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Chairs--------------h--h

Why do I get the feeling that Apple will eventually release all of their software on Windows, eventually shipping Mac OS X in a shrink wrapped box for all Intel processors. I just keep getting that. I also have a feeling it will happen sooner rather than later if the iPhone is extremely successful.

Safari is also the world's least compatible browser, least compatible with the Windows look-and-feel and the most likely to crash. Other than that, it's great!

At the D Conference, Jobs mentioned the following things.

1. Post PC devices are becoming the happening places
2. Desktop is still relevant But not from the OS point of view. But from the interactive/thick client apps that are couple with online services like iTunes and iTunes Store. Hence the OS is irrelevant.

so, Apple is focusing on the Post PC devices( iPod, IPhone ) and the " interactive thick client Applications that connect 'Online services, Post PC devices".

Great strategy!!

Reality Check is the world's least effective troll/astroturfer. Other than that, he's great!

What we wanted was reality cash.
Your bogus checks are not accepted here.

Oh yes, and . . . Death to Windows!

I want to see something like Google Gears for Safari.

Google Gears ( on an equivalent from Apple) on Safari( Windows, OS X, iPhone)

This will provide an offline storage for web2.0 apps and will truly make Safari a new platform. ( windows will become irrelevant)

The windows look and feel is horrible so Apple should make their products look like crap? If you want to talk about not being compatible with standards perhaps you should give IE a look. I've got a great book on css and almost every section in the book talks about how IE isn't compatible with web standards. So, much for your argument but thanks for playing. Damn, now I fed a troll.

@reality check:

When IE can pass the ACID test, then let's talk about compatibility.

Safari is also the world's least compatible browser, least compatible with the Windows look-and-feel and the most likely to crash.

What part of B E TA did you miss?

Safari is the most industry standard compliant browser on the market. If isn't compatible with some sites, it is because they are written to non-industry standard MSFT "standards".

INDUSTRY standards are better than proprietary (MSFT) standards.

I wonder how many of those downloads are Mac users trying it out in Boot Camp or Parallels, or are installing it on their work computer. As opposed to actual Windows users...

It's compatible with standards, so if you build site for only IE, then don't blame Safari for not rendering it right.

So even if most of them are Mac users, that's how hype is built and it spreads to other Windows users. Like they say "Charity begins at home". Mac users will also buy the iPhone and show it to none mac users that will go "Wow" and buy theirs. The iPod started that way. Remember it was only for mac users to begin with.

I use it for Parallels with XP at work. I am a bit pissed off that Safari for the windows world is faster than Safari for OS X. Even via Parallels. Also, it has yet to crash on me in Windows.

As if 1 million downloads in 48 hours doesn't say enough. You just let me know if there is a better browser for Windows.

I tried to cash a Reality Check once.. it bounced!

Then I looked more closely at it, and it was in pesos.

:(

Apple's support of open standards-- if successful on a large scale-- will ultimately make M$'s proprietary approach a thing of the past. Usability will matter most, not file types. In that case, I agree with AP's post above-- at some point, Mac OS could be released for everyone. That said, though, I believe it will take a VERY long time to come to that. The current surge in personal tech means Apple could very well place a copy of OS X is hundreds of millions of hands. If that happens, it's a short step to release OS X for everyone.

More likely, though-- if Apple gets that big in hand held devices, the OS Tipping Point® will have also become a reality.

I'm not so impressed if this 1,000,000 Safari for Windows downloads is mostly Mac users who also use Windows.

- - But at least its a start.

Oh, and by the way @AP, anything that gets rid of Windows is generally ok with me, so I see OS X for all Intel and PPC generally a good thing.

Complacency...it's hard to get up from a druken stupor.

(MDN word...."front". Embarrassment in front of the whole world.)

I think that it is feasible for Apple, if they can make enough money on Consumer Electronics (iPod/iPhone) that they can then license OS X to other CPU manufacterers without having to worry about killing their hardware sales/profit. On the other hand, I think a lot of the gains in Mac sales can be attributed to the "halo" effect from the iPod/iTunes experience. If the same "halo" effect comes from the iPhone, why bother licensing OS X when they can sell that many more Macs and keep the profits on the hardware as well? It's good to be in the drivers' seat!

i think balmer and gates just shit bricks....when they heard about safari for windows. complacency....can do wonders for the other side.

Mr. Peabody says "I'm not so impressed if this 1,000,000 Safari for Windows downloads is mostly Mac users who also use Windows.- - But at least its a start."

Yeah, I'm not impressed that Mac sales are up 36% over last year, if it's due to Windows users buying Macs for themselves!

ballmer´s brain is going to crash!!!

That over only two days a million people were prepared to download beta software is startling.

I bet MS is worried. The noses of some Firefox users--some of them really do tend towards fanaticism over that damn browser--seem to have been put out of joint, too. The folks at Lifehacker, who seem to fall into that category, are mumbling about extensions--what else? It's all they've got to say. They've posted a slew of extensions that they say will add functionality Safari has that Firefox lacks.

I mean, I'm a happy user of Firefox on Windows (though it sucks on the Mac) but extensions are not the answer to everything as the fanboys seem to think. I'm not all that happy with the notion of loading a browser up with third-party bolt-ons whose coding may be of indifferent quality, and which may, and quite frequently do, break when the application is updated. (The damn things are kludges written in web languages--XML/CSS/JavaScript--anyway.)

And it's not just that Firefox lacks this or that. It's slower than Safari, and the usability is not so good. Moreover, its text-handling is poor. You can't fix that with an extension.

Postcript isn't rendered at all.

With TrueType there's "miscalculation of space required for italic, bold & underlined fonts resulting in overlappping text".

http://clagnut.com/blog/1854/

It can't handle hyphenation properly.

It also makes a pig's ear of Microsoft's flashy new OpenType fonts in Office 2007. If you've got those fonts onboard take a look at a page that uses them in Firefox:

http://poynter.org/column.asp?id=47&aid=78683


Mozilla's new graphics engine, called Cairo, is far better, but that won't come along until Firefox 3.

Safari is still beta software on Windows, but it already looks promising. It will shake things up a bit all round for sure.

@ AP...

I don't understand why people STILL think that Apple is going to release OSX for any Intel-Box to use. Apple is first and foremost a HARDWARE company.

Let me ask you, what do you think Apple makes more money on...
a.) Selling a $129 copy of OSX
b.) Selling a Mac Book, Mac Book Pro, iMac, or Mac Pro
c.) Selling a piece of media from the iTunes Store
d.) Selling an iPod
e.) both A & C
f.) both B & D

If you picked anything other than B, D, or F, then you need to go back to school. Apple would never make the choice to intentionally cripple themselves. If this ever DOES happen, it will be after Jobs in the cold, cold ground.

"eventually shipping Mac OS X in a shrink wrapped box for all Intel processors. "

Close, the plan is to get all the apps over to Vista then discontinue OS X.

beaucoup d'orchidée

Keep the ice water coming......we're very thirsty down here.

Bogus...OS X is not coming to any Windows boxes via Apple.
Safari coming to WinSin means that all of us will get better browsers, no matter which one we use. The competition is on. I now expect Firefox to raise their feature bar.
Whether via Parallels, Boot Camp, or from a beige reality check sin box, A million downloads of a beta Safari in two days is huge. Apple really has their seeds planted in everyone...where
a few years back, they were just ignored.

@ Stefano Jobso
well said.
i was thinking the same thing.

those geeks at lifehacker always bug the crap out of me the "firefox rulez" thing.

Firefox user: "Firefox is better because it has extensions..."
other Browser user: "...and?"
Firefox user: "...erm its got erm.....did i mention extensions?"

Boo-Yeah, i like my Internet Browsers slow, ugly and plugin-laden.
My Firefox on the mac has 4 plugins that i miss on this browser, and it takes about 20 seconds until it launches.
Some Browser...

least compatible with the Windows look-and-feel
Anything that makes Windows look more like OS X can only help!

Why do I get the feeling that Apple will eventually release all of their software on Windows

Won't happen. iLife in particular is a Mac-only crown jewel.

As for other titles/packages hitting Windows, it's all a matter of time and timing. If Windows continues it's current trajectory Apple won't have to release any further teaserware for it. Why deploy to a dying platform?

If it's any indication, one of my colleagues is an avowed PC user. He made a point to tell me how much he loved Vista (after spending 2 days installing it!) He downloaded Safari for Windows yesterday and LOVES it! I think SJ's strategy might work.

Interesting, this is cool, nearly made my day.

ipod battery
http://www.mp4-converter.net/dvd-to-mp4/

"Why deploy to a dying platform?"

Dying, yes in a few small months there are more Vista machines out there than the entire number of Macs in use anywhere.

Steve knows where the future is and is working to make Apple products and software compatible with it. There's a reason they removed "Computer" from the name.

"Why deploy to a dying platform?"

Safari is the platform.

Dying, yes in a few small months there are more Vista machines out there than the entire number of Macs in use anywhere.

You sound like General Motors circa 1964. The good days are over & long-term decline awaits, a real shame the market leader is too self-blinded and arrogant to see it coming.

As for Vista, I don't care if MS's smoke-and-magic shows it outselling Mac. What you need to look at is long-term market share growth. Where do you think Mac's gains are coming from, Linux??

When you're losing market share you are indeed dying. So where does that leave Windows again?

APPLE MADE WAY FOR SAFARI BY REMOVING THE ITUNES + QUICKTIME OPTION. THE DOWNLOAD HAS QUICKTIME, BUT YOU DON'T GET TO CHOSE IF YOU WANT IT OR NOT. THAT WAY IN THE FUTURE YOU WILL GET ITUNES + SAFARI AS THE OPTION

Seems like the trolls are out in force! They MUST be worried!

Safari is also the world's least compatible browser, least compatible with the Windows look-and-feel and the most likely to crash. Other than that, it's great!

-----

Rubbish.

I use safari all the time and it never crashes.

If it does on windows, then it down to the shitty OS programming from Microsoft - not Apple's coding of Safari.

least compatible with the Windows look-and-feel
-

MS has been trying to nail the Apple look and feel for about 20 years now, trust me, they DON'T MIND.

When you're losing market share you are indeed dying. So where does that leave Windows again?
--

Being this delusional and having this much of a black and white view of the world is actually symptomatic of something called Borderline Syndrome (read: you're fuckin crazy).

Congratulations you can get meds!

@Willie G

Right on, dude! It only requires a smidgen of sense to realize that the secret of Apple's sauce is that they make BOTH the hardware and the software. Only someone obtuse or clueless would suggest that Apple can make OS X better by releasing a generic Intel on generic hardware.

Please - the Mac "just works" because Apple controls 100% of the hardware and the software.

The iPod "just works" because Apple controls 100% of the hardware and the software.

The iPhone will "just work" because Apple blah blah blah.

To suggest that Apple would "benefit" by somehow divorcing the software from the hardware is just plain senseless....someone please shoot this dead dog that keeps trying to rear its undead head. Apple is successful because it is NOT Microsoft and trying to be like Microsoft will be the end of Apple.

As for Safari for Windows, it is an attempt to reduce the influence of Windows and IE, not because Apple is "migrating" to Windows, duh. With many, many more Safari users out there, the days of IE-only websites are numbered, and that means the Mac experience gets even BETTER.

Everything Apple does is about making life better for Mac/iPod/iPhone users, not to fulfill the wet dreams of fanboys still living in the 80s wishing Apple to become a giant symbol of mediocrity. OS X for Dells and HPs...dumb dumb dumb.

I've seen where Apple has created a California version of Steve Ballmer ..they call it Phil Shiller. Phil is stable, can be interviewed, hold his tongue and smile without looking demented. Soon, Phil will be assigned to walk the Redmond Campus ...he'll be admired. When Phil has attracted his legion of festers, I mean followers, he will begin his march to the sea. Mr. Jobs plan is complicated and layered. After a time, Phil will emerge from the sea ..a mighty OSX carrying several little Vistas upon his head ...after a little more time the Vistas will grow pale ...then, they will be no more. The myths will multiply ...someone will burn their mouth on a smore ...a troll will sit too close to the campfire.

"When you're losing market share you are indeed dying."

Not when you're loosing it in tenths of percentage points. And don't trot out some silly US only laptop numbers, or year on year growth figures which look big. Look at the whole worldwide share. Apple is pathetic, close to the margin of error in most surveys.

"You sound like General Motors circa 1964."

General Motors still has about 20% of the market, ten times Apple's share. Apple is closer to Hyundai. Actually Apple wishes they had as much share as Hyundai.

"If it does on windows, then it down to the shitty OS programming from Microsoft - not Apple's coding of Safari."

Except IE doesn't crash anywhere near as much, so it must be Apple's shitty coding that's the problem.

This is all part of the Apple plan. Apple releases a BETA version of Safari for Windows. Some of the media coverage says its great. Others come out of the woodwork to say how buggy it is. Either way, many Windows-using drones will hear about the existence of Safari for Windows for the first time. Apple will release a quick series of bug fixes (first one already released), each one generating more free publicity, and then release the first non-BETA version of Safari 3.0 for Windows at the same time as Leopard. This will generate free cross-platform publicity for Leopard aimed at Windows users who are "tuned in" only because they are curious about the first formal release of Safari for Windows.

zero
please choose another name, using a lowercase does not make you different

I think it comes down to this. Apple will never have more momentum than they do today to make a broad shift in the general marketplace. Look at what Apple is valued at with 5-6% marketshare. In 5 years, you think they can't get to 10. Double their current size catches them up with #1.

"Double their current size catches them up with #1."

Catches them up with #1 what? Double their 2% market share worldwide barely puts them in the top 10.

In the US marketplace, assuming 5% share today they need 5x to 6x that to catch up with #1