“The Internet organization Nominet, best known for running the .uk infrastructure, has compiled new research on the dream jobs of today’s students that shows how male students have begun to aspire for careers in technology while female students find the field less interesting,” Anthony Spadafora reports for BetaNews.
“The top three dream jobs of young boys all pertain to the tech industry, with computer game developers being number one, app developers being number two and website developers being number three,” Spadafora reports. “Twenty-four point eight percent of school aged boys would like to develop computer games while 17.2 percent envision themselves developing apps and 15.1 percent hoping to build websites.”
“Young girls on the other hand have very different aspirations with the top dream job being that of a fashion designer at 13 percent. This is followed by graphic designer at 12.9 percent, teacher at 12.8 percent, computer game developer at 12.3 percent and entrepreneur at 11.5 percent,” Spadafora reports. “Nominet’s research found that 41 percent of young women find jobs in IT boring, 35 percent find them too technical, 28 percent find them too hard and 16 percent find IT jobs too male-dominated.”
Read more in the full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Every student in every school should have the opportunity to learn computer science to see if they’d like to pursue it or not.
Kids and parents, check out what code.org offers today!
SEE ALSO:
Apple turns retail stores into coding classrooms – December 7, 2015
Hour of Code: Apple offers free one-hour coding classes at retail stores on December 11 – December 9, 2013
I hope people realize that this is ONE key reason for the pay differential between men and woman. Bottom line is that graduates with liberal arts degrees (majority woman) make significantly less money then graduates with engineering and science degrees (majority men).
Actually, that is not correct.
When we talk about pay gap, that means same job, same title, same seniority. Women earn 80¢ for every $1 that a man does for exact same work, with exact same education and length of career. Doesn’t matter whether they are in engineering, health, law, academia, accounting, fashion design, performing arts. Even in the fields where women are traditionally (and stereotypically) much more prevalent (and logic would dictate, provide larger pool of better candidates) men still get paid better. Male dancers in ballet theatre; male fashion designers; male teachers; male fashion editors. Even in the fields where no self-respecting straight man would be caught dead, the few men that do go, still average better pay than equally qualified women.
And this is not just in America; this is in almost every developed country (and in the developing world, it is even worse).
Absolutely incorrect. In the U.S., when all factors are identical, the salary difference is only a few cents per dollar.
And, overall, fewer women choose STEM jobs, women work fewer hours, women work less dangerous jobs and many women choose to stay at home. This is what gives you the 80¢ per dollar figure.
Absolutely incorrect. Studies show that, when all other factors are identical, women are consistently discriminated against, and are paid less than men. Not just the US, but other developed nations. I’m not even looking at the poorer countries (as I said, in some, women aren’t even allowed to work, or vote).
As for choices regarding STEM jobs, or regarding fewer working hours, that certainly is true, but evidence shows that one of the major reasons for that is that girls are discouraged at early age to pursue STEM careers, and are conditioned to expect to spend more of their time with their offspring (while no man will ever be expected to cut his working hours upon becoming a father).
I call troll alert: no intelligent person would write the things that “predrag” is writing.
My question is what is it that motivates trolls–any attention is a good thing?
I think it should be SJW alert or feminist alert.
But you are 100% right ” no intelligent person would write the things that “predrag” is writing.”
I have yet to hear evidence-based argument that will refute what I said above.
What I hear so far is “troll alert”. Not much evidence or data there…
What about men with liberal arts degrees versus women that have science degrees? Even in that case the men still make more than women. I mean it’s a good story if you want to believe it, even more so if you’ve not been blessed to know or work with any highly intelligent women with science degrees.
It would be helpful if you could provide some actual contemporary evidence of this.
Shocking, men and women are different.
No no no! Men and women are EXACTLY the same. Same interests, goals, outlook, capability, reasoning abilities, etc. etc., etc.. Identical in nearly every way. So sayeth the hard core libs (and they wouldn’t lie about a thing like that).
Yes, they really are, at birth. And then we, the adults, begin to interfere, and make sure girls grow up to be bimbos, and boys grow up to be smart, strong and brave.
Anyone with half a brain can see by now that we have women in literally every profession known to humanity, and enough of them throughout history proved that they are every bit as worth as men.
Unfortunately, we can’t expect them to aspire to become engineers, when half of the world still doesn’t allow girls to even go to school, and even in the developed places, such as America, there are competitions that rate girls based on their beauty (let’s not kid ourselves, those questions are simply to placate the most radical feminists; everyone is still just waiting for the swimsuit part of the contests). And those beauty contests start practically at birth.
The die is cast by the time we’re born except for a select few who later identify with the opposite sex for whatever reason or accident of genetics. Of course there’s a certain number of things both sexes are equally capable, but truth to tell I’m terrible at having babies. 🙂
Women are objects of desire instinctively by men. No amount of legislation or enlightenment will ever change that, until we evolve. You can cast the veneer of civilization on it to maintain order but it will never change basic human instinct or attraction, and men are more naturally attracted to a more healthier looking woman by subconscious desirable mate desires. Basic biology does that to us. We all have our “Pon Farr” to deal with.
So that explains everything, you are an accident of genetics.
You’re the reason aberrant behavior mental wards were created. It must be so lonely being a lifelong big mouthed pariah. Misery loves company but it’s the only company you have.
I don’t accept unsolicited advice from accidents of genetics.
That’s good then you’ll not be taking advice from yourself, the leading accident of horrific mutation.
How’s your mom? Please tell her my dick no longer burns when I piss.
Must be a terrible thing dealing with a stunted adolescence & dealing with your own appendage shortcomings. And suffering from late onset arrival of pubes, adult maturity and sensibilities. Enjoy your adolescence while you can! You’re certainly been reveling in it here.
My wife and I raised two wonderful daughters. One has a degree in Mathematics with minors in Computer Science and French (yes, we are Canadian) and the other has a degree in Art History and a diploma in Fine Arts.
Girls and boys should be allowed to choose any career path they desire and aspire to be the best they can in that endeavour.
At the same time, I believe that the male brain and the female brain are quite different and fairly consistently so (barring a number of exceptions, of course). In general women are collectively quite similar in their thinking as are men. This is not a problem. As the french say, “Vive la différence!”
Having said all that, I firmly believe that two people doing objectively the same work deserve the same pay, regardless of race, gender, or age.
As a father of two daughters myself (not yet ready for college), I completely agree with everything you said (and I kept saying the same things elsewhere).
with mindful respect for all the differences, same work deserves same pay, and today, we still fall short of that.
That is because we teach little girls to be pretty, while we teach little boys to play with construction toys, weapons, sports.
It starts from the earliest age: men and women of all ages have no problem telling a little girl “Oh, you are so pretty!”; meanwhile, most of them would never say that to a boy of same age. Girls are conditioned, from birth, to aspire to be pretty, while boys are to be strong, courageous, smart.
If we are to close the pay gap, we have to eliminate stereotypes. And good luck with that…
bull.
…er, cow.
Exactly. We train girls to think in very different terms than boys, and usually in ways that favor boys.
Now sure there are some biological differences in the way female and male look at the world, but much is also learned from the environment one grows up in.
We know women are as capable as men, it’s just a matter of giving them a fair playing field.
I can tell that you don’t have kids. If you did, you would see first hand that boys are instinctively different than girls.
“Different” does not mean “inequality is fine”. It’s a handful of decades since women weren’t even persons under the law. Anyone who thinks that discrimination has all been removed from society just ain’t looking.
Let me know when there’s a Linda Da Vinci or a Tonia Edison, Cocoa Boy.
Ironically, more people know about Mona Lisa than Leonardo, about Venus on a seashell rather than Botticelli, about Whistler’s Mother than Whistler. It would seem fame favours the Muse over the artist, at least in the public eye.
Men definitely were the driving inventive force of the industrial revolution. During that period, women had a subservient social role. They were not mute, however, and by the mid twentieth century women had infiltrated male engineering culture.
Even if you dismiss my prideful assertions about my sex, I know you will admit we have our uses.
I hoped I’d get a response from you regarding that comment…there is no level of Chauvinism that I will not stoop if only for brief but guarded attention from you.
Surely you know I watch your adventures from afar, and admire your unmatched élan.
Perhaps the two of you should get a room…
I remain your humble servant.
How about Marie Curie?
Had you read her biography, written by her daughter Eva, you would know that Marie attributed any of her knowledge and success in the science to her beloved husband, the genius, Pierre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_scientists_before_the_20th_century
Then it’s the mothers fault, because their the ones that keep spouting off the your so pretty stuff. Right?
You’re lying Predrag. You offer no evidence, just made-up fantasies about how you want the world to be. Delusional.
I’m not sure where you live, Nick, and what kind of people surround you, but just a little bit of googling would reveal plenty of studies that confirm what I had said.
I never said what I want or don’t want the world to be. What I said is what the world is like today. And even in the most developed world, girls are at a serious disadvantage for no reason other than the fact that they are girls.
Yes, we are biologically different, and there may be certain tasks at which girls, due to that biological and physiological difference (as well as their ultimate roles as mothers to the offspring) may be better at than boys (and vice versa), but the fact remains that where women and men have same skill set, same ambition, same experience, men are paid better, promoted sooner and more often, and praised more than women.
And no amount of your personal opinion about that will change that fact.
Thanks for your contributions to the gender discussion. They may help. You haven’t mentioned cognitive differences between the sexes, revealed over the last twenty years by extensive research in neuroscience. Apparently, we think differently, and apparently, that may be a good thing, not merely a mildly interesting thing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrAtRest/comments/3gwcno/milo_yiannopoulos_debunks_the_wage_gap_myth_in/?
Do you consider yourself an SJW?
Not necessarily. In that video, we have, on the one side, a hardheaded conservative, as backwards as they come, who, granted, sounds awfully convincing, with his argument that pay gap does not exist. He quotes his source, who happens to be a woman (major point scored there), but comes form an ultra-conservative angle, which brings serious questions about the sincerity of her argument, which can easily be corroborated by looking at her sources. A very limited study have been done on wage gape among professionals, and without careful control of various variables, the study concluded that for same work, men and women are paid the same. This particular study seems to be the go-to document for all those who don’t want to bother making an effort to sort out this problem.
Numerous more rigorous studies have been done, in America, Germany, UK and other EU countries, that clearly show that for exactly the same kind of work, women get paid lower hourly wages (or get paid less than men, where pay is monthly).
The principal problem is inherent bias, more than anything else. Addressing this bias will actually improve productivity, since it would allow companies to hire better workers (replace those highly-paid men with lower-paid women, for example, or motivate better-qualified women by offering same pay).
As it is, by discriminating against any group (women, gays, minority of any kind), companies are chasing away good or better talent.
I played cars and Lego and sports with my two girls, but hey kept insisting on playing Barbies and Polly Pockets as well.
Mine as well. They see it from their peers. There is really no point of isolating them from the rest of the society in order to right a historical wrong.
And of course, there is always that cognitive difference, which motivates girls to pursue different fields than boys.
The essence of the problem is not giving them equal opportunities. Rich countries have been working on this problem for some time now, and are seeing the results, but we still can’t say that we truly have an equal and fair treatment.
boys find it boring too..
– a boy
Many boys do.
The war on men and war on gender folks refuse to believe there is any difference between genders, but men and women are not the same.
No one is better or worse but we are different. IT work is a great example. It’s often VERY boring, isolated, and not social. There are meetings, but the vast majority of your time you are at your desk, doing your thing, coding, scripting, or whatever.
Women are generally much more social than men. The solitary nature of IT work is unappealing. I’ve known several smart women in IT. Great coders, great network people, etc., but they’ve been, well, not like other women. They’re quiet, introverted, very cerebral.
Take a look at fields like public relations. Far more women go into public relations than engineering or computer science.
Nature is a very powerful force and no amount of silly legislation is going to make millions of years of evolution vanish.
Nah, there’s a lot of social to it. Folks move from one job to the next based on whether they’re a “fit” for a team and a lot of the time, that “fit” is based a lot on what sports team you favor, what you have in common with your kids/family, what you like to do outside work… Etc. The Agile development process even puts forth the social aspect as a way to increase the performance of your team. A LOT of IT is already there and those that aren’t are headed that way.
So, I can’t really buy that IT isn’t social. NOW, it COULD be that women in IT aren’t interested in the same things as the men and, if you’re going to promote someone that will work closer with you, you’d rather it be someone who shares your interests. I’d buy that well before the idea that everyone comes to work, sits for a few hours then leave with no social interaction.
How much of this preference difference is due to culture as opposed to ability and potential interest?
“Men have a 15% larger frontal lobe, the frontal lobe is the seat of reason and logic. Women have a vagina, this often instantly negates the male advantage of a larger frontal lobe.”
“Understanding The Sexes”
by Dr. Vinnie Boom-Batz
“If you believe that gender affects behavior, a lot of research supports you.” — Laura Willard in Pregnancy & Baby
Only a couple of weeks ago a I heard a minority woman engineer nearing retirement speak at a professional meeting. She observed that, while she had often personally encouraged young women to consider engineering as a career, they typically continue to be more interested in careers in which they can make a more direct social contribution. She herself, along with engineering educators that she respected, did not expect there would ever be gender parity in engineering, and she was fine with that.
By all means, let’s have equal opportunity, equal pay for equal work, and workplaces free from bias. Can’t we also be comfortable with the enduring observation that men and women think in ways that tend to attract them to vocations that are different, complementary and important to society?
Christina Hoff Sommers is a beacon of rationality in a sea of absurdity.
I think most girls like to get bored, though some men probably like it too.
I’m never bored overhearing men sharing opinions about anything, paticularly sex and gender. It’s an entertaining form of social engagement, one better known as “gossip.” Although when men do it they tend to call it “telling it like it is.” 🍀
I’ve heard of gossiping about people.
I’ve never heard of gossiping about a topic.
Nice try though.
So if the topic is people, conversations about the topic don’t count as gossip. Got it. I’ll call that “second-order gossip” next time to avoid confusion.
Gossip:
n.
“casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details which are not confirmed as true.
“he became the subject of much local gossip”
” a person who often talks about the private details of other people’s lives”
synonyms: tittle-tattle, tattle, rumour(s), whispers, stories, tales, canards, titbits; More”
Again, I’ve never heard of people gossiping about the supposed gender wage gap, or the biological/social distinctions between men and women.
Or was your original comment meant to suggest that men, by virtue of their gender, can’t possibly know anything about the opposite sex or relationships? That we’re biologically predetermined to be ignorant of such things?
Nah. Can’t be. I mean, that would be so chauvinist of you!
I meant to suggest that men are as social as women, are as interested in the fine points of interpersonal relationships as women, not excluding their salacious aspects, and are as eager to talk amongst themselves the way women do when they talk about other peoples’ behaviour; — thus, dramatising a common stereotype.
In other words, I meant to demonstrate the mental and behavioural equivalence of the sexes without the usual linguistic and chauvinistic differentiation. If that was lost on you, I apologise for the lack of clarity and will, later, try a different approach to the sex question — one that is less jarring than poking a stick in your bicycle spokes.
Talk about a joke that needs help. I’ll get to that in a moment but first Wil.
“I’ve never heard of gossiping about a topic.” I find it astonishing that you come here and make that sort of comment. This site is full of gossip about what Apple will release next. Sports, fashion, news, places and cars are common topics of gossip. You’ve never heard about anyone tell about the marvels of what they saw on their last vacation. I’ve heard of some great spots on the planet to visit, and so I’ve visited them. I know I’ve shared conversations into gender wage gap topics and the biological/social distinctions between men and women so even though you may not have heard about it, it does happen.
Now Herself, I got the topic wrong I guess. I’m not very familiar with boredom, possibly because “boredom is in the eye of the beholder” in my opinion.
Have a great weekend.
OK you nailed me. I went back and re-read your comment and it was a brilliant joke that in my condition of terminal seriousness, I had missed the first time round. Road Warrior 1, Herself 0
Now now, don’t underestimate yourself you scored a few points with me. Calling me out for that list of civilized countries last weekend and that rearrangement of my tie that’s counts big time for me.
Plus that delicious peace of icelandic delight upon flesh was ecstatic. I’m glad you are asserting your right to bare arms.
And when you do become an IT, they don’t pay you the same as the other guy, even when you’re in charge of 3x the workstations he is.
If yours are Macs and his are PCs it’s almost worth it