By driving Amazon HQ2 away, New York City has sent a terrible signal to businesses worldwide

65 Comments

“Amazon.com Inc.’s decision to drop its expansion plans in the Long Island City neighborhood of Queens plunged local real estate brokers into despair — just months after the euphoria that followed the company’s announcement that it would open offices there and bring thousands of jobs,” Ben Foldy, Sydney Maki, and Lily Katz report for Bloomberg. “But not just despair. Also anger.”

“‘I think those local politicians, their careers are over,’ said Eric Benaim, chief executive officer of Modern Spaces, a Long Island City brokerage, who distributed pins and posters supporting the Amazon deal. ‘They’re responsible for losing 25,000 jobs,’ Foldy, Maki, and Katz report. “Mayor Bill de Blasio and New York Governor Andrew Cuomo lobbied hard for the deal, drawing backlash from local politicians and community organizers who objected to $3 billion in government incentives.”

“Without the boost from Amazon that could have transformed Long Island City into a 24/7 district, Benaim said he thinks it’ll remain just a place for Manhattan commuters to sleep. ‘It’s still going to be a bedroom community, and I feel bad for all the local restaurants, all the local mom-and-pop shops who were counting on this,’ he said. ‘They needed this,'” Foldy, Maki, and Katz report. “Amazon’s withdrawal ‘sends a terrible signal to the marketplace about the ability for companies to expand in New York,’ said Seth Pinsky, an executive vice president at RXR Realty. ‘The people who are younger and don’t remember the fact that New York was not always thriving, I think don’t understand that as bad as the problems of growth are, the problems of decline are even worse.'”

At a contentious City Council meeting on Tuesday, Amazon’s public policy director Brian Huseman touted the deal’s benefits for the city, but also said that Amazon wants to invest in a ‘community that wants us.’ And state Senator Michael Gianaris, who had been appointed to a committee that would have had veto power over the deal, called the $3 billion in incentives ‘extortion,'” Foldy, Maki, and Katz report. “‘They think they can sit there in Seattle and dictate terms and hope that governments bend to their will,’ Gianaris said in a Feb. 8 interview on Bloomberg TV. ‘Well, it’s not going to work.'”

Read more in the full article here.

MacDailyNews Take: Well, 25,000 aren’t going to work at Amazon in Long Island City, that much is sure.

The whims of the few outweigh the needs of the many. — MacDailyNews, December 5, 2017

SEE ALSO:
New York City will lose the bulk of the 25,000 jobs that were promised as Amazon pulls HQ2 due to local opposition – February 14, 2019

65 Comments

  1. The more Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the better! She and other Dem/Lib/Progs will do more to get people’s minds right than any conservative could ever achieve.

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      1. At least Apple has some good core values, but Amazon takes from the commons more than it gives, so it’s a taker corporation.

        Once a person becomes one of the wealthiest citizens owning the wealthiest company in the US, that person then has the responsibility to the community rather than to himself. That responsibility centers on transforming slave labor jobs to well-paying jobs. That’s the meaning of being a good citizen in an era when Radical Capitalism overplays its hand.

        And we all know that Capitalists such as Amazon are “Capitalists” only for PR purposes because they depend on gov. handouts, incentives, favors, and their overuse of common resources, which really is the corruption of true Socialism, in their acquisition to great wealth. They are not even loyal to the US except to wave the flag on nationalistic holidays. So AOC was correct to stem the expansion of this blood sucking, over-entitled corporation into the neighborhood.

        Corporations that take are the old way. No more. It’s now a new day, a new, egalitarian paradigm. Selfishness and exploitation are passe.

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        1. And its huge trucks anchored in its growing and huge distribution centers do not avoid polluting the air with chemicals and particulants, yet depend on local governance to maintain the streets and state and fed. gov. to construct and maintain highways, all for free. Unlike Apple that moves into new devices in order to make the world a better place, Amazon moves into a new area to suck it of wealth.

        2. FYI, I’m in the greater NYC Metro Area and I can assure you that AMZN is going to be expanding here even without any Tax incentives.

          We simply use their services, and what AMZN is currently doing locally is deploying their own (vertically integrated) fleet of delivery trucks … that’s a classical “Cut out the Middleman” for FedEx / UPS / USPS.

          But they’d better watch just how much they cheap out, for the local Facebook-based community group is starting to have more & more complaints about poor customer service in package delivery – – they’re noting that the local AMZN delivery truck is leaving boxes curbside rather than walking them up to the door/stoop, for example.

          If you think package theft is bad from the stoop, curbside will make it even worse…nice self-nuke, Amazon!

        3. I put detailed instructions in the delivery address, like “Leave pkg behind wall out of sight of street” so that they get the idea. If they leave the package anywhere else, it’s obvious that they didn’t deliver it as addressed.

        4. @emmayche:

          A fair point about the option of leaving explicit instructions, but that’s now extra work to do, to try to protect ourself from being inconvenienced by their poor customer service.

          BTW, this doesn’t mean that the other services are doing vastly better … was talking with a guy at work who had the experience on pulling his weapon on his delivery man. For some strange reason, the delivery man was in his back yard, at night, and carrying an A/C unit which was the homeowner’s property.

          Clearly, some drivers are using their delivery jobs to also case out the homes that they’re delivering to for opportunity crimes.

          This one started with the delivery man stealing the package that he had himself delivered an hour earlier…and he only got caught because the homeowner has surveillance cameras.

        7. Indeed, this is now where the corporate spin is being engaged.

          For example, MDN’s headline of “…terrible signal…” — but the cited Bloomberg’s article tells a very different story, since its title is …Real Estate Brokers Despair…”.

          But why do Real Estate Brokers in despair? Don’t believe their hype about jobs and local Mom ‘n Pops stores and how Politicians are to blame (especially since half of the claimed 25,000 jobs were to be at Minimum Wage levels).

          Nope, not at all.

          They’re whining because they SPECULATED by buying early based on mere rumors of Amazon and got burned. Why did they speculate?

          Was it to help out Mom ‘n Pop? Nope.

          Was it to create more jobs? Nope.

          They speculated in order to personally make a profit for just themselves.

          Unfortunately, they’ve forgotten that by definition, speculation means you’re taking risks – – it isn’t supposed to be a zero risk Home Run “win” every single time.

          As such, this so-called “blame” is being misdirected.

      2. TRIMP is another idiot who failed basic economics class. 1. Amazon wasn’t paying ZERO taxes, they were get a tax break. Clearly you and AOC don’t know the difference between a tax break and paying Zero taxes.

        25,000 jobs at $100k plus. Those people pay state and local taxes. So, more tax dollars coming in locally.
        Those people working at amazon have to eat/shop/ etc. , thus local mom and pops open up in the beleaguered area of Long Island City. Turning what is basically a run down are into vibrant development.
        Part of the deal Amazon was going to do revitalization projects in the area.

        So, you ended up with a boat load more economic activity, more taxes, revitalized area and new support business just to name a few of the economic benefits.

        Now you end up with Long Island City still being a shit hole, no new tax revenues and the loss of 25k jobs. AOC and anyone that supports her position on this are clearly idiots and just drinking the socialist koolaid. Enjoy your koolaid Trimp, you’re as dumb as AOC.

        Reply

    2. Why is it EVERY friggin conservative site is falling over themselves covering AOC? I didn’t need to know who she was and now she’s all I hear about. AND she’s not a Republican? Why all the free publicity for an first term greenhorn?

      Reply

      1. “Why is it EVERY friggin conservative site is falling over themselves covering AOC?”

        Reporting is not “falling over themselves covering AOC?” They are simply reporting the truth.

        On the flip side, how is EVERY friggin liberal site falling over themselves.

        Answer: They lost…

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        1. This chick is a Nobody with No power and will only last ONE term. Yet there are 3 tweets within the post above and several in this thread for this nobody and future has-been. For THIS conservative, that’s WAY too much attention to be giving ANY democrat. Call me when she actually does anything worth caring about.

        2. Could not agree more. This dim bulb is acting like denying her constituents 25,000 jobs and $27 billion in tax revenue is a major victory!?! Wow, just unbelievable the stupidity of socialists. The Democrat governor was all in on this deal and all over news channels proclaiming a MAJOR victory for the people of NY before Amazon pulled the plug. This greenhorn politician that won by only 4,000 votes and the NYT did not see coming ignored the governor of her own party for personal press accolades. Well, the constituents will have their say in the next election…

        3. Yeah, and unfortunately, I feel that every time this idiot sneezes, conservatives will LEAP to their keyboards to tell everyone about her yet again.

          By the time her year is up, she’ll have had so much free publicity from conservatives, she’ll be a liberal/independent household name 🙁 Really wish folks would think sometimes.

      2. The most dangerous place to be in the world is between AOC and a camera. They are pumping her up like they pumped up Mr Trump. It’s unbeliebale how stupid the modern press has become. They are nothing more than two-bit Merchants-of-Outrage.

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        1. AOC is in your head and in the heads of everyone in your Right-winger family. She has put a Progressive spell on you. Admit it. She and her positive and uplifting platform fascinates you in all ways.

        2. Uneducated fools like you are the problem the world over.

          Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. – George Santayana, paraphrased

    2. As we see in Washington, politicians respond to their base supporters. So, I think it might be interesting to see whether the majority of local voters in Queens were more interested in the economic benefits or in avoiding increased traffic and housing costs. Adding 25,000 additional households to Silicon Valley or Seattle would be wildly unpopular.

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      1. We can always count on a USER EXCUSE when Dumb Dems fall down. Responding to “their base” or the small cabal of extremists the media adores that do NOT represent their base.

        No matter. The Democrats and NYC lost BIG TIME and they do not realize the economic fallout they created for years to come…

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      2. I wasn’t making an excuse. I was asking a question. Unlike you, apparently, I figure that our elected representatives should listen to the electorate and taxpayers. If local residents opposed this project, it is not surprising that local officials listened to them. Not all elected officials are willing to violate the Constitution for a pet project that most of their constituents see as foolish.

        Reply

        1. Posting if, ands or buts competing theories of outcomes is not asking a question. Get real.

          “Unlike you, apparently,” No, unlike you most definitely, I know what I believe and once again you do not.

          “If local residents opposed this project, it is not surprising that local officials listened to them.”

          “IF?” So you don’t know. Just making excuses for the dumbest Democrat MISTAKE since Trump was elected, noted.

          “Not all elected officials are willing to violate the Constitution for a pet project that most of their constituents see as foolish.”

          Switching gears and deflection again USER, gee, what a surprise.

          Happy to oblige. Last time I checked the Constitution was intact. The “pet project” putdown is the main reason Trump was elected. For years the illegal immigration issue has polled favorably as a priority over 50-70%. Personally, I would not speculate or speak for “most constituents.” It makes you look like a pompous ass…

        2. How unsurprising that uneducated GoeB can’t parse a grammatically correct rhetorical supposition that a rube coder would recognise as If >Then.
          Jeez…dimwittery personified.

  5. I will never understand how a company deserves a tax break in order to hire people to make it more money. Talk about entitlement.

    At least if there were unfiform laws that applied to any and all companies, but this case by case is inequitable.

    Reply

        1. By holding most of his shares since the company’s founding, Mr. Gates delayed paying tax on those capital gains. By donating the shares to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, that wealth will never be taxed.

          Thus, the fact that capital gains are not taxed as long as the asset is held (and, in real estate, not even when sold if the proceeds are reinvested in a “like” asset) and the existence of the charitable donation tax deduction have provided Bill Gates with what might be called the biggest tax break in history. The federal government likely lost out on $15-20 billion. Even for the federal government that is real money, enough to, for example, run the State Department for about a year.

          — Forbes, August 13, 2017

        2. Gates can have his family members administer the trust and they can enjoy a fat, easy living off it, in perpetuity. He can also use to trust to further his pet goals even if they reflect a political agenda (e.g., planned parenthood, etc).

          Lastly, he gets lots of LOVE from the media as a great, philanthropic American. The old crooked Warren Buffett knows a sure thing when he sees it and has followed suit by joining the Gates Foundation.

        3. As everyone knows, you can’t enjoy a benefit or suffer a detriment from price changes in a stock until you sell it. Income and capital gains taxes are directed at actual appreciated income or gain, not at unappreciated virtual changes in book value. Otherwise the owner would be forced to sell a portion of the asset every year to pay the taxes.

          Similarly, it has always been the law that charitable stock contributions are treated for tax purposes as a gift of the donor’s basis in the stock, not its current market value. Again, the alternative would be to force the donor to sell the asset, pay the taxes, and donate only what was left over. That would make no difference to the donor, since he doesn’t get the benefit of the stock appreciation either way. It would, however, reduce the benefit to the charity by the amount of the taxes.

          The Gates Foundation donation was only a “loss to the federal treasury” if you think that Uncle Sam has a moral right to tax the appreciation in value of unsold stock, even if the owner never sees a dime of actual cash benefit.

          It seems to

        6. So how would changing the law—as the Republicans at Forbes suggest— to require that charitable donations of appreciated stock be regarded as a taxable sale of the stock at fair market value (rather than as a tax-exempt contribution of the donor’s basis in the stock) not constitute a tax increase? The Forbes article cited by First says that under that scenario the IRS would get up to $20 billion in additional revenue from just one taxpayer.

          To repeat, why would a Republican endorse a tax grab on that scale? Could it be the same reason behind the “reform” that produced a tax increase for middle-income Americans who itemized deductions to help finance the massive benefits granted to the top 1%?

        7. “Could it be the same reason behind the “reform” that produced a tax increase for middle-income Americans who itemized deductions to help finance the massive benefits granted to the top 1%?”

          You sound like a campaign manager for a Democrat presidential candidate, guilt by inference shame tactic.

          Two points:

          1- No surprise you neglected to mention the top 1% pay over 90% of federal taxes and roughly half the nation pay no federal taxes. Seems FAIR to me the “massive benefits” of tax relief should be EQUAL to the MASSIVE TAXES PAID. Obviously, you don’t believe that so keep up the meme your heroes Clinton, AOC, Sanders, Warren and the rest of your party parrot relentlessly. Clearly, that would be soak the rich. After all, no tax is too high for the Democratic Party.

          2- I am not in the 1%, but thanks to tax relief passed by President Trump, very grateful I have thousands more in my pocket. Will remember that the next presidential election…

        8. Glad you have thousands more. I don’t. The increase in the standard deduction was not enough to offset the elimination of personal exemptions plus the new limits on the deductions for mortgage interest and state taxes.

          I am not alone. It has been widely reported how many Americans will either be receiving smaller refunds than they expected or will have to write a big check. The withholding tables were jiggered to “put money in people’s pockets” ahead of the congressional elections that would later have to be paid back.

        9. See my post above about Gates. What he did do was to place his wealth in a “charitable trust” tax loophole, permanently untouchable such that the government will never see a penny of it.

        10. It isn’t a loophole. Nonprofit charitable organizations have been tax exempt since the invention of the income tax. Do you want to tax the Red Cross? Churches?

          Gates didn’t pay a personal tax on that “income” because he never received any benefit from it. His profit only existed on paper until he sold the stock and actually realized the increase in stock price from the date of acquisition to the date of sale. At that point, and only then, he would pay a capital gains tax on the difference between his basis and the sales price.

          But he never sold it! Gates donated the unsold stock to a tax-exempt foundation, which is forbidden to benefit him personally. You don’t pay income tax unless you have income, or capital gains tax unless you realize a capital gain. Or unless you are the victim of a tax grab like the one advocated by Forbes.

        12. Gates wasn’t talking trash about anybody. He was criticizing the concept of cities competing in giving major tax rebates to large corporations . As many Democrats do that as Republicans. The NYC rebates were entirely driven by Democrats.

          Nothing to see here because what you described never happened. . Sort of like the national emergency that even its author concedes wasn’t necessary, and that seeks to address a situation that isn’t remotely as threatening as it was in the 1990s.

  6. NYC sent an excellent signal to businesses worldwide: “Come to NYC, but you’re going to play by the rules like everybody else. If you think you are going to get away with something for nothing here, go away, we don’t need you.”

    Reply

  7. This was planned by Amazon all along, I don’t think the protesters took them by surprise as others have said. Amazon just wanted to show the rest of the country what happens when you don’t give them everything they want.
    Not passing judgment on either side, just observing what I think happened.

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  8. The bigger pattern is that inner cities are being gentrified, and the working class are moving out to the suburbs. The real estate market was in a flurry with the Amazon announcement. The affect on middle income people who have traditionally lived in Queens is that they would have to move out to the suburbs . . . we already see this in places like San Francisco, where people commute 1 hour from the suburbs, for minimum wage jobs in the city . . . or Los Angeles, where the poor inner city of South Central and its crime, has migrated an hour east to the suburbs such as San Bernardino.

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  10. “It’s not going to work.” LOL! Wake up Socialists, this is 50 State Competition, if not world-wide…

    Breaking News #1: Businesses never pay taxes, only pass them onto the customer. Consumers pay all taxes. I know, earth shattering concept.

    Breaking News #2: Giving Amazon breaks is fantastic (if NY wanted them), because they will reap massive taxes from then employees living there – errrrr, would have.

    Seattle is chasing Amazon out the door with their insane tax ideas on them. Apple isn’t going to be building an more massive campuses in CA either – which is why Texas is their next big campus.

    All of these massively liberal states, even though many of these high-tech CEO’s and leaders are liberal, they are so until it effects them, and suddenly they bolt – let that hypocrisy sink in… which flows right into the idea that everyone looks after #1 first, and with that in mind, it’s why Capitalism pushes excellence and allows for the free exchange of goods and services, each deciding what benefits themselves most.

    Socialism – Communism without the use of military force. Ugh…

    Reply

  12. Yeah, libs think they are enlightened… but give them an actual smart woman and they are intimidated. Give them a ditz with big puppy eyes, and they will worship any stupidity that comes out of her mouth.

    Reply

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