First off, as per the pop-over ads some visitors have encountered of late: We’ve been fighting this most recent battle for weeks now. These are rogue ads that come from third-party ad networks that do no follow the ad network rules. We try to ban the URLs to which these ads resolve, but it’s ineffective. Basically, we notify all of the ad networks (since we don’t usually know from which one it’s coming) and then have to wait until the ad networks ferret them out and ban them. Regular reader know we’ve been fighting these rogue ad battles for years. Thank you for your patience.
Secondly, a couple of years ago, the model that had worked since our inception (put some ads on your site, get paid enough to keep running it) cracked. The ad rates dropped significantly. Many sites’ revenue was cut dramatically. Some sites (like the long-lived MacNN) didn’t make it and closed up shop.
As our regular readers know, and as we’ve discussed with many longtime readers behind the scenes, our stopgap measure was to put up more ads to make up for the shortfall. And, it worked to the point where we can keep financing the site. But, it’s certainly not optimal. In fact, it’s a mess. We know it’s a mess. You know it’s a mess. And it makes us sad, along with and many of you from whom we’ve heard.
We long to go back to the old days of fewer, better, more relevant, and less annoying ads making for a much less cluttered site. Being freed, even partially, from dealing with “The Ad Situation,” as we call it (maybe with an additional adjective or three), would also give us more time to concentrate on content.
A good number of our regular readers have suggested we try something like Patreon. Basically, we’d be asking readers to patronize the site (as opposed to patronizing our advertisers) by contributing a few dollars each month. Most Patreon sites offer something extra for patrons and we’d certainly do that (readers who patronize MacDailyNews would get extra articles written by SteveJack, for example, that would only be available to our reader patrons), but, if we did this, we’d also like to offer a twist that benefits all visitors:
Eliminate ads as the income they bring in are offset by Patreon.
So, not only would our patrons be getting something extra, they’d also be purging the site of ad positions. We’d simply remove ads as each ad position’s average monthly revenue is offset. Theoretically, we could get to the point where there would be no ads on the site at all. But, even along the way, everyone would benefit, thanks to the patrons.
Anyway, what do you think of that idea or do you have a better or additional ideas?
My main work machines are a Macbook Pro from 2010 and a 27in iMac from 2009. Considering how you brag all the time about having or getting the newest iPhone X, Apple Watch, Mac etc I would say part of the problem is that you spend too much.
I’d rather MDN be current on Apple hardware and software so that they know WTF they’re talking about, unlike some people.
WordPress.com VIP Hosting, which this site uses, costs between $5,000 to $25,000 per month.
New iPhones each year are nothing compared to the hard and fast costs of running such a site.
And don’t forget that a new automobile costs between $25k and $250k. So obviously MDN cannot be held responsible for the shitty ads it pushes onto its users, while hypocritically whining about Google in its commentary. Suuuuure……
MacDailyNews has explained why there are Google ads on the site repeatedly:
Imagine if your livelihood depended on one company that had not only monopolized web search (and, thereby, basically controlled how new customers find you), but also controlled the bulk of online advertising dollars which funded your business and which they could pull, simply threaten to pull, or reduce rates at any time? Now also imagine if you believe this monopolist basically stole the product of another company that is the very subject of your business? How much would you criticize the monopolist thief’s business practices?
You might guess that it would be a tough road to walk. (We’re only imagining, of course!)
That would be a good example of why monopolies are bad for everyone.
The U.S. government has utterly failed to police Google. Because the people with the power to do so currently are corrupt. Follow the money. Hopefully, the European Union will help to correct the situation.
In the meantime, stop using Google search and Google products wherever possible. Monopolies are bad for everyone.
— MacDailyNews, July 14, 2016
Weak excuse. Google doesn’t have a monopoly on advertising. Nor does MDN get a free pass for all the trackers it uses while it rages on about how Apple cares about user privacy. Self serving conservitard hypocrisy here is easily outclassed by reliable objective Apple websites. The only reason to visit mdn once in a while is to get an occasional security advice from Derek or a bit of wise FACT BASED perspective from people like TXuser
Not a nice reply at all. MDN is asking for reader’s input and this is the best one can come up with? Shame.
Here’s my 2 cents on MDN. I would have long preferred a model that would allow people to pay and then see no ads, and still allow for a “fremium” experience where nonpaying members have to sort though the mess that the ad-encrusted site has become. I wouldn’t be enticed though just by more articles from Steve-Jack (no offense to him, but it’s not an inducement to pony up cash….not having to see advertisements is plenty worthwhile in its own right).
Two things have weighed negatively on my enthusiasm for this site, first is all the ads and how slow it loads as a result. In short, it’s an annoying experience every time I come here for what I hope is useful information. The second thing is that my “oomph” for Apple products is waning of late. This isn’t anything that MDN can do anything about directly as it falls squarely on Tim’s shoulders. Unexciting. Half-done products. Missed deadlines, missing features, etc. I don’t look forward to all things Apple anymore (though I remain interested nonetheless). In this dynamic, I might be less inclined to pay for access to the site than I once was.
Does this help? Dunno. Seems MDN missed a good opportunity to monetize by having a pay version some years ago and could now be a little too late to the game to have it matter much. One man’s opinion so take it with a grain of salt. I do appreciate the effort to ask our thoughts/opinions though. Well done on that front MDN. Seriously.
Agreed. Apple products are so boring, so uninteresting, that it’s almost impossible to get excited about them anymore. Especially the Mac. I’m a 30+ year Apple user and so the Mac will always be #1 with me. I use my Mac EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. I love it. I wish Apple loved the Mac as much as I do.
My enthusiasm for this site has also waned, but it’s not due to Apple’s product line. It’s the right-wing tilt to the posts, especially those with only the flimsiest connection to Apple.
As many others have said before, we come here for Apple news and the shared Mac expertise when it comes to figuring out why things aren’t working the way they should. The only chief executive I want to read about on MDN is Tim Cook (and only when nothing refers to his sexuality, okay?).
So, you’re blaming MDN when Apple and Trump intersect? You want MDN to ignore when Cook meets with Trump? Pretend it didn’t happen, so that your warped little worldview isn’t disrupted?
I’d rather have MDN report ALL of the Apple-related news, not try to ignore some to make little pajama-boys and girls feel comfy.
I didn’t see you complaining when MDN covered the fact that Obama was a confirmed iPad user (below) TWICE. That’s because you’re a hypocrite.
U.S. President Obama confirmed Apple iPad owner (with photo) – April 25, 2011
U.S. President Obama confirmed Apple iPad owner – March 28, 2011
Right wing tilt… lol
I deed upside down !
To pay and then to be censored just because it does not suit their point of view…….
Ps.
SteveJack
Can shamelessly be a hack .
And u know it .
Funny, I was going to say my enthusiasm for this site has also waned, but it’s not due to Apple’s product line. It’s the left-wing tilt to the replies of posts, especially those with only the flimsiest connection to Apple.
You have to endure Trump.
I had to endure Obama.
To each their own, I guess.
Soooo basically it’s a right wing tilt with issues and comments you disagree with that irritate you. Ummm ok I see we have an adult in the house here people.
How come if someone says something you don’t agree with you liberal left always get up in a tizzy? Just another typical leftist ideology. They can’t handle another persons viewpoint that they don’t agree with.
Sigh. I don’t have a problem with political opinions that are not my own. There are plenty of political blogs for that. I’m just saying I find it distracting that many of these political discussions (arguments) are completely unrelated to Apple.
When the President — any President — makes Apple related news, of course I’d like to see it here. But that’s not what I’m talking about… but I’m sure you are already aware of that.
Hosting costs $5,000 – $25,000 per month?!
Holy shit! I take back my previous comment. I had no idea of the actual costs to run a widely read website like this.
Yes, and that’s just the hosting costs. There are other costs involved, too. Staffing, ad management, code maintenance, etc.
I certainly know what it costs in money and man-hours to run a website.
And I don’t think for a minute someone should lose money on it.
But here’s my problem. I make good money, but I’ve $9-a-month’d myself to death.
With all of my online storage, apps, video, etc., I am literally spending too much on all of this stuff and have to once again, start eliminating these things.
To pay another $5-$10 a month would not be possible for one website for me.
I wish you guys luck, it’s a tough one when you’re not selling product like many sites do.
Speaking fo that, maybe you could do that? Dunno, it’s a tough economy all around, and there are no easy answers.
The Ptrion idea sounds good. I’d definitely donate for “opinion” pieces and such.
>
I would pay $5 per month sub to you guys to get rid of all the ads
Is that even an option for those of us who despise ads enough to put up the cash to back our view?
I look at MDN several times a day. Count me in.
Me too.
I wonder though why most other legitimate sites don’t seem to suffer from “rogue ads that come from third-party ad networks?” I haven’t seen it anywhere on legitimate sites except here. Possibly others have better site protection in place?
The ads are annoying and offensive, but the rightwing bias and commentary particularly by SteveJack are definitely something I would not want to pay for. We “libtards” are not amused. Should have kept “politics” as some call it out of the equation.
Please provide specific examples (links) of “rightwing bias and commentary particularly by SteveJack.”
Failing that, I’d hope MDN will simply delete your comment as it is not factually based.
Some of these addled leftists are so far gone that they see anything, even left-of-center statements, as “rightwing bias.” SAD!
True, but these few extremists you highlight are hugely outnumbered by the trumpist dittoheads who blindly support the stupid shortsighted stuff the potus is attempting to do. Trump is not conservative nor does he stick to principles. He lobbyists he has surrounded himself with are not draining the swamp. But that’s fodder for a political siite. Mdn proports to be a Mac discussion and news site. It fails miserably on that even if a reader had the patience to negotiate the horrible Google ads. That is why it’s not a worthy daily news site, it’s a one a month time waster now.
Partisans are blind to their huge biases. This has also ruined mdn for good. This site and people like you go out of your way to attack anyone who questions the incompetent potus carnival barker that is setting America back a couple decades while other nations work together to reform their issues. But you just can’t stopat Apple discussion, you make anyone left of you the scapegoat for everything your narrow little brain doesn’t like or understand.
More to the point: the fact that your every post is political, has nothing to do with Macs, and flies a partisan icon, tells everybody that you’re not here to discuss Macs. Ever.
See there’s your problem. You say America is being set back a couple of decades. I don’t see that happening and think you are just plain nuts.
You say other nations work together to reform their issues but what you mean is agree with us on our values, to Hell with your values and if you don’t then you are a racist, xenophobe, sexist, homophobe… you get the picture.
MDN should change its name since it spends so little screen space on Mac related subject matter, and its biased selective policing of its discussion sections. MDN has no values, other than the almighty dollar. If it did, it wouldn’t support Google profit. It wouldn’t praise stock games while making snide personal attacks. It would have enough class to properly spell names and terms. But no, the lowest common denominator towards ad profit is the only goal, and it if it takes non sequitur politics and religion to pump up readership, then that is what happens. Too bad because this used to be a site where one could learn new things about the Mac.
Google ads are the only game in town. MDN is discussing Patreon as a means to STOP using GOOGLE ads which is exactly what you want. So, how much will you give to patronize MDN per month?
No sir, the “both sides do it” argument is not accurate.
I do not mind Conservative opinion as long as it is factual and respectful- In fact it can sometimes be quite interesting. Then there is the whole stream of stuff that cats anyone not a rock rib Republican as a person who does not love their country, etc.
Some sites (Ars comes to mind) where they have places for discussions that are not directly related to the material posted. Maybe MDN could set up something along those lines.
Just remember, the truth has a liberal bias.
Libetards are the ones who politicized this site..
You guys live in a constant state of denial and delusion ha. ?
As a known conservative on this site, let me simply point out that you have missed two salient points:
1) “Libtard” has no ‘e’. If you can’t spell, the effectiveness of your message is significantly reduced.
2) Such ad hominem responses (as are unfortunately common from both sides on this site) do nothing to advance the discussion – in fact, they TERMINATE the discussion and thus the flow of comments, because they generate so much “noise” that those here to learn turn away.
To both left and right: the USA needs both sides, because neither side will learn anything living in an echo chamber. I value the insights of my liberal neighbors, EVEN WHEN I DISAGREE, because at the very least I learn where they’re coming from, and sometimes I even learn things which alter how I view an issue.
Perhaps if we all started with the assumption that we all have at heart what we believe the best interests of all to be, and started discussing rather than attacking, we’d all be better off.
I know, auramac. I know. I wish I can turn on TV and watch a sportscast, the evening national newscast, some evening sitcoms and dramas, then relax to the late night shows without having to be bombarded by Leftwing innuendos of what’s wrong with me and my political ideology all the time. Don’t get me started with the internet or college academia professors and students.
Well, I can always go see a Broadway play. Hmm, I wonder what this “Hamilton” is all about? I guess there is always the Jesus in a jar of urine Fine Art. Then again, I’ll hang with my gay friends who always go to Christian bakers for their cakes, but never go and disturb Islamic bakers. Curious, curious…
I deleted your iOS app because unable to see article because of add that refused to go away without restart of app. Your webpage today TWICE auto downloaded a Flash upgrader package not fro Adobe. Sorry, can’t stay. Loved you guys but I can’t/ Im not tech savvy enough to know difference between spam, hack or an infection. Good luck, fell free to contact when resolved as I trust none of your current advertisers because of issue.
Have you considered Merchandise? Perhaps you could team up with Snaggy and Nitrozac for some exclusive merch?
Agree. MAGA hats and other Trump merchandise might be big among some fans on this website. Bumper stickers might sell, too. Orange tanning formula. Toupees. Condoms. Links to “Philadelphia” lawyers for when you may just need to shut people up. Maybe sell shares in shady money-laundering hotel deals and Miss Russky beauty pageants. Pee-pee Anne dolls. Etc. Great idea!
I really don’t like recurring charges. I do like MDN, mostly for the humor. I might cough up some bucks but to really make a decision, I need some real numbers: let us know 1) how many employees you have 2) what their aggregate salary is 3) how much hosting costs you 4) the number of readers/visitors you have 5) how much you get for ads on each page and 6) how much your total expenses are and 7) How much you get paid for all the ads. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out #7 is way less than #6.
Now I am going to be blunt: I’m going to take #2 above and divide it by #1 above and if that number is greater than my annual salary is greater than mine, there is no way I’m going to sign up for any recurring charges. Bluntly, Apple news and MDN are fun and MDN makes it convenient but what I hear about here, I hear from other sources in a few weeks.
Whatever you decide, keep up the good work.
Yeah, I’m sure MDN, like any other company, will get right back to you with all of that confidential information lickety-split.
Sheesh, some people are friggin’ out there!
OK, fair enough. How about doing it just generally?
1) 12 2) $1.2 million 3) $600,000 4) 50,000 5) $0.05 6) 2.5 million 7) $2.4 million.
Am I off by a factor of 2 on any one of those numbers?
The type of ads have been bad for a long time. The ads are intrusive, overwriting the screen and then a string of AMAZON sweepstake ads you can’t get rid of other than to leave the site or kill the app. These ads don’t appear on the other sites I visit, just MDN. It doesn’t reflect well on MDN. I hope MDN shut down these types of ads on it’s site.
I’d chip in.
I’ve actually been looking for a replacement to MDN lately because of the ad volume. A small column of text surrounded by furiously animated ads (even with all plugins and autoplay off) gives me a headache. I would be happy to pay a small fee per month (couple dollars, at most) for no ads; I do the same with other sites I frequent that offer the option.
My other choices are to stop reading or install an ad blocker. Either way you’d get no revenue, but these ads have gotten WAY out of hand.
machash is an aggregate Apple news site, without the political commentary. It also shows you multiple sources for stories, allowing you to gain further perspective if you like.
I would pay $2/month or $25 a year.
I don’t mind the ads on your site, except for on the mobile app, where they take over the screen and cannot be closed. I really don’t mind ignoring them.
I would purchase future macs/iphones/etc from a link on your site so that you get a percentage. Perhaps set something like that up and make the links prominent?
That’s all I’ve got. Thanks for the transparency regarding your efforts and your invitation for us to write in.
Count me in – I would contribute a regular monthly fee – that’s what I do with Phillip Elmer DeWitt on his Apple 3.0 site – it’s $9.99/month. I’d gladly do that with MDN.
Ads: I don’t mind ads if they don’t jump in front of texts and articles. On a few sites I frequent that were ad supported, the ads were linked to my likes and I tolerated them; here, they have nothing to do with my potential purchase interests or news interests.
BTW, I discovered recently that when a link hijacks me as it does many here, there is a cookie added to the browser that lets it keep on hijacking. I am sure many of the guys and women here know it – but at the same time, I am sure that more than 50% of the folks here do not realize that a hijacking link establishes a cookie that keeps on hijacking over certain sites. Clean/clear the cache/cookies regularly or look for cookie links that you don’t know and delete them.
I have been a happy visitor since day one I’d guess. I love the content and the pro Mac stance. I have stood with Apple/MDN thru all kinds of sh_t and enjoyed the journey. That being said, I have felt the site is so ad filled as it has a grasping and greedy feel. I dont know the ad names but I have been loosing control of my phone browser and have to leave the hijacked page thru annoying means. There is probably something I am missing to click. I dunno, but I dream going to the articles beyond the home page on my phone, no prob on my Macs I can deal easier. I’m sure this web site costs money to run, but this is the only site I visit regularly that I put up with anything close to the anoyance level of using this site. At least it shows your content is good but it’s effecting my desire to visit.
I have been visiting MDN almost everyday, pretty nearly since its inception, I think. Although I don’t know for sure when that was, it’s been so long. Late 90’s? It was and still is my favorite, most often visited site. Over the many years, I have really, really enjoyed the often humorous, and often insightful MDN “Takes”.
Being a proud, 100%, SJW, weed-smoking, snowflake, liberal, though, I feel pretty much unwelcome here, as you can imagine. In the beginning, MDN seemed apolitical, but in more recent years they have gone from a tech site, to a site with a polarizing political agenda that despises my world view.
Additionally, most commenters here, if they have read my input, would likely characterize me as a blind Apple fanboy. I think that perception is false, I have found favor for most of what Apple does only after careful consideration. In recent times, however, MDN and their vocal echo chamber have turned into dark, rabid critics of Tim Cook’s leadership. Personally, I see this viewpoint on Cook’s failings as fanatically overblown and probably fueled more by the hateful political agenda here than by actual management issues. I would ask, if Cook were a staunch supporter of Trump, would you still be as negative toward his stewardship of Apple?And I would ask, who would you choose to replace him? Regardless, the constant, ugly, antagonism toward Cook, you will likely be happy to know, saddens me and tend to spoil my enjoyment of the site.
So basically, even though I am a long, long standing fan and patron of MDN, and even though I haven’t, over the years, changed politically or in my admiration of Steve Job’s amazing juggernaut of a business creation, it seems I have become, by default, an unwelcome contrarian, here.
But here is the thing, when MDN is not waxing political, or grinding Tim Cook under their heels, they still have whatever that snarky, insightful mojo it is that has kept me here over the years. So beat me up and vote me down, I am staying. And yes, I would regularly pay a small, reasonable amount to support MDN and ditch the ads.
Open thread: About ads on MacDailyNews…
And now, a word from our Sponsors…
Sorry MDN. I just had to.
Paterson sounds like a plan if it will eliminate the frequent MacKeeper and Adobe highjacks, not to mention the Amazon gift card ones that overtake the app.
Personally I find the political rants/insults in the comments more offensive then any title an article might have.
I don’t know how or why the popups happen, but they’re the worst of any website I go to, ESPECIALLY on my iPhone. So whatever the contrived reason for these popup adds, why not just do what every other website does and have adds that don’t cause horrendous popup problems on iOS and safari?
Simply stop your current adds, and find another (more common) way to get adds on your site. If you’re using the most common add platform already, maybe there’s a virus in your website itself. Perhaps it’s a problem with wordpress.
Get it together MDN, you don’t need users telling you HOW to run YOUR add business. You just need to hear your users telling you that your adds are terrible (which is the point of this thread), and fix the issue. It’s NOT a case by case problem, if it were we would have these problems intermittently on any website that uses adds. Instead, I get NONE of the same problems from ANY website except yours.
I would gladly thrown in a few dollars a month for the likes of SteveJack and your commentary. You clearly run circles around me, and I’d be glad to pay my way!
MDN,
as a non-US visitor I find the political comments from left and right views infuriating. I agree with the freedom of speech but when an article clearly has nothing to do with politics and the second comment down starts a flame war between “Libtards” & “Trumpists” yet again it puts me off coming to this site. I find myself going elsewhere more and more often.
If you’d ban all political flame wars and make comments stick to the subject I’d patronise your site more often with the ads the ads.
I love MDN.
I have no problem with the ads on with MDN when on my computer. The only “ad issues” are with iOS where I am hijacked to some app store ad, or contest, and there is no getting back to where I was because if I go back to the article, poof off I go again, hijacked. I have to force quit the MDN app.
But MDN is the only place this happens. What ad networks do others use?
All that said, I would chip in too.
A few thoughts:
1. Other web sites and iOS apps with ads don’t seem to suffer from the same type of hijacking from ads, so I wonder if it is the fact you have opted for a WordPress back end that is causing this? Perhaps another platform would enable you to better control what is happening?
2. Apple News usually delivers the articles you refer to way earlier than they appear here at MDN – often by a full day or sometimes even by 2 or 3. Now, while I appreciate the extra comment and references to prior articles, I would want to see more original content – based on your access to sources and invitations to events – before I stumped up any money to subscribe.
3. While you are certainly free to HAVE a political leaning, I feel that it has reached a level of intrusiveness over the past few years and that you should clearly indicate where you are editorializing from personal opinion separately from technical commentary on article contents. This may help sideline the often quite vicious political shitfights that often break out to a place outside of the main articles.
MDN has pretty much lost me. It was mostly due to the hateful political schtick of botvinnick & friends. I used to love checking out the news here and reading some occasionally very informative or insightful comments. But after all the political hijacking, this place is just not the same. So I find I drop in less and less. Eventually, I will stop dropping in at all. So, ya, basically, I don’t give a fig about ads or Patreon. MDN has lost me.
I find it very telling that you did not mention any of the left-wing posters as a reason for not wanting to visit MDN as often as you used to do. When Trump was elected, liberal posts stating that “If you voted for Trump, it proves you’re a racist” were flowing continuously on this site. Why don’t I hear you complaining about that?
Have you ever noticed that it is primarily the right wing nuts — and, in fact, a handful of trolls — who whine and bitch ad nauseam about left wing “libtards”? And that so-called “libtards” do not resort to similar asinine name-calling all the time?
As for the bigotry implicit in the positions, opinions, and statements of Trump and many or his supporters, I think the historical record has been quite clear that there is more than an iota of truth in this. Reality is a constraint. It is not what you think it is.
The reality is that this site will close because it is driving away people because of the all the political crap.
That’s capitalism – if your product does not cater to the customers needs then it will not survive.
Kapish?
I agree with you. But the issue is not so much about politics as it is about hateful discourse. The offending parties attempt to legitimize their hateful & uncivil speech by claiming their right to discuss “politics” and defend “conservative” values.
But I call BS. What they are really doing is hiding behind the guise of “free speech” to spout fundamentally hateful thoughts that are anathema to modern civil society and a fully-functioning democracy.
It is not really about politics. If it were, most people would not object. Bigotry and discrimination have no place in the world, let alone in what we like to pretend is one of the highest forms of civilization the world has ever seen.
Thank you MDN for discussing the situation. I’m one of those who’d happily donate to the cause.