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Goodness. we shouldn't be surprised though - journalistic integrity is just a series of words to these guys as soon as MS is involved. I pity the poor sucker's who'll read it but not understand they are full of it and then go and sprout the tripe to everyone around them. Sad, Very Very sad.

I am still amazed at the power of cash and cocaine

Hey wired "blow me"

Dec 11, 07 - 12:13 am Comment from: MaLvado

Don't click! Even for the voting!

Disgusting!

Cripes! MDN, give it a rest! Could it possibly be that some other devices in the world have some decent features and make an interesting and worthy alternative to Apple? Heaven forbid... I think the strident and ridiculous fanboy-speak tossed around this site may be one sign of the apocalypse (the eventual fall of Apple).

Get some perspective, please!

Dec 11, 07 - 12:22 am Comment from: Charless

Did you notice that they are taking votes and iPods are currently running behind.

Expect the Zune desperately seeking squirt partner so called journalist to kick up the FUD another notch up their buttcracks. One year has passed and the updated Zune is just the same piece of hardware crap with updated software. Folks the hardware is basically the same crap. Low RES stretched screen and wired wireless! LOL so sad.

"Cripes! MDN, give it a rest! Could it possibly be that some other devices in the world have some decent features and make an interesting and worthy alternative to Apple?"

Some other, yes. Zune, no.

Give what a rest? MDN is all about edgy Mac fanboyism and some of us like it that way.

Dec 11, 07 - 12:34 am Comment from: Road Warrior

One should not expect a gloating Zune Thang response. He is busy voting at the Wired website.

hey poochy . . . what are YOU doing on this site?

-Could it possibly be that some other devices in the world have some decent features and make an interesting and worthy alternative to Apple?-

Yes, very often, but not that Zune 80 thing . . . nothing at all interesting there. I mean I'm glad they are trying and all I guess, but it's a little embarrassing don't you think? I would LOVE to see Apple get some REAL competition . . . you know something that forces them to keep up the pace . . . put VOIP on the iPhone and all the rest . . . but Microsoft is the NFL playing a High School team, and getting beaten so badly that Apple doesn't really even have to play with the first string.

Dude . . . troll elsewhere. We all think it's funny when MDN writers go off a bit . . . but hey . . . the Wired writers started it.

Dec 11, 07 - 12:48 am Comment from: Journo

"Ferment and Dumbass"

Priceless.

you limey queer. have fun squirting.

Dec 11, 07 - 01:01 am Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

Why bother discussing articles like this. Apple will have a record quarter with a record number of iPod sales. Fret not, there is no way these two fsckheads know what they are talking about.

Dec 11, 07 - 01:01 am Comment from: Big Al

Zune 2.0 is better than Zune 1.0

How could it be worse?

The Zune 80 is not better than the new 80 GB iPod classic. The Squircle is functional but it is no click wheel. The wireless sync is a gimmic just like FM is a gimmic. Feature load sells in the PC world.

Microsoft can't touch iTunes or the iTMS.

The only way Microsoft's Zune could win this shootout is if money changed hands. Just like in the Car magazines when a domestic shitwagon beats out the best from Germany and Japan in a shootout.

Follow the money.

Can "quirky" and "elegant" even occur at the same time in our known universe? Am I simply out of touch?

Dec 11, 07 - 01:16 am Comment from: Cubert

The quality of journalism just keeps getting worse.

Dec 11, 07 - 01:18 am Comment from: Micro Me

A fermented dumbass dropping a Zune into a squircle.

The mind boggles. Or was it the bowels?

It's worth the click to vote. Can't believe even Wired readers would pick the Zune 2 over the iPod!!

Ah yes. Wired is prescient.
The Zune is the gift to give this year
At least Amazon lists it as one of their top sellers .... in position #5 after the other 4 top sellers ... 4 iPods including the 80 Gb classic

"Zune's automatic wireless syncing requires that the thing be PLUGGED IN for power. Only Microsoft could come up with 'wireless' that requires the device to be wired."

I agree with everything except for this one.

Wireless Syncing is actually about the only cool thing about Zune. You come home at night and plug in your Zune. Then you grab your laptop and use it wherever is convenient. Download music in the bedroom, living room, back patio, wherever. Your music will be synced with your Zune next time you walk out the door.

You can also sync the Zune without it being plugged in, but it won't happen automatically (ie, you have to explicitly tell the Zune to sync.)

The disadvantage, of course, is that USB2 is about eight times faster than 802.11g. So Syncing can be quite a bit slower, which could be a problem if you download a bunch of things and then shutdown your computer.

i wish i could say 'boycott Wired' but it's so 'tired' i've not read that rag in years.......

As always, I love the MDN take. Please keep the real voice coming; no other site makes me laugh as much as MDN, or points out the lies that circulate elsewhere. Nice to read, too, the MDN reminder that many of us got an iPod in the first place because we didn't want to listen to FM. If people are going to knock the iPod for lacking features, make them significant. Like, the iPod is missing a Saturn rocket launch feature. Man - someone go to RadioShack and buy the FM whiners one of those pens with a built in radio tuner. . .

Dec 11, 07 - 02:20 am Comment from: TowerTone

I had fun with this a few hours ago. But now I am thinking, I thought the comedian writers were supposed to be on strike?....

Dec 11, 07 - 02:25 am Comment from: TowerTone

"Man - someone go to RadioShack and buy the FM whiners one of those pens with a built in radio tuner. . ."

That sounds like the write way to enjoy music........

Dec 11, 07 - 02:28 am Comment from: UltraVisitor

Roughly Drafted had a great article comparing the Zune to the iPod.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/03/winter-2007-buyers-guide-microsoft-zune-8-vs-ipod-nano/

I recommend reading this, especially if you have never seen the new Zune store. It is mind boggling how poorly designed it is, and how pathetic everything about the Zune really is.

Dec 11, 07 - 02:36 am Comment from: Lilochris

Maybe thats why Danny's last name describes himself very well.
Dumbass. Like the commercial on TV years back about this boss named Dumas when his employee at a presention & kept calling his boss Dumbass instead.

What a dumbass decision.

Dec 11, 07 - 02:45 am Comment from: Dialtone

Did anyone else notice that the "voting" counter increments up every time you click on it? So one ZuneTang™ could just sit there and click to high heaven. I only know this because I accidentally voted twice for the iPod.

Right, so what they're trying to tell us, is that because the Zune has been overhauled and that it is "wireless" that the Zune is better...

Ahahahahaha... So ridiculas it's funny. Tell me, why do you need to be wireless, when you have it attached to the computer, to change things on the computer. You HAVE to be at your computer if you want to download songs or whatever anyway. The only other reason you'd have it plugged in is to charge it... What's that? Zune "wirelessly" charges? I didn't think so. Fat good that ends up to be.

As for FM radio, it's a tiny percentage of people that would use it, I mean why wait for a song to come on when you can pick it?

As for sharing music, well we all know Apple will never introduce it as it allows people to illegally distribute their music with friends (and the music industry blames Apple for it's downfall... How about you record companies look at Microsoft...)

The Zune is ugly (who honestly decides to make a music player poo brown?) It's battery hungry, more expensive, less intuitive and is from Microsoft. Tell what's to love about it again? I forgot...

FM Radio ??? I have never understood this one. Why.. tell me, would I need FM radio, when I can have around 20,000 songs that ***I CHOSE*** ? These aren`t songs that someone chose for me. These are 20,000 songs that I supposedly like. How many DAYS of listening is that ? Why, oh why would I need a radio ?I guess if you are into talk radio.........

Too bad Apple did not invent the click wheel/scroll wheel as MDN tries to report.

Good take otherwise.

Your Zune doesn't need to be plugged into anything to sync.
The Zune's Screen is 6x the density of a normal screen.
The iPod's is 6.5x.
There will be no pixellation on either one, but thanks for your credibility.
a "squircle" is a mathematical equation for a form fitting shape. pick up a book, not your iPod for once.
I have both iPod and Zune. the battery life is less than an hour's difference with videos. i give up an hour of battery for a viewable screen, and from my testing, while playing music the zune and iPod are head to head, taking turns winning that battle (can never get the decibels quite even)
"Pay needlessly"? last time i checked (when i bought mine) they were the same price. but its ok. i dont mind having the extra features for free instead of paying for them.
I will never buy another iPod until they go back to last generation's look. the classic looks ugly as sin.
I would much rather have gone with an iPod (not because of the iTunes movies or tv shows. who the hell buys those when you can buy a physical copy of the seasons for the same price) but because i can hook it up to my car stereo with ease, i have thousands of accessory options and larger file type associations. but lets face it. the iPod classic looks pretty ugly.

i go to this site for the sole purpose of keeping up with my mac and news for it, but i found this article interesting. I'm sick of the attacks for having a specific mp3 player. i own many apple products, so back off. i think wired is right. but if they compared the Zune to the last generation iPod. i definitely wouldnt think twice about going with ipod

Dec 11, 07 - 03:17 am Comment from: Grigori

I saw this on Wired's site and knew MDN would have a field day with it, but WOW... you've really outdone yourselves this time.

At least they've improved the damn thing, unlike the hatchet job they did on their operating system. Still, I see no compelling reason to switch if you're already utilizing the iPod/iTunes approach.

I just don't GET this "Social" thing... is that supposed to be like a "mixer" or "meet 'n' greet"? Where's Gladhand? I was always too much of a loner to care back in high school, and I sure as hell don't care now...

Journalistic integrity?

HAVE YOU NOT HEARD OF CHOICE???

STFU and die like a Mac user.

I'm always boggled by the fact that windoze uzers visit mac sites ! Are they here for a rest from the hassles of windoze ? I don't think I have ever been to or felt the need to visit a pc centric site.

Dec 11, 07 - 05:12 am Comment from: Brit

"Gift of the season", eh? I hope they include the receipt (is that what you call it in the US?) in the package, so little Jimmy can take it back and swap it for an iPod (after he has dried his tears).

Seasons greetings from a Zune-less UK!

Reading between the lines, it sounds like the new Zune is something of a match for the smaller iPod Classic (if not quite as good all-round and synching with relatively crappy software and a second-rate store).

Maybe that's why Wired chose this particular comparison. Maybe they are diverting attention ... because it seems to me that the gap is far wider elsewhere in the range. I think the player people are going to want is the new iPod Nano. Really, 8GB or 4GB is enough for most people, and you get the benefit of a smaller package and flash memory. Hard drives, when it comes down to it, are a bit delicate for portable use.

And, sure enough, my guess was right. I just checked and what it Amazon's top seller among iPods? It's the Nano - and the smaller one of the two at that:

http://www.amazon.com/iPod-Computers/b?ie=UTF8&node=13660271

What happened is this. MS copied the old Nano, and in the meantime, Apple replaced the old Nano with a new version that has video at a stroke rendering the MS flash-based player obsolete even at its inception.

I suspect Wired would rather people didn't notice that.

Dec 11, 07 - 06:32 am Comment from: ken1w

On top of the review silliness, isn't the Zune 80 the model Microsoft made so few of that it was actually "sold out"? So in addition to it being a sad copy of yesterday's iPod, it is also realistically not available. This is a good thing for consumers, since those who are actually fooled into thinking the Zune 80 is better will have to "settle" for an iPod classic instead.

Dec 11, 07 - 07:48 am Comment from: R

"Squircle." I almost spit out my coffee. Thanks, MDN for a funny start to the day.

Yep - same time every month - the MS checks go out to the various underpaid "journalists". Expect more. Wonder what the monthly MS bill is for "reviewers"?

sorry guys just read some of the posts...poochy stfu you moron...

Dec 11, 07 - 08:36 am Comment from: Shogun

Who was saying they want the Classic to go back to last generation's look? I was just checking the Classic out on the Apple site... looks the same as last generation to me. And actually it's a bit thinner, which I would think would be a plus.

Journalists = Tards

If the Zune worked with iTunes i'd probably choose it over an iPod Classic. Right now i've got an iPod Touch and nothing i've seen comes close to that, it's amazing. But the Classic is slow, buggy and really starting to show it's age.

I'm actually hoping for someone to give Apple some competition, because no monopoly is never good. People gotta realize that.

Dec 11, 07 - 09:52 am Comment from: British Mac Head

My 5.5g iPod is better than the Zune 80gig.

Oh yeah. What's a limey?

American loves to vote for the underdog.

Once a PC rag (magazine) always a PC rag!

Dec 11, 07 - 10:02 am Comment from: eaDGbe

I find the "it also has an FM radio" mindset so fascinating and telling! Apple's product designers consistently have looked beyond this mindset and rendered it obsolete.

Macs and iPods, iTunes including internet radio streaming and podcasts, Apple TV, Garageband, iPhoto, iWeb, etc. all facilitate user-generated, user-chosen and user-time shifted, free or fair use, commercial-free creative content.

FM radio, broadcast TV, the music and movie industries all deliver industry-generated, industry-chosen and industry-time-scheduled, restricted use, commercial-laden creative content.

We live in such interesting times. The Blockbuster Hit passes away. Long live Creative Content.

Can't resist...

Danny Dumbass

Although I can't stand MS, the iPod classic really hasn't had an update since 2005 or so, and is a little long in the tooth. And Apple is apparently favoring flash-based models, which is where they are innovating the most. I'm not saying HD-based players don't have any value (I have a 60 GB gen 5.5), but I feel comparing the new Zune to the iPod classic is not really of interest b/c Apple has moved on.

(Now watch Apple come out with some amazing HD-based player at Mac World. I doubt it, but you never know.)

What is the point of making fun of the names of the reviewers? To show how immature the writers of MacDailyNews are? You guys sound like a bunch of Jr. High kids!! Grow up!

MacDailyNews is rapidly losing whatever credibility it has left. Name calling and making fun of people's names is a HUGE insult. And it says a lot more negative things about the writers of MacDailyNews that it does the reviewers you disagree with.