“Apple head Tim Cook on Monday shared publicity photos from a pair of stops on his tour of France, including a visit with iPhone X supplier Eldim, and a trip to the Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial, where over 9,300 U.S. soldiers who fought in World War II are buried,” Roger Fingas reports for AppleInsider.
“‘At Normandy, honoring those who made the ultimate sacrifice,’ Cook wrote on Twitter,” Fingas reports. “The CEO also quoted a part of a prayer carved on a chapel wall — ‘Think not only upon their passing. Remember the glory of their spirit.'”
“Cook also stopped by My Little Paris, a startup specializing in place recommendations,” Fingas reports. “‘The CEO of Apple shared a roast chicken at My Little Paris to celebrate its 11 apps,’ the company said in a tweet.”
MacDailyNews Take: Normandy American Cemetery is hallowed ground.
Normandy American Cemetery in Colleville-sur-Mer, France
At Normandy, honoring those who made the ultimate sacrifice. “Think not only upon their passing. Remember the glory of their spirit.” pic.twitter.com/Unq6NXoe5y
Thanks Tim, have visited D-Day coast twice for extended period, sobering experience, genuine hero’s. perhaps some of our neo national socialists should visit and ponder the cost of freedom
Agreed about the American cemetery. It is very sobering. Take the time to visit the other cemeteries and monuments in France too. Many more valiant young soldiers lost from many nations. The fight for freedom isn’t just an American effort.
Not sure I understand the point of the comment about national socialists. Some on this board don’t understand at all what these terms mean. Hitler was socialist in name only. All modern nations have mixed economic models, including the USA from the very start. The Continental Army was a federal program for the social good that replaced the marginally effective disjointed militias (which were social programs on a smaller ununified scale).
Enlightened people realize that a more collaborative “socialist” approach produces good outcomes. centuries of war proved again and again that competition to the point of conflict is a game nobody wins. Undemocratic corporatism hoards wealth worse than the feudal system that the USA once rebelled against. Patriots were liberals.
Trump and the alt right attempt to discredit all social programs of any time but they are required. Fire stations, libraries, public parks… All social and all make us happier and healthier. I served and am not ashamed to say that the military is also a socialist concept. It’s the biggest federal program of all. You can’t support the troops and then whine about socialism. You think botvinnik actually served? His hero Trump didn’t.
@USAF retired
– I originally started by reply with a comment about how using terms like “neo national socialists” tend to obscure rather than enlighten because people either writing or reading tend to make false assumptions about what those terms actually mean. That’s why I changed it to starting by saying that it was never a left-right struggle, even though some people persist in trying to frame it in those terms.
“If you check Medicaid/Medicare and Social security are way larger then the defense department.”
Medicare and Social Security are insurance programs funded by premiums collected as special taxes. They are not entitlements and are not funded from general revenue.
Imagine that, two entirely separate programs added up to be larger than the one defence department.
For how many years are you going to default to “What about Clinton”?
Yet another symptom of senility… “When ah wuz yung, there was this darkie who tricked his way into being President for a while.”
It’s all this loon has to offer. His extremist faction has zero accomplishments and the idiots of the administration have made a complete mockery of the duties they are supposed to accomplish. So naturally the mentally deficient fan club has to put up a straw figure to knock down with the weakest of logic. Watching botty shadow box would be entertaining if it wasn’t so tragic for the future of the USA.
Public polls show that the Republican party is disliked and untrusted even moreso than the inept Democrats:
Just about any lady in a pantsuit would do a better job than Tweet-and-Putt-in-Chief.
Were women allowed in your military when this person you call Felonia would have been of age to serve?
I didn’t think so.
She was like, you know, climbing Mount Everest at the time with her namesake, Edmund Hillary, dodging sniper fire…just ask Brian Williams, he was there. For sure, man.
dolts.
…then, she and Harvey Weinstein sang hymns together…man, it was poignant.
USAF retired, blowing hot air. Hitler was a socialist, as was Stalin. Your “enlightened” and “collaborative” approach involves misery for all. No one on the right is trying to discredit the military, libraries, public parks, or fire stations, LOL. You leftists are such propagandists, way to take a dump on something we could all laud Tim Cook for. By the way, the USAF is the most SJW-converged cesspool in the military.
Oh, fuck off with your shrivel-hearted, ignorant negativity, Nick.
Nick’s nose is out of joint about this:
Hitler was a facist dictator. Try again, Nick.
USAF: thank you for your sevice.
He was also a leftist totalitarian vegetarian.
Nick, you got your directions all screwed up.
great comeback
WW2 wasn’t a struggle of left and right. It was nations against other nations and there were nations on the Allied side bridging the entire political spectrum.
I have been shocked by two conversations. One with an American, who refused to believe that Russia was also fighting the Germans ( or that the Russians suffered losses on a colossal scale – considerably in excess of any other Allied nation ). The other was from a Russian who insisted that the Russians stood alone in fighting against both Germany and the allies – he genuinely believed that the USA and UK were on the same side as the Germans and everybody was fighting the Russians who had to stand alone against the world.
History is frequently twisted and the same events get told entirely differently in different countries. Most nations have a tendency to gloss over their failings and celebrate their victories. Truth has often been reshaped to fit an agenda.
I am fortunate to have been taught history by amazing academics who at the time were rather unconventional. My main history teacher at school was in the process of writing history test books about WW1 and WW2 and had amassed a lot of original published material from those times. We were encouraged to read actual reports written at the time from various countries ( I can’t stress enough that these weren’t copies, they were genuine, original, historic documents written in their nation’s languages ). He would then make us think about what was being said, whether there was any contradiction or twisting of the truth ( there invariably was ) and what we can deduce from it.
That teacher’s approach to history teaching has since become quite a mainstream approach in the UK, but the principle was to locate contemporaneous accounts, scrutinise them and try and objectively assess them.
In the case of WW1, a hundred years ago, British Generals fighting in the trenches of France were using entirely the wrong tactics against machine gun emplacements and the needless loss of life was appalling. Part of the problem was that nobody dared tell those Generals the truth about how badly things were going. They predominantly told them what they expected to hear and tried to downplay the bad news. As a result, the order was always given to carry on in the same manner.
At the same time on the German side, as you might expect with the Germans, they were very thorough and organised. Each day, there was a system of reporting up, with officers being required to state what went right and crucially, what went wrong. The expectation was that they should be suggesting improvements. Not surprisingly, the British Generals kept on doing the same wrong things, while the Germans progressively learned from their mistakes, upped their game and were able to fight more effectively than their lesser numbers and resources should have allowed.
The reason why I think we need to learn from history is that on both sides of the Atlantic, we currently have governments with leaders who refuse to listen to opinions different to their own and they have no hesitation in disregarding acknowledged experts if their opinions are inconvenient. This is a very dangerous way to behave and we should all be exceedingly wary of such situations and the dangers created.
I am a Progressive who worked for Bernie Sanders last year.
I am also a Veteran of 8 years honorable service in the United States Army.
Republicans & right wingers do not own the flag, patriotism or love of country. If you go to any Veterans cemetery you will see the markers of Americans left, right and center. Spare me your lame attempt to politicize the defense of my country.
The Late Col Robert Howard as a Lt Col was my Battalion Commander at Special Troops Battalion HQ VII Corps in Germany. I had the great honor of working with him during that time. He was a political conservative, but had no problem with President Obama. IN the video attached , he is standing next to President Obama placing a wreath on the Tomb of the Unknowns on Medal of Honor Day. If Col Howard had no problem with Obama, you should not, either.
I’ll be spending Christmas in Germany this year. Part of the trip will be to visit a long-lost friend of my wife who now lives at Ulm, near Stuttgart. I would imagine that if you were based at HQ VII Corps, you probably know that area.
I’ll raise a stein to you when I’m there, or in anticipation of the weather at that time of year, maybe a cup of Gluehwein instead. Oh, to hell with it – both. Prost!
This stuff is made over in Bayreuth, but was my favorite beer back in the day. Maisel’s Weisse Kristall.
I had some of that beer when I was in Bamburg last year, coincidentally suggested by an American serviceman who was chatting to us.
Being used to traditional British beer ( which I know many don’t like ), I found it rather sweet and fizzy for my taste, but one of the great things about Germany is that there is no shortage of local German beers to suit all preferences.
Did you put a Lemon in it? The Germans usually serve it with a Lemon slice. It goes great with food.
Germans don’t serve it to other Germans with a slice of lemon in it. I suspect that it could be a thing that is done or requested when Americans order it.
I’m very partial to wheat beers ( preferably naturally fermented rather than carbonated ) and have never had lemon offered with one, nor would I want one, but there again, I prefer not to have a slice of lemon in Coke or gin & tonic.
As my wife is German, she always orders food and drink for us and obviously speaks as a native German and is treated accordingly ( which is sometimes great and other times not so good ).
DeGaulle once stated, “I want every American soldier out of France.”
Dean Rusk replied, “Does that include every American soldier buried in Normandy?”
During the Cold War Army troops in Europe were required to be able to recognize tanks and planes by their silhouette in case of war. This included both NATO and Warsaw Pact weaponry.
The joke among soldiers was that French Tanks could easily be recognized as they were the only ones with backup lights.
French citizens killed by Allied military — 60,000
Roughly as many civilians died from Allied bombing in France as from Axis bombing in the United Kingdom. Although the Allies dropped roughly 7 times the tonnage of ordinance, it avoided comparable collateral damage.
Yet they greeted the Americans as liberators and continue to honor the Allied war dead buried on their soil.
If the French hadn’t given up so easily the stats your report would be much different.
Are you f*#%ing serious?
No nation including the UK or America could have withstood the initial blitzkrieg from Nazi Germany in 1938-39. EVERY immediate adjacent country surrendered. Further military resistance would have been slaughter to noncombattants.
The UK was nearly wiped off the map at Dunkirk, saved only by the Channel and Hitler’s surprising lack of follow through. Had Hitler not opened a two front war by attacking Russia, most scholars agree that neither Russia nor the USA would have intervened and what is now the diverse peaceful EU would be all white and speaking german today.
After over a year of Churchhill’s coordination with FDR, the majority of congress was isolationist. When UK aid was finally authorized and armored convoys finally got going, the USA was over three years late to the party. The first battle that the USA fought of WW2 it should be remembered, was Pearl Harbor and the Yanks had their trousers around their ankles.
Does the world crack jokes about yank cowardice due to the war of 1812, Pearl Harbor, Korea, Vietnam, or the endless quagmire of Operation Desert Whatever? Maybe they should.
You yanks have already exhausted yourselves, stop pretending that modern Rome is easily able to defeat the hordes. You couldn’t even eliminate your Islamic State foes after over a decade of trying. You are no longer a superpower. You are a bickering house divided, living in the past, allowing yourself to be hacked by Russian propagandists. Your military strength cannot be deployed since half a dozen other nations have nukes too. Worst of all, your flaccid thinskinned leader is incapable of diplomacy. He alternately advocates extremist nationalism like Nazi Germany, then isolationism with walls, then invader, continuing the Bushian wars and sabre rattling in North Korea. Do you have a game plan or are you just hoping you don’t bankrupt yourself in the next generation?
yeah, that Imaginary….er, Maginot Line was quite the defense.
Hey dumbass: the Manigot defensive line worked as intended. That’s why Hitler invaded the Netherlands Luxembourg and Belgium, completely avoiding the French defenses along the German border.
But you cheer for a fence for your country to make you feel safe. makes one wonder what kind of genius defense your idiot presidents Mexico wall is going to do when undocumented immigrants overwhelming fly in and overstay their travel visa, easily getting hired at companies who want hard workers. Unlike chicken shits like you.
uh, Mr. History, the panzers just drove around it.
All interesting observations. I tend to agree and the sooner the USA gets its house i order the better.
Being a military buff, I found your ‘what if’ scenario interesting. Here is just one quickie assessment of that scenario: http://nationalinterest.org/feature/what-if-hitler-never-invaded-russia-during-world-war-ii-17492
I don’t completely agree with it but it provides more info than this forum easily allows. This assessment presumes that it was inevitable that Hitler would invade Russia for resources and for incompatible political views. Obviously Hitler chose to break the agreement he had with Stalin at a point when Russia was unprepared, the USA was neutral, and all of Western Europe was in Nazi control. But I agree with your assessment — if Britain was defeated and surrendered swiftly by Hitler, which was well within his ability, there would have been no US Lend-Lease Act and years of British propaganda slowly turning US public sentiment toward the plight of the Brits. Charles Lindburgh could very easily have been elected president in 1940 and as a Nazi sympathizer he would not have led the US to war against Germany. So that leaves the 1942 western eurasian landmass essentially divided between Germany and Russia. if Hitler had maintained a truce with Russia the need for oil would have been easily met by Rommel’s conquest of Africa and a rollup of British outposts in the Middle East. All very plausible had Hitler not taken his eye off the ball and launched Operation Barbarossa against the Russian giant.
How quickly people forget that they enjoy power and privilege today only due to quirks of fate of the past. It does make one tire of the braggadocio displayed by certain members of this forum.
Sherman tank driven by US: What are those two things on the back?
I hadn’t heard that joke about reversing lights being solely on French tanks, but during WW2 there was a lot of merriment directed at the Italian Autoblinda 41 armoured car, which had six forward gears and four reverse gears.
It also had four wheel steering and two driving positions, one at the front and the other at the back. If they needed to do a strategic withdrawal, the rear driving position made it possible to drive the car backwards at considerable speed without needing to turn around.
I found “Learn your History” comments very disturbing. It would be interesting to match knowledge on the subject but for what. Going to that cemetery makes all of this a waste of time. I’ve been there, like so many others, and it is deeply moving. As for most scholars, they look at the past and are poor predictors of the future. People really don’t learn much from history. They have to learn it over and over. And it’s it interesting that if it wasn’t for these “cowards” you wouldn’t be able to write what you did today. Sleep Well.
For those of you who think the USA won WW2 dream on. Germany’s Nazi’s had lost the war before the Japanese dragged you in on the “Day of Infamy”. Britain was at its weakest in July 1940. The Werhmacht, Luftwaffe, and Kriegsmarine were in no position to successfully attempt an invasion that would succeed even then after completing the French Campaign due to manpower and equipment losses and the need to re-equip, which was done at a liesurely pace. The invasion of Crete in 1941 showed what would have happened. It succeeded solely because the Germans had Air Supremacy and were able to land troops and supplies solely by air using Ju52’s but at massive cost. None of the troops sent by sea from Occupied Greece to Crete made it there alive, those that did washed up dead as the Royal Navy made sure of it, with grievious losses. The defeat of the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Brtitain in 1940 was a British strategic victory following the horrific defeat in France and evacuation from Dunkirk. Had the Germans been able to wear down the RAF to attempt an invasion, the Royal Navy (still the largest in the World at the time even if with many obsolete and vulnerable ships) would have steamed down the North and Irish Seas and annihilated the Invasion fleet the Germans were cobbling together. Compare the amateur attempts of the German Navy to do it compared to what was needed in “Overlord”. Their largest ships were the battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneiesenau, whose 11″ guns were peashooters to the 15″ guns of the Royal Navy. Before the end of 1940 Hitler had decided the route to London was through Moscow, and he was doomed when he launched “Barbarossa”. As were 6 million Jews, 30 Million Russians and countless others. It’s inconceivable a pro German US President could have been elected in 1940. Unfortunately, the UK used its entire wealth defending the world against the Germans twice. We didn’t finish paying for the first one until 1960 and not until recently did we clear the 2nd World War debt. The immediate main beneficiaries were the US and USSR and in the not too distant future Germany and China.
So the US Lend-Lease Act didn’t tip the scales in favor of UK survival? The US donated to the UK over US$30 billion in aid (both food and munitions)starting in 1941. Only UK historians believe the UK could have stood on its own. Other historians believe that the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine would have prevailed in destroying the UK’s air and sea defenses if Hitler hand not turned away his attention in late 1940 before the job was done. Resources needed to knock the UK out of the war were redeployed to attack Russia, the U boat wolf packs that held sway over critical Atlantic shipping was redeployed to Norway. That was the tipping point.
While the UK Navy was strong in defending the island, it was wholly incapable of maintaining much needed imports to feed the UK. The UK fleet was not effective in eliminating German U boats in the Atlantic and ship loss statistics showed the U boats were chipping away at the British merchant fleet. Without US and Canadian aid convoys, the UK was facing starvation and humanitarian crisis. Despite the popular public speeches, Churchill’s greatest accomplishment was in his desperate petitioning of the USA, Canada, and others for aid.
Excuse me but we had to pay you back for that. It did a great job in helping defeat the Germans but it cost us dearly. The US did not “donate” and some of the debt still exists in low interest bonds IIRC. “Other historians believe that the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine would have prevailed in destroying the UK’s air and sea defenses if Hitler hand not turned away his attention in late 1940 before the job was done.” Er, if you read the the books, the Kriegsmarine was pretty cool about attempting an invasion. The Surface Fleet, though modern would not have been able to support it without being destroyed. I suggest you read “Sink the Bismarck” by Ludovic Kennedy. One Torpedo from an ancient biplane turned her from a formidable foe to a sitting duck. I’ve met one of the aircrew. The only thing that could have defeated us was the U-Boats. I have one answer – Ultra. Visit Bletchley Park. “The resources needed to knock the UK out of the war were redeployed to attack Russia” Er the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe where twiddling their fingers in France in 1941 besides being busy in the Balkans. Had it not been for Churchill wanting to help the Greeks against Italy, we would have kicked the Italians out of North Africa before the Africa Korps could have been deployed, then there was Malta. There were never enough U-Boats. Casualties were appalling once the techniques were developed including using that same antique biplane that disabled the Bismarck. Again look to breaking Enigma with Ultra which was done by the Poles, the French and the UK (You can discount U-571 – that was our achievement not yours)
“Without US and Canadian aid convoys, the UK was facing starvation and humanitarian crisis.” Excuse me we paid for these in the long run and they were used for transporting US and Canadian materiel as well. “Despite the popular public speeches, Churchill’s greatest accomplishment was in his desperate petitioning of the USA, Canada, and others for aid.” The only people we had to petition was Roosevelt who was sympathetic and wanted to help but had his hands tied. The others joined voluntarily. It took Japan and Hitler’s declaration of war to untie them and let loose “the arsenal of Democracy, all paid for by us btw. This isn’t to say we aren’t grateful, but just get a sense of proportion. 22 miles of water is difficult to cross. and by 1941 we had recovered enough to repel a further attack & go on the Offensive. 1942 was the crisis year but by the end there’d been Midway, El Alamein and Stalingrad. Just remember those pesky Ruskies did a lot of the hard work.
Oh, Alanaudio, stop parrotting the crap that the British Generals in WW1 pursued the same tactics from 1914-18. In 1914 the BEF was 100K strong and was almost wiped out trying to stop the German Advance. Observation by british aviators helped spot the division of German Forces which led to the Battle of the Marne, the race to the sea and stalemate. The next four years were a continuous period of trying new tactics to break through the Germans Line, who were DEFENDING. From 1915 when Haig took over, the British Army in France learnt to fight the first major industrial war in history and with the Naval Blockade, (Jutland kept the German Fleet in Port) and btw the RN was ready to steam for sea far quickly than the Germans afterwards) laid the grounds for the U Boat war which brought the US in again late in 1917. The Somme and Verdun bled the Germans dry and in between the British Army developed into the Finest Army of the time using all arms (Remember Tanks? Artillery and Aircraft?). Once the Germans fought themselves to a standstill after their all or nothing assaults to capture Amiens and defeat the Allies in 1918, where the AEF fought the tactics of 1914 and goty slaughtered despite Allied attempts to help, it was the British Army 100 day Offensive that captured more weapons and prisoners than the other allies combined before the Armistice. And at what cost to this country? We certainly didn’t benefit for or receive the credit either. Its going tyo be interesting seeing the media explain the Allies actually won WW1 by force of arms next year.
Thanks Tim, have visited D-Day coast twice for extended period, sobering experience, genuine hero’s. perhaps some of our neo national socialists should visit and ponder the cost of freedom
Agreed about the American cemetery. It is very sobering. Take the time to visit the other cemeteries and monuments in France too. Many more valiant young soldiers lost from many nations. The fight for freedom isn’t just an American effort.
Not sure I understand the point of the comment about national socialists. Some on this board don’t understand at all what these terms mean. Hitler was socialist in name only. All modern nations have mixed economic models, including the USA from the very start. The Continental Army was a federal program for the social good that replaced the marginally effective disjointed militias (which were social programs on a smaller ununified scale).
Enlightened people realize that a more collaborative “socialist” approach produces good outcomes. centuries of war proved again and again that competition to the point of conflict is a game nobody wins. Undemocratic corporatism hoards wealth worse than the feudal system that the USA once rebelled against. Patriots were liberals.
Trump and the alt right attempt to discredit all social programs of any time but they are required. Fire stations, libraries, public parks… All social and all make us happier and healthier. I served and am not ashamed to say that the military is also a socialist concept. It’s the biggest federal program of all. You can’t support the troops and then whine about socialism. You think botvinnik actually served? His hero Trump didn’t.
@USAF retired
– I originally started by reply with a comment about how using terms like “neo national socialists” tend to obscure rather than enlighten because people either writing or reading tend to make false assumptions about what those terms actually mean. That’s why I changed it to starting by saying that it was never a left-right struggle, even though some people persist in trying to frame it in those terms.
If you check Medicaid/Medicare and Social security are way larger then the defense department.
:).
“If you check Medicaid/Medicare and Social security are way larger then the defense department.”
Medicare and Social Security are insurance programs funded by premiums collected as special taxes. They are not entitlements and are not funded from general revenue.
Imagine that, two entirely separate programs added up to be larger than the one defence department.
Neither did your heroine, Felonia von Pantsuit.
Nor did The Muslim Usurper or Horndog Billy.
For how many years are you going to default to “What about Clinton”?
Yet another symptom of senility… “When ah wuz yung, there was this darkie who tricked his way into being President for a while.”
It’s all this loon has to offer. His extremist faction has zero accomplishments and the idiots of the administration have made a complete mockery of the duties they are supposed to accomplish. So naturally the mentally deficient fan club has to put up a straw figure to knock down with the weakest of logic. Watching botty shadow box would be entertaining if it wasn’t so tragic for the future of the USA.
Public polls show that the Republican party is disliked and untrusted even moreso than the inept Democrats:
Click to access poll.-.parties.and.2018.pdf.pdf
Just about any lady in a pantsuit would do a better job than Tweet-and-Putt-in-Chief.
Were women allowed in your military when this person you call Felonia would have been of age to serve?
I didn’t think so.
She was like, you know, climbing Mount Everest at the time with her namesake, Edmund Hillary, dodging sniper fire…just ask Brian Williams, he was there. For sure, man.
dolts.
…then, she and Harvey Weinstein sang hymns together…man, it was poignant.
USAF retired, blowing hot air. Hitler was a socialist, as was Stalin. Your “enlightened” and “collaborative” approach involves misery for all. No one on the right is trying to discredit the military, libraries, public parks, or fire stations, LOL. You leftists are such propagandists, way to take a dump on something we could all laud Tim Cook for. By the way, the USAF is the most SJW-converged cesspool in the military.
Oh, fuck off with your shrivel-hearted, ignorant negativity, Nick.
Nick’s nose is out of joint about this:
Hitler was a facist dictator. Try again, Nick.
USAF: thank you for your sevice.
He was also a leftist totalitarian vegetarian.
Nick, you got your directions all screwed up.
great comeback
WW2 wasn’t a struggle of left and right. It was nations against other nations and there were nations on the Allied side bridging the entire political spectrum.
I have been shocked by two conversations. One with an American, who refused to believe that Russia was also fighting the Germans ( or that the Russians suffered losses on a colossal scale – considerably in excess of any other Allied nation ). The other was from a Russian who insisted that the Russians stood alone in fighting against both Germany and the allies – he genuinely believed that the USA and UK were on the same side as the Germans and everybody was fighting the Russians who had to stand alone against the world.
History is frequently twisted and the same events get told entirely differently in different countries. Most nations have a tendency to gloss over their failings and celebrate their victories. Truth has often been reshaped to fit an agenda.
I am fortunate to have been taught history by amazing academics who at the time were rather unconventional. My main history teacher at school was in the process of writing history test books about WW1 and WW2 and had amassed a lot of original published material from those times. We were encouraged to read actual reports written at the time from various countries ( I can’t stress enough that these weren’t copies, they were genuine, original, historic documents written in their nation’s languages ). He would then make us think about what was being said, whether there was any contradiction or twisting of the truth ( there invariably was ) and what we can deduce from it.
That teacher’s approach to history teaching has since become quite a mainstream approach in the UK, but the principle was to locate contemporaneous accounts, scrutinise them and try and objectively assess them.
In the case of WW1, a hundred years ago, British Generals fighting in the trenches of France were using entirely the wrong tactics against machine gun emplacements and the needless loss of life was appalling. Part of the problem was that nobody dared tell those Generals the truth about how badly things were going. They predominantly told them what they expected to hear and tried to downplay the bad news. As a result, the order was always given to carry on in the same manner.
At the same time on the German side, as you might expect with the Germans, they were very thorough and organised. Each day, there was a system of reporting up, with officers being required to state what went right and crucially, what went wrong. The expectation was that they should be suggesting improvements. Not surprisingly, the British Generals kept on doing the same wrong things, while the Germans progressively learned from their mistakes, upped their game and were able to fight more effectively than their lesser numbers and resources should have allowed.
The reason why I think we need to learn from history is that on both sides of the Atlantic, we currently have governments with leaders who refuse to listen to opinions different to their own and they have no hesitation in disregarding acknowledged experts if their opinions are inconvenient. This is a very dangerous way to behave and we should all be exceedingly wary of such situations and the dangers created.
I am a Progressive who worked for Bernie Sanders last year.
I am also a Veteran of 8 years honorable service in the United States Army.
Republicans & right wingers do not own the flag, patriotism or love of country. If you go to any Veterans cemetery you will see the markers of Americans left, right and center. Spare me your lame attempt to politicize the defense of my country.
The Late Col Robert Howard as a Lt Col was my Battalion Commander at Special Troops Battalion HQ VII Corps in Germany. I had the great honor of working with him during that time. He was a political conservative, but had no problem with President Obama. IN the video attached , he is standing next to President Obama placing a wreath on the Tomb of the Unknowns on Medal of Honor Day. If Col Howard had no problem with Obama, you should not, either.
I’ll be spending Christmas in Germany this year. Part of the trip will be to visit a long-lost friend of my wife who now lives at Ulm, near Stuttgart. I would imagine that if you were based at HQ VII Corps, you probably know that area.
I’ll raise a stein to you when I’m there, or in anticipation of the weather at that time of year, maybe a cup of Gluehwein instead. Oh, to hell with it – both. Prost!
This stuff is made over in Bayreuth, but was my favorite beer back in the day. Maisel’s Weisse Kristall.
I had some of that beer when I was in Bamburg last year, coincidentally suggested by an American serviceman who was chatting to us.
Being used to traditional British beer ( which I know many don’t like ), I found it rather sweet and fizzy for my taste, but one of the great things about Germany is that there is no shortage of local German beers to suit all preferences.
Did you put a Lemon in it? The Germans usually serve it with a Lemon slice. It goes great with food.
Germans don’t serve it to other Germans with a slice of lemon in it. I suspect that it could be a thing that is done or requested when Americans order it.
I’m very partial to wheat beers ( preferably naturally fermented rather than carbonated ) and have never had lemon offered with one, nor would I want one, but there again, I prefer not to have a slice of lemon in Coke or gin & tonic.
As my wife is German, she always orders food and drink for us and obviously speaks as a native German and is treated accordingly ( which is sometimes great and other times not so good ).
DeGaulle once stated, “I want every American soldier out of France.”
Dean Rusk replied, “Does that include every American soldier buried in Normandy?”
hence…
“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man.”
Mark Twain
During the Cold War Army troops in Europe were required to be able to recognize tanks and planes by their silhouette in case of war. This included both NATO and Warsaw Pact weaponry.
The joke among soldiers was that French Tanks could easily be recognized as they were the only ones with backup lights.
Interesting World War II statistic:
French citizens killed in the Holocaust — 100,000
French citizens killed by Axis military — 100,000
French citizens killed by Allied military — 60,000
Roughly as many civilians died from Allied bombing in France as from Axis bombing in the United Kingdom. Although the Allies dropped roughly 7 times the tonnage of ordinance, it avoided comparable collateral damage.
Yet they greeted the Americans as liberators and continue to honor the Allied war dead buried on their soil.
If the French hadn’t given up so easily the stats your report would be much different.
Are you f*#%ing serious?
No nation including the UK or America could have withstood the initial blitzkrieg from Nazi Germany in 1938-39. EVERY immediate adjacent country surrendered. Further military resistance would have been slaughter to noncombattants.
The UK was nearly wiped off the map at Dunkirk, saved only by the Channel and Hitler’s surprising lack of follow through. Had Hitler not opened a two front war by attacking Russia, most scholars agree that neither Russia nor the USA would have intervened and what is now the diverse peaceful EU would be all white and speaking german today.
After over a year of Churchhill’s coordination with FDR, the majority of congress was isolationist. When UK aid was finally authorized and armored convoys finally got going, the USA was over three years late to the party. The first battle that the USA fought of WW2 it should be remembered, was Pearl Harbor and the Yanks had their trousers around their ankles.
Does the world crack jokes about yank cowardice due to the war of 1812, Pearl Harbor, Korea, Vietnam, or the endless quagmire of Operation Desert Whatever? Maybe they should.
You yanks have already exhausted yourselves, stop pretending that modern Rome is easily able to defeat the hordes. You couldn’t even eliminate your Islamic State foes after over a decade of trying. You are no longer a superpower. You are a bickering house divided, living in the past, allowing yourself to be hacked by Russian propagandists. Your military strength cannot be deployed since half a dozen other nations have nukes too. Worst of all, your flaccid thinskinned leader is incapable of diplomacy. He alternately advocates extremist nationalism like Nazi Germany, then isolationism with walls, then invader, continuing the Bushian wars and sabre rattling in North Korea. Do you have a game plan or are you just hoping you don’t bankrupt yourself in the next generation?
yeah, that Imaginary….er, Maginot Line was quite the defense.
Hey dumbass: the Manigot defensive line worked as intended. That’s why Hitler invaded the Netherlands Luxembourg and Belgium, completely avoiding the French defenses along the German border.
But you cheer for a fence for your country to make you feel safe. makes one wonder what kind of genius defense your idiot presidents Mexico wall is going to do when undocumented immigrants overwhelming fly in and overstay their travel visa, easily getting hired at companies who want hard workers. Unlike chicken shits like you.
uh, Mr. History, the panzers just drove around it.
All interesting observations. I tend to agree and the sooner the USA gets its house i order the better.
Being a military buff, I found your ‘what if’ scenario interesting. Here is just one quickie assessment of that scenario: http://nationalinterest.org/feature/what-if-hitler-never-invaded-russia-during-world-war-ii-17492
I don’t completely agree with it but it provides more info than this forum easily allows. This assessment presumes that it was inevitable that Hitler would invade Russia for resources and for incompatible political views. Obviously Hitler chose to break the agreement he had with Stalin at a point when Russia was unprepared, the USA was neutral, and all of Western Europe was in Nazi control. But I agree with your assessment — if Britain was defeated and surrendered swiftly by Hitler, which was well within his ability, there would have been no US Lend-Lease Act and years of British propaganda slowly turning US public sentiment toward the plight of the Brits. Charles Lindburgh could very easily have been elected president in 1940 and as a Nazi sympathizer he would not have led the US to war against Germany. So that leaves the 1942 western eurasian landmass essentially divided between Germany and Russia. if Hitler had maintained a truce with Russia the need for oil would have been easily met by Rommel’s conquest of Africa and a rollup of British outposts in the Middle East. All very plausible had Hitler not taken his eye off the ball and launched Operation Barbarossa against the Russian giant.
How quickly people forget that they enjoy power and privilege today only due to quirks of fate of the past. It does make one tire of the braggadocio displayed by certain members of this forum.
Sherman tank driven by US: What are those two things on the back?
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.HLUvDKBDptlhKxzt1Z8QxQEsDi%26pid%3D15.1&f=1
heh….what do French children say at Halloween?
“trick or retreat.”
I hadn’t heard that joke about reversing lights being solely on French tanks, but during WW2 there was a lot of merriment directed at the Italian Autoblinda 41 armoured car, which had six forward gears and four reverse gears.
It also had four wheel steering and two driving positions, one at the front and the other at the back. If they needed to do a strategic withdrawal, the rear driving position made it possible to drive the car backwards at considerable speed without needing to turn around.
I found “Learn your History” comments very disturbing. It would be interesting to match knowledge on the subject but for what. Going to that cemetery makes all of this a waste of time. I’ve been there, like so many others, and it is deeply moving. As for most scholars, they look at the past and are poor predictors of the future. People really don’t learn much from history. They have to learn it over and over. And it’s it interesting that if it wasn’t for these “cowards” you wouldn’t be able to write what you did today. Sleep Well.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to be libtards.”
For those of you who think the USA won WW2 dream on. Germany’s Nazi’s had lost the war before the Japanese dragged you in on the “Day of Infamy”. Britain was at its weakest in July 1940. The Werhmacht, Luftwaffe, and Kriegsmarine were in no position to successfully attempt an invasion that would succeed even then after completing the French Campaign due to manpower and equipment losses and the need to re-equip, which was done at a liesurely pace. The invasion of Crete in 1941 showed what would have happened. It succeeded solely because the Germans had Air Supremacy and were able to land troops and supplies solely by air using Ju52’s but at massive cost. None of the troops sent by sea from Occupied Greece to Crete made it there alive, those that did washed up dead as the Royal Navy made sure of it, with grievious losses. The defeat of the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Brtitain in 1940 was a British strategic victory following the horrific defeat in France and evacuation from Dunkirk. Had the Germans been able to wear down the RAF to attempt an invasion, the Royal Navy (still the largest in the World at the time even if with many obsolete and vulnerable ships) would have steamed down the North and Irish Seas and annihilated the Invasion fleet the Germans were cobbling together. Compare the amateur attempts of the German Navy to do it compared to what was needed in “Overlord”. Their largest ships were the battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneiesenau, whose 11″ guns were peashooters to the 15″ guns of the Royal Navy. Before the end of 1940 Hitler had decided the route to London was through Moscow, and he was doomed when he launched “Barbarossa”. As were 6 million Jews, 30 Million Russians and countless others. It’s inconceivable a pro German US President could have been elected in 1940. Unfortunately, the UK used its entire wealth defending the world against the Germans twice. We didn’t finish paying for the first one until 1960 and not until recently did we clear the 2nd World War debt. The immediate main beneficiaries were the US and USSR and in the not too distant future Germany and China.
So the US Lend-Lease Act didn’t tip the scales in favor of UK survival? The US donated to the UK over US$30 billion in aid (both food and munitions)starting in 1941. Only UK historians believe the UK could have stood on its own. Other historians believe that the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine would have prevailed in destroying the UK’s air and sea defenses if Hitler hand not turned away his attention in late 1940 before the job was done. Resources needed to knock the UK out of the war were redeployed to attack Russia, the U boat wolf packs that held sway over critical Atlantic shipping was redeployed to Norway. That was the tipping point.
While the UK Navy was strong in defending the island, it was wholly incapable of maintaining much needed imports to feed the UK. The UK fleet was not effective in eliminating German U boats in the Atlantic and ship loss statistics showed the U boats were chipping away at the British merchant fleet. Without US and Canadian aid convoys, the UK was facing starvation and humanitarian crisis. Despite the popular public speeches, Churchill’s greatest accomplishment was in his desperate petitioning of the USA, Canada, and others for aid.
Excuse me but we had to pay you back for that. It did a great job in helping defeat the Germans but it cost us dearly. The US did not “donate” and some of the debt still exists in low interest bonds IIRC. “Other historians believe that the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine would have prevailed in destroying the UK’s air and sea defenses if Hitler hand not turned away his attention in late 1940 before the job was done.” Er, if you read the the books, the Kriegsmarine was pretty cool about attempting an invasion. The Surface Fleet, though modern would not have been able to support it without being destroyed. I suggest you read “Sink the Bismarck” by Ludovic Kennedy. One Torpedo from an ancient biplane turned her from a formidable foe to a sitting duck. I’ve met one of the aircrew. The only thing that could have defeated us was the U-Boats. I have one answer – Ultra. Visit Bletchley Park. “The resources needed to knock the UK out of the war were redeployed to attack Russia” Er the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe where twiddling their fingers in France in 1941 besides being busy in the Balkans. Had it not been for Churchill wanting to help the Greeks against Italy, we would have kicked the Italians out of North Africa before the Africa Korps could have been deployed, then there was Malta. There were never enough U-Boats. Casualties were appalling once the techniques were developed including using that same antique biplane that disabled the Bismarck. Again look to breaking Enigma with Ultra which was done by the Poles, the French and the UK (You can discount U-571 – that was our achievement not yours)
“Without US and Canadian aid convoys, the UK was facing starvation and humanitarian crisis.” Excuse me we paid for these in the long run and they were used for transporting US and Canadian materiel as well. “Despite the popular public speeches, Churchill’s greatest accomplishment was in his desperate petitioning of the USA, Canada, and others for aid.” The only people we had to petition was Roosevelt who was sympathetic and wanted to help but had his hands tied. The others joined voluntarily. It took Japan and Hitler’s declaration of war to untie them and let loose “the arsenal of Democracy, all paid for by us btw. This isn’t to say we aren’t grateful, but just get a sense of proportion. 22 miles of water is difficult to cross. and by 1941 we had recovered enough to repel a further attack & go on the Offensive. 1942 was the crisis year but by the end there’d been Midway, El Alamein and Stalingrad. Just remember those pesky Ruskies did a lot of the hard work.
Oh, Alanaudio, stop parrotting the crap that the British Generals in WW1 pursued the same tactics from 1914-18. In 1914 the BEF was 100K strong and was almost wiped out trying to stop the German Advance. Observation by british aviators helped spot the division of German Forces which led to the Battle of the Marne, the race to the sea and stalemate. The next four years were a continuous period of trying new tactics to break through the Germans Line, who were DEFENDING. From 1915 when Haig took over, the British Army in France learnt to fight the first major industrial war in history and with the Naval Blockade, (Jutland kept the German Fleet in Port) and btw the RN was ready to steam for sea far quickly than the Germans afterwards) laid the grounds for the U Boat war which brought the US in again late in 1917. The Somme and Verdun bled the Germans dry and in between the British Army developed into the Finest Army of the time using all arms (Remember Tanks? Artillery and Aircraft?). Once the Germans fought themselves to a standstill after their all or nothing assaults to capture Amiens and defeat the Allies in 1918, where the AEF fought the tactics of 1914 and goty slaughtered despite Allied attempts to help, it was the British Army 100 day Offensive that captured more weapons and prisoners than the other allies combined before the Armistice. And at what cost to this country? We certainly didn’t benefit for or receive the credit either. Its going tyo be interesting seeing the media explain the Allies actually won WW1 by force of arms next year.