, sometimes starting with stock models.

"This "theory" overlooks the simple fact that the preponderance of users have little or no interest in tinkering or modifying, and that for those users that do, there are any number of platforms and options available."

You don't need everybody to tinker, just for the tinkerers to be able to create something new and get their stuff out to the sheep on platforms the sheep use. Then of course somebody buys the tinkerer's technology and takes it to the next level. Seems like 99% of this forum are content to be those sheep rather than those who lead innovation.