MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Holy shit the Windoze world is crumbling!
That may be the funniest thing I've read yet - in a year of many funny things.

They're doing nothing that most software vendors aren't doing.

WOW! I don't know what to say... except what an absolutely sissy that guy is... get over it already!

Mar 21, 08 - 02:36 pm Comment from: TowerTone

Windows Update on my Mac just installed a patch/update for their world renown BSOD program.

It is now bluer, and much snappier.....

So Apple are finally getting assertive in their marketing?
Thats a good thing.

I agree with the article for the most part. It does seem kind of dodgy.

How is this dodgy?
You CLEARLY have a choice.
You can even turn off Software Update.
Register and post your comments on the blog - this is pure FUD.

Sounds to me like Apple is now beating them at their own game and they don't like it.

Freak'n cry baby, how do you like them apples?

For a CEO someone need to Grow up or Go home...

Mar 21, 08 - 02:47 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Well, the first thing he needs to do is go and lie down in a dark room and get a grip.

And the second thing he needs to do is try and download Acrobat on Windows without having the Google Toolbar installed - it's been a default option for somewhile if I recall correctly.

I know that the simple things in life are becoming increasingly difficult for some people, but this is simple reading and comprehension on a freakin' dialog box: if you want it, keep it checked. If you don't, uncheck it. It really is that simple.

Of course, we are talking about people who continue to purchase Windows despite all the negative press over the years so maybe the whole reading comprehension thing is a bit of problem…

Mar 21, 08 - 03:00 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

I don't think this is a problem. Safari is a tool in the arsenal of the average Internet combatant these days, as is Firefox. Firefox is standard on every Mac I configure for people now. Firefox is out there in the consciousness of the average computer users. People who would be hard pressed to identify the computer in a room full of toasters know about Firefox.

I have discussed what a joy the Firefox beta is with lots of folks.

Mar 21, 08 - 03:04 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

Interesting observation: When I ran the Apple Software Updater on my PC Laptop this morning, the fact that the Safari text was there made me think, "Hmmm. Bout time I upgraded Firefox as well."

LMAO!!!!!

How DARE Apple offer the option to install software like 90% of all other vendors! The audacity! And the temerity of actually assuming folks would want this update by PRE-CHECKING the install box. Ooooooh, so tricky! Like EVERYONE doesn't already do this! Oh, wait a minute, everyone already DOES do this...

Never mind.

Does anyone use Camino?

Mar 21, 08 - 03:15 pm Comment from: Spudly

Look everyone! It's quite simple...Apple is just adhering to the Human Interface Guidelines that Microsoft dictates for the Windows OS. This is seems shocking to a Mac user... Under Windows it's common practice and actually encouraged!

This is NOT bordering on malicious malware distribution practices. First, the user is FULLY INFORMED that Safari is new software that will be installed on their PCs. Malware doesn't alert you with a nice box, saying "You're about to install a spyware program which will send me your bank account info." and giving you the option to uncheck a box to not install it.

Apple provides WAY more information about updates for users than Windows does anyway.

Mar 21, 08 - 03:24 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

@No way!

I use Camino. I love Camino. It's very fast, and until I tried the beta of Firefox 3, I would have said *the fastest* browser on OS X. When I set up computers, I often add Camino as well. The web is so goofy these days, I find the more browsers you have the more likely you are to find one that might work on a problematic website. Sadly, there's a ton of people out there still building websites as if Internet Explorer were the only game in town. I get sick of people complaining as if it is a problem with the Mac and not a problem with the site developers.

Yeah right, people who don't pay attention, probably will install Safari inadvertently, but people who don't pay attention will get hit by a truck also, should we put stop signs every 10 feet so no one inadvertently gets hurt? How about people use that hatrack they
have sitting on their shoulders for a change?

Mar 21, 08 - 03:25 pm Comment from: Willie G

@ MDN

While, fundamentally, I understand your single objection over this whole thing; I think that you are needlessly obsessing over semantics.

First of all, as has been evidenced time and again, people never bother to actually read anything. Of the handful who actually do, most of those can't sufficiently comprehend what they are seeing. The select few that remain who can and do both read and understand things will have no issue deselecting installs that they don't want and or need.

The rest of the yuks out there may end up installing Safari without paying attention, but why is that a big deal? It isn't malicious, and if they don't want to use it, they don't have to. At the same time, many of these same people might discover a truly elegant piece of software they otherwise may have been forever ignorant of if the check box was off by default.

Finally, It should be pointed out that Apple's Software Update does the same thing on OSX, and you don't hear anyone pitching a bitch over that.

Mar 21, 08 - 03:25 pm Comment from: HotinPlaya

"There also ought to be a big permanent link to the "Move to Mac" and related videos right in the middle of iTunes' home page. It's pedal to the metal time now. Let's go!"

I agree with this take 100% !

People have such a double standard when it comes to Apple. I installed Windows XP SP2 on my laptop and right off the bat Windows Update asked me if I wanted to install IE 7. Where is the outrage about that? Why is it so much more offensive when Apple's software update asks you if you want to install Safari?

Sometimes I do updates and install software WITHOUT anyone telling me to, or without the Software Update program asking me to.

Living on the edge...

I would see a problem with it if Apple was FORCING people to download Safari. Instead, they are simply advertising, using their installer, which, I believe many folks do with their software packages.

Somebody needs to call the Waaambulance for Mr. Lilly. We got an emergency here.

Just my $0.02

Mar 21, 08 - 03:29 pm Comment from: TowerTone

Yes! My uncle has an El Camino with a whip antennae and curb feelers. He dropped a Craig 8-Track system in that bad boy along with a brass headboard opposite the rear window from his gunrack.

With the spotlights on the roof and ample room in the back, it is the perfect deer AND chick 'Huntin' Mobile'.

And with the nitro, we can surf the turf from fire to foxes without a hitch, which it also has....

Microsoft does the same thing to me trying to get my to install Genuine Advantage on my windows partition. I just say no

Mar 21, 08 - 03:32 pm Comment from: stormy

Stating "update" for the Safari download and installation is misleading to the normal user. They will think its an update to a program they already have and now needs to be updated.

If M$ was doing this would it be acceptable....

Mar 21, 08 - 03:36 pm Comment from: Ampersand

Repent your weasel words!

Apple just shot its marketing cred clean off in one foul move. They have joined the Borg! Redmond must be cheering at this.

And you guys defending this orchestrated slur on the virtue of Apple by some misguided ex-MS marketing minion of Steve's is pure evil. Look at yourself in the mirror and get real.

Apple needs to pull up before the death dive towards two-faced mediocrity becomes fatal.

Think this was funny, just wait till Windoze users see the following iTunes software update notice:

OS Upgrade - this upgrade replaces Windows XP or Vista with OS X version 10.5.2. Click on accept to install OS X and charge your credit card for $99. Your pain and suffering will soon be over.

Mar 21, 08 - 03:40 pm Comment from: The Other Steve

Windows users need to START READING WHAT THEY ARE CLICKING OKAY ON!

Especially if they are using a virus prone OS!

Mar 21, 08 - 03:40 pm Comment from: treestman

The application is called "Apple Software Update". Please note that last word. Changing the blurb text to use the word "install" would be the weasel approach, and wouldn't change the issue: that an ostensible updater is actually installing new software.

Apple's updater should identify updates only. I think Apple is wrong on this one:

Apple to Windows Users: Run One, Run All!

First, installing new software and calling it an update is poor form.

Second, it's perfectly fine for Apple to offer Safari, but it shouldn't be the default option. Although people have a choice to uncheck the box, the reality is that most people select the default options by...uh...well, by default.

Apple should endeavor to be a class organization. I am certainly not going to lower my standards and endorse actions that are less than forthright just because I'm a huge Apple supporter. On the contrary. I am a huge Apple supporter because Apple has been a class organization.

I agree with MDN, that that the box should not be checked, and that it should clearly state that it is an install option, not an update.
Perhaps there should be a few options listed in the updater, perhaps in a separate box, such as a Quicktime with a demo of OSX. But, of course, that would force MS to have an update to break all Mac installs.

I'm going to have to go AGAINST the tide a bit on this one, folks.

At work, we are *not* allowed to install iTunes on our PC's. Period. Its just one of many examples of freeware that's an IT Policy no-no, and regardless of how stupid we might think the policy is, there's no fighting city hall.

We are, however, allowed to install Quicktime, as we can go out and *buy* the Pro version.

But guess what Quicktime does every time there's an update and the Apple Software Update runs?

Yup - - take a look at the picture at the top: IT TRIES TO INSTALL ITUNES TOO.

If I were to hit "Okay", as soon as its done, I have to go and un-install iTunes in order to remain in compliance with our local IT policies...and pray that they don't scan my machine during the reboot, or that I forget to do this.

Thus, I quit the Apple Software Updater and then go manually to the Apple website to find & download the latest .dot revision of Quicktime and run its installer.

Gosh, a whole hell of a lot of good it does for me to have that Apple Software Updater.

This little circle-jerk has been so irritating that I've just gone and DELETED the Apple Software Updater from my Windows PC. We're not allowed to have Opera or Firefox either, so I'm sure that they'll nix Safari as well, and I'd just assume not take the risk of getting a disciplined from my boss for "unauthorized software".

I don't mind Apple using ASU as a tool to promote their other free products, but with iTunes & Quicktime appearing as a bundle that can't be split, it has just been a liability, not an asset.


-hh

Demasiado malo ninguno de los idiotas que me broma.

He tratado Camino también pero no me gusta la interfaz de usuario. Me gusta que los plugins que se obtiene con Firefox. Pero realmente me gusta usar Safari en Windows porque me odio Steve Ballmer y Bill Gates.

Por cierto, Camino en español significa "way".

You, like apple, are scumbags with a distorted view of reality and what users want.

Sorry boys, you're missing on this one. I didn't like them slipping in the Apple SW update program to begin with and I'm not all that surprised by this 'update'.

I like to pick and choose what gets loaded on my pc and being forced to take the extra time to find and 'deselect options' does not give me a warm fuzzy and that's what makes Apple look bad in this case. Apple should equal 'ease of use' not 'guess what I'm loading now!'

Mar 21, 08 - 04:19 pm Comment from: jjjj

Maybe Mozilla should make a Media Player to go along with Firefox and Thunderbird. Sheesh.

Adobe does the same thing on Windows with the $%@$ Flash Player installer (which also installs the @#%@$ Google Toolbar). It's opt-out basically. I know because just yesterday I accidentally installed it (against corporate IT policy, I might add) and had to manually uninstall it. Yes, I have to use Windows, too.

Where's the outcry against Adobe and Google? Oh, I know - because Adobe isn't kicking everybody else's ass at anything.

Mar 21, 08 - 04:30 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

In my mind, I imagined that there was a version of OS X that would run on any PC. This is, of course, preposterous.

Then I imagined all those millions of iTunes users updating their software, only to find the Safari was installed as well. This would seem, to some, rather trivial.

Then I postulated a third box, pre-checked, that would show up on the next version of iTunes.

One that innocently read "OS X".

This is, of course, ridiculous.

Then I imagined millions of people, rebooting their computers, and millions of copies of Windows vanishing in a puff of 1's and 0's.

This is, of course, impossible.

But it was such a lovely dream.

Oh, for pity's sake.... just because the browser is installed on the machine, doesn't automatically set it as default browser or make the user start using it in place of their existing browser. I highly doubt that the Mozilla CEO is as concerned about that as much as he is the unsavory practice of pushing out software that the user did not specifically ask for.

That box should not have been checked. In fact, it shouldn't even show up in Apple Software Updates because it's not an update unless it's already installed on the machine. I use a Mac, consider myself an Apple fan, but I'm not blind to savvy marketing schemes like this. Let Safari grow market share the way god intended... it's a good browser, but it's still rough around the edges. Improve it and they will come. For right now it's just a toy (on Windows) and is in need of refinement.

Mar 21, 08 - 04:53 pm Comment from: ron

Just put a Mozilla update in mTunes Mr. Lilly, CEO.

Is it just me, or is Mozilla sounding more and more whiny when it comes to Apple these days?

Mar 21, 08 - 05:09 pm Comment from: Yimmie

I bemoan applications that have crappy interfaces.

I think the Mozilla guy is overreacting. Yeah, Apple is trying to get more Windows users to try Safari, but it's giving them a choice. It's not like it's installing Safari without their permission.

Personally though I like Firefox more than Safari, because of the massive wealth of plugins available.

While I'm sure I agree with the box being checked by default, I have no issue with Apple offering it to me. Had it been Microsoft, they would have simply stated that Safari was now a requirement of iTunes.

Also, I think MacDailyNews is wrong to assume that Mozilla is the one with the most at stake. Internet Explorer still has the largest browser market share, so Microsoft has the most to lose.

I still question whether this tactic will get more people to use Safari. Internet explorer sucks ass, but the majority of people still use it. If someone installs Safari accidentally when they install iTunes there's a possibility it'll just be ignored and sit unused.

Re: Camino

I have Camino 1.0.4 on my Mac (10.5.2 Leopard), which works fine. I've tried to use Camino 1.5.5, but it has a big problem. When I launch it, the first site I go to loads fine. But when I choose another site Camino simply refuses to load the page. So, I cannot use what simply does not work. I'll stick with 1.0.4 until it no longer is compatible with an OS X release.

I find this practice unsavory, but only mildly so. The real story to me is the blind devotion and uncritical rationalizations some Mac users are making in defense of this corporation. It's just a company, people. You don't need to defend everything they do.

there's a bunch of PC trolls on reddit bitching about this but defending Microsoft's use of Windows Update to push IE 7:
http://reddit.com/info/6cy26/comments/

You know what to do

Oh no!! Apple is offering me free, quality software! Those jerks!!!