“Apple’s Mac team has ‘lost clout’ with the company’s industrial design group and software team, claims a new report, arguing that Cupertino has ‘alienated Mac loyalists,'” Luke Dormehl reports for Cult of Mac. “The picture painted by the article is of a division with a lack of clear direction from senior management, departures of key employees, and technical challenges — all conspiring to make the Mac one of Apple’s forgotten divisions.”
“The Bloomberg article notes that ever since last year’s reshuffle of Apple’s design team, meetings between the Mac team and the industrial design team have become less frequent,” Dormehl reports. “A similar thing happened with a reorganization of the software engineering department, which no longer separates macOS and iOS — and therefore invests most of its engineers’ time on the more profitable iOS.”
“As for the internal turmoil in the division, the article observes that more than a dozen engineers and managers working on the Mac have left over the past 18 months, with at least a sizable percentage put off by their lack of clarity about the ‘future of Mac hardware,'” Dormehl reports. “One possible problem is the lack of a singular vision driving the division. Instead of having one concept to work on, increasingly engineers are — in the words of one source — ‘asked to develop multiple options in hopes that one of them will be shippable.’ The result is that resources become more thinly spread than ever, while products ship later.”
Read more in the full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Here’s wishing Cupertino gets a clue in their Christmas stocking this year.
SEE ALSO:
Marco Arment: Apple’s Mac Pro is ‘very likely dead’ – December 20, 2016
How Tim Cook’s Apple alienated Mac loyalists – December 20, 2016
Apple’s not very good, really quite poor 2016 – December 19, 2016
Apple’s software has been anything but ‘magical’ lately – December 19, 2016
Lazy Apple. It’s not hard to imagine Steve Jobs asking, ‘What have you been doing for the last four years?’ – December 9, 2016
Apple may have finally gotten too big for its unusual corporate structure – November 28, 2016
Apple has no idea what they’re doing in the TV space, and it’s embarrassing – November 3, 2016
Apple’s disgracefully outdated, utterly mismanaged Mac lineup is killing sales – October 13, 2016
Apple takes its eye off the ball: Why users are complaining about Apple’s software – February 9, 2016
Open letter to Tim Cook: Apple needs to do better – January 5, 2015
Don’t know about you but I feel like smacking some of the higher ups & design-precious at Apple upside the head. Hopefully waking them up. Probably should do it in any case for them letting things get this out of hand, even if not true.
I think the fact that Tim was responding to an employee question about the “future of the Mac” speaks volumes. If an employee asks the question, that means even internally there are serious doubts. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next iMac only gets modest spec bump and is even less upgradable. And yeah the Mac Pro is likely dead IMO.
When (hopefully) a new Mac Pro or similar get released, anyone saying “told you so” or “good things come to wait” or the patronizing “patience, padawan” that MDN likes to spew, can get stuffed.
Patience is fine if you’re meditating and improving yourself. It is not applicable when your work tools fall behind so far that your competitors can produce stuff twice as fast as you can.
Waiting over 3 years for a new Pro (and even longer for those waiting for a decent tower), is not “rewarding patience”, it’s blatant abuse of trust. Trust is earned, and Apple has squandered literally decades of it by keeping the pro market hanging for this long.
Stuff you
Just stop, Kingmel. You have nothing to contribute to this conversation except for “stuff you”? Really? No wonder you’rr viewed so negatively on here.
“Stuff you”. That is your response ? Melvin, you’re a bad joke. Please go away.
Mossman – you hit the nail on the head. Nicely put.
No! Stuff you, you pathetic blind Apple fanboy! 🐂💩
AustinX – Exactly!
When employees are questioning the future of the Mac you KNOW that Apple’s nice public comments about the Mac are baloney.
I am afraid the only reason Tim Cook wrote about supporting the Mac was because he knew the Bloomberg piece was about to be published. (Bloomberg asked for comment ahead of publication). He did not want the Mac abandoned before users had switched to iPads.
Unfortunately, even when Apple does introduce new Macs it appears that they didn’t have their heart in it. Instead they look like greedy attempts to keep customers spending money while Apple waits for the world to switch to the iPad.
Some examples:
Leaving the MacBook Air with 8gb of ram and a low resolution screen. This is the most popular Mac and they totally neglect it.
Choosing low end graphic cards for most of their offerings. Limiting application performance. Then Apple brags that the iPad Pro has better graphics performance. Of course, and we know the reason why!
Outrageous prices for SSD (Flash Storage). SSD’s totally revolutionize the computing experience. If Apple wanted people to have a GREAT experience with the Mac they would get the prices down near Amazon prices. Instead they jack up price on the Mac in comparison to the iPad.
Machines that cannot be upgraded – soldered ram and disk drives. This combined with outrageous ssd prices has seriously damaged Mac sales. Not everyone has $2,400 laying around. A significant percentage of Mac users initially purchased a Mac and then over time upgraded the ram and storage as they had cash. This is no longer possible. Unfortunately, for Apple these users did not switch to iPads.
Problem is, a large percentage of the Mac users that Tim wants to switch to the iPad, can’t.
They can’t because they need a bigger screen, access to a file system and pro apps.
My big worry is Adobe. If Apple defocus on the desktop, and expect us all to use an underpowered laptop connect to a monitor, we’re gonna switch to Windows.
If enough of us do that, then it’s only a matter of time before they dump the mac platform.
Whether Tim likes it or not, nobody is going to switch from Mac to iPad, whilst there’s a perfectly serviceable, upgradeable and flexible platform to switch to.
Yes it runs Windows and Windows is still the buggy mess it always was, but he is leaving us with no alternative.
Apple is on a suicide mission. …
Without seriouse Macs and MacPros…. the brand’s and platform’s credibilty will go up in smoke faster than most can imagine.
something is seriously wrong at Apple…. wrong and massivly shortsighted.
Add on top the dismal AI engine ….even at the most basic of levels, spellcheck.
so where is Apple headed? ………..given their direction and pace………. six feet under …..
very sad and disturbing !
yup ..im 100% with you.. ..they need a massive smacking……
Boombard Apple with your concerns.. everyone…. . DO IT.
That’s what people have been saying for years. Tim Cook is decimating Apple and enabling incompetents to ruin Apple’s good name.
We’ve seen this before: John Sculley. This is exactly what Sculley did, and Apple was almost bankrupt after 8 years of his ruinous rule.
Steve Jobs said it best in his bio about Tim Cook: “BUT… he’s not a product guy.”
Apple died with Steve Jobs. I still use their products, but as time passes, things are eclipsing them, like the MS Studio PC.
johnny Ive was supposed to be the guy to keep the product focus. That is how Jobs set it up. Unfortunately he is too busy designing Christmas trees to have any time for Apple products these days.
Perhaps should have a Mac subsidiary, for macOS, computers, and all related software and hardware. needs employees dedicated full time to all things MAC!!! 🖖😀⌚️
“…“As for the internal turmoil in the division, the article observes that more than a dozen engineers and managers working on the Mac have left over the past 18 months, with at least a sizable percentage put off by their lack of clarity about the ‘future of Mac hardware,’” Dormehl reports…”
It shows.
This is sad. I like the integration of the Mac with iOS, but if they continue the neglect of the platform my next desktops will have to be Windows. But that won’t be for years so there’s time to right the ship.
“…One possible problem is the lack of a singular vision driving the division. Instead of having one concept to work on, increasingly engineers are — in the words of one source — “asked to develop multiple options in hopes that one of them will be shippable.” The result is that resources become more thinly spread than ever, while products ship later…”
This is the Samsung methodology… aka “Keep tossing shit out there and see what attracts flies.”
Fscking stupid. Finally…finally get to the point where people take the Mac seriously….after so much effort..and they just let it go. Mac users are the ones who kept the company alive. Mac users are the ones who sold the platform to their friends/teachers/relatives. Mac users are the reason Apple sold iPhones. Don’t diss the Mac user. We will diss you back.
iPhone users are what keep apple alive. Apple was tiny until they released that.
They are a phone/contentdigestiondevice company now.
everyone could stop buy macs right now, it would not hurt apple in the slightest.
especially since you can run Swift on Windows now… all you need to keep pumping out pointless apps forever…
Without X-Code and Mac OS, Swift is worthless.
Real Coders use Assembly.
Dinosaurs code in assembly language
No, actually, it was the iPod that blew them up, the iPhone rode the momentum from that, and if you think all you need to be a developer is Swift, you clearly aren’t one.
Mac users are the ones who >> KEPT << the company alive.
There was a time us old timers remember when where was no iPod and no iPhone, No IOS. It was Apple Computer. Mac users kept the company alive long enough to invent all that other insanely great stuff.
And the Mac is STILL the anchor in the digital hub for all that stuff that ties the ecosystem together.
Once more, with emphasis Timber Has Got To Go!
Damn Straight! You Board Members tell Mr. Tim Cook he better wake the hell up and get back on track or he will lose his job!!!
No one has lost more clout with Mac consumers than Jony Ive and his disciples. The trendy light-grey-on-dark-grey color scheme has made vast wastelands of text illegible, and his emphasis on form over function is killing those of us who actually use these things. I really wish he would just go away and let Mac be Mac.
Unlike when Steve Jobs was alive, it seems that Apple and Cook can only do one task at a time when it comes to their hardware and software. They seem to have a one track and stay with the sure bets instead of having imagination about the future of computing.
I also think that Ives has gotten a big head and has somehow convinced cook and the others that the Mac may not be as important to Apple as it once was.
You cannot compare their situations. Steve Jobs did not have to manage an Apple of this size, and he relied on Tim to deal with a lot of things so he wouldn’t have to.
The problem is that the organizational structure was set up to manage a relatively small enterprise with only a few products. Management needs to re-think that structure.
They also need to kick Johnny Ive in the balls and remind him that great design is about a product meeting users needs.
Apple doesn’t get any more of my money. Just picked up the Surface 4, i7, 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD, bundled with keyboard, pen, 1 year sub. office 365, skype, free AV, all for a little over 1400. Bye bye Apple as far as pro products go, since there are no more.
The surface isn’t a “pro” product.
More pro than the new MBP with the funny little candy strip.
That “funny little candy strip” is quite a nice feature and nicely done too. Yesterday, I set up a friend’s new MBP, trying out the strip for the 1st time. That strip has tremendous upside, especially as 3rd party developers modify their apps to support it. And surprisingly, I like the keyboard feel…didn’t think I would. My only gripe, and a significant one, is the lack of upgradability to the SSD and RAM. To me those 2 are contentious concerns I have.
Not if you are using an external display, then the touch bar is literally useless. This has been billed as a pro machine, and an awful lot of professional work will negate the touch bar altogether. I’d imagine it will show up in other form factors, but I can’t see it having much longevity long-term, it’s a stop-gap.
once again you go too far, trondude.
The MBP is a good laptop. The problem is, it’s not great, and it’s not worthy of the Pro name.
This is my biggest gripe. Macs no longer stand out ahead of the competition. The hardware forces the user into limitations and tradeoffs and MacOS has been dumbed down since Snow Leopard to force the flaky iCloud onto users. The PRO name slapped on Apple products no longer means anything.
The Mac community has waited a long time for a solid product updates and Apple no longer delivers on that promise. All evidence shows the current Apple leadership has no clue how foundational the Mac is to the health of the Apple ecosystem. Cook and Ive have done immeasurable damage to the Mac brand by focusing on high-margin compromised fashion machines instead of high-margin performance machines that just work.
Let’s hope it’s not to late for their successors to reinvigorate the Mac lineup with a well-designed array of Macs from inexpensive to cutting edge workstation — both consumer and PRO.
Hints to Ive and his remaining minions who are authorized to work on Macs:
– if you force an engineer to cut battery capacity so you can shave another millimeter off the thickness of your gadget, IT AIN’T A PRO PRODUCT.
– if you change the screen size but make no fundamental OS capability enhancements to meet the needs of users who rely on interconnectivity and a real file system — IT AIN’T A PRO PRODUCT.
– if users have no way to increase RAM, replace or add internal hard drives, upgrade to the latest GPUs, etc as their needs change and in the huge gaps between Apple’s substantial updates — IT AIN’T A PRO PRODUCT.
– If your desktop machine is so thin that the CPU is speed throttled because of thermal limitations — IT AIN’T A PRO PRODUCT.
– if your new gadget forces the buyer to invest in multiple adapters, breakout boxes, external card readers, cables, and so forth in order to use the industry-standard peripherals that he and his clients already use everyday — IT AIN’T A PRO PRODUCT.
– if Apple’s software or hardware adds new constraints less flexible or intuitive than what Mac owers used previously, or if legacy Mac users are told to accept the incremental degradation/stagnation of GUI, file system, and hardware flexibility — IT AIN’T A PRO PRODUCT.
The reason that AAPL continues to stagnate is because investors correctly see that Apple is being turned into a one-trick pony. iPhone-iOS-iCloud-subscriptions is the one sphere Cook cares about. Focusing exclusively on that led to impressive short term gains, but it foretells Apple’s decline in the long term. If Apple can’t make competitive Macs, Airports, Displays, pro level software, etc, then complacency has already set in.
BRAVO! Totally agree Mike
I recently installed and am using windows 10, thought id hate it as 8 was horrible, win ten is actually good, apple better look out, we have one pc and one imac in our household, best os used to be mac, not anymore. Love my ipads, iphone 7 plus, but im not switching my last pc out for another imac anytime soon the way the company is going….
you are not alone in that thought Lawrance.
by taking theses stupid shortsighted direction… Apple will kill the whole eco sys, the one thing they have going for them now… synergy between all devices.
Remove the workhorse from the picture….. leave gigantic holes in the product line. .. and . i (and i believe many ) will have little reason to stick to the brand/platform anymore.
“Remove the workhorse from the picture”
The workhorse…or the truck
“But…but….but…. can’t you move that 80,000 lb load with a bicycle, or a solar powered go-cart? You just have to believe………”
NO, YOU NEED A TRUCK!
“The Bloomberg article notes that ever since last year’s reshuffle of Apple’s design team, meetings between the Mac team and the industrial design team have become less frequent,” Dormehl reports. “A similar thing happened with a reorganization of the software engineering department, which no longer separates macOS and iOS — and therefore invests most of its engineers’ time on the more profitable iOS.”
…..And this new structure/orginazation has had the pleasure of producing the below:
i know , i know, i am being redudent … but i just cant help it……
Stupid product decisions… Disconnect from their user.
To name a few..
The Igore battery case
-The stupid round pencils design.. slippery … rolls off.. has no pin to secure on shirt, has no way of saying attached to its companion device.. bogus ridiculous charging solution. plus missing basic functions.. (it draws nice with minimal latency… but as a complete solution is half baked )
-Magic mouse.. incredibly bogus charging solution,
-MacBook pro… battery life is a joke… limited Ram … all soldered components and un-upgradable … on a pro product?
-Touch bar…well nothing amazing or revolutionary … ..just good. I personally think Touche’ , touchbar’s onscreen equivalent to be more productive … (but must admit… the touch bar is a piece of beautiful execution)
-iPad pro…. bogus use of Pro name….. without an IOS PRO no ios product is even remotely close to a pro product. user manageable file sys is a must… full blown application are a must ..not fragmented snippets of apps that make one have to move between 10 apps to complete s simple task. mind u ,all this with no user manageable file sys …its a joke.
-Apple displays.. non existant… one has to flash LG on their desk while using an apple product WHY? …(your solution of sticker noted ..lol )
-Ives clutter free obsession… bogus… its bullshit sales talk……
The only thing this philosophy has done is remove clutter from their device , reduce functionality and transferred all the shit to my desk”s top and carrybag in form of dongles, cables, hubs and external devices . massively off balance
-iPhone… 3 years no form factor change.
-Apple tv.. disaster in os/UI and functionality and design. its the worst thought out product by Apple. A tv that has zero predictability in UI .. each channel is a universe of its own…. no centralization of favorites.. no reminders… very poor discovery …nada… a bogus fragmented experience. and then the remote and its d- ergonomics .
-iTune’s convoluted mess.
-Promoting movies in Apple Music… WTF… music is music , movies are movies…
-Apple music app interface… no landscape mode… why?
-Airpods….. its just absurd that they announced to release it in october..but to this day they have not resolved a most fundamental aspect of it: synchronizing sound between both pods….! … feels like a joke. ……..makes me wonder how far ahead is Apple with their gems(if any ) in their labs and their R&D…. if they are still working on a past product .
-The mysterious place called iCloud. where i am commonly loosing music or photos…or am unable to move things around easily .
-Ditching awesome products.. or washing them down to uselessness.
-IMO the worst/Jurassic spell checker , contextual word/sentence recognition engine(that seems to get worse everyday ) ….pooooor dada analytics – AI engine.. miles and miles behind the competition . . ..
add on top.. supply issues and botched product releases.
the list can go on…. and on…
Apple has become an idiosyncratic Dogmatic entity.. my way or highway … Focused on fashion rather than function. way out of balance ..way !
Worlds most valuable company.. a Fashion company?… no F-ing way…. that is massively shortsighted. Fashion is here today ..gone tomorrow.
Apple has to deliver 110% on all fronts , Zero holes!… for them to justify their Premium.
Or mark my words.. others are standing in line to eat Apple’s breakfast, lunch and dinner….and they are Hungry !
Johnny threatened to leave years ago, which must be the only reason he has so much clout. He’s the reason that the software is looking a mess & other projects have been brushed a side.
FIRE Tim Cook!!!!!
Anyone of us on this board could run the company better given all things the same but without Cook.
Out of touch
One of the big service selling points for ALL Apple products is how they all work seamlessly across the ecosystem of “all your devices” in uniquely integrated ways – but if you have power users going over to Windows, that just leaves phones and iPads (which not everyone has) as “your devices” – ergo all marketing power of that feature disappears, and services like DropBox and Google Photos which are totally cross platform and better (IMO) or at worst nicely adequate than the Apple ecosystem offerings. And often less expensive. I also prefer Google Play music. My 8000 free uploads (20,000 allowed for free) integrate seamlessly with all of their streams – which have new AI “station” surfacing algorithms, etc., etc.
And other messaging platforms as well.
So if they don’t see how people having and using Macs is a necessary linchpin, they’re lost in the digital woods without a compass.
They should at least legalize the Hackintosh (make OS X legal to use on any computer) if they are too lazy to provide yearly upgrades to their pro Macs.
Well for the first time for me, the writing is on the wall. This is an historic time to be reading MDN after 15 years of doing so. This is the first time I’m genuinely concerned about Apple’s future.
Though does Tim see something we don’t see? My heart wants to believe we are operating in a Steve-styled Apple. But data suggests otherwise.
I’m simply a guy who started on the Mac as my first personal computer because i grew up with Apple in school & and though windows was everything through college, once graduated and began grad school, I had heard they were good for my profession. Then, I began to learn the story of Steve and everything, largely from stumbling onto MDN.
Welp, guess I’ll love this new MBP, my 4th laptop in these 16 years.
Will there be a party to celebrate these last 20 years of Apple being good? We should.
Obvious, but I’ll point it out anyway:
1) STUPID of Apple
2) BAD MANAGEMENT
3) Split off the Mac team and give them well-funded autonomy with a specific focus on Mac.
4) Create an inter-exchange team to share tech between the iOS and Mac divisions.
5) Return morale, incentive and positive management to the Mac division.
Otherwise, this STUPID will result in the withering and falling off of a FOUNDATIONAL LIMB of Apple. Please now forgive the stupid and move on to SMART, POSITIVE and CREATIVE again. That’s the Apple way. Gangrene is not.
[Insert nauseating picture of gangrenous limb here.]
Side thought:
This metaphorically reminds me of Type Diabetes. Is Apple suffering from too much sugar/profit, damaging its ability to properly distribute the sugar/profit throughout the company in order to maintain its well being?
And didn’t Steve Jobs die from pancreatic cancer?
Where’s my coffee?
Oh, there’s my coffee. –>TYPE 2 DIABETES.
It’s good to be awake.
Apple: Disappointment after disappointment. People will only take so much before moving on and trying other solutions. And while this is happening, Tim can stare at his fashion iwatch band and wonder, what the hell went wrong.
There is no reason Apple can’t have many divisions working on many projects with many devices on into the future. There’s bad management going on at Apple and I’m now happy to have the buck stop at Tim Cook.
(No, that does not equate to being a Cook-Hater. Binary thinking is for dunderheads as is homophobia).
Funny you say “Where’s my coffee..” I was actually thinking the same thing after my post above… a bit too ominous in tone… I need to be reading something inspirational before getting on this blog 🙂
Yes, Apple, has had many missteps and delays as of late; 100% agree. I also think maybe their focus (and obviously priority) has changed. They have moved to purely a consumer focus, and, are focusing on the most profitable (and the future of computing) iOS. That would be okay if iOS could replace my Mac,
I’ve been a Mac user for many years; Macs became my main machines back in the OS X 10.1 days. This year when my work machine gets refreshed, I hate to say it but I’m probably going Surface Pro 4; and that KILLS me since I MUCH MUCH prefer OS X to Windows. I want a single device that acts like a computer and a tablet, and, has a pen and touch screen. I’d go with an iPad Pro; however, for my type of work, I need to be able to share apps and my screen via WebEx, and, I have some crappy apps I need to demo on occasion that need Java and Flash. I still may end up just refreshing with a MacBook Pro; however, having been using a Surface part time the past 6 months, I have to give credit where credit is due. The Surface Pro 4, is a damn nice machine and Windows 10, is the best Windows I’ve used – that said, it is still Windows, unfortunately.
Here’s hoping Apple, gets a clue sooner than later so I am not suck back in a Windows world.
Does anybody remember Nokia?
The biggest and best mobile phone manufacture at the time. Remember how they listened to their customers and how they used the most cutting edge tech? No… Exactly, and this is why Nokia has gone.
Apple should take note, what they are doing to the company by not listing to their customers has been done before and the companies have not survived.
The day Apple abandons the Mac is the same day I abandon Apple! Linux on the desktop is good enough and has been for some time now.