MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Sinofsky is 5 years younger than Serlet yet he looks much older. That must be what working on Microsoft operating systems will do to you.

Daring Fireball's link to this same article on NYT site with this quote:

"One software developer... compared the two men’s approaches to the difference between martial marching band music and jazz"

I think that just about sums up the difference between Microsoft and Apple.

Web based computing????

And what about all the folks who are still using dialup, not because they choose to but because that is all that is available to them now and all that will be available to them for the next decade or more.

How about all the computer users who do not want to be connected to the almighty web?

Equating OS X with Vista-less is more tan a little disingenuous. OS X is what Vista wanted to be but failed. The tempo is set at Apple, Microsoft just has a lot of me-too tasks that burn out any talent that might fall into MS's clutches

Excuse but:

"The two men are marshaling their software engineers for the next encounter, sometime in 2009, when a new generation of Macintosh and Windows operating systems is due."

Hello? The next generation of Mac OS X is due THIS year- not in 2009. And Leopard will already blow away anything Micro$loth could possibly come up with in 2009.

"“Software is like the tax code,” said Jean-Louis Gassée, a venture capitalist and a former Apple executive, who in the 1990s developed an operating system called Be. “You add lines, but you never take anything away.”"

Was Gassee interviewed for this article, or is this an old quote. Bottom line is that Apple is clearly better positioned for a more net-centric computing distribution, and like the article implies... desktop computing is going away anytime soon.

After struggling for more than half a decade with Vista, its most ambitious development project ever, Microsoft has begun work on a reportedly less ambitious successor under Mr. Sinofsky’s leadership

Less ambitious? Vista as delivered was nothing more than a cosmetic upgrade to XP with a few new features and some security holes patched. How much less ambitious can you get than that?

Damn!

"desktop computing is NOT going away anytime soon."

Oh wow! Just saw the iPhone commercial on TV for the first time. Almost missed it while correcting my typo.

Didn't Jobs just clarify that the OS of the iPhone is<> OS X, and it's not just <i>based on it???

Quoting the article . . . .
"Microsoft is trying again to reconcile the PC operating system with the Internet. It calls the new strategy Windows Live, an effort to leverage its desktop monopoly onto the Web. That effort can be seen in Mr. Sinofsky’s dual role. He is in charge of development for both the next version of the Windows operating system and the new Internet services."

There they go again, M$ does not make a product that serves its customers. M$ software is instead a byproduct of their business impreatives, primarily that of a monopoly.

Please – the LAST thing I want is my Mac dependent upon an internet connection to operate. So what happens when I'm on a plane, or in a remote location, or my ISP goes down? Oh yeah, my Mac would be dead.

Nice thought, but ain't happening in the next 20 years minimum.

Australia's Telstra better get it's shit together then.

Having all the apps on a computer may be a good thing...

BUT - has anyone actually realised that without some sort of internet connection you wont be able to do fuck all on the computer!

Without an internet connection a pc is just a worthless set of parts - You have more chance in getting work done using a slate and a piece of chalk stick!

Web based computing? I DON'T think so!

I often work with information that is regarded a trade secret. There is no way I'm ever going to store that data in a location that is not the laptop in my hands. The security risk is too great. And who are we supposed to trust to keep our data safe? Microsoft? Puh-lese.

Interesting, this is cool, nearly made my day.

ipod download
http://www.zuneconverter.net

If you are like myself and like drinking Camels Milk (slober) you know then that when you pay for something, you want to have it and have it any time you wish, (no innuendo's intended). Therefor I want my itunes tracks just as I want my software, Pouf-ur! Pay once, use forever until an upgrade is required!.

Bill Gates speaks about new videogame control system.

check out the story at

http://iprodreviews.blogspot.com/2007/06/bill-gates-speaks-about-new-videogame.html

or visit
iprodreviews.blogspot.com

re: Bill Gates speaks about new videogame control system.

check out the story at

http://iprodreviews.blogspot.com/2007/06/bill-gates-speaks-about-new-videogame.html

or visit
iprodreviews.blogspot.com

-----

ROFL!

Gates is soooooooooooo visionary! (NOT!)

Nintendo has already done that in the Wii.

I think Gates has totally lost the plot and needs to be put in some retirement home for computer nerds.

He is so out of touch about what is already out there in the marketplace.

It's quite frightening really, how he got so rich with no original ideas or talents.

All this from the 'genius' who stood infront of the world's press and proudly announced that "the internet will neve take off".

ROFL!

"Many technologists contend that the increasingly ponderous PC-bound operating systems that currently power 750 million computers, products like Microsoft’s Windows Vista and Apple’s soon-to-be-released Mac OS X Leopard, will fade in importance," Markoff reports. "In this view, software will be a modular collection of Web-based services — accessible by an array of hand-held consumer devices and computers..."

And what operating system will run on these devices?

How many hardware companies are going to spend the big bucks and develop their own OS to run the browser to run the web based programs?

How many hardware companies would just go the cheaper route and simply grab a Windows Vista or Mobile license?

How many hardware companies wouldn't want to take advantage of maximum third party development by subscribing to the most used OS in the world?

Windows survies because nearly everyone is trained to code for it, it benefits from the economies of scale and certainly a lot cheaper than developing one's own.

Sure it sucks, but the reasons above is why it survives.

Apple has pretty much sucked up all the available market for "we make the OS and the hardware" concept because it's funded by a rather large war chest that got it's start early on in the personal computer buisness and continued by cornering the "high margin" end of the personal computer market.

Nowadays if one has a great hardware concept startup, it's cheaper and faster to simply grab a Windows license and be off.

> Less ambitious? Vista as delivered was nothing more than a
> cosmetic upgrade to XP with a few new features and some
> security holes patched. How much less ambitious can you get
> than that?"

The project was far more ambitious. They ran into so many problems they had to keep dropping features - example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinFS

AFAIK, in the end, they discovered that they just couldn't pile any more spaghetti code on top of the existing mess, scrapped what they had and begun again with the Windows Server 2003 codebase.

"Cosmetic" is inaccurate, too. Certainly, substantial re-writing has gone on. The networking stack is, apparently, entirely new:

http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-051.htm

Of course, Vista is not worth using when OS X is around, but the project was ambitious and what was delivered is not merely cosmetic but includes substantial re-writing -- heck, they had to put all the DRM in it, too ))

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Web based computing = thin computing.

Thin computing puts all the control and all the information on somebody else's computer and leaves you with a smart terminal and rental fees.

I have already had the experience of web-based computing last year. At my university, the laptops that came with the standard "university build" had all the software modified to use a key server for licensing and copy control. When the laptop wasn't connected to the network on campus, it turned into a very expensive paper-weight.

I wiped it clean and installed my own software, mostly FOSS.

Now take a look at what Google is doing for off-line computing — that's the real direction...

" martial marching band music and jazz"

I think that just about sums up the difference between Microsoft and Apple."

In one case you end up with a bunch of people who can win a market share war, in the other case an eclectic mess and 2% market share.

"In this view, software will be a modular collection of Web-based services"

And no one will use paper any more. And we will be able to control the weather. And we'll have flying cars.

Um. No.

This will happen, but most people want to OWN their computers, software and data, not rent use of them.

Will not take off in the consumer space for decades.

FTA: "The company has hinted recently that Mr. Sinofsky's team may be trying to keep the PC operating system relevant by redesigning it to take full advantage of next-generation processing chips from Intel and Advanced Micro Devices that will have dozens of internal processors."

That is one hell of a big challenge and Apple undoubtedly faces the same multicore/manycore challenge. Nobody has as of yet really figured out how to do this effectively and build a suitable development environment for that environment. This is indeed one place that one company can get a major advantage over a rival.

re:Bill Gates speaks about new videogame control system.

What a laff! He obviously thinks having cameras tracking you swinging the bat around your living room is a more accurate experience that using motion sensing controllers. First thing wrong withthis idea is that the rest of the world doesn't have a "media room" the size of small house inside their actual house, unlike Mr. Bill. Secondly, all this camera tech would require more computing horsepower etc. Oh wait that is the point isn't it.
I forget the MS is about elegance of design. It's about using a piledriver to push in a thumbtack. And missing 3 out of 4 tries!!

wish i could edit: should say MS isn't about elegance of design

Apple is organic; Microsoft is artificial. Apple is product-centered; Microsoft is deadline-centered. I think either of those are far better comparisons, especially to those of us who appreciate the glory of marching bands and loathe jazz.

Having all the apps on a computer may be a good thing...

BUT - has anyone actually realised that without some sort of internet connection you wont be able to do fuck all on the computer!

Without an internet connection a pc is just a worthless set of parts - You have more chance in getting work done using a slate and a piece of chalk stick!

...

So, the PC for the last 20 years has been....useless?

You can use it for other things than chat, web, mail or downloading porn, you know.

And I suggest you'd get more work done.

@B-Sabre:

yes, but if all the apps themselves are online... then it's useless unless it's online. I think that's the point.

Flying Cars. I want a Flying Car!

Chris:

No, Petey was suggesting that without the internet anycomputer was useless:

Having all the apps on a computer may be a good thing...

BUT - has anyone actually realised that without some sort of internet connection you wont be able to do fuck all on the computer!

He seems to be saying that even with all the apps on the computer, without the internet its useless.

A revamped model of Windows in 2009? Give me a break. Vista service pack 2 at best. MS is far too backward looking for that to take place. Apple has taken three successful plunges (68000 series to PPC, OS 9 to OS X, and PPC to Intel) and all MS can do is look into backward compatability. More bloatware will ensue.

B-Sabre:

Ah, I guess I was trying to translate what he was saying into something that seemed to make sense in relation to the article or... anything. But if that's what he was saying then, yeah, that's kinda silly!

"Microsoft has begun work on a reportedly less ambitious successor under Mr. Sinofsky’s leadership"

How much less ambitious can you get?

"Er, okay, for the next version of Windows, we're going to, uh, include AlienWare skins for the UI. And maybe give away free fridge magnets, too. People like those. And once everyone is using our new touch-kiosks at bars and bowling alleys, they will surely need to have a fridge to match. One that tells them when they are running out of Schmidt. Our large-appliance strategy simply can't be beat in the home-beer-inventorying space. I'm thinking that we might include a DRM system in a dishwasher too. That would be cool. Maybe we could have it automatically melt all the plastic in a user's crockery library, and they could subscribe to a replacement plan so they would always have fresh, new tupperware. This would be great for out partners at Rubbermaid."

-c

@ C1

Excellent

I'm on a roll today.

Another one smoking funny cigarettes. OSX Tiger is better than Vista as it is now and leopard will come out in October. We'll see more about leopard next week at the WWDC. I'm sure leopard will make Vista look totally stupid and frankly pretty boring in comparison. 2009 Apple will have another trumph or possibly two or more since it takes Microsoft 5 years to make an OS that works with only some new features.

Four days, seventeen hours and 40 minutes.

What Macaholic said.

And to that, I'd add. Why would it be important to game play to have the ability to 'pick up your tennis racket'?

Does Bill think that the 'game' will be more FUN if I can get all 'McEnroe' on my racket and watch Xbox5001®-generated, 3D splinters and strings flying in every direction?

Oooo, oooo. Look! I'm giving the finger to the ump, and now I can watch it in glorious, Surround-O-Vision Instant Replay™!


Next!

and like the article implies... desktop computing is going away anytime soon.

Not going to happen any time soon - or, at least, it's not going to succeed. Remember the difference between renting music, and owning music? Yeh, like hell do I want to rent (either figuratively, or literally) my computer's software/OS/whatever...

"Microsoft has begun work on a reportedly less ambitious successor under Mr. Sinofsky’s leadership"

How much less ambitious can you get?

LOL. I'd have to guess "less ambitious" really means "Realistic goals that we can achieve in this lifetime. No more Holy Grails!".

MS needs to completely scrap Vista, make XP the official & final major Windows release, and stick a small team of drones in a dead-end hallway someplace to do service packs and other maintenance work.

The rest of the company can gawk & daydream at Mount Rainier, wondering how they lost the future to Google and Apple.